December 10, 2013
Young don't like what they see with Obamacare

Obamacare isn't a good deal for younger health insurance purchasers. The "3-1" rule will, by design, result in higher prices for young people so they can subsidize older workers who aren't old enough for Medicare. Some young purchasers will qualify for government subsidies, but most will not.

As someone succinctly put it to the L.A. Times regarding Obamacare, "It has the effect of benefiting people in their 50s and 60s and shifting costs to people in their 20s and 30s."

And wouldn't you know it, young people aren't very enthusiastic about signing up for coverage. The White House has said that it needs about 40% of exchange purchasers to be under 35 to avoid premium spikes. According to Ezra Klein at the Washington Post, the administration's own definition of success for Obamacare is getting enough young purchasers in the exchange to hold down premium increases.

That's looking increasingly unlikely. Not only are enrollment rates for young people tepid at best, the recent and much-discussed Harvard University Institute of Politics poll of 18-29 year-olds finds that less than 1/3 of Millennials are likely to enroll in the exchange. 57% of them disapprove of Obamacare (slipping only 1 point to 56% when it was instead called the Affordable Care Act) and 51% think the law will increase their costs while only 11% think their costs will go down.

Incredibly, despite the fact that the cost of Obamacare coverage is a major obstacle to greater participation in the exchanges by young people, the White House's grand prize winner in a video contest was for a song titled "Forget the Price Tag." You can't make this stuff up.

The president's poll numbers among Millennials are taking a beating. 55% of survey respondents voted for Obama in 2012 while just 33% voted for Mitt Romney, yet 54% disapproved of the president's job performance. And the numbers get worse among the youngest surveyed. The 18-24 year-olds polled, most of whom were not old enough to vote in 2008, are more negative about President Obama. 52% of them say they would vote to recall Obama if they could, versus 40% of the 25-29 group.

Posted by Adam Faber at December 10, 2013 03:26 PM | Email This
Comments
1. .
Adam Faber, as someone succinctly put it you sorry ass HACK, wouldn't you know it your post is yet another rehash of crystal ballery predictions.

It's looking increasingly unlikely you'll ever get the hang of understanding ObamaCare is here to stay, incredibly, despite the fact that all that faux Republican outrage and hissy fits won't write something that can replace it.

The president's poll numbers may be taking a beating long after such polls are relevant to elections, but nothing like the beating Obama gave the Republican candidate he beat to be re-elected in 2012. You can't make this stuff up.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on December 10, 2013 04:52 PM
2. .
OT, but how 'bout President Obama shaking hands with the leader of Cuba while memorializing African National Congress leader and revolutionary, Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela?

I wonder if Adam Faber, notorious sorry ass HACK, would have thought it looked increasingly unlikely to ever occur after Saint Ronald Reagan vetoed bipartisan legislation to impose sanctions on South Africa's government during apartheid in 1986.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on December 10, 2013 05:00 PM
3. Oh, but Mike, there are so many great results from the survey, not just the ones Adam hacked out of it. F'rinstance, if one goes to the link Adam provided, and *reads more than half-way down the page*, the following delicious information appears:

69% of the time, 18- to 29- year olds prefer enacting "'The Buffet Rule,' a requirement that people making over $1 million a year pay at least 30% of their income in taxes" over five other options offered to reduce the federal budget deficit.

The only option that gained support from majority of each party, the "Buffet Rule" was preferred by 83% of Democrats, 69% of Independents -- and 57% of Republicans.

I sure Adam (and the peanut gallery here) will continue to sjow show deep reverence for what young people think about possible changes in government policy.

Posted by: tensor on December 10, 2013 05:22 PM
4. Looting the Millennials to subsidize the geezers and the indigent simultaneously is about the heights of deluded blue-state socialist thinking. But no members of the Obama admin have ever worked in a business which must profit to survive - economic fantasies are all they know. So they deprive Millennials of the surplus income they need to buy homes and start families, to purchase blue-state votes for themselves to remain in power forever.

Last time the country demanded of its youth to do its civic duty, they were sent off to fight in Vietnam. Some of the intellectuals here may recall how successful that caper was at building youthful support for government programs - it caused a near-revolution. Obamacare, with its mindless appeals to Millennials to do THEIR civic duty by paying inflated health premiums, is about to run into the same buzz saw that President Johnson did.

Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on December 10, 2013 05:36 PM
5. Remember the old SNL skit where Dan Akroyd would say "Jane you ignorant slut?" That was funny. But MBS you are not funny, and even less rational.

Posted by: Mike on December 10, 2013 06:07 PM
6.
...incredibly, despite the fact that all that faux Republican outrage and hissy fits won't write something that can replace it.

"You don't like our five-year plan? What's your five-year plan! Huh, huh, huh?! You don't have a master plan, do you!!!"

Society isn't ordered from the top down by government plans, not in free societies anyway.

The plan is freedom and the protection of individual rights. Not some Statist totalitarian master plan for the ordering of society.

Posted by: Kevin R. on December 10, 2013 06:13 PM
7. Didn't our very own Green River Congressman David Reichert (Republican) vote for Cap and Trade?

Yes, yes he did...

Just another Sound Politics Lie by Omission.

Posted by: Steve on December 10, 2013 06:14 PM
8. the recent and much-discussed Harvard University Institute of Politics poll of 18-29 year-olds finds that less than 1/3 of Millennials are likely to enroll in the exchange

If 1/3 of 18-29 year-olds enrolled in exchange policies, Obamacare would be a huge success, far exceeding anyone's goals or expectations.

Posted by: scottd on December 10, 2013 09:32 PM
9. I have an off topic question. After all this whole Obamacare thing is kind of boring. We know it is going to fail, it was designed to fail, and then the Democrats and the Press are going to blame "the Republicans" "Heritage" or whatever that narrative is that they are making up right now. Okay. This is all going to lead the way to Single Payer ie. fully government run health care. And the Republicans are going to fall into this trap because they are going to try to Fix not Fold Obamacare, but you can't fix something that is designed to fail. It is like if someone put laundry detergent in one's gas tank and someone else promises to fix the car by putting a better quality of laundry detergent in the gas tank.

