December 10, 2012
Many People, Mostly Leftists, Fell For The Fox/Lower IQ Hoax

Here's the story, in case you missed it.

A fake study claiming conservative viewers of FOX News were significantly dumber than conservatives who didn't watch FOX News spread through the internet like wildfire, even though the briefest of attention to the details in this glorified press release should have raised suspicion.  The pr guru behind the hoax -- our term, not his -- said he was surprised by how quickly and broadly the item spread but not by how easily its claims went unquestioned.

I saw the story and knew, instantly, that it was fake.

Why didn't others?  Because most have had less experience than I have had in analyzing this kind of data — and because, for many leftists, the story was one they wanted to believe because it reflected badly on Fox viewers.

And I think that last has a lesson for all of us, left, right, or center.  If we see a story we really, really want to believe, then we should treat that story with more skepticism than usual.  (I try to do that when I write my posts, but am sure that I fail from time to time.)

Cross posted at Jim Miller on Politics.

(There are studies of the differences in knowledge between Democrats and Republicans and between conservatives and liberals.  In general, these studies find that Republicans and conservatives have a small edge in knowledge over their leftist counterparts.  Here's a recent example from Pew.

What strikes me most about that simple test — and similar attempts to test voters' knowledge — is not the small edge for Republicans, but how poorly informed many citizens of both parties are.

Some on the left will wonder about those results, given the Democratic edge in academia.  For an explanation, they should look up one of my posts on the "J-curve".)

Posted by Jim Miller at December 10, 2012 01:08 PM | Email This
Comments
1. IQ has never meant anything, because "intelligent" and "smart" are two different things. It's very possible for intelligent people to be dumb.

Posted by: Roger Rabbit on December 10, 2012 01:22 PM
2. @1 case in point.

Posted by: Leftover on December 10, 2012 01:50 PM
3. "If we see a story we really, really want to believe, then we should treat that story with more skepticism than usual"

Great Line Jim!

So true for all sides. As with all things, "if it sounds too good to be true, it usually isn't true."

Examples:
1. Story Jim relates to
2. Obama Birther Conspiracy
3. 911 Truthers Conspiracy
4. Bigfoot or Loch Ness Monster (I know that may be stretching it, maybe they are true, but the guy in the made up suit with zipper shown isn't true).

Posted by: tc on December 10, 2012 02:20 PM
4. Remember the Tuscon shooting of Rep. Giffords and many others? Instantly the left assumed it was a Conservative who had shot her. They blamed the Tea Party movement and even held Gov. Palin responsible for the actions of the shooter. Everyone from friends of mine and very smart leftist political commentators jumped on board that this was the Tea Party's fault. Of course when the dust settled and the facts came out, he was an apolitical nut job.

Posted by: Drew S. on December 10, 2012 02:38 PM
5. The only thing I think that separates Liberals and Conservatives (current American terms...pick your own terms for time and place) is who would actual step over the line and kill a fellow group of humans on a mass scale. That is settled...Liberals do. So the "wild fire spreading" just keeps the embers aglow for the moment when the glorious funeral pyres can once and for all cleanse Gaia of anyone without the correct and proper thinking. (They get so frustrated when they think about how to get around the guns and bibles!...and the French Revolution thing when they started eating their own what if that happens! Oh....back to blogging)

Posted by: Col. Hogan on December 10, 2012 03:54 PM
6. "Fox News viewers are less informed than people who don't watch any news, according to a new poll from Fairleigh Dickinson University."

http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/

Anyone with an ounce of sense would know (as I did) that the liklihood of a researcher being able to access the actual IQ scores of people who watch Fox News and those who don'r would be zero.

However, the evidence still stands that viewers of Fox News are less informed than those who do not watch any news at all. By inference, one can say that Fox Viewers are being deliberately misinformed. This has been known since 2011.

If you don't know it, you must be a Fox Viewer. Nice attempt, however, to try finessing the argument away from the fact that Fox News is a right wing propaganda machine and not a good source of actual news of the real world.

Posted by: dorky dorkman on December 10, 2012 04:04 PM
7. @6 - you don't know what you are talking about as usual, because you seldom if ever watch Fox and just let the the pap that the leftwing smear machines come out with (even if they are proven to be laden with lies) form your views as they conform to your perverted political views.

Anyone who bought that study is plain dumb due to lack of discernment. MSNBC and CNN are close to be regressivist propaganda machines. Not saying that Fox viewers are generally above average intelligence - they are mostly within +/- standard deviation of average intelligence. Take a hike over to HA with Goldstein with Rabbit breath and spew your hate filled rants with your fellow low intellects.

Posted by: KDS on December 10, 2012 04:18 PM
8. KDS -- Fairleigh Dickinson University is rigorous about their polling standards and unless you can come up with a similarly peer reviewed study that has a different result, theirs still stands.

Academic studies still maintain that Fox News viewers like you are far more likely to be misinformed dumba#!es than people who don't watch any news at all.

