November 06, 2009
OBAMA DEATHCARE OR PRISON!

What's next? Re-education concentration camps?

JAIL TIME

Posted by LeCerveau at November 06, 2009 12:18 PM | Email This
Comments
1. harvard alum bill mckibben will be your warden!

but i'm guessing for you it would be an 'education' camp, you know, since you've obviously struggled with facts and reality your entire life.

Posted by: mike on November 7, 2009 01:06 PM
2. btw, failing to pay taxes comes w/ a fine or imprisonment. don't believe me, check w/ the IRS.

this is absolutely nothing new.

Posted by: mike on November 7, 2009 01:14 PM
3. And did any of you notice? Obama today says "tens of millions are without healthcare". It's the newest lie these people are using to push a the most massive government entitlement program in history on us. Socialism is everything to these folks. They are going to ram it down our throats.

Posted by: Bill Cruchon on November 7, 2009 04:34 PM
4. It would not annoy me if you could simply have a political discussion with leftists. I've tried that more than once.

You end up realizing that they are horrible lying people such as Obama. Where did that "tens of millions without healthcare" garbage come from? Democrats made it up. They are truly awful people.

Posted by: Bill Cruchon on November 7, 2009 04:44 PM
5. @3-4: It would not annoy me if you could simply have a political discussion with leftists. I've tried that more than once.

Bull. You're nothing but a vortex of bitter vitriol, and pretty blind to the realities of the world. Only awful, pathetic person around here is you.

And you're definitely not interested in a political discussion, either! You're just whinging and playing the victim here, over and over and over again.

So... are there ANY problems in your mind that cannot be connected to liberals? Maybe your favorite contestant was voted off American Idol because of liberals, Bill?

Posted by: demo kid on November 7, 2009 06:29 PM
6. boy, so how about that NY-23 election? guess the realities of losing another house seat are finally settling in.

elections have consequences.

clowns.

Posted by: mike on November 7, 2009 07:35 PM
7. Love it when leftists such as demo kid lose it. They are simply demonstrating what kind of individuals they are.

They always show themselves for who they are eventually.

And some remedial English might be in order as well!

Posted by: Bill Cruchon on November 7, 2009 07:50 PM
8. Love it when leftists such as demo kid lose it. They are simply demonstrating what kind of individuals they are.

They always show themselves for who they are eventually.

And some remedial English might be in order as well!

Posted by: Bill Cruchon on November 7, 2009 07:50 PM
9. Love it when leftists such as demo kid lose it. They are simply demonstrating what kind of individuals they are.

They always show themselves for who they are eventually.

And some remedial English might be in order as well!

Posted by: Bill Cruchon on November 7, 2009 07:50 PM
10. apologize for the multiple posts not used to this new computer yet!

Posted by: bill Cruchon on November 7, 2009 07:53 PM
11. or the more likely possibility - you're just a flippin idiot.

Posted by: mik on November 7, 2009 08:22 PM
12. Gotta love you people. You simply can't resist making a nasty personal comment. It's who you liberals are, very nasty hate filled people. You can see it in every comment you make. You can see it in every liberal blog. Go look at horsesass.org or any other liberal site. It's filled with vile, obscene commentary. Does it not inform a person what sort of people populate the modern left? It sure should!

Posted by: Bill Cruchon on November 7, 2009 08:37 PM
13. Mike wrote:

btw, failing to pay taxes comes w/ a fine or imprisonment. don't believe me, check w/ the IRS.

Really? Can you cite the IRS regulation about that? Because the reality is that there is a fine but NOT imprisonment for not paying your own taxes. Only if you fail to pay withholding or excise taxes collected for others (employees) is there a chance of imprisonment.

This new law is a GREAT expansion of the imprisonment penalty that the IRS has; right now it's mainly tax evasion and willful non-payment of withholding taxes. Refusing to pay your own personal taxes will get you smacked with penalties and interest but that's it - no prison time.

Sorry Mike, you're all wrong - again...

Slavery Party Failed Abortion wrote:

So... are there ANY problems in your mind that cannot be connected to liberals?

Let me check... Umm, nope. None at all! You liberals are the root of all evil...

Posted by: Shanghai Dan on November 7, 2009 09:11 PM
14. @12: Pfft. I love the constant double standard, the inability to take blame, the narrow-mindedness... not to mention the fact that obscene comments don't seem to be the domain of liberals here.

@13: Can you cite the IRS regulation about that? Because the reality is that there is a fine but NOT imprisonment for not paying your own taxes.

I'd ask you to stop lying, but I think it's habitual. Note that The Joint Committee on Taxation memo put out by the Republicans makes SPECIFIC reference to civil AND criminal penalties, including imprisonment. In 2008, fewer than 500 people were sentenced and incarcerated... it's rare, but it does happen. This would be absolutely no different.

Let me check... Umm, nope. None at all! You liberals are the root of all evil...

Unlike you, I can actually appreciate both conservative and liberal viewpoints. Not, of course, the wingnut crazy fundamentalism that passes for "conservatism" here...