Okay, so we all know that.

Here's my question. Say you were the offspring of two parents. Each of them being dual citizens. One of them has US hyphen something else dual citizenship. And the other one has citizenship in two different countries. So you are a US citizen due to the one parent having US citizenship along with some other citizenship. Okay, follow me so far. Then say you are born in a country that isn't any of the previous citizenships. So, my question is does this make you a citizen of FIVE countries (the US and four others)? And say you marry someone who isn't a citizen of the previous countries. Are you children citizens of SIX countries?

Just curious.

There's someone I know that has the possibility of three citizenships. US Cuba and Canada. Born in Canada to an US citizen and a Cuba citizen.

I have another question. JB Cooper hijacked a plane and threatened to blow it up if money wasn't paid to him. They gave him the money and he jumped out of the plane and they never caught him.

Some think he died in the jump, but say he did survive.

Can I now go and hijack a plane and use as an excuse "JB Cooper did it and he wasn't convicted"? Does two wrongs make a right in the sense of if one person gets to break a law with no consequences should other people get to break the law?

Posted by: Jake on December 10, 2013 09:36 PM
10. Looting the Millennials to subsidize the geezers and the indigent simultaneously is about the heights of deluded blue-state socialist thinking.

Which has the higher per-capita income: the red states, or the blue states? Discuss.

But no members of the Obama admin have ever worked in a business which must profit to survive...

Like W.? Sorry, did you have a point? If so, what was it?

So they deprive Millennials of the surplus income they need to buy homes and start families...

Witness against America's overpaid CEOs! Tell it, brother!

Posted by: tensor on December 10, 2013 11:25 PM
11. @8, don't play dumb. You know 1/3 of people 18-29 will not purchase plans through the exchange. The poll just takes the pulse of how they feel about Obamacare.
And of course, the only young people who help make the Obamacare exchange financially viable are the ones who purchase insurance. The Medicaid sign-ups don't do anything to keep premiums down.

Posted by: Uhh... on December 11, 2013 12:14 AM
12. I wonder what percentage of 18-26 year olds will remain on their parents insurance rather than purchase their own plan. If it is a large percentage, then the 18-29 demo is really a 27-29 demo and a much smaller pool.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on December 11, 2013 06:01 AM
13. Uhh.... Take it up with Adam. He's the one who thought the poll was significant. I was just pointing out the logical conclusion of the polling results. Personally, I think that poll is meaningless.

The 18-35 demographic is huge -- roughly 77 million people. To meet its goals, the administration only has to find 2.7 million of them to purchase insurance. That's less than 3.5%.

If they don't quite make it, it won't matter. Obamacare will still be here and you guys will still be whining about the occasional web page that doesn't load fast enough and sputtering about the impending collapse of America. And I'll still be here laughing.

Posted by: scottd on December 11, 2013 06:21 AM
14. @13, About half the liberal responses on here are "Hahaha, Obamacare is here to stay, suckers!" Not "Obamacare is totally going to work out" or "Obamacare absolutely is going to reach its goals" or "No, premiums aren't going to explode next year." Just "The program will continue to exist and that will drive you conservatives crazy."

Here's a fun exchange for you from this morning.
Said Congressman Joe Pitts: "The AP reported that a September 5 memo sent to you listed monthly enrollment targets for the exchanges, and this memo indicated that your target enrollment number for the end of December is 3.3 million. Based on HHS's release this morning, your department is more than 3 million off their target number, isn't that correct?"
"Through the end of November, that is correct, sir," said Sebelius.

Posted by: Uhh... on December 11, 2013 09:27 AM
15. 14. @13, About half the liberal responses on here are "Hahaha, Obamacare is here to stay, suckers!" Not "Obamacare is totally going to work out" or "Obamacare absolutely is going to reach its goals" or "No, premiums aren't going to explode next year." Just "The program will continue to exist and that will drive you conservatives crazy."

And scottd quoted actual numbers, showing how favorable the odds are for the ACA to succeed. You declined to engage him on those numbers, instead complaining we liberals aren't trying to reason with a crowd which does not approve of the ACA and never will approve of it, no matter what facts we cite.

That's what keeps us laughing.

Posted by: tensor on December 11, 2013 11:09 AM
16. Uhh sez, "About half the liberal responses on here are "Hahaha, Obamacare is here to stay, suckers!""

You left out the part about them taunting you for whining about it, which is what you do in your comment. That said, nearly all of the right's comments are examples of nutcases having flop-like-a-fish anxiety attacks over something they pulled from their ass.

"Looting the Millennials to subsidize the geezers"

"deluded blue-state socialist thinking"

"a near-revolution"

"some Statist totalitarian master plan for the ordering of society"

You didn't mention that you were also chided for not having a health care plan. Actually, one of you did come up with a health care plan.

"The plan is freedom and the protection of individual rights."

That's some health care plan you've got there.

Posted by: Doctor Mengele on December 11, 2013 11:24 AM
17. teabag tensor - What's the Buffet Rule @3? Take a clean plate?

You MaObamaCare apologists make me sick.

Posted by: all you can eat on December 11, 2013 01:27 PM
18. The Buffet Rule is the deficit-reduction plan the Millenials favor. It would reduce that deficit you righties whine so loudly about if there's a Democratic President.

"Teabag tensor" -- I keep telling you guys no. Your desperation is showing! :-)

"You MaObamaCare apologists make me sick."

Perhaps the ACA can help you to find a suitable health care plan? Or do we no longer treat "the vapors"?

Posted by: tensor on December 11, 2013 01:48 PM
19. "Obamacare absolutely is going to reach its goals"

Why would I say that? I don't know. I just know the panic stories right wingers put out there don't make any sense.

But you seem pretty certain. What do you think final enrollment levels are going to be on March 31, 2014?

"No, premiums aren't going to explode next year."

I'm pretty sure they won't, but I guess "explode" is in the eye of the beholder. Again, you seem to to be pretty certain. What do you expect the average increase will be for similar plans next year? Let's keep it simple and just look at Washington state.

