There seems to be an awful lot of confusion, or propaganda, these days as to what a true Conservative actually believes. Hang tight - to answer this, we'll have to get into some ideology..
We're all "ideological" at our cores because it shapes us as individual human beings - it's how we tell right from wrong, it guides our thoughts and actions, and ultimately it informs our decision-making for which political policies we will support, and for whom we'll actually vote.
Since political endeavors are more successful the more agreement and common understanding that we can achieve, it is useful, at least, to examine the differences between modern Conservatism and Liberalism.
The following are key differences between these two competing ideologies:
I. Conservatives believe in the primacy of individual freedom and liberty - whereas Liberals see this as inherently dangerous. Liberals believe in the virtues of group grievance politics over personal freedom.
II. Conservatives believe that the resources on this planet are for our use. Liberals believe that Mother Earth is a sacred deity, and that ultimately, humans only pose a threat to it.
III. Conservatives believe that more government always means more coercion, and that more coercion always means less freedom. Liberals believe that wielding massive governmental power, by the hands of Liberals, can only bring goodness and harmony to the cosmos.
IV. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility and seek to be rewarded by meritorious efforts in a free marketplace. Liberals believe that weakness and victimhood are virtues to be exalted, exploited, and rewarded, and that collective power over successful individuals is the way to even the score.
V. Conservatives believe that peace among humans must be achieved, maintained, and safeguarded. Liberals believe that the weaker one becomes, that justice and peace just break out, and spread naturally - contrary to all of human history.
VI. Conservatives believe that life is not a "zero-sum game", but a "win-win" for all. Liberals believe that if someone succeeds, that someone else therefore suffers.
VII. Conservatives believe that our sacred Rights are inherent as humans (endowed by our Creator), and are therefore, inalienable to the efforts of man. Liberals believe that all of our Rights are granted to us, and may be taken away, by really smart, well-intentioned, and benevolent Liberals in government.
VIII. Conservatives believe that humans are each endowed by their Creator with varying talents and differences, and that basic human nature is immutable. Liberals faithfully believe that through scientific manipulation, wishful thinking, and fascistic coercion that government can force human nature to change, and therefore, that they can achieve an ever-elusive nirvana called "equality" among us.
IX. Conservatives hold that innocent human life is precious, and at all times it should be cherished and protected. Liberals believe that some human lives are a lot more important than others, and seek to punish the successful or exterminate the least powerful among us in order to free up more resources for redistribution by Liberals - for the common "good" of the Earth of course.
X. Conservatives believe that racism is an abomination in all forms. Liberals believe that selective racism is a wonderful practice if it achieves their goals.
XI. Conservatives believe that some people, organizations, civilizations, cultures, or practices are better than others, judging by their merits - by what they actually achieve. Liberals measure success by how well they emotionally feel about things, and that being beholden to objective, truthful judgments is an ongoing plot by Conservatives to be unfair, cruel, or threatening.
XII. Conservatives believe that blind devotion to invented concepts such as the perversions of forced "diversity", "tolerance", "equality", etc. are fraudulent at best. Liberals believe that faithful pursuance of unproven, unachievable fabricated social concepts represents the new path to human enlightenment - even when factually proven to be greatly destructive to huge number of individuals.
Whaddya think - Are you a Conservative?
~Jefferson Paine
1. Conservatives are held to standards of personal behavior - Liberals are not
2. Conservatives are held to standards of performance - Liberals are not
3. Conservatives are held to a standard requiring truth - Liberals are not
4. Conservatives are held to standards requiring facts - Liberals are not
5. Conservatives are attacked by the old media - Liberals are defended by it
6. Conservatives believe in fiscal responsibility - Liberals believe in growing government at the expense of the future
7. Conservatives believe government programs must work to exist - Liberals believe government exists to create more programs
8. Conservatives support democracy around the world - Liberals "apparently" do not
9. Conservatives condemn corruption within their own ranks - Liberals do not
10. Conservatives believe in the advancement of personal achievement and excellence - Liberals believe in the suppression of individual achievement and excellence
11. Conservatives work to make people independent of government support - Liberals work to increase the number of Americans dependent on the government
12. Conservatives work to improve the quality of life of others - Liberals work to feel good controlling the quality of life of others
13. Conservatives believe in school choice - Liberals fight it to support a failed public education system and its unions
14. Conservatives believe in the sanctity of life - Liberals support unlimited rights to abortion and voluntary suicide
15. Conservatives support the market system - Liberals want the government to control all industry
16. Conservatives believe in peace through military strength - Liberals believe in peace through appeasement and the destruction of our national defense
17. Conservatives believe terrorists should be denied the rights of US citizens - Liberals would grant them citizenship to get their votes
18. Conservatives believe in color-blindness - Liberals refuse to abandon efforts to use race to discriminate against whom they choose
19. Conservatives believe in border security - Liberals believe illegals are an excellent source for votes
20. Conservatives believe that the United States Constitution means what it says and says what our Founding Fathers hoped would stand the test of time - Liberals believe the Constitution to be a living document that is subject to the whims of the Congress and even the Supreme Court
Posted by: MJC on December 11, 2006 01:28 PMConservatives are optimists. Liberals are pessimists.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on December 11, 2006 05:29 PMI am working on an essay (as time permits with 3 kids under age 4) on core conservative values and how conservatism builds upon the core values.