Posted by: demo kid on November 8, 2009 08:40 AM
15. demo kid says, "Unlike you, I can actually appreciate both conservative and liberal viewpoints"

I was a leftist for a long time. Trust me, they don't appreciate any viewpoint other than their own.

If demo kid can name one single time he's agreed with a conservative opinion on this blog I'll happily give him credit. Bet he can"t!

Posted by: Bill Cruchon on November 8, 2009 10:40 AM
16. @15: I was a leftist for a long time. Trust me, they don't appreciate any viewpoint other than their own.

Ha ha ha! That's a good one! You're far more crotchety now, but at least you haven't changed in one respect.

If demo kid can name one single time he's agreed with a conservative opinion on this blog I'll happily give him credit. Bet he can"t!

I remember a post about "Earth Hour" where I commented that it was silly and pointless, I voted no on the Seattle housing levy, and I don't favor state control of liquor stores. For a partial mark... I also don't support elective abortions after the first trimester.

I'll patiently await the credit due.

Posted by: demo kid on November 8, 2009 01:34 PM
17. Happily giving you credit demo kid.

Posted by: bill Cruchon on November 8, 2009 03:44 PM
18. Slavery Party Failed Abortion wrote:

I'd ask you to stop lying, but I think it's habitual.

The usual Marxist approach; accuse your opponent of the very thing you are guilty of!

Note that The Joint Committee on Taxation memo put out by the Republicans makes SPECIFIC reference to civil AND criminal penalties, including imprisonment.

Did you READ the memo and follow the posts? Those imprisonment sentences were NOT for willfully failing to pay taxes; they were for fraud (false 1040s), failing to file your 1040, or for failing to pay withholding taxes (taxes you collected on behalf of others).

See, if you could actually read above a 2nd grade level, you would understand the distinction made above; this abomination of a health insurance bill now CRIMINALIZES the non-payment of income taxes, something that it never was before. You would accumulate penalties and interest (as I posted above), but could not go to jail.

Additionally, you would know that - by statute - IRS penalties are limited to no more than 25% of the tax outstanding, yet the evil that is HR 3962 expands that 75% exclusive of interest, meaning failure to pay - either accidentally or willfully - can result in a doubling of the taxes due in literally a few months.

So, when you realize the errors of your ways, you can apologize for your charge and we can continue discussing the gross expansion of Federal imprisonment laws to areas never before considered prison-worthy. All in the name of helping people (well, I guess at least in prison you'll get free medical!).

Posted by: Shanghai Dan on November 8, 2009 04:25 PM
19. @18: What?

Section 7201 of the Internal Revenue Code criminalizes "willful" attempts to "evade or defeat" taxes as a felony, carrying a penalty of up to five years in prison. People who willfully do not pay taxes of any kind can be convicted of a misdemeanor, leading to up to a year in jail.

Under the healthcare bill? Show me one single place that mentions adding any criminal penalties. Not paying this tax is treated exactly like not paying any of your other taxes, in fact. It does not change that element of the tax code.

Likewise, the 75% penalty that you refer to is, in fact, in the actual tax code. Check out Section 6663 of the Internal Revenue Code. This is not new, and is meant for willful nonpayment that can be proven with "clear and convincing evidence".

That was the point of the JCT memo, in fact! There was a mention of a tax, but no actual penalties in the bill itself. This was issued to describe how existing law would apply to it.

So I'll amend my earlier statement: either you're a liar, or you're an idiot that didn't actually read the memo yourself. Which one is it?

Posted by: demo kid on November 8, 2009 05:43 PM
20. @17: Accepted... and waiting for the day that I can return that. (Might be waiting for a while, eh? :) )

Posted by: demo kid on November 8, 2009 05:46 PM
21. Slavery Party Failed Abortion,

Tax evasion or fraud can get you sent to prison; willful refusal to pay your reported taxes will NOT land you in prison.

Can I make it any more clear for you?

This health care bill now makes the willful refusal to pay taxes a crime that carries imprisonment. Do you support expanding the powers of the Federal Government to arrest and incarcerate people?

So I'll amend my earlier statement: either you're a liar, or you're an idiot that didn't actually read the memo yourself. Which one is it?

Projection gets you nowhere...

Posted by: Shanghai Dan on November 8, 2009 07:28 PM
22. @21: I'm not arguing this point further if you're just going to spew false information. The EXISTING tax code provides for these penalties, not the new legislation, and the SAME rules apply for ALL taxes. Heck, I even pointed the relevant passages from the Internal Revenue Code for you!

Stop shooting your damn fool mouth off if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Posted by: demo kid on November 8, 2009 08:03 PM
23. Slavery Party Failed Abortion wrote:

I'm not arguing this point further if you're just going to spew false information.

Well, you're the one spewing false information, so you might as well just admit your error and leave, SPFA.

Please see 6663 and 7201; the former deals with TAX FRAUD. The latter deals with TAX EVASION. Neither deal with failure to pay taxes (willfully or negligently). So once again, we learn that SPFA is WRONG.

he EXISTING tax code provides for these penalties, not the new legislation, and the SAME rules apply for ALL taxes.

Not for failing to pay. HR 3962 now adds imprisonment and much higher fines for refusing to pay taxes. That's the fact, and your arrogance and/or ignorance won't change it.