Posted by: scottd on December 11, 2013 02:02 PM
20. When the employer mandate kicks in and over 100 million people added to the already 5 million + that have lost their health care and are being FORCED to pay 2 to 3 times what they were paying with 10xs the deductible rates, Democrats will be hunted with dogs across America..

Posted by: Sulaco on December 11, 2013 03:03 PM
21. Oh please more popcorn so I can watch the Dems implode next year. Per HHS 1.6 million people have signed up for Obamie care to date. Of those, Fed and state level websites 1.46 million have signed up for Medicare! Medicare now accounts by itself (!) for 46% of all federal spending, not including SS and the rest. Within three years SS and Medicare and Medicade will account for over 50% of all spending. SS is already paying out more in real dollars than it takes in in taxes. Are you ready for 80% tax rates needed to pay for this? That's if you're still in the less than 50% of the population that still pay fed income taxes...also according to the HHS even IF Ocare worked perfect 30 million would still not be covered. Were we not force to start this fasistic madness to cover 30 million without insurance in the first place?

Posted by: Sulaco on December 11, 2013 03:36 PM
22. tensore - Spell the name correctly. Buffett Rule. Still a stupid idea, however. Reduce the deficit by cutting out-of-control spending, not increasing taxes. One does not expect MaObama or you to understand basic econ.

Posted by: right over your head on December 11, 2013 03:38 PM
23. Sulaco @ 20 - I already "got me a huntin license" to quote a famous moron leftist.

All fired up - already to go ;')

Posted by: alphabet soup on December 11, 2013 04:39 PM
24. "Buffett Rule. Still a stupid idea, however."

I didn't comment on whether it would be good policy; I merely noted the status of it amongst Millenials, since Adam seems to believe their opinions on government policy are worthy of extended discussion here. Thank you for validating my sarcastic prediction @ 3.

"Reduce the deficit by cutting out-of-control spending, not increasing taxes. One does not expect MaObama or you to understand basic econ. "

Clinton eliminated the deficit, in part by raising some taxes. W brought it back via unproductive tax cuts and needless war. It's a dismal science, but it's not hard to understand.

Posted by: tensor on December 11, 2013 05:04 PM
25. .
I'm sorry to admit it, but after a long hard day of job creatin! I LMAO reading the tin foil hat lunatic wingnut ravings of Sulaco.

How many people have signed up for "Medicare" on the ObamaCare healthcare exchanges? LOL.

Surely the Dems will implode next year and if Medicare goes into effect one of these days, you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children, and our children's children, what it once was like in America when men were free.

You really have only one option, genius; don your protective hat.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on December 11, 2013 05:06 PM
26. .
Millennials are the leftiest generation since FDR

SKEWED POLLS! SKEWED POLLS! SKEWED POLLS!

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on December 11, 2013 05:17 PM
27. The Democrat party has been hijacked by their leadership and are more accurately referred to as the "Demunist Party". The milenials have been indoctrinated by the public school system. Based on their shallow lack of insightful comments, it is apparent that the indoctrination has taken effect, but there may a glimmer of hope as they discover that Obamacare aka the ACA is more detrimental than beneficial by a long shot.

With this so-called mindset, it is becoming clear that there is an anencephaliism epidemic amongst the young leftists, some of whom comment on this very blog.

Posted by: KDS on December 11, 2013 06:03 PM
28. Uhh sez, "Here's a fun exchange for you from this morning"

How about this fun exchange from this very thread?

"Democrats will be hunted with dogs across America"

"I already "got me a huntin license""

"All fired up - already to go"

Dreams of killing people. Over insurance. Does it get you all fired up, Uhh?

How about you, Adam? Those are your peeps. That's what's left of your base. That's your very own posse talking about killing Americans. Sorry, but you own it.

Hmm, maybe you should close another thread. Not a suggestion, it's just that it seems to be what you do these days when threads don't go the way you'd hoped.

Posted by: Doctor Mengele on December 11, 2013 06:33 PM
29. @15, those actual sign-ups are "actual numbers," and they're pathetic.

@19, "I guess 'explode' is in the eye of the beholder."
Considering President Obama said before the law passed that it would save the average family of four $2,500 a year, the fact that we're debating whether Obamacare will result in moderate price increases or big price increases shows how far off-base Obama's estimates were.

@26, you'd think the most leftist generation in years would like Obamacare more. Pretty said for the Democrats if 57% of these great leftists disapprove of Obamacare.

Posted by: Uhh... on December 11, 2013 06:48 PM
30. @27 - You are the only one talking about killing Americans who disagree. It sounds like the rants of one angry radical leftist and someone with anencephaliism - so sorry.

Posted by: KDS on December 11, 2013 06:50 PM
31. Wasn't it the ØbaMessiah who notoriously boasted, "I'm really good at killing people"? People who included Americans? You lefties have selective memories and even more selective outrage (when you aren't being outright drama queens).

Posted by: alphabet soup on December 11, 2013 07:16 PM
32. Oh and then there's this closer to home: "Oregon signs up just 44 people for Obamacare despite spending $300 million." Don't bother Mikeyboy I'll do the math for you: roughly $7 million per signup.

Posted by: Sulaco on December 11, 2013 08:12 PM
33. "Only 29% of uninsured young (35 and under)people now say they plan to sign up for Obamacare," President for life "I Won" ratings now below 30% with under 30 independents. Guess dergod needs to start killing American citizens again without charging them with a crime. Release the drones!!!

"This could become a gigantic problem, because the only way we can afford to cover all the people with pre-existing conditions is if younger, healthier people enroll as well. If only sick people sign up, our entire health insurance system falls apart."

Per Mr. Mark Crain? Who's Mark Crain you ask? He's with MoveOn.org.

More popcorn please, I love the smell of progressives heads exploding in the morning...

Posted by: Sulaco on December 11, 2013 08:31 PM
34. The president's approval is now in Bush territory. And mostly because he liked his approval rating, but now with the ACA he does not get to keep his approval rating.

Hey MikeBS, I am guessing you are one of these 200,000?

Posted by: Mike on December 11, 2013 08:47 PM
35. the fact that we're debating whether Obamacare will result in moderate price increases or big price increases shows how far off-base Obama's estimates were.

