March 26, 2012
They are Trayvon

Seattle Times:

Some 2,000 people marched in Seattle on Sunday to protest the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, the 17-year-old Florida youth whose killing by a neighborhood crime-watch captain has ignited a national furor.

"I AM TRAYVON MARTIN," read one sign in the crowd, the same words that a packed audience at Greater Mount Baker Baptist Church shouted loudly and repeatedly in unison before the march began.
Meanwhile, the Orlando Sentinel provides details which police say have been corroborated by witnesses:
Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived [in Zimmerman's gated community]. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie.

...

[Zimmerman] was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.


What this country could use right now is a post-racial President who can call for both sympathy for the dead victim and due process rights for the accused, irrespective of whichever one happens to look like himself.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at March 26, 2012 11:27 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Well, if it happened like Zimmerman said it did, this was absolutely a righteous shoot; and I really don't have any sympathy for a punk that, through his own actions, ended up costing his life.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 26, 2012 01:01 PM
2. Will the real Trayvon please stand up

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1939/020/Was_Trayvon_Martin_a_Drug_Dealer.html


finally and updated pic's gold teeth and tatts

Hmmm the Taryvon "Boy" image dont quite match the Drug Dealing Gangbanger reality does it ...

President Racist will own the riots after Zimmerman is cleared

Posted by: Hellpig on March 26, 2012 01:06 PM
3. Amen to the wish for a President of all of us, who would remind the whole country of due process, innocence until proven guilty, and decades of righteous opposition to lynch mobs. That would be leadership.

However, until we get a media that recalls such facets of justice no matter what race/color/gender the deceased might possess, it looks like community organizers of mob activities are going to get all the attention, and all the front page photos.

Suggestion: for the next Presidential candidate, 'community organizer' should be a bar, not an endorsement.

Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on March 26, 2012 01:43 PM
4. Classic. Another racist own-goal for Obama. Remember Gates, when he called the Cop stupid and the needed a Beer Summit to back pedal? Leftists. So quick to exploit anything for political gain, that it usually backfires.

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 26, 2012 01:49 PM
5. It appears that Jerry Large, Seattle Times columnist, has joined the virtual lynch mob that is out to get Zimmerman even though there is insufficient evidence to justify filing charges for a homicide motivated hate crime yet.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/jerrylarge/2017840397_jdl26.html

Professional race baiters are out in force. This situation can become ugly and dangerous. Our president has done nothing to calm down the situation before it explodes.

Posted by: Paddy on March 26, 2012 02:01 PM
6. Why aren't there any protests for Aliyah Shell, a 6 year old girl shot dead by a gang member in Chicago this weekend? Is it because she doesn't look like one of Obama's daughters?

Posted by: Gary on March 26, 2012 02:02 PM
7. Could this also be because the democrats want to ensure that Florida votes for Obama because of race so that they don't seem racist? The election is coming up and Florida is a key provider of electoral votes.

Posted by: William on March 26, 2012 02:09 PM
8. From Large's column posted by Paddy above.

...but the judgment {zimmerman] made about Trayvon and the acceptance of it by police grow out of a dangerous bias-driven fear.

Yeah, almost as bad as bias-driven reporting by a so-called "journalist". Apparently, the facts about this punk are still "at large". Jerry Large has his race-based narrative to push, to hell with the actual facts of the case. He's not interested in those.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 26, 2012 02:21 PM
9. As a mother, my capacity for empathy does not stop at only those who physically resemble my children.

Nor does it stop when it doesn't benefit my political future.

Nor does it stop because the race pimps aren't championing/exploiting it.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on March 26, 2012 02:30 PM
10. Yeah, typical, those layers and layers of fact checkers in the mainstream media somehow missed that Trayvon was a tatted up drug dealer with a lot of violent rhetoric surrounding his social media.

Yet another example of citizens doing the real journalism that the dying dinosaur media won't do because they are too in bed with Democrats and other Leftists.

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 26, 2012 02:30 PM
11. Wow.

Just wow.

Clearly I underestimate the depravity of which people are capable.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on March 26, 2012 02:35 PM
12. Hundreds of innocent black youths are shot and killed every year, usually by other black youths and I don't see rallies for these kids. The media and the Obama administration are doing everything they can to make this election year about anything but Obama's economic failures and the massive debt he has run up.

Posted by: Palouse on March 26, 2012 02:35 PM
14. Funny, the MySpace page to which Paddy sends us says it's for a "19-yr-old male," but the fellow who was shot was 17. Is Paddy confident he is sending us to the right page, and the right person?

Posted by: Thomas on March 26, 2012 02:53 PM
15. Thomas @14 -- It took me a moment to figure out what you were talking about, since Paddy didn't suggest any myspace page.

I think you mean this myspace page
http://www.myspace.com/t_r_a_y_9

which is linked from this page
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1939/020/Was_Trayvon_Martin_a_Drug_Dealer.html

which "hellpig"@2 suggested.

That myspace page does claim that its owner is 19 years old. But if you look at more of the pics, many are labeled with the names Trayvon or "Tray" and they resemble the published photos of Trayvon Martin. Whether the myspace page and all of its photos are really that Trayvon is beyond me to say, but it's hardly inconceivable that a teenage boy would inflate his age.

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on March 26, 2012 03:22 PM
16. Often, minors inflate their age on social networking sites. First of all, websites won't accept anything from someone who claims to be under 13 years of age, since there is a federal law prohibiting the collection and distribution of information of any sort from minors under 13 years of age. Second, there are various ego reasons to inflate one's age.

The MySpace page appears to have been created two or three years ago. It would be extremely unlikely for racist sympathizers to have faked a Taryvon Martin web page years ago, just to guard the possibility of Martin getting killed and becoming a cause celebre. Just like the conspiracy theory about faking the Hawaiian birth of some kid 50 years ago, just in the hopes that he might become President one day.

Overall, good piece by Stefan. People are entitled to due process, and we have had way too many lynchings historically in our country.

Posted by: Richard Pope on March 26, 2012 04:24 PM
17. .


7:09 p.m. ET

[...]
Zimmerman: "He looks black."
Dispatcher: "Did you see what he's wearing?"
Zimmerman: "A dark hoodie, grey hoodie, jeans or sweatpants or white shoes. He's walking around staring at the houses. Now he's just staring at me."
Dispatcher: "Location?"
Zimmerman: "He's near the clubhouse right now. Now he's coming towards me. He has his hands in his waistband. He is a black male. Somethings wrong with him. Yep. He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Send officers over here."
Dispatcher: "Let me know if he does anything else."
Zimmerman: "These a**holes, they always get away. When you come in go straight to the left ... when you pass the clubhouse ..."
[...]
Zimmerman: "Go straight in. Oh, s***. He's running ... down towards the other entrance of neighborhood."
Dispatcher: "He's running? Which way is he running?"
Zimmerman: "Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood."
Dispatcher: "Which entrance is that, that he is running towards?
Zimmerman: "The back entrance."
[inaudible]
Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"
Zimmerman: "Yeah."

Dispatcher: "OK. We don't need you to do that. What's your name?"

"[Zimmerman] was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.
Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.
Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.
Zimmerman began yelling for help."

7:16 p.m. ET - Caller: "Oh, my God, there is a gunshot, hurry up."
7:17 p.m. ET - Officer Ricardo Ayala dispatched and arrives

(un)Sound Math Test!

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on March 26, 2012 05:11 PM
18. MBS, I'm curious what the "math test" is? No, I'm not being facetious or intentionally thick.. It seems like you thought something from the times you posted would leap out as obviously inconsistent with the narrative and I honestly am not seeing what it was.

Now, I *am* being facetious when I say that I don't know who I'm supposed to root for in this whole matter. MSNBC has told me so many times that as a "white" person I am supposed to be racist and prejudiced against "black" people *AND* Hispanic people. I guess in the absence of clear guidance there, I should just root for truth and justice, and hope that they are served regardless of which "race" comes out on top in the final analysis.

Posted by: RookieRick on March 26, 2012 07:15 PM
19. Judging by the additional information coming out - such as his multiple suspensions at school, his 'gangsta' Tweets and drug use - combined with the fact he initiated the conflict with Zimmerman and assaulted him, the race baiters on the Left might want to reconsider their mob mentality.

In fact, they might want to simply shut up before it all blows up in their faces.

Posted by: jimg on March 26, 2012 07:16 PM
20. Edit - not multiple suspensions, but multiple transgressions. Stolen jewelry and drug possession.

Ten-day suspension.

Posted by: jimg on March 26, 2012 07:18 PM
21. My bad. I was correct the first time.

