September 06, 2012
Here's John Fund's latest
this time co-authored by Hans von Spakovsky, who gives us some inside information on the
I've skimmed parts of it, and found enough to recommend it, especially for those, like the
New York Times editorial board, who think that vote fraud is "mythical".
One thing I particularly like about the book is that the authors point out — as I have
— that the most common victims of vote fraud are minorities. Vote fraud
was one of the reasons that Artur Davis switched parties, by the way.
Posted by Jim Miller at September 06, 2012
04:23 PM | Email This
Darn Jim Miller! Hans von Spakovsky! Who is he again? I don't seem to be able to recall.
Lawyer can't recall his role in controversial policies
WASHINGTON -- Another former Justice Department lawyer went before Congress on Wednesday with few answers for his Democratic interrogators and a spotty memory.
Hans von Spakovsky, who's seeking a full six-year term on the Federal Election Commission, deflected questions about whether he undermined voting rights laws, saying, "I was not the decision maker in the front office of the Civil Rights Division."
Time and again during his confirmation hearing, he cited either the attorney-client privilege or a cloudy memory for his purported role in restricting minorities' voting rights.
Von Spakovsky couldn't remember blocking an investigation into complaints that a Minnesota Republican official was discriminating against Native American voters before the 2004 election
Oh, that's who Hans von Spakovsky is!
Glad to hear his memory is clearing up.
MBS committed a common logical fallacy, so I would have to fail his comment -- if I were grading it.
1. What is the fallacy?
2. Can you instruct MBS by showing him a similar logical fallacy targeting, for example, a president who was disbarred for perjury?
3. I've skimmed parts of it, and found enough to recommend it, especially for those, like the New York Times editorial board, who think that vote fraud is "mythical".
Sadly, Jim skimmed *over* the parts which contained the rock-solid evidence of voter fraud, so he could not quote any of that evidence here. Better luck next time!
... that the most common victims of vote fraud are minorities.
Felons are indeed a minority in our fair state, and several of them were cruelly disenfranchised awhile back, as the result of a Republican lawsuit alleging voter fraud.
Oh, wait, Jim might have been referring to Republican attempts to disenfranchise racial minorities. I'm sure the book has many examples, none of which Jim saw fit to cite.
What is the fallacy?
I'll take "Belief That Crying 'Fallacy!!1!' Constitutes A Counter-Argument" for 100, Alex.
4. It's great that people are concerned about preventing ineligible people from voting. I hope you have equal concern that no eligible voter is prevented from voting.
5. It's great that people are concerned about preventing ineligible people from voting.
Please provide evidence that our local Republicans approved of the deletion of felons' illegal votes from the totals in our Governor's election of 2004.
the Dim fascination with faux voter suppression is the most amazing Big Lie of recent years. Suddenly any warm body (or automatic pen for the mail ins) can vote. Instead of Dims defending their fraudulent intent (to goose the polls with illegals or double voters) they hide behind a false charge.
I think this is in Saul Alinsky's book
@4 - "I hope you have equal concern that no eligible voter is prevented from voting."
What is stopping them outside of voter ID, just as is required to purchase anything by check, to get into the Democratic or Republican Convention, among other things ? I have no concern about voters with faux names w/o ID's (i.e. Mickey Mouse, Daffy Duck, Prometheus, goofy, pluto, roger rabbit, etc.)
8. Why don't they just throw the ballots from people w/o ID into the provisional box with all the other unverified ballots, that would only be counted if the election were close enough where those ballots would make a difference in the outcome?
From Drudge today:
"Prosecutors said (Democrat) Hallum and his father, Kent, tasked Carter and Malone with obtaining absentee ballot applications for certain voters and assisting voters in filling out the ballots, "actually completing absentee ballots in some instances without regard to the voter's actual candidate choice."
The ballots were typically placed in unsealed envelopes before being mailed to local election officials.
"If a ballot contained a vote for Hudson Hallum's opponent, it was destroyed," prosecutors said in a bill of information filed with the court."
and this: http://weaselzippers.us/2012/09/06/mississippi-naacp-executive-given-jail-time-for-voter-fraud/
Yes, there certainly is vote fraud. And Fund is right to bring it to light. It doesn't matter how many times Democrats lie and pretend it doesn't happen. They know it does. And that it almost always seems to be Democrats that commit it. And above are two examples of absentee ballot vote fraud by Democrats.