We're not debating anything. You're just having a hard time deciding whether you think rates will "explode" next year or not. Be sure to let us know once you make up your mind.

Posted by: scottd on December 11, 2013 11:14 PM
36. @35, you kind of glossed over the most important part of what I said. President Obama told people the average family of four would save $2,500 a year in premiums under Obamacare.

Are most families going to save $2,500 a year like he said?

Posted by: Uh... on December 11, 2013 11:28 PM
37. @32 Sulaco on December 11, 2013 08:31 PM,

OH NOZE! Your "math" shows Oregonians are paying "$7 million per signup for ObamaCare?

If your "math" is correct and not the ravings of a deranged lunatic wingnut, this must mean the chances of Oregon's Democratic Governor and strong vocal supporter of ObamaCare is DOOMED not to be re-elected a 4th time!

Just two days after announcing his bid for a fourth term, Oregon Gov. John Kitzhaber picked up an endorsement from the Oregon Business Association

Well thank Dog, Sulaco, you're not enrolling in ObamaCare! The cost of your treatment might well cause the national health insurance system to fall apart!

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on December 12, 2013 03:50 AM
38. you kind of glossed over the most important part of what I said.

Uhh... You keep changing what you're saying -- and none of it is important.

You're just one of the whining deadenders that hang out here, throwing out random crap you've read somewhere else. When you get called on it, you move on to something else.

You started with griping about enrollment levels and when I asked you where you thought things would end up, you moved on to declaring that rates would skyrocket. When I asked you by how much, you started babbling about how much they wouldn't go down. So, no explosion, I guess.

Fact is, you don't actually have a point.

Posted by: scottd on December 12, 2013 05:34 AM
39. @38, since my previous comments have apparently included insufficient discussion of numbers for your taste, let's discuss some numbers. These are from the latest enrollment figures for this state's exchange.

18,131 have enrolled in an insurance policy they pay for. 158,337 people have enrolled in Medicaid. That means only 11.45% of the successful sign-ups on the exchange are actual purchases on the exchange, which is its real purpose (Medicaid managed to exist without an exchange).

An additional 43,008 people have gone through the process but haven't yet made a payment, so even under the most optimistic way of looking at the numbers, only 38.6% of the sign-ups are for private coverage.

I haven't seen demographic data, but we know from other states that young healthy people haven't been clamoring to sign up. You asked where I thought enrollment numbers would end up.

My response: tough to say, but I'm guessing it won't achieve the right mix of people it needs. And since there are over 1 million uninsured people in this state, it will be a pretty low percentage of converting the uninsured to insured, even by March 31.

Of those Medicaid sign-ups, 66,484 were people who were already eligible for Medicaid before Obamacare but weren't signed up. The state will have to pay the 50/50 state-federal split for those people, money the state hasn't really budgeted for. That's going to cost a lot of money.

Was this comment sufficiently grounded in numbers for you? And about that "$2,500 in savings for a family of four," is that just unworthy of discussing because no one in the country, whether they support Obamacare or not, believes that? And what does it say about the president when no one - supporters, opponents, policy wonks - believes his #1 selling point is true?

Posted by: Uhh... on December 12, 2013 10:48 AM
40. Uhh,,, you can throw out all the numbers you want, but they're not related to the earlier points you tried to make. If you're not willing to clarify what you've already written, I don't see any point in continuing the discussion.

You're concerned with enrollment levels to date. I asked you what you expected enrollment to be at the end of Mar 2014 -- because that's what really matters. You still haven't answered that.

You seemed to be concerned about "exploding" rates next year. I asked you how much you expected rates to explode. Instead of answering, you decided to change the subject.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who's too afraid of his own position to explain it clearly.

Posted by: scottd on December 12, 2013 11:32 AM
41. Sulaco rants, "President for life "I Won""

President for life?? Nutjob.

KDS says, "You are the only one talking about killing Americans who disagree."

If I had, I'm sure you would have quoted me. But I didn't, so you couldn't. Sorry, but that's a fail, KDS.

A, B, C Soup sez, "outright drama queens"

Drama queen, huh? You mean like you in the previous thread talking about taking a tire iron to the heads of Democrats? Drama queen, or was that an actual threat to kill people? Either way, buddy, you're still a major-league putz.

At least in this thread we got a right-wing health care plan out of one of these guys. Perhaps Freedom! © isn't much of a health care plan, but at least he put it out there. We can add that to Sharkansky's HSAs. Freedom and more HSAs. Too damned funny. Way to think outside the box, guys.

Posted by: Doctor Mengele on December 12, 2013 01:41 PM
42. More popcorn please, I love the smell of progressives heads exploding in the morning.

All the more exciting because they have their heads up their ... perfectly representative progressive party icon.

Oh. And yes, our son is staying on our policy. NO ONE in my family will even venture to log on to the death star healthcare.gov and/or its evil twin here in WAhhhh.

Merry Christmas ...and thanks for the delicious schadenfreude!

Yeehaw! "This is a bloodbath."

You loud lefty's sure know how to give great gifts!

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on December 12, 2013 01:54 PM
43. Oh. And yes, our son is staying on our policy. NO ONE in my family will even venture to log on to the death star healthcare.gov and/or its evil twin here in WAhhhh.

A few months ago, you were griping mightily about your health insurance renewal, but I guess you found that things weren't so bad. Maybe you can share your solution with the rest of us -- tell us how you avoided the death star! Did you decide to just overpay Regence instead of looking for a less expensive but less ideologically pure solution?

Posted by: scottd on December 12, 2013 02:49 PM
44. Rags, glad to hear you profess your family is realizing one of the many benefits of ObamaCare.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on December 12, 2013 02:49 PM
45. "If I had, I'm sure you would have quoted me. But I didn't, so you couldn't. Sorry, but that's a fail, KDS."

You did not identify who else did. That's your fail, Doctor.

Some self examination by looking in the mirror would be insightful for you. You want to be rubber and in your world, you imagine the rest of the world to be glue. Your display of anencephaliism in adolescence is revealing and SAD.