The Miami Gardens teen who has become a national symbol of racial injustice was suspended three times, and had a spotty school record...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy

Posted by: jimg on March 26, 2012 07:23 PM
22. @19,

That would assume that there is intelligence rather than sheer political motivation on the Left. Unlikely.

When you have a President that comments first before all the facts come out, you wonder if you can only get that kind of "intelligence" from a Harvard Education.

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 26, 2012 07:40 PM
23. Thomas, I linked to an opinion column in the Seattle times today by Jerry Large. I know that Martin is 17. FYI, I have never visited Face Book or any other social networking outlet.

Posted by: Paddy on March 26, 2012 07:42 PM
24. President Obama says that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon.

Judging by the private school the Obama girls attend, and their lack of body artwork, I don't think it is likely that an Obama son would look like Trayvon. Also judging by the perfect smiles of the Obamas, I also doubt they would opt for the gold dental work that Trayvon chose, for their own son's dental needs. I also doubt the Obamas would let their son roam around foreign neighborhoods at night without their consent.

So one wonders if the President is trying to relate to Trayvon simply because they share the same skin tone, even though they have little else in common?

But that can't be, because the media told us that the President would be a glorious post-racial uniter full of Hope and Change?

MikeBS, perhaps you could shed some light?

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 26, 2012 07:50 PM
25. If only more young, black men would arm themselves heavily, events like this would not happen. (At least, that's the logic behind the Floridian law, right?) Will the NRA support the Second Amendment right of young, black males to kill stalkers who chase without cause? Let's watch, and we'll see the NRA's actual dedication to armed self-defense! (After all, we are talking about a region and country where, for centuries, young black males have been executed without trial.)

...details which police say have been corroborated by witnesses...

Well, that's certainly a reliable, unbiased source with no interest in the matter. It certainly ranks higher than Zimmerman's own recorded words, right before the 911 dispatcher told him not to give chase.

What this country could use right now is a post-racial President...

What this city could always use is a blog where the few "facts" are not always queasily warm, ickily damp, and reeking of methane.

Posted by: tensor on March 26, 2012 09:58 PM
26. Declan "Tensor" McArdle @25:

Geez, you're what, 45 years old? and you have enough time on your hands to visit blogs you don't like so you can post fart jokes under a pseudonym? I feel sorry for your mother.

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on March 26, 2012 10:53 PM
27. Careful. Next thing you know, they'll award Tray the gangbanging wannabe the Nobel Prize.

Posted by: Hinton on March 26, 2012 11:50 PM
28. There are consequences to being a bully. Sometimes, deadly.

People should be more polite and control their temper, since you never know who is armed.

Posted by: Poppa on March 27, 2012 12:58 AM
29. You're all pretty quick to throw around the term "race baiter." I lived in the South in the early 70's, when there was a lot of hatred for blacks. I know racism, and the majority of these comments posted are racist, pure and simple.

Posted by: pru on March 27, 2012 01:58 AM
30. tensor,

Click the link in comment 15. Or are you afraid to learn that Trayvon Martin was most likely not a helpless victim? Because that might force you to change your opinion? And gasp, what if the facts proved Stefan right?

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 27, 2012 04:10 AM
31. After all, we are talking about a region and country where, for centuries, young black males have been executed without trial.

And they still are...by other young black males. Where's the outrage by the race pimps Jackson and Sharpton, et al? Oh, yeah, there's no money in holding phony rallies for that reality.

Weekend of violence claims 10 shooting victims across Chicago March 19, 2012 At least 10 people were killed, including a 6-year-old girl, in shootings over the weekend in Chicago. The slain were among at least 49 people wounded in shootings from 5 p.m. Friday to 6 a.m. Monday, according to information compiled by the Chicago Tribune.

So 10 people die in a weekend in the President's adopted home town and not a peep for him? Can't speak out on black on black violence, but runs his fat yapper on the white hispanic shooting some punk kid in self defense when that punk kid was beating the guy up. What a Maroon!!

Posted by: Rick D. on March 27, 2012 07:12 AM
32. Trayvon Martin simply (and sadly) has become yet another casualty of the single-parent, urban, gang-thug culture. A stupid, delinquent kid who considered himself far too cool and too tough.

But leave it to the leftist media and race-baiters Jackson, Sharpton and Obama to use him to:

1. distract Americans from the ongoing dismantling of our Constitutional republic.

2. further divide Americans by increasing racial tension and violence.

3. shame ignorant white liberals into voting (again) for an incompetent, failed, Marxist wanna-be.

The professional left and their media continue in their quest to bring this nation down. They will use any means to instigate all out war between factions united by their adoration or contempt for America's would-be dictator. This summer isn't going to be pretty as Obama searches for (or induces) any pretext to declare martial law and suspend (or cancel) the November elections.

Posted by: Saltherring on March 27, 2012 07:18 AM
33. A different article from Orlando Sentinel. Some additional facts: (1) Zimmerman was not acting in accordance with neighborhood watch protocol, which is to report and not try to carry out justice oneself, (2) Zimmerman was carrying a gun, which is also against neighborhood watch protocol, (3) Zimmerman following Martin started the altercation (per 911 tape), and (4) 911 officer told Zimmerman that he didn't need to follow suspect.

My opinion is this is a very controversial event that is being blown out of proportion by BOTH SIDES. While I don't think Zimmerman had any intent, I do not understand why so quick to shoot and why Florida laws allow such quick action. If you carry a gun, you have a responsibility to use it correctly. Martin was in the wrong for confronting and Zimmerman was overzealous. To me, it was a combustible situation that didn't need to be so and that is the learning lesson one can take from the incident. Cooler heads on both sides were called for.

Posted by: tc on March 27, 2012 08:23 AM
34. I do not understand why so quick to shoot

Hmm, let's see. Someone sucker punches you in the nose, breaking it and then proceeds to jump on top of you and pound your head into the concrete, what would you do if you were armed, tc? Offer to serve him cookies and warm milk if he stopped banging your melon into the ground? Clueless.

..blown out of proportion by BOTH SIDES.doesn't resemble reality whatsover.

False. Only one side is not interested in the facts but wants retribution, the facts be damned. That is Trayvon Martin's side. If there is a trial and is justifiably acquitted, any riots that will ensue will fall squarely on Al sharpton, Obama and the black panther buffoons for escalating the racial tension in their faux and selective outrage.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 27, 2012 09:14 AM
35. TC, how exactly did this get blown out of proportion by *both* sides? Please. Just another case of a poor black being killed by a Hispanic Democrat. Right, TC? Nothing to get excited about.

Posted by: Gary on March 27, 2012 10:55 AM
36. Saltherring:
Did you take your meds today? Alarming paranoia!

Posted by: Pru on March 27, 2012 11:06 AM
37. I think Zimmerman's mistake was to follow him. But given that he did (and it was not illegal to do so), once Trayvon started bashing his head to the ground, what do people think he should have done at that point? Clearly, his life had become in danger at that point (head injury is a serious thing, after all). What would have been the correct thing for him to do once finding himself on the ground being viciously attacked?

Posted by: Monterey on March 27, 2012 11:25 AM
38. Here is a link to a blog post at PJ Media that quotes the FL "stand your ground" statute:

http://pjmedia.com/blog/florida's-castle-doctrine-law-lets-actually-read-it/

You do not need to be a lawyer to comprehend its plain meaning. It is doubtful that this law applies to the Zimmerman's claim of self-defense.

A campaign to repeal this law in 20 odd states now has a racial component. The gun-control lobby hope to infuse new life into their failed effort.

Posted by: Paddy on March 27, 2012 11:52 AM
39. @Pru.....of course comments are racist...facts and truth is always racist to a commie progressive ...or didnt you get the memo ?

try the bigot or zenophobe cards they havent been played on this thread yet......useful idiot

Posted by: Hellpig on March 27, 2012 12:05 PM
40. Rick D,
As far as what I would have done, the answer is: (1) not carry a gun in first place, especially if I don't know how to responsible use it, (2) not confront (if he thought he was dangerous, why ask for more danger by confronting, i.e., following), and (3) when attacked, I would have kicked Martin in the balls, or taken his knees out (swipe from back). I wouldn't have pulled a gun. Doesn't Zimmerman know how to fight? Why did he need to pull the gun? The pulling of the gun was cowardly in my eyes. I can see a gun useful when defending property, but that wasn't the case here. In close up fight, a gun is sometimes a poor weapon of choice because it can be so often turned on oneself. From a distance (5 to 20 yards), it might be a good choice, but once engaged in direct contact, it no longer becomes the number one choice. Did Zimmerman not have self-defense training? Did he not know basic wrestling moves? If he was conscious enough to pull a gun and kill the other, then he was able to defend himself in other fashions also.