Life
Liberty
Property
(John Stuart Mills)
Once you come to terms with those concepts and the rights and responsibilities inherent in them the rest is really pretty easy. It's when we compromise on the core values that things get hard.
Posted by: JCM on December 11, 2006 07:31 PMYou are exhibit A for our points, my especially, no sense of humor.
You fail to address any of the points presented, instead you declare it all "a load of crap." Then proceed to ad hominem attacks, "pathetic," "idiocy," are your points of argument.
Is it any wonder we have so much fun with liberals?
Posted by: JCM on December 12, 2006 08:35 AM1. Liberals believe individuals should doubt their own truths and consider fairly and open-mindedly the truths of others. This is at the very heart of liberalism. Liberals understand, as Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes once observed, that "time has upset many fighting faiths." Liberals are skeptical of censorship and celebrate free and open debate.
2. Liberals believe individuals should be tolerant and respectful of difference. It is liberals who have supported and continue to support the civil rights movement, affirmative action, the Equal Rights Amendment and the rights of gays and lesbians. (Note that a conflict between propositions 1 and 2 leads to divisions among liberals on issues like pornography and hate speech.)
3. Liberals believe individuals have a right and a responsibility to participate in public debate. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion expansion of the franchise; the elimination of obstacles to voting; "one person, one vote;" limits on partisan gerrymandering; campaign-finance reform; and a more vibrant freedom of speech. They believe, with Justice Louis Brandeis, that "the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people."
4. Liberals believe "we the people" are the governors and not the subjects of government, and that government must treat each person with that in mind. It is liberals who have defended and continue to defend the freedom of the press to investigate and challenge the government, the protection of individual privacy from overbearing government monitoring, and the right of individuals to reproductive freedom. (Note that libertarians, often thought of as "conservatives," share this value with liberals.)
5. Liberals believe government must respect and affirmatively safeguard the liberty, equality and dignity of each individual. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion the rights of racial, religious and ethnic minorities, political dissidents, persons accused of crime and the outcasts of society. It is liberals who have insisted on the right to counsel, a broad application of the right to due process of law and the principle of equal protection for all people.
6. Liberals believe government has a fundamental responsibility to help those who are less fortunate. It is liberals who have supported and continue to support government programs to improve health care, education, social security, job training and welfare for the neediest members of society. It is liberals who maintain that a national community is like a family and that government exists in part to "promote the general welfare."
7. Liberals believe government should never act on the basis of sectarian faith. It is liberals who have opposed and continue to oppose school prayer and the teaching of creationism in public schools and who support government funding for stem-cell research, the rights of gays and lesbians and the freedom of choice for women.
8. Liberals believe courts have a special responsibility to protect individual liberties. It is principally liberal judges and justices who have preserved and continue to preserve freedom of expression, individual privacy, freedom of religion and due process of law. (Conservative judges and justices more often wield judicial authority to protect property rights and the interests of corporations, commercial advertisers and the wealthy.)
9. Liberals believe government must protect the safety and security of the people, for without such protection liberalism is impossible. This, of course, is less a tenet of liberalism than a reply to those who attack liberalism. The accusation that liberals are unwilling to protect the nation from internal and external dangers is false. Because liberals respect competing values, such as procedural fairness and individual dignity, they weigh more carefully particular exercises of government power (such as the use of secret evidence, hearsay and torture), but they are no less willing to use government authority in other forms (such as expanded police forces and international diplomacy) to protect the nation and its citizens.