Posted by: dorky dorkman on December 10, 2012 04:48 PM
9. 'Academic studies still maintain that Fox News viewers like you are far more likely to be misinformed dumba#!es than people who don't watch any news at all."

Those are the academic studies that fly along with the monkeys out of your a##hole.

Posted by: KDS on December 10, 2012 05:32 PM
10. The leftists are in control of the academic institutions, especially in the last 35 years or since the Department of Education was initiated. Since then, American students, which were in the top ten for math and science for developed nations have dipped significantly to 28th to 30th for developed nations in those fields. Bill Ayers should get credit for part of this abysmal performance, but leftists don't care that he and others have mucked up the educational system.

The new way of teaching math instituted by the left has been a dismal failure. Furthermore, we have a president who admittedly stopped paying attention to math in the 7th Grade - he stated to Letterman on the Tonight Show last month. That is one thing he said that I can believe - based on his poor math skills displayed in his campaign rhetoric. The left uses him as a role model ?

No wonder this country has deteriorated as nearly half of the electorate don't think studying math is cool enough for them and believe that Al Gore is a reliable source in science. These embrace the academics that publish worthless trash studies about Fox News, who should really study proctology and do a self-rectal exam after they pull their heads out...(/sarc)


Posted by: KDS on December 10, 2012 05:56 PM
11. NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, NPR, MSNBC, etc., etc. all support the progressive movement. They're in the tank for the Democrats and anything far left. When it comes to TV, the only opposing voice against them is Fox News. Why is it that the usual suspects want Fox to be put off the air? Isn't it enough to have the vast majority of TV news channels supporting your world view, usual suspects? Can't Republicans, conservatives and Libertarians have at least one TV channel that somewhat supports their divergent views? Does it always have to be your way with no room for dissenting voices?

Posted by: Politically Incorrect on December 10, 2012 06:46 PM
12. Anders Breivik is one of yours.

Posted by: SmoledMan on December 10, 2012 08:52 PM
13. @2 Trust me, I feel HONORED to be insulted by your ilk.

Posted by: Roger Rabbit on December 10, 2012 08:58 PM
14. @5 See #12.

Posted by: Roger Rabbit on December 10, 2012 09:01 PM
15. I'm curious as to why the title of this post claims that "Mostly Leftists," were victims of the hoax. We can understand why this hoax might have a shallow appeal -- as noted above, viewers of Fox News have consistently shown a greater ignorance than other populations -- but ignorance and intelligence are two different traits. The "story" link has the following quick rundown of sites which linked to the claimed study:

Daily Kos original post on press release.

Daily Kos questions validity of study three hours later but says FOX News viewers are suckers anyway and claims other studies confirm the main point it makes.

Yahoo News posting of press release on its news site.

RSN/Reader Supported News reposts the press release in whole and lists PRWeb as the writer.

Democratic Underground reposts the study.

FreeRepublic posted a thread on the press release and then pulled it once suspicions were raised.

Reddit posted a link to a story on the press release but the comments all questioned its validity.

It's hard to see from where the "Mostly Leftists" part of this headline originated.

Posted by: tensor on December 10, 2012 10:06 PM
16. @1 Roger Rabbit Droppings- Hilarious coming from some nut hanging out at Goldy's waste treatment plant 24/7. Liberal's, by and large, thrive on hatred of those that don't think like them- which is why they watch MSNBC exclusively. Misery loves company, afterall.

Posted by: Rick D. on December 10, 2012 11:50 PM
17. Rick D. @16:

I won't presume to speak for other "liberal's," but I watch Pox News all the time, and I come here daily to read the commentary and the comments, so as to gain some insight into the mindset of my political opponents. I do so because I get so much good rhetorical ammo to use against you.

Posted by: ivan on December 11, 2012 06:01 AM
18. Does a Member of the King County Democrats central committee need to search "pox " news for "ammo" to use against people who hold different political views? It would appear that Democrats of the Ivan variety have issues of anger management and weight control.

Posted by: Smokie on December 11, 2012 06:40 AM
19. KDS -- To give you a more recent example, the Romney campaign was not served well by the fake information provided to it by Dick Morris.

Neither were Fox viewers served well by the misinformation served up by the likes of Karl Rove. Who knew that Obama was more likely to win the presidency than than Romney?

Everyone except Fox viewers.

Posted by: dorky dorkman on December 11, 2012 06:58 AM
20. Mr. Incorrect: Your premises are BS. This has been explained to you many times over.

You will make a lot of noise, but with incorrect information, you won't get anywhere. It will be another forty years before a generation comes along that will not instantly recognize your rubbish for what it is.

All Libertarianism is is a philosophical footstool for the rich to convince the likes of you and your fellow consrvatives of the correctness of 1% of the people in owning and controlling most of the wealth.

Posted by: dorky dorkman on December 11, 2012 08:09 AM
21. @19 & 20 Cherry picking. If you paid attention, you would know that Morris and Rove have a very diminished role on Fox News. They both called the presidential collection incorrectly. I think that is a good thing. The Romney campaign did a poor job of messaging and were outgunned in social media by more than 8:1.