As far as both sides, the example is this post (and FOX News) trying to discredit Trayvon. I would also point out the Right jumping all over Obama on a simple statement and making more out of it than it was. All Obama's original statement said was that if he had a son, he too could be wearing a hoodie and present in that type of neighborhood. How is that false and inflaming the issue? It is popular apparel no matter the race. Zimmerman jumped to a conclusion based on the past violence and robberies in the neighborhood, which can often be the case. This is why I say cooler heads are needed. What isn't needed is stereotyping, on either side. I see it as an unfortunate accident that should not have happened. I do think Zimmerman holds some accountability. He wasn't performing proper neighborhood watch practices, but given Florida's law, I don't find him guilty of a crime. I do think Florida's law, however, needs to be reexamined. It is most likely vague in definition of what it means for one's life (or property) to be endangered.

Gary: What is being blown out of proportion is the responses on both sides and making it into a political sideshow with people like Geraldo and Al Sharpton acting as ringmasters. Soon, Nancy Grace will be all on it too.

Posted by: tc on March 27, 2012 12:40 PM
41. After reading Paddy's link, I don't think Florida's is vague and agree it is hard to fathom that Zimmerman's defense met the law's standard.

Posted by: tc on March 27, 2012 12:46 PM
42. ....not carry a gun in first place, especially if I don't know how to responsible use it

You're implying that Zimmerman didn't know how to "responsibly use [the weapon], which of course, is ridiculous. When you get your nose broken with a sucker punch and some clown is bashing your grap into the ground repeatedly, that IS EXACTLY the time to responsibly discharge your weapon in self defense. He didn't go all half cocked and shoot the punk anymore than he had to,1 bullet to the chest is not unreasonable, not overkill on his part. He felt understandably so that his life was in danger and defended his person with a Constitutionally guaranteed right. Just because YOU would choose not to exercise your 2nd amendment right doesn't mean he should.

..not confront (if he thought he was dangerous, why ask for more danger by confronting
No one has identified how close or weather Zimmerman was "following" anyone at that point. Zimmermann was next to his property, his vehicle, and Martin escalated it to physical confrontation.

Posted by: rick d on March 27, 2012 01:02 PM
43. #40. "Gary: What is being blown out of proportion is the responses on both sides and making it into a political sideshow with people like Geraldo and Al Sharpton acting as ringmasters. Soon, Nancy Grace will be all on it too."

TC, is one side not supposed to react when the other side decides to make it an issue? Sounds to me like now that more details are coming out, the side that originally got their panties in a wad now want it to go away.

I'm pretty our side doesn't have dead or alive bounty out on anybody.

Posted by: Gary on March 27, 2012 01:06 PM
44. The law says "a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself". That clearly applies to this case if it transpired the way Zimmerman says. And, while I don't support the law's removal of duty to retreat, it sounds to me like the law didn't matter here under Zimmerman's account, because retreat wasn't an option once Martin was banging Zimmerman's head against the ground.

The legal question seems to be whether Zimmerman's account is accurate. That will take more investigation and perhaps a trial to sort out.

In any case Zimmerman was foolish to engage Martin, and that was inappropriate in his role as watch volunteer -- but it does not change his legal culpability (with or without the Stand Your Ground law) as long as he didn't initiate the physical violence. Again, that's the question.

OTOH I think Obama's comments were measured and appropriate; only a partisan would find something to criticise. Surprise surprise, Stefan did that.

Posted by: Bruce on March 27, 2012 01:12 PM
45. Rick D.
Zimmerman is also 250 lbs, while Trayvon is 140 lbs. Are you saying a 250 lbs individual can't physically and verbally intimidate a 140 lb individual instead of drawing a weapon? I don't buy it. Yes, Zimmerman was attacked, but he had other choices he could have made once attacked instead of drawing his weapon. The first choice in self-defense is to diffuse the situation. The second choice is escape. If it comes to defending an attack then, the next choices is cause pain (stomp on foot, jab eye or throat, if male, hit them in privates) or blind (pepper spray, heck even dirt thrown in eyes). The choice isn't pull my 9 mm. There is no evidence that Zimmerman tried all these actions.

Posted by: tc on March 27, 2012 01:40 PM
46. Bruce, what did Obama mean by saying Trayvon looked like his son? And why has he not said anything about the NBPP putting out a bounty on Zimmerman?

Posted by: Gary on March 27, 2012 01:42 PM
47. #45 tc: "Yes, Zimmerman was attacked, but he had other choices he could have made once attacked instead of drawing his weapon. "

See, TC knows. He knows everything. Isn't that how you guys got into this Duke Lacrosse II C.F.?

Posted by: Gary on March 27, 2012 01:53 PM
48. I'm not going to hypothesize about who was right, who was wrong, who instigated what. It seems every 5 minutes new and more information is coming out.

Unfortunately the race pimps and exploiters have already become judge and jury and, with the bounty offered by the New Black Panthers, hope to be executioner.

What infuriates me is the hypocrisy of these race pimps, the hypocrisy of this media, the hypocrisy of this president.

Those same folks who claims to want racial peace, who claim racial parity was achieved with the election of Obama are the ones who purposefully - and yes GLEEFULLY - run to a camera for attention - even when attention is not warranted.

It is absolutely disgusting.

Almost as disgusting as the deafening silence.

Left America is proving itself more evil, more morally bankrupt, more destructive and self-destructive by the day with what it champions, what it fails to champion, what it ignores. And that doesn't JUST include these
cases; it includes union thugs threatening business and individuals, it includes OWS thugs defecating and raping for their cause, it includes sanctimonious thugs demanding 'rights' that don't exist and screeching for free speech - but only when they approve the message. It includes intolerant homosexuals who won't tolerate objection to their behavior.

Shame on you people.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on March 27, 2012 02:10 PM
49. tc~ The first choice in self-defense is to diffuse the situation.

Diffuse the situation? That's kind of hard to do once someone has already made a verbal threat "well, you do now" and then socked you in the nose, not to mention banging your melon into the ground repeatedly. Martin escalated this into a "confrontation" and as a result, ended up a victim of his own stupid decision to physically engage with Zimmerman.

The second choice is escape.

Escaping is not a guarantee that you won't be attacked again. Besides, if your head is getting whacked against the ground by someone, you are looking to neutralize the threat, not think of how you can get up and run away. The fact that Zimmerman fired only one shot, to neutralize the threat, is evidence enough for me that he exercised restraint in the application of deadly force.

there is no evidence that Zimmerman tried all these actions.

It's easy to play NFL Quarterback on Monday morning. When you're in the heat of the battle, you're thinking swings to survival mode, it's innate in us. Fight or flight as they say. Trayvon Martin limited Zimmerman's choices to one of these options and paid the price for it.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 27, 2012 02:12 PM
50. On the contrary: our race-based president's comments were measured, all right... they had measureable amounts of bigotry and partisanship themselves.

Where's the empty suit's concern for the other black children killed by other blacks?

Those kids are just as dead. Where's their parent's call from that simple idiot in the White House?

A measured response would have been:

"Look, I'm not in a position to make a judgment and, as president, this situation is best served by my lack of effort to inflame the people or the possible jury pool.

At some point, the entire truth will come out. At some point, a jury MAY weigh in. Until then, I will continue to express my confidence in the local authorities to handle this situation (Many of whom, such as the acting chief of police, are black themselves) and I look forward to the outcome of a completed investigation."

And, of course, the only way that gang-banger wannabe punk could have been Obama's kid is if he'd done a Spring Break in Florida.

Posted by: Hinton on March 27, 2012 02:26 PM
51. Left America is proving itself more evil, more morally bankrupt, more destructive and self-destructive by the day with what it champions, what it fails to champion, what it ignores.

Spike Lee endangers random woman by giving incorrect address for George Zimmerman

Shame on you people.

How Many Crimes Did the New Black Panthers Commit in Florida?

When New Black Panther Mikhail Muhammad called for the mobilization of a 10,000-strong black male mob to capture George Zimmerman, we glimpsed into the depths of racial depravity of the organization. "An eye for an eye," Muhammad threatened. A cash bounty for Zimmerman, "dead or alive," provided a nasty incentive for thugs across the land.

... Let's start with solicitation to kidnap. In announcing a reward for the seizure of Zimmerman, the New Black Panthers may have violated Florida Code 787.01. It makes it a felony to "by threat, confining or abducting, or imprisoning another person against his . . . will without lawful authority with intent to . . . terrorize."