10. Liberals believe government must protect the safety and security of the people, without unnecessarily sacrificing constitutional values. It is liberals who have demanded and continue to demand legal protections to avoid the conviction of innocent people in the criminal justice system, reasonable restraints on government surveillance of American citizens, and fair procedures to ensure that alleged enemy combatants are in fact enemy combatants. Liberals adhere to the view expressed by Brandeis some 80 years ago: "Those who won our independence ... did not exalt order at the cost of liberty."
Now please don't let divert you from your right wing circle jerk.
Posted by: RobK1967 on December 12, 2006 08:53 AMExcellent!
1. Who promotes speech codes and the fairness doctrine, which is suppression of speech? Libs
2. Who is more tolerant? The dems who through Liberman under the bus for not following the party line, which are there more of; pro-choice Reps, or pro-life Dems?
3. Who has done more to stifle the debate. Like you first post with personal attacks and avoiding the issue. I seldom have a debate with a lib without being called racist, sexist and homophobic.
4. Agree for the most part. Life, Liberty and Property. On reproductive rights, the embryo, fetus, child meets the biology definition of Life. It is also distinct from the mother. Who defends this individual.
5. Government by nature infringes on liberty. Limited government by enhances liberty. History question where did LBJ get support for Civil Rights bills? Certainly not the libs.
6. Wrong government has no business helping people with other peoples money, that is socialism. Government should get out the of the way. Help should first come from the individual themselves, there are consequences in life. Why should I pay for someone who drops out of school, does drugs and produces children without restraint? Personal responsibility, family, faith, and local community are the prime sources of help. Government by nature is not efficient at this job.
7. All laws are moral, murder is a moral judgement. Our government is firmly rooted in the Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian traditions, it is not possible to ignore this fact.
8. Individual liberty yes, but libs use the courts for legislative purposes. Abortion, by law should be an issue for the State Legislatures reflect the will of the people of that State. The unborn have some rights, i.e. murder can be charge for causing the death of an unborn child in some cases, yet the same child can be killed by a doctor with the consent of the mother.
9. Public safety is the number one job of government, yet libs have place the rights of criminals above the rights of victims.
10. Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY, to purchase a little TEMPORARY SAFETY, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
Ben Franklin, the correct citation.
The surveillance if you'd read past the first paragraph is not unwarranted surveillance on US citizens, it is on international communications with know terror suspects into the US.
Posted by: JCM on December 12, 2006 10:56 AMJCM, why should I waste my time debunking your talking points when you can't even make it past #2 without showing your level of intellect, "The dems who through Liberman under " I don't know about you but I when I see someone throw something, last I checked they threw it. Thank you for playing the game, please try again.
Posted by: RobK1967 on December 12, 2006 12:22 PMGranted I made a spelling / grammar error, I was typing rapidly on a break.
But it shows the liberal level of argument of not focusing on issues but on attacking the messenger.
Posted by: JCM on December 12, 2006 12:49 PM1. Liberals believe individuals should doubt their own truths and consider fairly and open-mindedly the truths of others. This is at the very heart of liberalism. Liberals understand, as Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes once observed, that "time has upset many fighting faiths." Liberals are skeptical of censorship and celebrate free and open debate.
Individuals don’t own their “own” truths. Truth is verifiable and is universal to all. But thanks for illuminating, right off the bat, a key tenet at the “heart” of the cult of liberalism – one should doubt all truths (to be replaced by “faith” in liberal whackjobbery). Since when does the faith of liberalism allow for “free and open debate”?? Liberals are hell bent on shutting down debate, from personal invective to fascistic thuggery. Have you not paid attention to what Leftist punks are perpetrating on our university campuses? Are you aware of what just happened at Columbia? Remember the WTO riots where spoiled Leftist punks went on a vicious rampage – for what noble purpose exactly, I ask??
2. Liberals believe individuals should be tolerant and respectful of difference. It is liberals who have supported and continue to support the civil rights movement, affirmative action, the Equal Rights Amendment and the rights of gays and lesbians. (Note that a conflict between propositions 1 and 2 leads to divisions among liberals on issues like pornography and hate speech.)
Really? How can one respect “difference” yet force “equality” at the same time? When are leftists going to “respect” differences in political ideology? Remember, it was Republicans who vanquished slavery. And which Party was least supportive of Civil Rights legislation in the sixties – that’s right – it was the Demonrats who stood in the schoolhouse door, and obstructed the Civil Rights movement through Congress. These are verifiable facts (which no sub-group “owns”) - although, I’m almost certain, you’d “doubt” them – in the interest of altruistic liberalism of course. The Left has transformed “Affirmative Action” into a form of legalized racism. Witness the Michigan Civil Rights Initiative (MCRI) which just passed in November. Who exactly opposed it and why? The ERA is a sham – we all have “equal” rights under the law (except when activist judges run rampant) Name one single right that I have that a self-described “gay” person does not have? Not Marriage – I can’t marry any person of the opposite sex either. And if you think real hard, you’ll notice that’s the same exact “right” for all of us applied equally under the law.