How come you have not criticize MSNBC for anything they say that is inaccurate or not credible ? They play the race card frequently (by many of whom are racists themselves), mainly because they cannot win the argument any other way and display fascist propaganda on most every show. I'd like to see a post devoted to MSNBC's sharply politically skewed reporting.

"All Libertarianism is is a philosophical footstool for the rich to convince the likes of you and your fellow consrvatives of the correctness of 1% of the people in owning and controlling most of the wealth"

Many of the 1% are Democrats - did you know that ? I would love to see Warren Buffet pay more taxes, but he just talks and doubt if he would do that on his own unless a law were passed. Those tax loopholes that he benefits by to put his money in foreign bank accounts should be closed, but the politicians in both parties would never do that for fear of losing financial support.

Provide the source of your quote - or did you also pull that out of the location of your anatomy from where monkeys fly out ?.

Posted by: KDS on December 11, 2012 10:01 AM
22. KDS, fascism and racism. Serious charges and yet no evidence is presented.

"fascist propaganda"

Please provide a few examples of "fascist propaganda" that you've seen being presented on MSNBC?

"many of whom are racists"

Would you please identify some of the racists on MSNBC and what they do or say that you consider to be racist?

Posted by: Doctor Steve on December 11, 2012 10:21 AM
23. KDS -- You are presenting a false equivalence between Fox News and MSNBC. They are not 'just the same' only with different points of view. MSNBC presents factual information in a liberal context. Fox presents twisted information designed to make the viewer angry and outraged -- not informed and competent.

"The facts are fixed around the policy" is a statement that describes the right wing mindset. The very phrse 'right thinking' (that conservatives often describe themselves as being) is an unintentional admission that you'd rather hear only statements that feed your preconceptions rather than factual information that does not).

Lincoln's quote: "You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time (this is your category), but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

Posted by: dorky dorkman on December 11, 2012 12:44 PM
24. Dork: There is one fundamental difference between Fox and MSNBC that you forgot to mention. Hardly anyone actually watches MSNBC.

Posted by: katomar on December 11, 2012 03:03 PM
25. Katomar -- There is one fundamental difference between Fox and internet porn that YOU forgot to mention. Hardly anyone south of the Mason-Dixon line actually watches Fox.

Posted by: dorky dorkman on December 11, 2012 04:58 PM
26. @25 - That would be very doubtful - you misspoke again. A majority of those who live south of the Mason-Dixon Line are conservative.

Lincoln's quote: "You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time (this is your category), but you can't fool all of the people all of the time."

Posted by dorky dorkman at December 11, 2012 12:44 PM

LMAO !! Keep drinking that stupid kool-aid and you aren't fooling us straight talkers here one f'in bit !! FYI - In that quote, Lincoln was speaking of leftist regressives.

Posted by: KDS on December 11, 2012 05:52 PM
27. Here's one example form one host on MSNBC -

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/03/13/Al%20Sharpton%20Slut-Gate

Other examples may be forthcoming - if you want more.
There's other hosts that fall into that category like Ed Schultz, Chris Matthews, O'Donnell and other radical leftist hosts.

I can also point out a few bad apples Fox that show up on various programs.

Fox appeals to the moderates and the right and MSNBC and CNN appeals to the leftists which will remain a constant.

Posted by: KDS on December 11, 2012 06:12 PM
28. I used to disdain the birthers as conspiracy nuts. However, it came out this year that Obama's literary agent for his first book said in a marketing brochure that Obama was born in Kenya.

The agent said that it was a mistake. However: (1) The document was uncorrected for over a decade; (2) Obama was the most likely source for his literary agent; and (3)It's hard to believe that a narcissist like Obama wouldn't check his marketing literature.

Thus, while the birthers are still wrong, their ranks now include an agent acting on Obama's behalf.

Posted by: LesLein on December 11, 2012 06:27 PM
29. Fox [news] appeals to the moderates and the right

...and the sane, but yes, you're right.

MSNBC...appeals to the leftists

Actually it appeals to the Far, Far leftists. The types you see driving down I-5 with 15-20 bumper stickers showing how big of a liberal they are. I believe the number of bumper stickers on your vehicle show a direct correlation with how severily imbalanced you are mentally, but that's just one man's opinion.

Posted by: Rick D. on December 11, 2012 06:30 PM
30. @31 - Is that a promise or a threat ??

@30 - True story.

for conservatives. its all about messaging effectively and not letting the leftists knock you off stride with their hate-mongering and bullying tactics. Case and point - the union thugs (far left) protesting in Michigan today trying to bully everyone else who does not support their control.

The unions had it coming from the Michigan State government and no one deserves to be oppressed by the unions, like they have been doing for the last 50 years ! (Public Sector including teachers unions are the most notorious). Unions are necessary in the private sector, but they should not require mandatory contributions to elect Democrats against their members will.

Steve, MBS and confirmed leftists - you are on the wrong and losing side here and this isn't over by a long ways - Power to the people !