We will not be silent. We will demand that our elections are clean, even if Democrats don't want them to be. Because grownups have to be the ones to point out problems with dirty election behavior and right the wrongs. And we will.
@KDS on September 6, 2012 10:10 PM,
"What is stopping them outside of ...?
Let's be very clear.
IF in the future the state of WA passed a law restricting and removing the right to vote from people who posted a comment on (un)SP on September 6, 2012 10:10 PM that would be completely legal under the US Constitution.
And although I disagree with you about nearly everything, and I'm damn sure you'd vote the wrong way for this country and its people every time, I'd fight just as hard and just as vociferously to protect and restore your right to vote KDS as I do against BS voter ID restrictions.
The reason is clear. IF we are to have a participatory democratic government the RIGHT to vote shall not be encumbered.
IF for some reason you think the risk of voter fraud in the future is something you want the government to prevent, then get out there and get the government to ensure every citizen has an ID. Build ID kiosks all over the nation in every corner and every hamlet. Unless and until your protections against potential violations ensure that EVERY citizen can vote, it does not pass the smell test.
12. I'd fight just as hard and just as vociferously to protect and restore your right to vote KDS as I do against BS voter ID restrictions.
Wonder why the DNC felt it necessary to have voter ID at their convention? Oh yeah, it made sense to do so. The Dem's don't want voter ID because they know the infinitesimal percentage of American's without an ID (or access to obtain one) is a bullshit strawman they can use to beat the GOP with, and loyal party (and disingenous) apparatchiks like Mike BS will come onto blogs and repeat it ad nauseum even though he knows it's BS. In the end, the common sense of the American people will approve voter ID, despite the faux outrage displayed by whiny dem's that understand the concerns, but don't care because it benefits their party.
Smoley @ 8:
You must be remembering the tactic used by King County Elections in 2004 to steal the governors election. How many illegal aliens has WA ST DOL registered since then?
"The reason is clear. IF we are to have a participatory democratic government the RIGHT to vote shall not be encumbered.
IF for some reason you think the risk of voter fraud in the future is something you want the government to prevent, then get out there and get the government to ensure every citizen has an ID."
MBS - You provided another red herring. I believe in trust but verify. This state has almost entirely vote by mail. That is even more reason to be vigilant about prevention of voter fraud, which is more likely to occur in vote by mail states. I have thought that Oregon probably has more voter fraud than here - how many times have they purged voter rolls and required all voters to reregister since it was passed in 1996 ? Illegal voters continue to accumulate as long as voter rolls are not scrubbed and re-registration occurs. BTW, this is done in Canada every 4 years, so why shouldn't our elections have as much integrity as theirs ?
I would defer your suggestion to Tim Eyman to get this on the ballot by referendum, as the State Legislature does not have the political will to pass such a bill, mainly because the Democrats would block it - it is against their DNA, as you have demonstrated in your opposition to a requirement that is less onerus than you give it credit of being. This requirement should not be 100% on the government either as you suggest - however they should facilitate the process and make it least costly, burdensome and efficient as possible. The rest of re-registration process would be on those who wish to vote !
15. After all the hullabaloo about minority disenfranchisement through photo ID requirements, I find it hilarious that photo ID was required to attend the DNC. It was also required to attend the NAACP recent convention. And as regards the Republican war on women, which convention was it that banned children, and therefore the mothers of small children? Why, the DNC! What incredible hypocrites!
Just a general question to throw out there. Even if we really concentrated on making sure everyone has a valid ID, two things would immediately pop-up. First, a certain crowd would go nuts about being 'registered' or some-such nonsense and would hang-up any proposal for a long time. Second, to make it fair, how would we agree on a manner of approving who should get an ID? My deceased great-grandfather never had a birth certificate (like most people in his county at the time) until he was in his 50's IIRC. I have no doubt that there are people alive today that never got a birth certificate or other proof of citizenship. What would they do?
Or use me as an example, I'm 32, I had to go to a couple offices to get a copy of my birth certificate to enlist because I didn't have one of my own, I gave the copy to the recruiter and I'm not certain I got it back (as in I don't know where it is now and that was the last time I saw it).
I'm curious just how many people that should be allowed to vote, and have been voting for possibly decades may not necessarily be able to prove such should we really try to control such.
I'm not saying we should ignore fraud, just trying to flesh out ideas of how to realistically go about doing this better and what problems would have to be addressed in order to make it happen.
17. Isn't mail in voting preferred by Dems...cuz they can hover over the shoulder of a union/teacher/welfare person and guide them in their vote?