3. Liberals believe individuals have a right and a responsibility to participate in public debate. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion expansion of the franchise; the elimination of obstacles to voting; "one person, one vote;" limits on partisan gerrymandering; campaign-finance reform; and a more vibrant freedom of speech. They believe, with Justice Louis Brandeis, that "the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people."
I wholeheartedly agree with your first statement – but it’s anything but unique to Liberalism. What, pray tell, do you mean by “expansion of the franchise”? Conservatives are all for legally eligible and verified Citizens exercising their right to vote – what obstacles are you talking about (he asked, knowingly)?? I don’t know a single Conservative who wants any voter to have more than one vote. How concerned were you with the nefarious actions of Mr. Dean Logan? I actually agree that the political gerrymandering process needs serious reform, but that’s not an ideological difference we’re talking about, that’s a systemic problem with our political system. I must say though, just as with the Electoral College, liberals only become incensed with machinations like gerrymandering when the gun they’ve been wielding has been suddenly turned on themselves. What “more vibrant” freedom of speech did you have in store for us?
4. Liberals believe "we the people" are the governors and not the subjects of government, and that government must treat each person with that in mind. It is liberals who have defended and continue to defend the freedom of the press to investigate and challenge the government, the protection of individual privacy from overbearing government monitoring, and the right of individuals to reproductive freedom. (Note that libertarians, often thought of as "conservatives," share this value with liberals.)
Come on – you don’t believe in We The People – you believe in We The Liberals. Don’t you believe that great, super-smart, extra-good Liberals should be in charge of government – and everyone else should be subjected to its utopian schemes, endless taxation, massive coercion for the preservation of Mommy Earth – all serving a plethora of coerced goodness handed down from Big Daddy – all for our own “good” of course?? Where has the “freedom of the press” been infringed by Conservatives? I agree that government is way too intrusive and over-bearing – but this is the ultimate GOAL of a Liberal utopia – is it not?! Give some examples of Conservatives preventing anyone from freely “reproducing”.
5. Liberals believe government must respect and affirmatively safeguard the liberty, equality and dignity of each individual. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion the rights of racial, religious and ethnic minorities, political dissidents, persons accused of crime and the outcasts of society. It is liberals who have insisted on the right to counsel, a broad application of the right to due process of law and the principle of equal protection for all people.
Wow – that opening statement is magnanimously sweeping. Some examples, please? Which endangered, special “rights” of “minorities” are you referring to? Conservatives believe in due process of law and legal “equal protection” for all Citizens. Are you actually trying to make the case that Liberals are budding Constitutionalists? (Taking a stab here: Have you perhaps been a law student who has benefited from Affirmative Racism?)
6. Liberals believe government has a fundamental responsibility to help those who are less fortunate. It is liberals who have supported and continue to support government programs to improve health care, education, social security, job training and welfare for the neediest members of society. It is liberals who maintain that a national community is like a family and that government exists in part to "promote the general welfare."
Ah, yes – the old “promote the general Welfare” phrase trotted out to justify any Liberal scheme under the sun. That nebulous phrase is mentioned in the Pre-Amble to the Constitution and states a general notion. But, it is the text comprising the original body and the Amendments to the Constitution which prescribe exactly what the federal government CAN and MUST do – and nothing more, unless specifically authorized within the supreme law that is the Constitution. Sorry – but government has an absolutely abysmal, not to mention unauthorized, track record of IMPROVING things such as health care, education, etc. Please tell us exactly what you mean by Liberals “maintain that a national community is like a family”?! You mean you’ll gladly use government power to achieve some form of Communism, or Marxist societal structure, don’t you? Yes, you do.
7. Liberals believe government should never act on the basis of sectarian faith. It is liberals who have opposed and continue to oppose school prayer and the teaching of creationism in public schools and who support government funding for stem-cell research, the rights of gays and lesbians and the freedom of choice for women.