Posted by: KDS on December 11, 2012 06:57 PM
31. @29 Rick D. - true story. (update)

Posted by: KDS on December 11, 2012 07:16 PM
32. "Fox News viewers are less informed than people who don't watch any news, according to a new poll from Fairleigh Dickinson University."

http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/

I haven't seen any one of you present a peer reviewed study that refutes this. This was from comment #6.

I guess you are all too busy 'messaging' to think straight.

Posted by: dorky dorkman on December 11, 2012 07:36 PM
33. #32,

Why bother trying to refute it? It is a survey, a POLL. Not some scientific study. A bunch of people were asked their OPINION. No breakdown of the demographics of the people who answered, nor a list of what was asked. A conclusion that has no basis in fact.

That you still want to beat this dead horse of Fox News being for dumb people shows just how desperate you are in attempting to validate your crumbling world view. You really are amusing in your flailing, wanting something to be true when it is patently and unequivocally false.

Posted by: FurryGuy on December 11, 2012 08:00 PM
34. FurryGuy -- This was not an opinion poll. You are deluded if you think it was not scientific.

http://publicmind.fdu.edu/2011/knowless/

Why don't you read it?

Posted by: dorky dorkman on December 11, 2012 09:27 PM
35. Hilarious!! Dork pointing out a make believe study conducted by a University nobody's ever heard of. Man, are there are some gullible dolts in this world or what?

Posted by: Rick D. on December 11, 2012 09:50 PM
36. The results of that study by Fairleigh-Dickinson are pointless. It only shows that MSNBC viewers recognize political candidates/names- primarily because they are obsessed with bashing Republicans with their false narratives.

It is a poll, but asked few if any real questions requiring critical thinking - something that leftist find to be a foreign concept and most consider it insulting. The origins of this attitude came being indoctrinated in by the comrade teachers @ inner-city pubic schools like Joanie aka T-S. Horsesa$$.org would be more interested in this kind of trivial stuff. Why do you neglect your people, Dork ?

Posted by: KDS on December 11, 2012 10:03 PM
37. There are plenty of stupid Republican's, just look at Obama Birthers and members of the Tea Party.

Posted by: Cato on December 12, 2012 10:32 AM
38. Fairleigh Dickinson University is a highlyrespected university. Many of its graduates go into the foreign service.

This survey by Fairleigh Dickinson University was conducted by telephone from Oct. 17, 2011, through Oct. 23, 2011, using a randomly selected sample of 612 resident adults statewide. The margin of error for a sample of 612 randomly selected respondents is +/- 3.5 percentage points. PublicMind interviews are conducted with professionally trained interviewers using a CATI (Computer Assisted Telephone Interviewing) system. Random selection is achieved by computerized random-digit dialing.

The total combined sample is mathematically weighted to match known demographics of age, race and gender.

Following are the questions that were asked. Needless to say, Fox viewers turned out to be the dummies:

K1: Americans now have more ways than ever before to get their news about politics and world affairs. I'm
going to read you a list of news sources. As I read the list, just say "yes" if you got news from that source any
time in the past week.

K2: These days, there is more going on in politics and the world than anyone can keep track of. We'd like to
ask about a few things that have been in the news recently, to see how well the news media has been doing its
job. To the best of your knowledge, have the opposition groups protesting in Egypt been successful in
bringing down the regime there?

K3: How about the opposition groups in Syria? Have they been successful in bringing down the regime there?

K5: A large group of protestors has been camped out on Wall Street for the last couple of weeks. To the best
of your knowledge, are these protestors mostly Republicans or Democrats?

K6: Right now, which candidate seems to be leading in the polls
for Republican Presidential nomination in 2012?

Sample Characteristics (%)
Gender
Male 50
Female 50
Age
18‐29 17
30‐44 28
45‐59 28
60+ 26
Ref. 2
White 63
Black 14
Hispanic or Latino 11
Asian 6
Other/ref. 6
Party ID
Dem. + lean Dem. 43
ind. + unsure + ref. 23
Rep. + lean Rep. 34

Posted by: dorky dorkman on December 12, 2012 11:45 AM
39. So what, who cares ?

Posted by: KDS on December 12, 2012 04:45 PM
40. There are plenty of stupid Republican's, just look at...members of the Tea Party.~ cato @ 37

Actually, the definition of stupidity is to live ones life far beyond what they earn/make and can reasonably sustain. i.e. spending more than you take in on a consistently increasing basis. The same can be said for a government. That would make this president and the wildly spending politicians in the democrat party (and those who support them) the "stupid" one's, and not those who are protesting their reckless and irresponsibile spending.

It's simple. Stupid is as stupid does.

Posted by: Rick D. on December 12, 2012 06:00 PM
41. Today's Democrats do not care about math. They care about accumulating power - any way they can- Constitution and laws be damned !

Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely
- Lord Acton

Posted by: KDS on December 12, 2012 07:38 PM
42. Rick D says -- "Actually, the definition of stupidity is to live ones life far beyond what they earn/make and can reasonably sustain. i.e. spending more than you take in on a consistently increasing basis."