Merely soliciting someone else to do this is also a felony in Florida under Florida Code 777.04. "A person who solicits another to commit an offense prohibited by law and in the course of such solicitation commands, encourages, hires, or requests another person to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such offense or an attempt to commit such offense commits the offense of criminal solicitation."

The solicitation and threat to seize Zimmerman may also constitute a crime under Florida Code 876.35. The felony of "combination against part of the people of the state" occurs when someone is unlawfully seized by a mob, or at the behest of a mob. Think of a small town jail 100 years ago and an angry crowd, armed with rope, demanding a particular inmate. Sound familiar?

Florida Code 876.35 defines the crime: "to remove them forcibly out of this state, or to remove them from their habitations to any other part of the state by force, or [when people] shall assemble for that purpose." Remember, solicitation to commit a crime is in itself a crime.

Florida Code 876.34 even makes it a felony to "interfere forcibly in the administration of the government."

Shame on you people.

Did the Trayvon Martin tragedy spontaneously gain momentum among an outraged public or was this a coordinated effort on the part of the Democrat/media spin machine to keep attention away from a failed Presidency?

Shame on you people.

George Zimmerman 'withdrawn' from college

Ignoring such basic American Constitutional rights as innocent until proven guilty not to mention the 40 year old unconstitutional right for selective minorites to affirmative action, Seminole State College in Florida has "withdrawn", as the college euphemistically put it, (in other words kicked out) Hispanic white American student George Zimmerman.

Did the Trayvon Martin tragedy spontaneously gain momentum among an outraged public or was this a coordinated effort on the part of the Democrat/media spin machine to keep attention away from a failed Presidency?

Shame on you people.

George Zimmerman 'withdrawn' from college

Ignoring such basic American Constitutional rights as innocent until proven guilty not to mention the 40 year old unconstitutional right for selective minorites to affirmative action, Seminole State College in Florida has "withdrawn", as the college euphemistically put it, (in other words kicked out) Hispanic white American student George Zimmerman.


So, let's recap: We have threats, lies, manufactured crises and civil right violations. Where is your lefty outrage?

Shame on you people.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on March 27, 2012 02:26 PM
52. A bunch of punk high schoolers in Florida walked out of classes today and went and tore up a Walgreens.

Good job, liberals. Mission accomplished. You have incited the mobs, and got Zimmerman kicked out of college.

Posted by: Gary on March 27, 2012 02:30 PM
53. Live like a drug dealing gangbanger.Die like a drug dealing gangbanger.

Posted by: Hellpig on March 27, 2012 02:35 PM
54. That this happened a month ago and the "true facts" are only now beginning to creep out over the last 48 hours is proof that the "lamestream media" in this country aren't capable of objective journalism. They take one side of the story and portray this punk kid as some kind of 17 year old saint being gunned down innocently roaming a gated community peacefully eating his skittle and drinking his pop.

Now that the 2nd half of the story is emerging and painting the true story of what materialized and who this "saint" was, do we have anyone back pedal from the narrative put forth over the past 3+ weeks? Of course not. Obama, Sharpton, Jackson and their buddies in the black panther party are doubling down on stupidity and letting this simmer into a race-based, unjust shooting. Post-racial president my ass.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 27, 2012 02:54 PM
55. Brace yourselves folks. Racists Obama, Sharpton, Jackson, Holder and the New Black Panthers won't be satisfied until they've incited every gang-banging punk in the country to violence against the people who have fed, clothed, housed and provided medical care to these lazy, urban no-loads for over 50 years. Time to shut the faucet off, as we are broke.

Posted by: Saltherring on March 27, 2012 03:42 PM
56. Presumption of Innocence.
Innocent until proven guilty.

Do those terms ring a bell? For either victim?

Yes, Zimmerman is now a victim - a victim of mob mentality. A victim of mob harassment. A victim of death threats. A victim of the media. A victim of his color.

And young Martin, he is still a victim. His memory is daily being raped by those too willing to gleefully benefit from his young death.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on March 27, 2012 04:54 PM
57. I think it's interesting how much angst this had created for the Leftists.

Because anyone can see that on the one hand, the President wants to play the authenticity card by saying that his son would look like Trayvon, and throwing out certain cultural lingo when he speaks to predominantly brown skinned crowds.

While on the other hand, the Obamas live much more like bluebloods wearing the latest designer fashions, frequenting the Hamptons, and jet setting around the world. I can't see Michelle Obama letting her family hang around in hoodies. She's far more likely to have them dressed up like mannequins in the latest couture.

It's tough when the very guy Leftists voted in for post-racial change, turns out to be a race-baiter who consistently speaks in terms of colors instead of just speaking in terms of Americans.

Somewhere, MLK must be saddened by the perversion of his legacy.

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 27, 2012 05:50 PM
58. What's up with the "white hispanic" label? Are they trying to say that this wouldn't have been bad if he had been a "brown hispanic"?

Posted by: Monterey on March 27, 2012 05:55 PM
59. #58 Monterey, the liberals are so twisted up about this they are trying like hell to claim that the Hispanic Democrat shooter is some kind of KKK Republican.

BTW, it seems Spike Lee tweeted Zimmerman's home address... but it's the wrong one! It belongs to an elderly couple who work for the school system and are now terrified.

Don't you liberals see what kind of mess you've created here? I think you do. I think you did it on purpose.

Posted by: Gary on March 27, 2012 06:17 PM
60. So where does Obama and his Dept.of Justice stand on the bounty offered by the Black Panthers? What happened to due process?

Posted by: jimt on March 27, 2012 08:24 PM
61. #60. jimt, they are in favor of what the Panthers are doing. It's why they dropped all charges against them for intimidating white voters at the polls in Philly in 2008. Obama and Holder are radicals, and racists.

Posted by: Gary on March 27, 2012 10:18 PM
62. Seems like young Trayvon remind the President of young Barack, from his lifestyle. Besides being intellectually dishonest about the incident - am waiting for him say the Florida State Police behaved stupidly..

Posted by: KDS on March 27, 2012 10:32 PM
63. Speaking of liberals and their tactics,...look at this breakdown of how the intolerant leftist radicals at Media Matters are conspiring to shut down dissenting speech....with Barrack Obama's Whitehouse even playing a role in the sordid operations. Imagine what would be said if this were an R Whitehouse doing the exact same thing! We need a new president NOW. :

http://spectator.org/archives/2012/03/27/the-plot-to-get-rush/print

Posted by: Michele on March 27, 2012 11:39 PM
64. Leave it to the wingnuts to trash a comments thread.

Posted by: Pru on March 28, 2012 12:37 AM
65. BTW, it seems Spike Lee tweeted Zimmerman's home address... but it's the wrong one! It belongs to an elderly couple who work for the school system and are now terrified.

Hope that couple sue that piece of human excrement Lee for millions for putting their lives in danger by reactionary, leftist mobs that Sharpton, Jackson and Obama have whipped into a racially-charged (and unfounded) frezy.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 28, 2012 07:02 AM
66. The real promoters of the racist industry (ie. Spike Lee, Sharpton and Jackson) - racists themselves have come out of the woodwork and are out to deliberately gin up civil unrest.

Obama does not have a problem with this - he figures the politicization will work to his advantage and its all about him.

Posted by: KDS on March 28, 2012 07:59 AM
67. KDS @66
Like I stated earlier let the sideshows begin. Everyone is throwing their hat in to be ringmaster. I expect to see a year-long Nancy Grace-a-thon start anytime now.

Posted by: tc on March 28, 2012 08:10 AM
68. KDS-

Obama not only doesn't have a problem with racists Jackson, Lee and Sharpton, he is one of them. I am convinced both Barack and Michelle Obama detest white people and simply use (and abuse) the simple-minded white liberals (Tensor, Mike BS, etc) who vote for them.

Posted by: Saltherring on March 28, 2012 08:18 AM
69. jimt@60: Image the uproar if a group calling themselves "The New Snow Leopards" offered a bounty on a minority person.

Posted by: It Takes a Village to Convene a Grand Juty on March 28, 2012 08:27 AM
70. @69

Yes, imagine the furor if the media started referring to the President as a "White African."

The hypocrisy and double standards in the media is one of the biggest single reasons to always vote on the right.

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 28, 2012 08:32 AM
71. Rick @49
Let's start prior to Martin's words to Zimmerman. Put yourself in Martin's shoes for a moment. You are walking through a neighborhood with no ill intent planned (no one doubts that he was there to visit not perform other actions). Suddenly, this man starts chasing you. What do you do Rick?