Posted by: KDS on December 12, 2013 06:10 PM
46. A few months ago, you were griping mightily about your health insurance renewal, but I guess you found that things weren't so bad. Maybe you can share your solution with the rest of us -- tell us how you avoided the death star! Did you decide to just overpay Regence instead of looking for a less expensive but less ideologically pure solution?

It's called RESIGNATION TO $3000 more per year. Want to donate since you're so free with OPM? As far as the death star - DON'T GO if you value the security of your personal information.

Laughing at YOU: Happy Schadenfreude!

Congratulations President Incompetent!

Oh. And:

A New poll by Harvard Institute of Politics: by a 5:1 margin Millenials (ages 18-29) think OBAMAdoesn'tcare will lead to worse health care not better; by a 2 and a half:1 margin they think their costs will increase rather than decrease; 20% of those young people surveyed said they were likely sign up, 8% said they definitely sign up, 47% were not likely, 27% 27% DEFINITELY WOULD NOT sign up.

Do the math.

Chaos: HHS "asks" insurers to extend multiple ObamaCare deadlines

MILLIONS harmed in an attempt to help thousands - seems about right for the lying incompetent.

"voters, by a margin of 52% to 44%, said that Mr. Obama is not honest and trustworthy."

No kidding.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on December 12, 2013 06:35 PM
47. 44. Rags, glad to hear you profess your family is realizing one of the many benefits of ObamaCare.
Posted by MikeBoyScout at December 12, 2013 02:49 PM

Drunk/high blogging, again, huh?

Benefits: HIGHER cost, HIGHER deductible, FEWER benefits, FEWER hospitals, FEWER doctors: MILLIONS harmed to help thousands - most of whom don't care nor want to be helped. So completely definitive of liberalism.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on December 12, 2013 06:39 PM
48. Well I for one am disappointed that someone removed jrefjodsjfeiwofje's comment. Even though it was malware infested spam it was head & shoulders above anything I've seen from the libtards here.

Posted by: alphabet soup on December 12, 2013 06:59 PM
49. @43, seems like you're finding some pretty lame excuses to ignore the underwhelming enrollment numbers (the very things that will lead to, guess what, premium spikes) and the president's $2,500 per year claim.

But since enrollment numbers are of such interest to you, the state exchange today said 18% of private insurance purchasers are in the 18-34 category. The White House has said it needs 40% of buyers to be under 35 or else premiums will go up by a lot next year.

Posted by: Uhh... on December 12, 2013 07:01 PM
50. @47 RagnarDanneskold on December 12, 2013 06:39 PM,

so, how is "Oh. And yes, our son is staying on our policy." relevant?

How old is your son?

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on December 12, 2013 07:04 PM
51.
That said, nearly all of the right's comments are examples of nutcases having flop-like-a-fish anxiety attacks over something they pulled from their ass.

"some Statist totalitarian master plan for the ordering of society"
Posted by Doctor Mengele at December 11, 2013 11:24

---

"The plan is freedom and the protection of individual rights."

That's some health care plan you've got there.
Posted by Doctor Mengele at December 11, 2013 11:24 AM

"You're a nutcase for calling it a totalitarian Statist master plan! Now, what is YOUR Statist totalitarian master plan you nutcase! You don't got one!That's some master plan you've got there!"

LOL!!! That's what can be expected from someone that would go by the name Doctor Mengele. HA, ha, ha,ha!!!

Posted by: Kevin R. on December 12, 2013 07:05 PM
52. Also, here's a fun snippet from the Times story on the numbers.

"About 20,000 enrolled in Qualified Health Plans (QHPs) that insurance carriers are selling on Healthplanfinder."

"That figure is higher than the 6,351 who enrolled in QHPs by the end of October, but it remains far short of the 130,000 that the exchange has projected to enroll in QHPs by the end of 2013."

Posted by: Uhh... on December 12, 2013 07:05 PM
53. . re @43 scottd on December 12, 2013 02:49 PM

Rags, remember this?

23. Last year the monthly premium for our high deductible - $5000 - health coverage through Regence was $375. Last October it went up to $479/mo. Neither my son nor I have any pre-existing conditions and are both exceptionally healthy. With the high deductible policy we are 'allowed' 4 office visits each that don't count against the deductible. My son hasn't used any. I've used 2.

I fully expect our coverage to go up between 25 and 50%. When it does, we'll cancel and get on my husbands work policy.... or just pay the fine.
Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on July 19, 2013 01:12 PM

So, what's the scoop? Were your expectations fully realized? Apparently not, right? Because you were just going to pay the fine.
Today you reported you've got a policy.

Please, tell us the story about your expectations and the actual result.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on December 12, 2013 07:19 PM
54. So, what's the scoop? Were your expectations fully realized?

My expectations were realized and WORSE than expected ... just like MILLIONS of other Americans. Regence doesn't know it yet but we're dropping them and out of the WA insurance market.

Washington State #obamacare exchange raids enrollees' bank accounts
why does Washington State have a Obamacare exchange website where you can't access their plans, but they can access your bank account just fine?


RE 43:
So far, according to the administration's inflated numbers:

** Over 800,000 signed up for the taxpayer-funded Medicaid program.
** Approximately 365,000 signed up for Obamacare.
** And, 5-6 million have now lost their health care plans.

OBAMA-FAIL... Of 1.3 Million Who Signed Up For O-Care - Only 365,000 Are Paying Customers

Obamacare is a FAIL: CBS Notices 'Another Problem' With ObamaCare - Higher Deductibles; ABC, NBC Omit.....

It amazes that it's taken 5 years for them to figure this out.

Snort! "Obamacare, For Piece of Mind!"

The worst sad-faced:( part of the Obamprogressive debacle (but not the only sad-face part) is that it's all coming down (around them) at the busiest time of the year. I can barely find even a moment to enjoy the comeuppance of ego, hubris, narcissism, and selfie-aggrandizement! Can't wait for 2014!

Harming MILLIONS to insure thousands who neither care nor want insurance.

Seattle is excited!!

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on December 12, 2013 08:45 PM
55. "Laughing at YOU: Happy Schadenfreude!"

I'm thinking of your Pope and laughing at you, Rags. The dude really came down on your real religion, the Randroid philosophy of greed that you hold dearer to your heart than you do the teachings of Christ. It must suck for you having the Pope himself rubbing your nose in it.