This is as disingenuous as it gets. Why do you keep nagging Democrats about things that the Republicans have done?

A fair comparison would be that Republicans are like an alcoholic parent who breaks their child's piggybank to buy more booze (war profiteering like Dick Cheney and Halliburton), and then yells at the kid for not being thrifty.

What a jerk you are.

Posted by: dorky dorkman on December 13, 2012 12:09 PM
43. "Ed Schultz, Chris Matthews, O'Donnell and other radical leftist hosts."

This is your proof of fascism? You rattle off some names and that's proof? No, it's only proof that you're an idiot, even dumber than RickyD.

Posted by: Doctor Steve on December 13, 2012 01:06 PM
44. No, you imbecile, it was the link that you missed showing Al Sharpton- stevie the self-proclaimed christian with forked tongue libtard...

There are a number of others showing the others and these can be shown. Keep digging your hole.. As usual you have no case !!

Posted by: KDS on December 13, 2012 04:08 PM
45. This survey by Fairleigh Dickinson University was conducted by telephone from Oct. 17, 2011, through Oct. 23, 2011, using a randomly selected sample of 612 resident adults statewide.

Dorky - I do not answer any 1-8?? numbers as they are totally useless!! So the Fairleigh selection of their phone calls are very potentially useless!!! (BTW - My friends also do not answer 1-8?? phone calls!!)

Posted by: Timman on December 13, 2012 05:38 PM
46. You stupid bastard, you started this by accusing people on the left of being fascists. You mindless fool, all I did was ask you for proof and all you can come up with is call me names. You obviously have no clue what fascism means. For you, fascism is just something you pull from your ass when you're having a hissy fit.

Posted by: Doctor Steve on December 13, 2012 06:47 PM
47. Please skip the name calling -- all of you.

It's boring and its unproductive.

And if those aren't enough reasons to skip the name calling, try this one: Many people -- me, for instance -- think that name calling is often a tacit admission of defeat. A person who is losing on the substance will often resort to name calling, as I've seen everywhere from an elementary playground to a academic seminar.

Posted by: Jim Miller on December 13, 2012 07:05 PM
48. Jim - To put more teeth in your message, you might consider banning @46 to get rid of the toxic and immature rants and ad hominems..

It is clear to me (and probably others) that @46 has a considerable emotional problem and should seek professional help.

and if this means goodbye here, so be it !

Posted by: KDS on December 13, 2012 07:15 PM
49. Black, white or whatever your shade of color, there should be a consensus that it's insane to continue on our present course of spending. Unfortunatley for us at this time (and given the recent election results), we have too many low-information voter's making the decisions on this country's fiscal future, aided by a complicit media that no longer reports the "news", but only that which reinforces their 'views'.

Posted by: Rick D. on December 13, 2012 11:22 PM
50. @47 No problem. I entered this @22 with no name-calling, even using the word "please" a couple of times, inquiring about people being called radical leftist fascists by one of your right-wing readers. I wanted to know what that meant, Jim. Did he get that from you? Do you know what it means?

Geez, it looks like somebody @48 didn't get your message.

Posted by: Doctor Steve on December 14, 2012 09:41 AM
51. If I go back and read your previous posts, we will see that @50 is not telling the truth. I provided proof of an example, he chose to ignore it and went into a narcissistic rant. Here is proof below;

My original response to @22 that prompted @43-
"http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/03/13/Al%20Sharpton%20Slut-Gate

Other examples may be forthcoming - if you want more.
There's other hosts that fall into that category like Ed Schultz, Chris Matthews, O'Donnell and other radical leftist hosts.

I can also point out a few bad apples Fox that show up on various programs.

Fox appeals to the moderates and the right and MSNBC and CNN appeals to the leftists which will remain a constant."

Here is @43 -
This is your proof of fascism? You rattle off some names and that's proof? No, it's only proof that you're an idiot, even dumber than RickyD.

Posted by Doctor Steve at December 13, 2012 01:06 PM

To most others, I am sure this is petty poop. Again, Jim has the power to control it if he wants by banning folks and sometimes thats the only way to get through and promote a better environment and less of a detriment to would be contributors. As said before, if you choose to ban me for sticking to my principles and pushing back against misinformation (mainly leftwing), then so be it !

Posted by: KDS on December 14, 2012 11:56 AM
52. No wonder it's the same people who come to this site...could have had a lively discussion about gun control in the aftermath of today's shootings but instead we have 3 day old post by Jim Miller whining about how Patty Murry doesn't like him.

This site blows!

Posted by: Cato on December 14, 2012 03:54 PM
53. Then why don't you blow out of here then, since you are unwilling to contribute anything of a positive nature. Look at yourself in the mirror before you decide to ridicule someone other than yourself..