This is the first mistake in the accident that happened (and I call it an accident because I don't believe Zimmerman had any intent on what occurred). Once Zimmerman turned back to go to his vehicle, Martin should have left it alone, but he is an adolescent and they do make mistakes.

When Martin confronts Zimmerman, according to the evidence to date, there was a verbal altercation that occurred first (i.e., Martin just didn't come up and punch Zimmerman and knock him to the ground). At this point, Zimmerman, being the adult could have done three actions: (1) Try to talk Martin down, (2) Try to verbally raise the noise level to attract attention and possibly impose his obvious size advantage on Martin to scare him into backing down, or (3) let the altercation escalate. From all evidence, Zimmerman chose the third option.

At this point, the situation was out of control with both sides performing stupid choices. Martin throws the punch, which must have landed square in Zimmerman's face and broke his nose. Martin then knocks him to the ground (Zimmerman's shirt shows evidence of being on the ground/grass). Zimmerman's head knocked against the curb (not sure if separate event or happened when knocked to the ground). There is wimpering heard by neighbor, but unsure who is wimpering. A shot is then fired. The neighbor runs out and views Zimmerman standing over Martin with a gun.

Note: This scenario in my mind has been updated from what I earlier wrote, based on additional reports in the news.

From this, if I had to guess, and also based on Zimmerman's mood/state after the fact, Zimmerman probably didn't pull his gun but struggled with Martin with it and Martin accidentally got shot in the struggle over the gun. It could have just as likely have been Zimmerman that was shot. This is the reason why I say guns are no good in close in contact. Accidents can happen. One can not be assured they will have the upper hand. Zimmerman carrying the gun, even though he had good intent, shows the probably with this. I have no problem with gun ownership. I do have problem with people who think guns are THE ANSWER to problems because they often don't understand the inherent risks also. Too many children die because of gun accidents due to negligent adults who don't know how to properly use their weapon. I think in this case, the owning of the handgun or even carrying (necessarily) was the issue, but it was an inexperienced owner. The gun was a 9mm. By the timeline, it was most likely cocked (bullet in chamber). I am guessing, but given that there was a struggle and the fact that the gun fired also makes me question whether the safety was engaged. Zimmerman is feeling very remorseful and my bet will not ever be in that situation again. He will either not carry or learn the proper carry techniques.

Also, after reading more reports, I think the big deal about Florida's law is not applicable. Other than a permissive carry law, in reading more facts, I view this incident as an accident, just like when children playing with a gun get shot. The race of the parties involved really should have nothing to do with the actual shooting. Both sides need to address the root problems this incident brings forth, which are racial/clothing profiling (Martin could have been any race and wearing a hoody and still caught Zimmerman's eye -- his eye was caught by the hoodie, not race, I believed) and proper self defense techniques and proper carry techniques (training before given permit to carry so one knows the risks and proper handling techniques).

Posted by: tc on March 28, 2012 08:45 AM
72. Suddenly, this man starts chasing you. What do you do Rick?

First of all, there is no evidence or even accusation that Zimmerman "chased" after Martin. Observing is not confronting, nor is it "chasing". A little overdramatized on your part isn't it, tc?

could have done three actions: (1) Try to talk Martin down, (2) Try to verbally raise the noise level to attract attention and possibly impose his obvious size advantage on Martin to scare him into backing down

A little convoluted there, tc. On one hand you expect Zimmerman to "talk Martin down" and then on the other you say he should have "impose[d] his obvious size advantage on Martin to scare him". So which one should he have done, tc? See the contradiction here?

(3) let the altercation escalate. From all evidence, Zimmerman chose the third option.

It is not incumbent on Zimmerman to ensure the confrontation does not escalate. Last I checked it took 2 to tango and with Martin injecting physical violence into the confrontation, he was the aggressor and therefore the reason there was a physical altercation in the first place. Zimmerman's choices were limited when he was mounted on the ground with Martin pounding his melon into the pavement. I also agree that more than likely, the gun may have gone off accidentally or at least not intentionally directed at Martin. The most I would possibly give Zimmeran in this case is "reckless endangerment".

The race of the parties involved really should have nothing to do with the actual shooting

Agreed. But until the race-baiters like Jackson, Sharpton, et al are dismissed by the black community and not looked upon as "leaders" (and propagated by "news" organizations like MSNBC), we will certainly see more of the same in the future.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 28, 2012 09:25 AM
73. Rick @72
"there is no evidence or even accusation that Zimmerman "chased" after Martin"
Umm, Rick, the 911 tape clearly calls out that Zimmerman was chasing Martin, which is why the operator stated that he didn't need to do that.

If you can't even agree on the basic facts, then there is no sense discussing with you any further.

Posted by: tc on March 28, 2012 10:22 AM
74. "possibly impose his obvious size advantage on Martin to scare him"

...turns out that the cute photo of Trayvon is several years old and he is actually now 6'2", according to many. So it sounds as though Zim did not necessarily have a height advantage.

Posted by: Monterey on March 28, 2012 10:22 AM
75. tc @73: The 911 tape clearly depicts Zimmerman saying he was "following" Martin, and the dispatcher telling him to stop "following" Martin. There is a gaping wide difference between chasing and following. Following suggests surveillance and chasing suggests aggression. If you can't even understand basic English, then there is no sense discussing with you any further.

Posted by: katomar on March 28, 2012 10:27 AM
76. Don't know where else to put this, but it's important since Obamacare is in the high court as we speak. We know O-Care proponents have admitted it's their trojan horse to Single-payer. Look what the London Telegraph reports is happening to the elderly in Britain; the NHS sees them as disposable:

"Even the most sentimental champions of the NHS recognise its dark side. Given that its Chief Executive Sir David Nicholson has demanded a £20 billion efficiency saving if the NHS is to survive, and that demographic changes mean millions more elderly people will rely on its services (and space), the NHS can only do one thing: ration.

.... As the Telegraph reports today, elderly patients are being denied the best cancer care. The figures are alarming: lack of treatment is contributing to 14,000 deaths a year among the over-75s. Men and women are dying PREMATURELY each year because their diseases are diagnosed later and less likely to be operated on."

Posted by: Michele on March 28, 2012 10:56 AM
77. Michelle: Yes, single-payer health care is an abomination. I lived under it for nearly 20 years in Europe and witnessed first-hand how it cruelly injured or even killed people. My best friend there died of Crohn's disease because meds for the disease maintenance could not be had anywhere in-country. And that's what Obamacare envisions as a direction. Poor Britain. I know those folks are suffering, and once implemented, there is no easy way out. Please, Supremes, not for us. I gather they are mulling today whether, if the individual mandate falls, does that destroy the whole piece of legislation. Please, yes.

Posted by: katomar on March 28, 2012 11:19 AM
78. I read an article this morning (sigh, I can't find it) regarding the neighborhood, the watch group and Sanford FL. The inconvenient FACT is the crime rate in Sanford. If 100, representing little crime, is the top pf the range and 1, representing the high crime, is the bottom of the range, SANFORD HAS A RATING OF THREE.

If/when I find the article, I'll post it.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on March 28, 2012 12:46 PM
79. If you can't even agree on the basic facts, then there is no sense discussing with you any further.

I can't help if you want to wander into the dramatization in order to make your point, tc. Your use of "the man starts chasing you" as if Zimmerman was in a dead sprint towards Martin is ridiculous. That has not even been close to being substantiated other than the fantasy world you live in. By all accounts, Zimmerman was approached and yes, confronted by Martin (whom was near his POV) which led to the fatal confrontation that Martin initiated physicall, escalated and ultimately died from. If you don't want to admit to the basic facts, I can't help you fit that square peg (your imagination) in that round hole (the facts as we know them to be).

Posted by: Rick D. on March 28, 2012 12:48 PM
80. MikeBoyScout@ 17

You must have gotten your transcript from MSNBC because you left out a critical piece of information:

ZIMMERMAN: This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

911 DISPATCHER: Okay, is this guy, is he white, black, or Hispanic?

ZIMMERMAN: He looks black.

See, you transcript only starts with the Zimmerman's comment that Trayvon looks black. In reality, Zimmerman was only responding to the 911 dispatcher.

Posted by: arby on March 28, 2012 01:01 PM
81. @80,

If you look at the facts, it's obvious that Zimmerman was nothing more than an overzealous Watch Captain. He votes Democrat and is certainly not a racist. It was an unfortunate situation, but Trayvon learned the hard way that you don't punch someone and start jumping on their head.

The worst part though is how much the Media, The Batsh-t Crazy Lefty commentariat, and the President have fanned the flames on something that had nothing to do with race.