18. Brian is correct. There are people who do not have (American) birth certificates. Take our president for instance....
19. If foreign invaders, dead people and cartoon characters tended to vote for the R's we'd have voter ID before the next election.
19...good one... yes, the Dem embrace of this issue has nothing to do w/ principle and everything to do with adding votes they legally otherwise would not get.
I must say, I still don't understand why they make me add postage....perhaps they accept no stamp mail from Dem neighborhoods; and only demand legal/stamped mail from the more GOP neighborhoods...
With all the free stuff floating around in "Dim neighborhoods" I'm certain we're buying their stamps too. Dimocrat politicians, of course, have offered up all that free stuff in exchange for their votes...and their constitutional liberties.
R's are at a disadvantage for gathering illegal voters because they don't offer to give them enough free stuff. The corruption in DC is among the highest in the world if you consider the quantity.
The Democrat party has turned the Constitution on its head and shredded a good deal of it while the Republicans have allowed this to move forward and have not acted to overturn the Democrats with an Executive order or congressional repeal. Political will to rejuvenate the Constitution is not enough to bring action and is at least several elections away, but Obamacare would have to be repealed and replaced if this is to ever occur.
Sadly, there are almost half of the voters who are incapable of critical thinking and are corrupted beyond caring. Mike BS, scottd, tc,tensor are among them. They cannot denigrate their candidate about the numerous wrongdoings of this President, but know how to put forth strawmen arguments, few of which hold up to vigilant scrutiny.
They are only parroting what the MSM or leftwing blogs have spoon fed them, which is propaganda and lies and further refuse to listen to the opposing views. That shows that are willingly incapable of critical thinking about this election. Their contrarian comments can best be answered by asking why they overlooked the clear wrongdoings of Obama after picking apart their strawmen. It is because they are lemmings and have few original thoughts. This is being and this is being shown on a national level.
Unfortunately, most of us here are more effective at answering charges than the Romney/Ryan campaign appear to be. They are deficient at coherently discussing specifics of how they plan to improve the economy in a clear and concise manner. Why is this ? The incumbent's campaign has no problem putting out false information, propaganda and obfuscating under the guise of bolstering their cause. Of course, they have problems with the basic truth and the facts, but are seldom called on it by the press, reporters, and in numerous cases by the Romney/Ryan campaigh. Too much time spent defending their positions and pointing out what this regime has done to hurt the economy and in some cases our freedoms but not enough time presenting their alternatives and responding to the propaganda from the current regime (which is done more effectively on this blog-sadly). Therein sums up this campaign to date.
24. Oh gee Look!! Another Dem bites the dust due to voter fraud.
25. And Whoops!! Another Dem on Dem fraud accusation.
26. And It looks like the Dems are the ones trying to suppress votes.
27. They cannot denigrate their candidate about the numerous wrongdoings of this President, but know how to put forth strawmen arguments, few of which hold up to vigilant scrutiny.
Yes, that's right! Emulate Jim by not citing ay evidence to support your claims! That's how we do commentary at Sound Politics!
I think you should apply for posting privileges. The worst they can say in refusing is that you're over-qualified.
"(tensor,mikebs) They cannot denigrate their candidate (Obama) about his numerous wrongdoings, but know how to put forth strawmen arguments, few of which hold up to vigilant scrutiny."
"Yes, that's right! Emulate Jim by not citing ay evidence to support your claims! That's how we do commentary at Sound Politics!"
@27 - Here's just one of a litany of claims - nearly every time he opens his piehole. He criticized Romney's math for cutting the deficit, when he could not support his claims - not one ! If anyone's math is suspect, it is Obama - who has said there are 57 states (Muslim but not United) without correcting it way back in 2008 and the bulls**t about cutting costs in Obamacare.
You should be required to have posting privileges for posting so many distortions - do you want examples ? I have one right here;
"Felons are indeed a minority in our fair state, and several of them were cruelly disenfranchised awhile back, as the result of a Republican lawsuit alleging voter fraud."
Cruelly disenfranchised - LMAO ! typical libtard comment.
The lawsuit was based on almost 2,000 more ballots than registrations in King County alone. Sharkansky uncovered this discrepancy. The strategy was ill conceived by the GOP, who should have eliminated the fraudulent votes during the registration process.
29. "Look Who's Counting" is longer than I would have expected. Detailing voter fraud by Mitt Romney and Ann Coulter is a magazine article, 700 words tops.