1. Because after George Washington read Marx and Engels, he spoke out specifically against Marxism / communism / socialism, right?

It's like some conservatives and libertarians are intentionally ignorant. As the Founding Fathers understood the "political spectrum", you were either pro-monarchist or pro-republican; the nature of "left" versus "right" was defined by support of the king. (There's a reason why we define ourselves as a "liberal democracy".) Current political divisions in the U.S. have more to do with the differences between the ideas of Madison and Hamilton than anarchy versus communism.

I always love it too when conservatives place "Naziism" (sic), "communism", and "socialism" in the same grouping on the left-right spectrum. The left-right spectrum has nothing to do with the level of government control, only who holds the power in the government and society, and how that power is used.

Posted by: demo kid on June 12, 2009 10:12 AM

2. The left-right spectrum has everything to do with level of government control. The problem is that the left, i.e. those who want more gov't control, are unpopular and continuously must re-invent themselves.

One decade they are 'socialists,' the next 'progressives,' the next 'liberals,' then after that they are 'big-government conservatives' (aka W Bush & co).

I predict that yet another label will emerge in the not-too-distant future. It happens every couple decades or so like clockwork, and is inevitable.

Posted by: travis t on June 13, 2009 12:45 PM

3. Mr. Travis:
Aren't you aware the great conservative leader Winston Churchill was in the liberal party, too?

And that like Teddy Roosevelt, he said you use an individualist solution, or a collectivist solution, according to which one works in the particular context?

Where is this fantasy land of no-government? Somalia??

Posted by: Torture Lawyer on June 13, 2009 04:43 PM

4. This animation is pretty dumb -- it ignores democracy.

When you have democracy, whatever level of government there is is a level chosen by the people.

So basically they're okay with it.

Having more government if the people want it isn't right wing in the way that monarchy is and it isn't left wing in the way that nondemocratic totalitarianism is.

Ditto, for less.

You need two axes at least.

Democratic versus not, and then say, you could use govt. as % of GDP.

The error of the right wing types is they contantly equate social democrats (France, say, referring to its basic system not the current party in charge) with nazis or communists who don't let the people vote. Whereas when the social democrats are in power then power can return to the conservatives if the people vote that way.

This seems really basic, and kind of incredible that the right wing types could forget this. You almost have to conclude they're just dishonest or extremely ignorant.

Sorry. but suggesting a 50% govt. economy with full democracy is "next to" Naziism or communism (100% govt. economy, no democracy) -- well it's just wrong. As in if you put that in a paper in college, you'd get an F.

You're ignoring democracy! How could you do that and still think you've learned what it is to be an American?

Posted by: Torture Lawyer on June 13, 2009 04:53 PM

5. Democracy is no panacea, unfortunately. What happens if the 90 pct+ heterosexual population votes to kill all the homosexuals? Then all the gays get to die, but it must be ok since we voted for it, right?

What happens if 50 percent +1 decide to make slaves out of 50 percent -1? I guess that level of gov't would be fine too, since we voted for it.

Posted by: travis t on June 13, 2009 05:53 PM

6. The argument of this post and the graphic is that the Founding Fathers understood government in a particular left versus right dynamic that just didn't exist. In the 18th century, a liberal republic was "left", while a monarchy was "right".

Current left-versus-right political dynamics, however, were present even amongst the founding fathers... compare Hamilton's perspective on government to that of Madison.

Posted by: demo kid on June 13, 2009 11:04 PM

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