If there are riots or harm to the elderly couple tweeted by Spike Lee, or anyone else gets hurt as a result of Black Panthers or angry mobs, the blood is solely on the hands of the Left.

Appalling people. Yet another reasons to avoid voting Left. They always manage to take bad situations and make them worse.

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 28, 2012 01:23 PM
82. Assholes at the White House are now accusing Republicans of making a big deal out of this.

=======

Stephanie Cutter, Obama's Deputy Campaign Manager:

"His Republican opponents have jumped all over him because they do want to play politics with this issue. The President spoke from his heart on this, it was trying to emphasize with some parents who had just lost a child. By any measure, this was a tragedy and we need to let the investigation take its course," Stephanie Cutter, Obama's Deputy Campaign Manager, said on MSNBC today.

"People have to stop politicizing it," she added. "It's no surprise that some of our Republican opponents are trying to make an issue with this. But the President spoke from the heart and we need to let the investigation take its course."
======

Posted by: Gary on March 28, 2012 01:37 PM
83. The President spoke from his heart on this, it was trying to emphasize with some parents who had just lost a child.

The President is the one that came out and ran his yapper without knowing any of the facts, yet somehow the R's are politizing this? What a Moron this lady Cutter is. Not to mention she incorrectly used "emphasize" when it should clearly be "empathize". Then again, her boss is no stranger to making similar gaffes with the english language in his public speaking so...

Posted by: Rick D. on March 28, 2012 01:48 PM
84. Rick, absolutely! Just like TC saying that *both* sides are blowing this out of proportion. WTF is the matter with these people? And if Obama wanted to speak from the heart, why not apologize to Officer Terry's family, or any of the hundreds of Mexicans killed by weapons *he* gave to drug cartels??? Oh... they don't look like his son.

Posted by: Gary on March 28, 2012 01:54 PM
85. Katamor,
If you notice in the 911 tape, prior to Zimmerman stating he was following, he states that Martin was "RUNNING". I don't know how you follow, but if I am following someone who is running, then I would need to run also. ERGO, Zimmerman was chasing. I am just going off what the 911 tape states.

Posted by: tc on March 28, 2012 02:24 PM
86. tc~ "he states that Martin was "Running"...I would need to run also"

Are you really that daft, tc? "running" has many connotations, not literal. Police describe people as "running" all the time when that person is not literally running. It just means they are trying to avoid detection or making movements so as to avoid being stopped.

To take "running" as literal shows a clear disconnect with the modern use of the term. If I say Obama is "running" for re-election, does that mean he's literally running from campaign stump speech to another? Obviously, no. Wow, you're really not connecting the dots this week, tc.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 28, 2012 02:43 PM
87. I wasn't going to respond to Rick, but he is the one being obtuse. Some definitions (Dictionary.com) (note most common meaning is listed first):

run - Verb: (1) To go quickly by moving the legs more rapidly than at a walk and in such a manner that for an instant in each step all or both feet are off the ground. (2) to move with hast; act quickly (3) to depart quickly; take to flight flee or escape (other meanings are other uses of term and not applicable)
Synonyms: amble, bound break, canter, dart, dash, drop, escape, fall, flight, gallop, jog, lope ...

follow - Verb: (1) to come after in sequence, order of time, etc. (2) to go or come after; move behind in the same direction (other meanings are other uses of term and not applicable)
Synonyms: accompany, attend, bring up the rear, catenate, chase, come with, concatenate, convoy, dog..., give chase..., run after, run down..., tail..., track

chase - Verb: (1) to pursue in order to seize, overtake, etc. (2) to pursue with intent to capture or kill as game (other meanings are other uses of term and not applicable)
Synonyms: bird-dog, charge, chivy, course, drive, drive away, expel, follow, go after, hound, hunt, run down, rush, seek, shag, speed, take off after, tear, track, track down, trail

Rick, the words follow and chase mean the same and run means the person is moving faster than a walk. This is the most common meanings. You are arguing about something that isn't there. The 911 report states Zimmerman saying that Martin was running and then states that he was following. Using the word chase is just as appropriate and in the eyes of Martin would be a proper term to use. Get off your perturbed horse and stop arguing for the sake of argument.

Posted by: tc on March 28, 2012 03:38 PM
88. Whatever, tc. Keep playing the semantics, it's really not winning over anyone here as to what happened anyway.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 28, 2012 03:48 PM
89. It's interesting that tc feels so comfortable interpreting someone's actual words into what he thinks or "feels" they should have meant. Zimmerman said "following". The Dispatcher said "follow". How you, without qualm or feeling really deceitful, interpret that into them actually meaning "chasing", I have no idea. Shame.

Posted by: katomar on March 28, 2012 03:53 PM
90. TC is just trying his hardest to support the narrative that has fallen apart.

Posted by: Gary on March 28, 2012 04:09 PM
91. Hell, people still try to defend Obamacare too. And not even Obama does that. That's what useful idiots are for.

Posted by: Gary on March 28, 2012 04:20 PM
92. Apparently this no-limit-thug (his own words) found the limit, approx 124gr.

Posted by: Bob Smith on March 28, 2012 09:31 PM
93. Katomar,
Who is interpreting words? I am taking the most common meaning of words. Run is faster than walk. To follow, then, one has to also go faster than a walk. From Martin's, viewpoint, then, someone is following you and a synonym for this state is that they are chasing you. There is nothing in English language wrong with this interpretation that uses the most common meanings. You, Rick, and Gary are trying to twist the common meanings of words to mean a specific meaning in your minds.

I will respond no further to you three individuals, since you clearly have other purposes in discussion.

BACK TO THE POST
It is interesting in yesterday's news that the detective handling the case did want to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter, but the Assistant Prosecuting Attorney handling the case declined because he felt he couldn't convict.

Then, there is this article in the Boston Globe that brings out some other facts. For instance, it was raining and thus reason for Martin to have his hood up. Another line from the 911 tape has Zimmerman stating:

"These a-------. They always get away," Zimmerman said on a 911 call.

This was before Zimmerman "followed" Martin. So, what was the purpose of Zimmerman following Martin? Was it just for surveillance, or was it to make sure Martin didn't get away?

Posted by: tc on March 29, 2012 09:28 AM
94. You, Rick, and Gary are trying to twist the common meanings of words to mean a specific meaning in your minds.

No, tc, it is you doing semantic gymnastics and somehow morphing the word "follow" into the word "chase" which you did in your posts above.

So, what was the purpose of Zimmerman following Martin?

Oh, so now we're back to the word "following"? Oh, and a question for you. So, what was the purpose of Martin following Zimmerman to his, (Zimmerman's)vehicle? Once he was told to stop following Martin on the 911 dispatch call, Zimmerman responded "okay". So it was Martin that initiated a confrontation, escalated it to a physical altercation and ended up a statistic as the result of his own poor decisions.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 29, 2012 10:25 AM
95. TC, identify the word that you said I have twisted.

Posted by: Gary on March 29, 2012 11:33 AM
96. Gary,
You chimed in on Katamor's post in relation to the semantics Rick was twisting, therefore, you were agreeing with both of them. I have written the plain meaning of the words and the synonyms. A synonym for follow is chase, especially when seen from the point of view of the person being followed. Further, the additional info in the Boston Globe link relating to 911 tape further elaborates on Zimmerman's state of mind. His statement was he didn't want Martin to get away with it, like all the rest have done. Therefore, the intent of following Martin was to apprehend, which gets back to the plain meaning of the word chase. You were, instead, supporting Katamor and Rick D's convoluted, less accurate, more obtuse meaning of the word follow and chase than the simple meaning. Rick D even went so far in obfuscating what "run" meant and tried to imply that running didn't mean going faster than a walk (most common meaning).

Posted by: tc on March 29, 2012 01:34 PM
97. Trayvon Martin was where he had a right to be, minding his own business, hurting nobody, and he's dead because an officious meddler with a violent criminal history that includes domestic violence and assaulting a police officer was allowed to have a gun and used it to end a confrontation with a stranger he himself started because he didn't like the stranger's looks. This case is a no-brainer. The shooter deserves to go to prison for taking an innocent life. It's not more complicated than that.

Posted by: Roger Rabbit on March 29, 2012 01:34 PM
98. @98,

Like I said on HA, Z-man is probably going to be capped by somebody in his local area, once they find him.