There's Horsea$$.org if you want to partake in discussions pertaining to gun control. My take- a few loopholes may need to be closed in laws pertaining to purchase at gun shows to have a more comprehensive background check - sure. However, to think that;law-bidding citizens should be disarmed, while criminals and psychopaths keep on obtaining arms through the black market is brain-dead and well beyond STUPID !

Posted by: KDS on December 14, 2012 04:40 PM
54. @53 No problem. If the habitues of this site are uncomfortable with discussing our nation's gun policies in the aftermath of today's Connecticut atrocity, the HorsesAss regulars have no such inhibitions and you can find an open and honest discussion of this issue on that site, trust me on this.

Posted by: Roger Rabbit on December 14, 2012 05:10 PM
55. No problem having an open and honest discussion on the 2nd Amendment here. All someone has to do is post the topic.

I/We are not uncomfortable with the 2nd amendment - too often gun policies fly in the face of the 2nd Amendment and that does create discomfort and righteous concern...

Posted by: KDS on December 14, 2012 05:16 PM
56. re KDS -- "...righteous concern..."

You overblown a#!wipe.

Nobody wants your gun. We just don't want to supply them to crazy people.

You are the best protection that Wayne LaPierre has for his cashflow.

Posted by: red hiney monkey on December 14, 2012 05:43 PM
57. @56 Rhesus monkeys are flying out of a#$ as are your brains. Now go crawl back under your rock now. Leave it to a left-wing regressive to politicize this reprehensible act. Your taste is in your mouth...

You have a problem with righteous concern - tough..

To repeat - My take- a few loopholes may need to be closed in laws pertaining to purchase at gun shows to have a more comprehensive background check - sure. However, to think that;law-bidding citizens should be disarmed, while criminals and psychopaths keep on obtaining arms through the black market is brain-dead and well beyond STUPID !

Posted by: KDS on December 14, 2012 05:54 PM
58. http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2012/05/24/fox-news-viewers-least-informed-hardly/

A good article!!

Posted by: Timman_ on December 14, 2012 08:25 PM
59. @58 - You dared to implode the false narrative of the leftwing regressives about Fox News ! (watch the cockroaches scatter)

Posted by: KDS on December 14, 2012 10:06 PM
60. "cockroaches"

Say, Jim, just to clarify, does that qualify as name-calling or is that only when I call out someone out on your side for saying something really stupid.

Posted by: Doctor Steve on December 15, 2012 06:40 AM
61. KDS -- "However, to think that;law-bidding citizens should be disarmed, while criminals and psychopaths keep on obtaining arms through the black market is brain-dead and well beyond STUPID !"

Are you talking to me? Because there is a world of difference between saying crazy people should not have guns and disarming everyone.

Posted by: red hiney monkey on December 15, 2012 07:47 AM
62. @60 Silly claim - you have no case !! If that bothers you, don't go away angry, just go away !!


Posted by: KDS on December 15, 2012 08:14 AM
63. Here's where Patty Murray's twisted logic originates from - she has always been a good little soldier for Democrat presidents, no matter if they are smoking crack - like this pres. apparently is when he says stuff as patently absurd and ludicrous as this;

"President Barack Obama, who supports raising taxes and passed Obamacare, told Noticias Univision 23 on Thursday he thinks he would be considered a "moderate Republican" in the 1980s because of his economic policies.

When a reporter from the Spanish-language station in Miami asked Obama what he thought about Cuban-Americans and some Venezuelans who believe that "you favor a socialist model for our country," Obama said:
"The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican."

(except for the fact his spending is almost 10 times greater than when Reagan was president, when the population has grown by slightly over 25%)

(More commentary from others..)
As The Hill noted, Cuban-Americans and Venezuelans are not the only ones concerned about Obama's socialist-leanings. Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin said "Obama's socialist policies" will "destroy America's working class" on an appearance on Fox News two weeks ago.

To counter these claims, Obama insisted he did not think "government can solve every problem" and believed in a tax system "that is fair," which is his way of saying the wealthy in America are not paying enough taxes.

"I do believe that it makes sense that everyone in America, as rich as this country is, shouldn't go bankrupt because someone gets sick, so the things I believe in are essentially the same things your viewers believe in," Obama said.

(Just talk as he knows people want to hear that - no evidence that he really believes that, his actions contradict this) -- crack can do that to one's imagination_)

During the 1980s, Republican President Ronald Reagan cut the top marginal tax rate to 28%, streamlined regulations and unleashed economic growth that helped the United States defeat the communist Soviet Union.

Obama, on the other hand, passed bailouts, stimulus programs, Obamacare and is advocating for more tax increases even as the unemployment rate is nowhere near the 5.6% Obama promised it would be if his government programs were enacted.

(facts get in the way - those voted for this get the crap sandwich for government they deserve).

Posted by: KDS on December 15, 2012 10:16 AM
64. Believe it or not, I found a Pew (yes, that Pew) study that found that Republicans are slightly more informed about things politically than Democrats.

Huh.