KDS, "You did not identify who else did. That's your fail, Doctor."

Um, KDS, I identified a couple of commenters in this thread tossing around eliminationist lingo. Have you no problem with it? I only note it because as your party disintegrates I see more of this tough-guy talk coming from some of you. Stuff like this.

81. "the only thing that can change a leftists mind is a tire iron"

Posted by: alphabet soup on December 7, 2013 12:20 PM

KDS, "anencephaliism"

You've learned a big word. The Doctor is impressed. Now would you like me to explain to you what it means? Heh. Just kidding. Seriously, though, if you learned of this affliction through a family member's experience, consider that if she lives in a Red State there's a strong likelyhood that the she would be forced to carry to term and after birth, she would be denied health care through Medicaid. With the GOP closure of women's clinics, she might not even have the care available to her to even know that her child had the disorder. Of course, anencephaly would be a pre-existing condition and if the GOP had it's way, health care insurance would never be available to the child for as long as he or she might live.

Kevin R., "HA, ha, ha,ha!!!"

Oh-oh, the Psycho Laugh. Somehow I knew that was coming.

OK, the Freedom! © Health Care Plan was your brain-child, Kevin, as well as the insane rant about "some Statist totalitarian master plan for the ordering of society".

6. "The plan is freedom and the protection of individual rights. Not some Statist totalitarian master plan for the ordering of society."

Posted by Kevin R. at December 10, 2013 06:13 PM

Care to explain your Freedom! Health Care Plan ©? Heh. As for your 'master plan' rant, please don't bother explaining that one.

Posted by: Doctor Steve on December 12, 2013 08:58 PM
56. I'm thinking of your Pope and laughing at you, Rags. The dude really came down on your real religion,

I'm sorry you're so ignorant.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on December 12, 2013 09:04 PM
57. @54 Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on December 12, 2013 08:45 PM,

Sorry Rags. I guess I wasn't clear. I am not interested Regence, and I doubt anybody else here is either.

What are the details of your new ObamaCare compliant health insurance policy?

1) What's your deductible?
2) How many office visits that don't count against the deductible do you and your son have under your policy?
3) What is the cost of your monthly premium?
4) How old is your son?

Don't be bashful Rags. Tell us.

Your story is very interesting. And, of course, it will be great to compare what you got outside of the ObamaCare health exchange with what is available inside it.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on December 12, 2013 09:12 PM
58. In a new attempt to cut military spending, (15% of the total federal budget) "the Obama Administration plans to cut health benefits for active duty and retired military personnel and their families while not touching the benefits enjoyed by unionized civilian defense workers." It appears the (junta) administration wants to force active duty and retired military into the Obamacare rolls.

Mean while the junta has fired 48 four star generals (and unlisted number of lower officers)who refused to swear to obey Obamie instead of their oaths to the constitution (IMHO)..Or didn't, in North Korean style talk up the wonders of O if that makes you more comfortable...

Posted by: Sulaco on December 13, 2013 10:45 AM
59. HHS reported (very reluctantly of course) current costs for the 364,682 "enrollees", that is someone that has put a plan in a check out basket on line but not necessary paid yet, according to figures today only 15% have actually paid first months premiums. (In Maryland noted in O's recent speech EVERY application forwarded to the insurance companies by Maryland Care were wrong!!): Cost of Healthcare.gov to date is $677 million dollars. (A site reportedly Microsoft offered to build for free...not enough graft possibilities I am sure since it was "built" by a collage bud of Mrs. O after being fired by the Canadian Gov). Medicare and Medicaid Services have shoveled out $4.5 Billion bucks to promote Obamie care at the state level.

That works out to $14,000 + per "enrollee" that most likely is not enrolled. A small % of all this taxpayer money would have paid in full for the alleged 30 million Americans without insurance, the alleged spur for the Obamie care law in the first place. But then health insurance "reform" was never the reason as any rational person knows. It's all about power and control, always has been for the psychotic in the WH.

Posted by: Sulaco on December 13, 2013 11:05 AM
60. I'd say the Pope delivered a smack down of you, Ayn Rand, today's GOP and all that you stand for, Rags.

Pope Francis, "In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting."

"Today in many places we hear a call for greater security. But until exclusion and inequality in society and between peoples is reversed, it will be impossible to eliminate violence."

Yup, smack down delivered. A nice bookend to
Pope Leo XIII praising "workingmen's unions." But that's not all.

"I beg the Lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed by the state of society, the people, the lives of the poor! It is vital that government leaders and financial leaders take heed and broaden their horizons, working to ensure that all citizens have dignified work, education and healthcare."

The GOP has no jobs plan, has produced no jobs bills. You demonize those working for wages that keep them trappped in poverty. You demonize schools and teachers and seek to defund education. You would have creationism taught to students whereas the Church has rejected a literal interpretation of Genesis. You would rather see people die than receive Medicaid, just so you can save a buck. You hate the poor and hold yourself above them, derisively calling them "takers".

"Ethics - a non-ideological ethics - would make it possible to bring about balance and a more humane social order. With this in mind, I encourage financial experts and political leaders to ponder the words of one of the sages of antiquity: 'Not to share one's wealth with the poor is to steal from them and to take away their livelihood. It is not our own goods which we hold, but theirs.'"

Really, Rags, you and Pope Francis aren't on the same page at all.

Posted by: Doctor Mengele on December 13, 2013 11:10 AM
61. @60 Doctor Mengele on December 13, 2013 11:10 AM,
I'm sure that religious people in the (un)SP peanut gallery who follow that Pope fellow here are on board with Pope attacks mega-salaries and wealth gap in peace message
Francis said many places in the world were seeing a "serious rise" in inequality between people living side by side.
He attacked the "widening gap between those who have more and those who must be content with the crumbs", calling on governments to implement "effective policies" to guarantee people's fundamental rights, including access to capital, services, educational resources, healthcare and technology.

Wow! The Pope dude is saying the government should "guarantee people's fundamental rights, including access to healthcare".