But Liberals most certainly believe that government should be controlled and run by Liberals who militantly maintain their own (Liberal) sectarian faith – because almost all of Liberal whackjobbery must be taken (or forced) on faith. True Conservatives don’t believe that government should be a wing of Christianity or any other religion, HOWEVER, they certainly do recognize, respect, and endeavor not to interfere with the practice of religious freedom, want to preserve it in (not drive it from) the Public Square, exalt our human Rights which come from our Creator, and acknowledge that the foundations and the spirit of America are deeply rooted in Christian-Judeo religious convictions which strongly informed the secular values of our government. What harm is done by allowing a child to pray to their God in a school? What’s wrong with teaching “creationism” in school? It’s because Liberals don’t want ANY competition (diversity) which might threaten their own Liberal faith. For the record, you’ve probably guzzled far too much Kool-aid to know this, but our government under GWB has funneled tons of our dough into stem-cell research. The truth is that they have capped the amount to FETAL stem-cell research funding which has shown NO medical promise, whereas there has been increasing funds provided for ADULT stem-cell research which certainly has demonstrated medical benefits for treatments. And why do Leftists continue to hide behind silly euphemisms like a woman’s “right to choose”. You hide because you refuse to admit, and reveal, the ruse. If you were interested in truth, you’d call it something like the “right to kill your baby”. No Conservative desires to eliminate any “right” to choose when and where to procreate, to choose whether or not use contraception, or to choose which method to raise the child once it’s born. Conservatives simply wish to restrict the illegitimate “right” to kill the most innocent among us – don’t you? Doesn’t an infant also have the Rights to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, all of which are INALIENABLE, and shall not be infringed by anyone??
8. Liberals believe courts have a special responsibility to protect individual liberties. It is principally liberal judges and justices who have preserved and continue to preserve freedom of expression, individual privacy, freedom of religion and due process of law. (Conservative judges and justices more often wield judicial authority to protect property rights and the interests of corporations, commercial advertisers and the wealthy.)
Courts have a “special” responsibility, as prescribed by the Constitution, to BALANCE our rights and liberties pursuant to upholding the law. That is, they shall ADJUDICATE within the confines of the law; they are not to LEGISLATE by crafting their own law simply because they wear black robes. Liberals virulently believe in the latter, but only when it serves their political goals to create a liberal utopia on Earth. Do you honestly believe that “LIBERAL judges” are duly anointed (by whom?) to “PRESERVE” our freedoms and rights? Please explain that. Why wouldn’t a “liberal” judge want to uphold property rights, and corporate rights, and to treat the wealthy as equal under the law??
9. Liberals believe government must protect the safety and security of the people, for without such protection liberalism is impossible. This, of course, is less a tenet of liberalism than a reply to those who attack liberalism. The accusation that liberals are unwilling to protect the nation from internal and external dangers is false. Because liberals respect competing values, such as procedural fairness and individual dignity, they weigh more carefully particular exercises of government power (such as the use of secret evidence, hearsay and torture), but they are no less willing to use government authority in other forms (such as expanded police forces and international diplomacy) to protect the nation and its citizens.
Explain exactly, through the righteous practice of the liberal faith, how they protect the “safety and security” of the people? Rioting? Union thuggery? Disarmament? Going as easy as possible on criminals? Allowing million-strong hordes of rapacious racists to invade our borders annually? Please enumerate all of the superior initiatives for “safety and security” which Liberal true-believers have ever championed?? Define torture. Please, also, enumerate all of the occasions where we have diplomatically negotiated our way to safety as a nation.
10. Liberals believe government must protect the safety and security of the people, without unnecessarily sacrificing constitutional values. It is liberals who have demanded and continue to demand legal protections to avoid the conviction of innocent people in the criminal justice system, reasonable restraints on government surveillance of American citizens, and fair procedures to ensure that alleged enemy combatants are in fact enemy combatants. Liberals adhere to the view expressed by Brandeis some 80 years ago: "Those who won our independence ... did not exalt order at the cost of liberty."
Conservatives believe in your opening statement as well. Why is it that we must endure unlimited searches and seizures at out airports and at public events because our government refuses to perform its most primary Constitutional duty of sealing our borders and of knowing who is blending among us? It is Liberals and NeoCons (not Conservatives at all) who are entranced by wide-open borders – liberals for the new votes, neo-cons for the cheap labor, and both for fresh ‘victims’ with which to bribe by lavishing benefits. Why do we pour untold wealth and treasure into the armpit of the Middle East under the guise of securing freedom for foreigners and terrorists while we abjectly refuse to secure our own nation? Because NeoCons, like GWB, are obsessed with the “compassionate conservative” fantasy that we will FORCE other nations to be formed into our own image by unlimited expenditure of the blood and resources seized from American Citizens – for their own “safety” of course.