Posted by: Oscarphone on December 15, 2012 01:45 PM
65. When someone gets into calling people radical leftist fascist cockroaches as KDS did in this thread, I'd say that's probably crossed the line and should be considered eliminationist rhetoric. Don't you think? After all, what else would one do with a radical coackroack other than exterminate it? Unfortunate territory for KDS to inhabit, obviously, especially given recent tragic events.

Posted by: Doctor Sreve on December 15, 2012 07:23 PM
66. @40 It's nice to preach to others about "living within their means," but that may not be a realistic option for a single mother who has to support her family by working for employers who pay less than a living wage and offer only part-time hours (which rotate so the employee can't hold a second job) so he doesn't have to provide benefits. Sanctimonious preachiness isn't pretty, Ricky. It so happens I have a debt-free lifestyle and a six-figure retirement income, and I got there by living beneath my means for an entire lifetime, but that single mom is working harder than I am right now and I would never dream of shoving my good fortune down her throat. Rather, I choose to support public policies that will make her life a little easier and a little more rewarding, because she deserves that.

Posted by: Roger Rabbit on December 15, 2012 09:30 PM
67. @65 - It just occurred that the natural response is for cockroaches to scatter and scurry away from light (of the truth) and stevie makes a wonderful job of emulating a cockroach.

If this teachable moment comment gets me banned from this post, then so be it !

Posted by: KDS on December 16, 2012 10:13 AM
68. As far as I'm concerned, it's commies to my left and fascists to my right and I don't cotton to either one of them. My dear KDS seems to be gravitating towards the concept of commie-fascists and, to him, at least, they seem to be everywhere. In fact, I'm apparently one of them. Kind of like a plague of zombies, vampires or something, only with bumper stickers. I have to admit that I have a sticker on my pickup that supports the police and yet none on my car, but that's hardly evidence of anything. So I'm not truly certain if KDS is unhinged or if he's onto something, like being the only one who can see dead people.

I bet we could get to the bottom of this rather quickly if KDS would offer up his definition of fascism. I know that this commie-fascist would put money on it being something really silly, the stuff of an unhinged mind desperately throwing every nasty label he can think of at the hundreds of millions of Americans who aren't similarly unhinged.

Posted by: Doctor Steve on December 17, 2012 09:45 AM
69. For the benefit of those who read SP, here it is; Where does MSNBC or any other network fall in here ? You be the judge, but if you make accusations, support it with specific examples or you will be seen as unhinged. (Note: I already have shown my example of fascism on MSNBC in @22 by Al Sharpton)

Centralized government is synonomous with fascism (see below)

Definition of FASCISM

1
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2
: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
-- fas·cist noun or adjective often capitalized
-- fas·cis·tic adjective often capitalized
-- fas·cis·ti·cal·ly adverb often capitalized
See fascism defined for English-language learners »
See fascism defined for kids »
Examples of FASCISM

the rise of Fascism in Europe before World War II
From the first hours of Hitler's invasion of the Soviet Union, the propagandists on both sides of the conflict portrayed the struggle in stark, Manichaean language. The totalitarian nature of both regimes made this inevitable. On one side stood Hitler, fascism, the myth of German supremacy; on the other side stood Stalin, communism, and the international proletarian revolution. --Anne Applebaum, New York Review of Books, 25 Oct. 2007
[+]more
Origin of FASCISM

Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
First Known Use: 1921
Other Government and Politics Terms

agent provocateur, agitprop, autarky, cabal, egalitarianism, federalism, hegemony, plenipotentiary, popular sovereignty, socialism
Rhymes with FASCISM

abysm, ageism, autism, baalism, baptism, Birchism, bossism, bruxism, Buddhism, casteism, centrism, charism, Chartism, classism, cubism, cu...
[+]more
fascism noun (Concise Encyclopedia)
Philosophy of government that stresses the primacy and glory of the state, unquestioning obedience to its leader, subordination of the individual will to the state's authority, and harsh suppression of dissent. Martial virtues are celebrated, while liberal and democratic values are disparaged. Fascism arose during the 1920s and '30s partly out of fear of the rising power of the working classes; it differed from contemporary communism (as practiced under Joseph Stalin) by its protection of business and landowning elites and its preservation of class systems. The leaders of the fascist governments of Italy (1922-43), Germany (1933-45), and Spain (1939-75)--Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler, and Francisco Franco--were portrayed to their publics as embodiments of the strength and resolve necessary to rescue their nations from political and economic chaos. Japanese fascists (1936-45) fostered belief in the uniqueness of the Japanese spirit and taught subordination to the state and personal sacrifice. See also totalitarianism; neofascism.

Posted by: KDS on December 17, 2012 11:37 AM
70. Sure let's talk guns.