Who else is it who calls access to healthcare a right to be provided by the government? Oh yeah, that Obama fellow.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on December 13, 2013 11:40 AM
62. "... has fired 48 four star generals (and unlisted number of lower officers)who refused to swear to obey Obamie instead of their oaths to the constitution..."

Sure, that really happened. I'm sure you've got names and all that, right? (Of course you don't!)

If you're trying to convince us you're not a deranged wingnut, you might want to try another method. Just sayin'.

Posted by: tensor on December 13, 2013 11:56 AM
63. Tensor,
I am sure Sulaco can quote tons of links. The right-wing (nut) machine is going crazy over this. What is harder to pin down is the original source and verify what is fact and what is opinion. WND (Obama smear machine masquerading as a news organization) is one of the leaders in the story, but there appears to be a lot more right-wing media outlets running with this story. The problem is all the outlets are quoting each other. It is like the birther story all over, now with military generals. Have some been fired? As Sarah Palin would say "You betcha!" General McCrystal was forced to resign after disobeying the military's policy on criticizing civilian leadership. This is really no different than Patton with Truman. People forget that generals (and admirals) do mess up from time to time. I remember under Reagan the whole Tailhook scandal. Is WND really saying that anything should go for the "generals"? If they screw up and don't follow military code of conduct, does WND believe they should still be kept on the job because they happen to believe what WND promotes? What if it was some liberal general (yes, there are those). Would WND suggest they shouldn't be let go (force to resign/fired) if they disobeyed military code of conduct? No, to me it is the Son/Daughter of Birthergate with WND again leading the wing-nut charge and every other right-wing pseudo news outlet and blogger linking to everyone else and trying to say it is a massive conspiracy. Maybe Megan Kelly from Fox will cover it next, because we know she is concerned about what is right in the world, including the fact that Jesus and Santa Claus is white.

Posted by: tc on December 13, 2013 12:54 PM
64. I always enjoy how the left gets so very angry and the first thing they do is call names.

We can always Depend on it.

Posted by: Independent Voter on December 13, 2013 01:18 PM
65. And the hits just keep on coming:
From the Centers for Midicare and Medicade:

Starting Jan. 1, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) will begin slashing 14 percent of their Home Health Care Prospective Payment Program budget, driving small home health-care providers out of business and potentially affecting millions of poor, elderly citizens in need of physical rehabilitation. The cuts -- which are being made to fund Obamacare -- will slash the homecare budget 3.5 percent every year for the next four.
CMS estimates that 40 percent or nearly 5,000 home health companies -- mainly small businesses -- will experience a "net loss" in revenue due to the cuts and go into the red by 2017, The Washington Examiner reports. "That will put many of them out of business."

Facts you are not disputing by the way are scary things for fascists aren't they?


Posted by: Sulaco on December 13, 2013 02:11 PM
66. "What is harder to pin down is the original source and verify what is fact and what is opinion."

It appears to have started on the Brietbart Facebook page, followed by a roundup of the usual suspects. It's just something else being framed by the right in a way that'll get twits like Sulaco hyperventilating on blog threads. Soon Megyn "Santa is white" Kelly will be clutching her pearls over it on Faux News. Sigh! That's how it works on the right. They have Sulaco figured as a stupe and play him like a fiddle.

Meanwhile, in the real world, officers get relieved of duty. Yawn!

http://www.stripes.com/news/navy/navy-commanders-relieved-of-duty-in-2012-1.168999

Geez, not a single mention of the Kenyan usurper in the comment threads. I thought this comment especially good and thought it might help shed some light on what's happening,

"As an ex-Navy Officer, I am ashamed of this. Captains and Admirals also are being dismissed. What happened to the Honorable Sea Service. Wow. A real mess. Our Bluejackets deserve much better. Too little pre-screening I would guess nowadays. Also, probably none of this is new stuff. Just a lot more squealing with the new generation not liking being reprimanded or being pushed to performance limits. Don't get me wrong, they should squeal for lack of competence, fraud and general misbehavior."

Also on the link to Stars & Stripes there's a list of the commanders and their offences.

Sulaco has been played. No surprise there.

Posted by: Doctor Mengele on December 13, 2013 02:40 PM
67. "Starting Jan. 1, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid"

My God, yet another wingnut having fits over savings in a government program they hate.

This is another one that seems to exist only on sites like Free Republic. They've probably taken savings to be realized by the Medicare Home Health Agency Value-Based Purchasing Program required by ACA and turned it into another Sulaco anxiety attack, poor sap.

You can read what the program is really about here. It's a rather lengthy DHHS report to Congress.

http://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Medicare-Fee-for-Service-Payment/HomeHealthPPS/Downloads/Stage-2-NPRM.pdf

Posted by: Doctor Mengele on December 13, 2013 03:03 PM
68. Obamacare is utterly failing as everyone with any sense knew it would, the left is panicked, irritable, petulant, and characteristically mentally unhinged, and it is all quite amusing to watch.
Lefty bozos, thanks for the show.

Posted by: Amused by Liberals on December 13, 2013 04:49 PM
69. @68 Amused by Liberals on December 13, 2013 04:49 PM,
You are absolutely correct. The left is panicked.
And why wouldn't we be?
With only a little over 3 years left in the presidency of Obama after his victory over Rmoney/Ryan, and with ObamaCare fully implemented we are up in arms.

And speaking of unhinged leftists, did you see on this thread how one of the leftists mentioned the absurdity of two (un)SP peanut gallery talking about the inevitable hunting of Democrats with dogs? That is unhinged, irritable petulant leftest panic right there brother.

For crying out loud Amused, even Rags is benefiting from ObamaCare!
We are all panicked. So very panicked.

Not like your side. No, not at all.
When's the next ObamaCare repeal vote?


Posted by: MikeBoyScout on December 13, 2013 05:21 PM
70. "For crying out loud Amused, even Rags is benefiting from ObamaCare!"

You should lay off the crack scooter.

Posted by: alphabet soup on December 13, 2013 05:45 PM
71.
Care to explain your Freedom! Health Care Plan ©? Heh. As for your 'master plan' rant, please don't bother explaining that one. Posted by Doctor Steve at December 12, 2013 08:58 PM

Right, I laugh at you Lefties so you tell me that's a psycho laugh. And it isn't a rant, it's sarcasm.