Now please don't let divert you from your right wing circle jerk.
Judging by your invective and contemptuous commentary – it’s fairly easy to see why Leftists are so violent and pessimistic these days. It’s because they know Conservatives are right – they just wish it were not so – and so must turn to drugs or blind devotion to their religion in order to hang on to their totalitarian fantasies…
So, why not swear-off the liberal whackjobbery, cold-turkey, and begin discovering the optimistic, realistic Conservative side!
-Jefferson Paine
"Now please don't let divert you from your right wing circle jerk."
Just thought I'd put his snotty criticism of JCM at #9 in perspective.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on December 12, 2006 01:26 PMSome conservatives that post at Sound Politics may be the exceptions that prove the rule, but in general I think JCM is dead on.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on December 12, 2006 02:53 PMWhat Does a Conservative Conserve?
December 12, 2006
By Eric Robert Morse
The concern of modern liberals is the material well-being of its citizens; the conservative sees man's ambition, his aim, his purpose as equally important.
Hmmm, and "left wingers" don't exactly pick up on the satire of, say, Ann Coulter, or Rush Limbaugh. They act insulted instead.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on December 12, 2006 04:44 PMYou can't make a comment or promote an idea without making a personal attack. What does that say about you? And what does it say about the kind of people that buy into the liberal/socialist/progressive,(or whatever you call yourselves this week), ideology?
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on December 12, 2006 05:40 PMLiberalism is a mental disorder. The cure is nearly impossible once it has matasticized in an adult, so just be thankful that conservatives are rooted in the real world. Instead of debating people uninterested in truth and facts, work at prevention of liberalism in the young who are most vulnerable to Hollywood, the old media, and Democrat lunacy.
Liberals are incapable of digesting facts. I think it's some sort of barrier liberalism places between the eardrum and eyes and the brain. They think they are discussing issues, but all anyone hears is name-calling, hypocrisy and arrogance. A Liberal is always right, never has to prove it, and has something bad to say about anyone who disagrees.
Posted by: MJC on December 13, 2006 10:35 AMPS Poor Billy, if you go back you were the one who started this since you took the first shot at me which is quite ironic given that you whine about my so called nastiness.
Posted by: RobK1967 on December 13, 2006 02:00 PM"4. What a load of crap. You people are so pathetic if this is what you think passes for humor, but I must admit your idiocy is amusing to me. I am quite glad to be a full blooded liberal if you think any of these so called points are worth anything more than printing and using as toilet paper."
I think if you make a post like that with not one ounce of substance you shouldn't be suprised if you get "shot at". And you've proved your inability to deal with it like a grown-up.
'nuff said.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on December 13, 2006 02:13 PMIt's always useful to illustrate a point with facts. And fun, too.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on December 13, 2006 02:54 PMYou responded with a personal attack on JCM at #9. I rather imagine you realized you couldn't refute a single point JCM made, so you took the usual, comical liberal route. That's why we enjoy the fun. You're so predictable.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on December 13, 2006 03:20 PMSorry Billy but if you think what JCM engaged in was dialogue you are more deluded than I gave you credit for.
Posted by: RobK1967 on December 13, 2006 03:36 PMClearly you are way out of your depth here. Name calling and personal attacks are a way of life at Horsesass.org, they aren't at Sound Politics.
I enjoy having spirited discussions with intelligent liberals here such as Bruce, Dinesh, and even sometimes Ivan. I'm not at all ashamed to say that I have conceded points on occasion.
I believe you will find that a different approach will serve you better here in the future.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on December 13, 2006 03:51 PMWoodshed provided free of charge.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on December 13, 2006 04:43 PMWe're you awarded a scholarship, robby?
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskold on December 13, 2006 06:31 PMI wonder when you'll actually contribute something substantive... or did they not offer that at PeeWeeU?
You make a very good little sheep, rob.
You want to know the only REAL difference between liberals and (religious) conservatives? Liberals do what they FEEL is right. (Religious) conservatives do what they BELIEVE is right.
Oops, I guess that's not much of a difference after all.
Posted by: AD on December 13, 2006 07:09 PMSubstantive debate... ever heard of it?
Refutation of arguement... ever heard of it?
Discussion without insult... ever heard of it?
"Act worthy of yourselves."
TRANSLATION: I know you are, but what am I?"
Thanks again for so aptly providing the proof.