Posted by: Politically Incorrect on March 29, 2012 02:18 PM
99. RR@97: And George Zimmerman was where he had a right to be, minding his own business (investigating a suspicious person), hurting nobody, and he's a hunted man (see @KILLZIMMERMAN tweet account, New Panther Party Dead or Alive poster, etc) because officious meddlers with a history of race-baiting that includes the Tawana Brawley incident, that all criticism of Obama is due to his race, the Gates/Cambridge police incident are allowed to rule the airwaves in this country with no consequences for passing off twisted, partial, and out-right false claims as facts. The case is a non-brainer that you can't rely on the police to handle all crimes and sometimes private citizens have to defend themselves and their property from the lawless in this land instead of just ignoring things that are happening in their neighborhoods. It's not more complicated than that.

Posted by: It Takes a Village to Convene a Grand Juty on March 29, 2012 02:58 PM
100. Anyone know what peice Zimmerman used? Appeared to be effective at stopping the punk from beating Zimmerman to death.
I'd like to know what caliber he used in case some roger rabbit type punk jumps me for peacefully and respectfully looking out for my neighborhood like Zimmerman apparently did.

Usually use a .357 magnum snubby myself.
Does the job.

Posted by: Amused by Liberals on March 29, 2012 04:52 PM
101. @99 & @100 - That's about what I expected from you guys.

Posted by: Roger Rabbit on March 29, 2012 06:04 PM
102. Listen up...Roger Rabid knows everything. HA-HA-HA....

Posted by: Saltherring on March 29, 2012 08:11 PM
103. I just have to wonder if Zimmerman might wake up and wonder why he's a Democrat after he's been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion by those in the Democrat party (to include sitting congress people) and the lamestream liberal media without him having his day in court or even a fair presentation of his side of the story. Never too late to learn from a life experience I suppose.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 29, 2012 09:32 PM
104. Martin's mother confirmed that she filed trademark applications for two slogans containing her son's name: "Justice for Trayvon" and "I Am Trayvon." The applications said the trademarks could be used for such things as DVDs and CDs.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017845201_trayvonmartin27.html?prmid=obinsource

Just glad to see some have their priorities in order in this case...

Posted by: Rick D. on March 29, 2012 11:03 PM
105. @104 Let me spell it out for you, since you're not smart enough to figure it out. She has no intention of commercializing her son's name. She's filing for trademark protection to keep others from doing it. Comprende?

Posted by: Roger Rabbit on March 29, 2012 11:55 PM
106. That is too funny. So the guy that consistently pretends he is a rabbit over at Horses Ass blog suddenly wants to be taken seriously. In his own words: "hardy har har."

Posted by: LOL on March 30, 2012 06:07 AM
107. Apparently the furry Varmint @ 105 failed reading comprehension classes. I'll put it in bold so that it helps him process what was put on the trademark application.

The applications said the trademarks could be used for such things as DVDs and CDs.

That wording implies that she plans to market the trademark, not protect against the use of the imbecilic slogans, you furry headed rodent.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 30, 2012 06:31 AM
108. @ 101, That's about what I expected from you guys.

Just a little hint for you:
If you are out walking at night and someone follows you, unless you are ready and equipped to kill them, you had best keep moving away and by all means do not attack them . . . BECAUSE THEY MAY BE ARMED and shoot you dead you DUMB-ASS!

No matter what you and your scummy liberal buddies do or say (or legislate), you will never disarm me or those like me.
I am conservative so you can take comfort that I will never attack you, steal or harm your stuff. I earn my own so I don't need yours.

Nevertheless, AND LISTEN UP REALLY CAREFULLY HERE GENIUS because your life may depend upon it, some liberals like Zimmerman also carry guns and if you attack me or mine, you had best make a better plan than Trayvon did.

This is obvious to the rest of us; why not you?
Always had your mommy settle your disputes?
Grow up.

Posted by: Amused by Liberals on March 30, 2012 10:41 AM
109.
Reasonable, decent Americans know that trying the Martin/Zimmerman case in the media is wrong. Pure and simple. Ironically, the people who are screaming for justice for Trayvon are acting like a lynch mob.
Folks, my point is that Democrats are committed to dividing black and white Americans along racial lines. Democrats are running to microphones and TV cameras spreading irresponsible, racially inflammatory rhetoric as if it were 1950 rather than 2012.

Reasonable, decent Americans know that trying the Martin/Zimmerman case in the media is wrong.

I guess that leaves out RR and his fellow donkeybutts ...

Ironically, the people who are screaming for justice for Trayvon are acting like a lynch mob.

Or not.

It must really suck to be a such a confused Seattle liberal: outraged at 'hate' by fomenting more hate... and violence.

Do you people ever look in the mirror? ...or examine your conscience? ... ASSuming you have one.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on March 30, 2012 11:00 AM
110. Corrine Brown and the Forgotten Innocent
Trayvon Martin was the victim of an enigmatic confrontation, where an assessment of guilt is obscure in the eyes of the law. Somer Thompson was an innocent child, robbed of life by a wretched creature that is much less publically vilified than the potentially innocent George Zimmerman.

Hypocrisy's other name is LIBERAL.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on March 30, 2012 11:22 AM
111. @99 Lest anyone misconstrue my remarks...

By the words "sometimes private citizens have to defend themselves and their property from the lawless in this land instead of just ignoring things that are happening in their neighborhoods" I meant that private individuals have the right to investigate/observe/follow, but not necessarily confront, suspicious people in their neighborhoods no matter if said person is doing nothing illegal. In no way was I trying to promote vigilante-style violence.

Posted by: It Takes a Village to Convene a Grand Jury on March 30, 2012 11:30 AM
112. Too young to die
Black-on-black homicides, drop out rates, out-of-wedlock births, unemployment rates, fatherless families, and abortion statistics in the black community are ugly, messy, and simply--not sexy. Non-black on black crimes are very sexy if you earn your living race hustling and poverty pimpin'. For these "black organizations," there's gold in dem der white racist hills. ...

We're waiting for the President's commentary on this...

Yep, crickets from hypocrites.

Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on March 30, 2012 11:30 AM
113. @107 No, it doesn't imply that.

Posted by: Roger Rabbit on March 30, 2012 12:16 PM
114. @111 Thanks for the clarification. That's better. But let me add something this: The role of the private citizen in neighborhood policing should be to call 9-1-1 if he observes something that he thinks calls for police intervention. Untrained citizens shouldn't try to play cop, because there's too much likelihood they'll get themselves or someone else hurt. That's where George Zimmerman went wrong. He should have backed off when the 9-1-1 dispatcher told him, "We don't need you to do that."

Posted by: Roger Rabbit on March 30, 2012 12:20 PM
115. @114
The role of the private citizen in neighborhood policing should be to call 9-1-1 if he observes something that he thinks calls for police intervention.

George Zimmerman did call 9-1-1 when he observed something that he thought called for police intervention and he did back off when the 9-1-1 dispatcher told him, "We don't need you to do that."

Are you also ignorant of the facts or just stupid?

Posted by: Amused by Liberals on March 30, 2012 12:30 PM
116. Of course Roger's stupid, Amused, after all he's just a rodent.

Posted by: Saltherring on March 30, 2012 12:43 PM
117. That's where George Zimmerman went wrong.

False.

He should have backed off when the 9-1-1 dispatcher told him, "We don't need you to do that."

That's what Zimmerman did. He said "okay" and then was confronted by Martin as Zimmerman was headed to his own personal vehicle- which implies that Martin WENT BACK in order to confront Zimmerman. Martin escalated every action after Zimmerman agreed to stop "following" as the 911 dispatcher instructed. The bottom line is Martin (full of 17 year old bravado but no common sense) started the physical altercation and thus, is responsibile for his own death. Period. End of story.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 30, 2012 12:57 PM
118. Rick D.,
You are inferring that is what happened, but in looking back over the 911 call, it doesn't give evidence either way (what you inferred and also what I inferred). There is a gap in the timeline that cannot be filled in by the 911 tape. Martin's side of action can be filled in by his girlfriend's record. She was on the phone to Martin at the time he approached Zimmerman. Her account, however, wouldn't cover whether or not Zimmerman proceeded to head back to vehicle after the 911 operator stated that he didn't need to follow. All the 911 evidence can provide us is that Martin was running and that Zimmerman was following at the point of time when making the call. Any other inferences is reading into the account more than is recorded. My mistake in inferring more. Do you agree you also inferred additional evidence not present?

Posted by: tc on March 30, 2012 01:41 PM
119. @115 No, he did not back off when the police dispatcher told him, "We don't need you" to follow Trayvon Martin. It is you who is playing games with the facts. The altercation that led to Martin's death occurred after the police dispatcher told Zimmerman to leave well enough alone.