You people on the Left really don't understand the difference between a free country and one that is directed and orchestrated by the State. The Freedom Health Care Plan. That's a contradiction, Steve. Freedom and government plans that direct and orchestrate society are OPPOSITES, Steve.

Here's something to think about, Steve. a government that is directing all of the important elements of industries by government plans and government policies is one wherein the politics of the nation necessarily turns into a politics of loyalty and fidelity to individuals that wield the power within government to grant power and to protect your life. It's because with the government holding such vast power it is imperative for your survival and quality of life that you have loyalty and fidelity to the right people high up in power. Your life will depend on it more and more. And woe unto you if you hitch your wagon to the wrong star. With the government so strong that it directs so many aspects of society, such as those societies that are directed with grand plans such as comprehensive health care acts, your life is more and more dependent on your politics and your politics are completely dependent on loyalties to Men, not ideas.

That's what our country is devolving into, Steve. Personally, I feel much more secure living in a free country than a country like that.

Ha, freaking ha, Steve.

Posted by: Kevin R. on December 13, 2013 06:11 PM
72. "When's the next ObamaCare repeal vote?"

Teabaggers want another government shut-down in January. Pudge will again tell everyone it's the Democrats' fault, and Amused will gravely concur. Un-skewed polls everywhere will agree with such unison, Amused will deign to quote numbers.
Nobody will panic, at least not until mid-November.

Posted by: tensor on December 13, 2013 06:24 PM
73. Thanks Adam Faber for the excellent and accurate commentary.

As the facts and realities of the ObamaCare power-grab develops and Americans recognize the complete fraud being perpetrated by Obama, sluggo Harry Reid and "EMBRACE THE SUCK" Pelozi, even lefties will abandon the charade. Many of the putative leftist "leadership" is already planning their exit "stage right." This is truly enormously amusing indeed.

The excuse making and tactical venality exhibited in numerous and humorous ways on this thread is but an expression of the realization that the jig is up. The dogged ignorance of emotional manipulation and empty socialist falsehoods that have been experimented with since the beginning of time cannot possibly succeed in helping humans.

Americans (even spoiled indoctrinated idiot leftist Americans like tensor and boy boy) don't want to be Canadians or Brits or Swiss, or Danes; they want to be Americans (even tensor and boy). While their pride will never allow them to admit it openly, THEY TOO will secretly vote to stop ObamaCare.
And each separately of them of two (emotionally unstable) minds will openly insist it was a good idea.

Take any human and remove logic, accountability, and decency and you have a liberal progressive (retrogressive degenerate).

Posted by: Amused by Liberals on December 13, 2013 07:32 PM
74. "Teabaggers want another government shut-down in January."

Why would you say a thing like that about your fellow libtards tensore? Are you some kind of hater?

Posted by: alphabet soup on December 13, 2013 08:36 PM
75. Tensor's Mommy is a "Teabagger," he just won't admit it.

Posted by: Amused by Liberals on December 13, 2013 08:50 PM
76. Very soon now a fun event coming will be the 2014 layoffs liberal democrat morons and the arrogant selfish and destructive bargaining units idiotic rejection of Boeing's too generous offer will produce. It is about frigging time.

Golly whiz mechanics and machinists; what happens when you no longer have a place to extort a living?
ObamaCare Obamashamare, try losing everything you have because you are too spoiled and liberal to deal with simple reality.
And BTW, the current unemployment term will end this year moron liberals; don't count on any more extended government free lunch.

Get sick?
Need health care?
Who the hell are you fooling? What now?

Posted by: Amuzsed by Liberals on December 13, 2013 09:18 PM
77. 'd say the Pope delivered a smack down of you, Ayn Rand, today's GOP and all that you stand for, Rags. - Posted by Doctor Mengele at December 13, 2013 11:10 AM

Pope Tells America: Time to Reject Abortion and Accept Life at Every Stage

Pope Tells America: Time to Reject Abortion and Accept Life at Every Stage

Hmm, now which does he and the Catholic Church value more? Economics or LIFE? Upon which does he and the Catholic Church place greater importance?

I'm sorry you're so ignorant.

Wow! The Pope dude is saying the government should "guarantee people's fundamental rights, including access to healthcare".- Posted by MikeBoyScout at December 13, 2013 11:40 AM

Pope calls on Americas to accept life 'in every stage,' from womb to tomb

Pope calls on Americas to accept life 'in every stage,' from womb to tomb

Hmm, now which does he and the Catholic Church value more? Health insurance or LIFE? Upon which does he and the Catholic Church place greater importance?

I'm sorry you're so ignorant.

And isn't it interesting how quickly you veered from the facts and statistics of the utter failure of your President Incompetent, your Obamacare, the hated bastard cousin of Hillarycare (of which we will gleefully remind voters should she be dumb enough to run in 2016), your party and your ideology. Hmm, why is that?

Merry shadenfreude, loud lefty's! Thanks again.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on December 13, 2013 09:57 PM
78. Madam Pelosi claims that the Tea Party has hijacked the Republican Porty. To her - I respond - back at ya' her ilk - the hater Progressive aka the Marsists have hijacked the Democrat Party.

Posted by: KDS on December 13, 2013 10:55 PM
80. Tensor's Mommy is a "Teabagger," he just won't admit it.

I happily claim total ignorance of my mother's intimate life. :-)

Seriously, you constantly affect an air of smug intellectual superiority. What's it like to have your core political support come from persons so utterly lacking in basic awareness they actually called themselves (!) Teabaggers"?

The first big day for this movement was Tax Day, April 15. And organizers had a gimmick. They asked people to send a tea bag to the Oval Office. One of the exhortations was "Tea Bag the Fools in D.C." A protester was spotted with a sign saying, "Tea Bag the Liberal Dems Before They Tea Bag You." So, conservatives started it: started with this terminology. But others ran with it and ran with it.

Well, I guess you go to the elections with the Teabaggers you have, not the erudite and careful electorate your vanity has cruelly tricked you into believing you deserve.

Posted by: tensor on December 13, 2013 11:54 PM