Who's responsible for:

Increased hedonism? The Left.
Single parent families? The Left.
Divorce culture.  The Left.
Easy access to subsidy for the above @66? The Left.
Sitting duck, I mean gun free zones? The Left.
A lack of willingness to deal with the mentally ill? The Left.
Pill culture, and other psychiatry quackery that sedates rather than treats mentally unstable people? The Left.
Shoot 'em up movies, television and video games? The Left.
Drug culture and associated crime? The Left.
Sex culture? The Left.
Gangster / Ghetto culture? The Left,
Downplaying the significance of culture values? The Left.
The "we are all winners!" culture that engenders inadequacy in real losers? The Left.
Vehement attacks on religion, even as it provides a decent moral framework? The Left.
Vehement attacks on other by-in-large sensible moral frameworks such as Boy Scouts, etc.? The Left.
Sensationalism culture that glorifies and gives mouthpiece to crazed killers? The Media == The Left.
Welfare culture and lack of responsibility and diligence? The Left.
Grade inflation culture that leads to inadequacy and unpreparedness? The Left.
The put woman and girls forward even at the expense of boys and men culture that leaves many boys aimless?  The Left.
Federal top down failed educational initiatives that have left us woefully unprepared for world competition also leading to inadequacy? The Left.
The expectation of student loan debt, mortgage debt and credit card debt that encourages class warfare and insolvency both individually and culturally?  The Left.

Also @66, by running your mouth about a fantasy world where you work hard, while excusing the single moms and others who make those bad choices and listen to the garbage culture around them, you do far more damage than if you simply lived a hedonistic life and kept to yourself.   Your mouthpiece of excuse reaches far more and does more damage than your own personal actions of success help.

In other words @66  If you do not challenge everyone to live within their means and work as hard as you do to pull their own weight.  And yet you seek answers to the general decline and depravity of personal morays that lead to individuals capable of intense sloth and massacre; you only need search for the nearest mirror.

For more info on the myths of gun violence, see The Facts About Mass Shootings by John Fund in the WSJ.  And I'll also point out that Ted Bundy and Gary Ridgway killed far more people than Adam Lanza, they just did it one at a time.   It is easy to get swept up in the emotion of sensationalism, but that will not make guns go away, is not going to bring those kids back and definitely will not help fix the horrific culture of failure and dysfunction that the Left has dumped on us all for 40 years.

Posted by: Leftover on December 17, 2012 11:49 AM
71. @69 Well, it looks like there's no such thing as commie-fascist zombies after all. I have to say I'm relieved. And I'll be damned if the most extreme of you Republicans haven't become fascists. Little wonder you've tried so hard to label everybody but yourself as fascists. You're just trying to hide because you know that you can't be honest about it, not in America. We Real Americans don't like you fascist types, just like we don't like those damned commies.

Posted by: Doctor Steve on December 17, 2012 12:33 PM
72. > I'll also point out that Ted Bundy and Gary Ridgway killed far more people than Adam Lanza, they just did it one at a time.

Yes, how long did it take the GRTF led by (now) Rep. Reichert to find Ridgeway? Sheesh, that guy was on the suspect list for years.

Alas that was a different time and I suspect now the Govt. Agency of choice (oh hey, GOP hate's big Govt) would have a much easier time (using taxpayer money) to link the murderous individuals to the trail of dead bodies using info gathered from those two cases (Bundy I recall was especially talkative about his modus operandi).

Meanwhile while I support the second amendment and the belief that individuals have a right to possess firearms there is room for improvement in the laws we have. Seems like Obama wanted to stay out of the way with gun control, but after all the shootings in the prior week he will get dragged into this national debate whether he likes it or not.

Posted by: Cato on December 17, 2012 04:31 PM
73. @70 > Shoot 'em up movies, television and video games? The Left.

I thought you as a conservative would support the principles of the Free Market. You now saying we should abandon these principles when kids want to play video games? There are 500 million kids whom played any of the games the mass murder had in his collection, all of whom have never shot anyone outside of the confines of their TV screen. Much like the 500 million gun owners who have safely owned firearms and have never shot a fellow human being.

Posted by: Cato on December 17, 2012 04:40 PM
74. @71 - you merely attempted to shift the blame from the far left to the right. Focusing in only on Al Sharpton, how have I misjudged him ? If you don't answer that question, I'll ignore your post.

"We Real Americans don't like you fascist types, just like we don't like those damned commies."

That is akin to OJ Simpson talking and claiming he will find the murderer of Nicole Brown Simpson, or Obama claiming he is not an ideologue, where there are mountains of evidence to prove otherwise. The far left and the far right both have fascistic tendencies, of which you have an affinity for the former, Stevie.
You don't have a shred of evidence to demonstrate Republicans here have become fascists. You are welcome to try and prove some of your comments are not of a fascistic nature and I would have a very difficult time believing it based on your previous comments, which mentally imbalanced at times, whether you are in your 20's or 40's.

@73 - @70 is partly correct in his long list by including the left, but he left out the right, who were also responsible in a number of cases. It would be a good idea to limit the sale of violent video games, but that won't solve the problem. Parents need to be responsible is keeping them away from their young children. Mentally institutions should be reopened. If we could take the cost of maintaining 54K military personnel in Germany, sharply reduce this outlay and transfer to funding reopening of mental institutions, that would be way more beneficial to our culture, which has been off the rails for a long time.

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