Stop shooting your damn fool mouth off if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Shouting at the man in the mirror again, SPFA? If you would have actually read the sections of the IRS code you referenced you would have seen the errors of your statement and slunk off away, only to be thought (once again) a fool.

But no, you were true to form and removed all doubt about the low aptitude within your skull, moron!

Posted by: Shanghai Dan on November 9, 2009 01:39 AM
24. @23: Ugh. There's little point arguing with a liar, but here goes.

Please see 6663 and 7201; the former deals with TAX FRAUD. The latter deals with TAX EVASION. Neither deal with failure to pay taxes (willfully or negligently). So once again, we learn that SPFA is WRONG.

Section 7203 deals with a misdemeanor "willful failure to pay", which DOES carry one year of jail time. Look it up.

HR 3962 now adds imprisonment and much higher fines for refusing to pay taxes. That's the fact, and your arrogance and/or ignorance won't change it.

Then I would encourage you to point out the passage in the bill that does so. The JCT memo describes EXISTING penalties for nonpayment of taxes, because those are the only ones that apply! In fact, other than the $1,900 fine, there are no substantive penalties added in this bill specifically for nonpayment.

Face it... conservatives like you have resorted to out-and-out lying about this bill to get it through. Typical.

Posted by: demo kid on November 9, 2009 06:35 AM
25. Ooops.. that should read "to defeat it" rather than "to get it through".

Posted by: demo kid on November 9, 2009 06:37 AM
26. Seriously, SPFA, just give up. You're showing even MORE ignorance, for section 7203 DEALS WITH TAX FRAUD, and issues related to tax fraud. It does NOT deal with just willful non-payment of taxes.

Seriously, give it up, you're looking more and more like the mouth-breathing knuckle-dragger you probably are.

Proven wrong so many times here, all because of your pet ego and slavish devotion to some political party. You regurgitate the lies you're fed, and even when SHOWN their lies, you continue on in your babbling.

Bluntly: you're a dolt. Give up.

Posted by: Shanghai Dan on November 9, 2009 06:30 PM
27. @26: You're the only damned liar here. Let me QUOTE THE LAW:

Sec. 7203. Willful failure to file return, supply information, or pay tax

Any person required under this title to pay any estimated tax or tax, or required by this title or by regulations made under authority thereof to make a return, keep any records, or supply any information, who willfully fails to pay such estimated tax or tax, make such return, keep such records, or supply such information, at the time or times required by law or regulations, shall, in addition to other penalties provided by law, be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $25,000 ($100,000 in the case of a corporation), or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both, together with the costs of prosecution. In the case of any person with respect to whom there is a failure to pay any estimated tax, this section shall not apply to such person with respect to such failure if there is no addition to tax under section 6654 or 6655 with respect to such failure. In the case of a willful violation of any provision of section 6050I, the first sentence of this section shall be applied by substituting ``felony'' for ``misdemeanor'' and ``5 years'' for ``1 year''.

Alright... I've said that the new law doesn't change the penalties for nonpayment of taxes, and I've proven what I've said. Seems like you're the only fool that "regurgitates the lies you're fed, and even when SHOWN their lies, you continue on in your babbling".

Posted by: demo kid on November 9, 2009 08:03 PM
28. Man, you are dense...

Go and read about how the IRS is directed to apply that section that has your panties in a bind. It's for CRIMINAL FRAUD ONLY! You really are out of it, aren't you...

There's rules and regulations and ACTUAL IRS PUBLICATIONS directing how that regulation you cite is used; it's ONLY used in criminal fraud cases only, which - by statute - doesn't cover refusal to pay taxes due.

Oh well, believe what you want, you've shown a great propensity to do so before, you will continue because, after all, it's about you and your fellow slavers stealing from those you hate so you can have your own baubles...

Slavers like you always love to claim the high moral ground; of course, your own relativism means you cannot have any moral high ground. But as long as it makes you "feel good" that's all that matters, huh you little whining, sniveling thief?

Posted by: Shanghai Dan on November 9, 2009 09:48 PM
29. @28: Go and read about how the IRS is directed to apply that section that has your panties in a bind. It's for CRIMINAL FRAUD ONLY! You really are out of it, aren't you...

Criminal fraud? Yes! Absolutely! But you haven't made your case as to why the taxes in this healthcare bill would be treated ANY differently. They are BOTH covered under the SAME statute! Absolutely nothing has changed.

Likewise, the statute clearly states that willful nonpayment is a misdemeanor, punishable by one year in prison. I highlighted the distinct passage, and while the regulations you point to may codify exactly how that law is applied, there is NO evidence you have shown that the healthcare penalty would be treated ANY differently.

So repeatedly, you have asserted your case without evidence, while I have actually pointed out the law. You start blabbering about "slavers" like the prick you are, while I'm the one that's showing you the truth.

Just go away, slimeball. If you still try to lie while I'm showing you the ACTUAL STATUTE, it's pointless... you're just going to stick to your own self-delusion no matter what.

Posted by: demo kid on November 10, 2009 08:09 AM
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