Posted by: Roger Rabbit on March 30, 2012 02:25 PM
120. No, he did not back off when the police dispatcher told him, "We don't need you" to follow Trayvon Martin

How do you know? I heard an audible "okay" after the dispatcher told him not to follow. Presumably, Zimmerman then left to his vehicle and that is where Martin confronted him. If indeed the shooting is near Zimmerman's vehicle, it only makes sense that the scenario that Zimmerman posited is plausible.

The altercation that led to Martin's death occurred after the police dispatcher told Zimmerman to leave well enough alone.

The altercation started when Martin physically attacked Zimmerman- an actual eye witness account saying Martin was on top and banging Zimmerman's noggin into the ground. Keep fantasizing this kid Martin was innocent, rodent. It just doesn't square with the facts in the case that I've heard so far.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 30, 2012 03:21 PM
121. Rick @120
Who is the actual eyewitness you are referring to?

By this CNN report, it doesn't list any direct eyewitnesses. Zimmerman's friend can only witness to what Zimmerman relayed to him. I don't see where he states that he witnessed the attack. Where did you find this?

Posted by: tc on March 30, 2012 03:42 PM
122. tc, you must be living in a news bubble. This is old news that there was a witness to Martin assaulting zimmerman. A portion of the clip by a Florida newscast with the witness can be found at:

http://subzinfo.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-incident-witness-says-martin-assaulted-zimmerman-video/

You really need to find more informative news sources than MSNBC and CNN.

Posted by: Rick D. on March 30, 2012 04:20 PM
123. @119
Sorry, my bad, I forgot that is what you liberal clowns do.
You just go ahead and make up your own facts and keep the story nice and neat for yourself there rabbit boy.
The rest of us will deal with reality and the actual facts on their own terms.

What remains (regardless) is the fact that Trayvon initiated forceful violence against an opponent and he lost his worthless life because he was not ready to do what was necessary to defend himself. Had he simply walked away as he should have done, he would be alive today and society would still have him to deal with.
Here on planet earth where us humans with common sense live, Trayvon flucked up.

What would you do there in your world rabbit, have your mommy stop things when they cease going going your way?

Posted by: Amused by Liberals on March 30, 2012 04:27 PM
124. @123

A great point. The expectation was that Zimmerman should have walked away. But it takes two to tango. Martin could have just as easily walked away as Zimmerman.

The media narrative of brown skinned people as helpless victims assumes that Martin could not have acted to diffuse the situation just as easily as Zimmerman. The onus is always on the lighter skinned actor to provide extra special accommodation to the darker skinned actor. That's the underlying assumption. And we see it will all things the Leftist establishment does.

The media and the Left wants not only the turnabout of all that is rational, but the sanction of the victim. No matter the facts, if you end up on the wrong side of the Leftist skin color equation, you are guilty and you should immediately repent AND sanction their one-way standard of justice.

Posted by: Jeff B. on March 31, 2012 09:58 AM
125. 123 & 124: The media-twisted perception (and agenda) regarding white vs black confrontations is that caucasians are always the oppressors/aggressors. One need look no further than national crime statistics to reveal the gross error in such a conclusion. Even black people state that they fear young black men. It is time black thugs were held accountable for their actions and behavior, in deference to political correctness and race-baiters Obama, Holder, Sharpton, Jackson, etc, etc.

Posted by: Saltherring on March 31, 2012 10:29 AM
126. If MSNBC cared about credibility and decency (maybe an outdated word), they would fire Al Sharpton for his attempt to fan the flames of violence and his racial hatred vs. white hispanics (i.e. Zimmerman) . I'd be surprised if they do, but it would really help their ratings.

Posted by: KDS on March 31, 2012 11:27 AM
127. MSNBC has only one purpose, that being to promote the twin causes of radical leftism and anti-Americaism, and such as it is, Sharpton and his evil, scandalous rhetoric serve those causes as well as any.

Posted by: Saltherring on March 31, 2012 12:09 PM
128. Notice Brer Rabbit runs when confronted with questions/facts/examples he can't/WON'T answer ...
The folktale achieved currency in the United States in written form in one of Joel Chandler Harris's Uncle Remus stories, a collection of stories based on African-American folklore, narrated by the fictional Uncle Remus, a former slave. In the story "Tar-Baby," the character Brer Fox makes a doll out of tar, which he places by the road to entrap his enemy Brer Rabbit. Brer Rabbit talks to the doll, and when it doesn't answer, he hits it, and gets stuck in the tar. The more he struggles with it, the more he is entangled in it.

Describes the rabbit coward exactly.


Outrages without protests

Delric Miller IV died in a hail of bullets a month ago. When someone fired 37 AK-47 rounds into his Detroit home at 4:30 a.m., he was mortally wounded while dozing on the couch. He was 9 months old.

No one made the multicolored teething ring he got for Christmas or his toy hammer into national symbols of random violence.

Last year, Charinez Jefferson, 17, was shot and killed on a Chicago street. "She begged the shooter not to shoot her because she was pregnant," a pastor explained. The alleged assailant, Timothy Jones, 18, shot her in the head, chest and back after seeing her walking with a rival gang member.

Shocking: Kade'jah Davis, 12, was killed by shots through the the front door of his Detroit home, allegedly fired in a dispute with his mother.

New York Times columnist Charles Blow did not write a column about Jefferson's killing as a symbol of the perils of being a young black woman in America.

Last June, a stray bullet from a confrontation on a Brighton Beach, N.Y., boardwalk killed 16-year-old Tysha Jones as she sat on a bench. A 19-year-old man, out for revenge after an earlier scuffle on the boardwalk, was charged in the shooting.

Tysha's heartbroken mother was not featured on all the national TV shows.

In January, 12-year-old Kade'jah Davis was shot and killed when, allegedly, 19-year-old Joshua Brown showed up at her Detroit house to demand the return of a cellphone from Davis' mother. When Brown didn't get the phone, he fired shots through the front door.

No one held high-profile street protests to denounce gunplay over such trifles.

I despise hypocrite punks like RR and his dishonest, faux outraged, hateful, 'racist of convenience', cowardly ilk.


Posted by: RagnarDanneskold on March 31, 2012 01:47 PM
129. I had a minor confrontation with a young black boy/man last evening involving him on foot and me in my vehicle driving home.
This boy dressed in a "hoodie" (not unlike Trayvon) went out of his way to incite a confrontation with me apparently simply because I am white and middle aged. It was entirely possible that he believed that I was some white liberal clown he could intimidate and easily overcome with an adrenaline rush and sweeping act of bravado. I am not.

Such stupid behaivor is not necessarily a black thing though; I remember the youthful days of raging angst and arrogant disbelief in my own mortality. But it shocked me to realize how utterly out matched he was and what a foolish thing he did by imitating Trayvon Martin, taunting and daring me to stop and engage his foolishness or run him over. He did this for effect.

Sure, in a fist fight he might well beat me up and hurt me badly or kill me, but like many who have been around awhile, I am a survivor and not stupid. I don't look for fights and I don't lose them by fighting anyone on even terms. The game he played (much like Trayvon) is a dangerous one where a great deal may be lost and nothing valuable may be gained and the odds were stacked so badly against him he had no idea what he was up against.

Most especially for the sake of confused hormonally addle-pated youths believing in a Black Panther myth of self-righteous racial superiority and ignorant racist payback mentality, I sincerely hope this doesn't continue. It would be very unwise to assume it will.

I predict a rash of these retributive confrontations, more black incited violence and more deaths.

It's too damned bad. I advise all black boys and men to wise up and look to yourself for solutions to life's problems. You have a black president now; why hate whites for your problems?
Become self reliant and quit listening to hate mongering race-pimp blacks like Sharpton, Jackson and others. Vote for conservative people who will open opportunities to you; not offer you hate, slavery, empty freebies, and perpetual poverty.

I advise all all white boys and men to get a carry permit, carry a loaded handgun, practice using it, profile young black men in hoodies, study your fallback strategies and rules of engagement, and keep your wisest wits about you. This is a serious game of racism and hate they are playing.
You will gain no peace or safety by pretending it will simply go away.

Posted by: Amused by Liberals on March 31, 2012 03:23 PM
130. Hey, TC, from the New York Times:

"However it started, witnesses described to the 911 dispatcher what resulted: the neighborhood watch coordinator, 5-foot-9 and 170 pounds, and the visitor, 6-foot-1 and 150, wrestling on the ground."

I thought you said Zimmerman was like twice Martin's size?

Posted by: Gary on April 2, 2012 07:50 AM
131. Here is an updated timeline and covers some of the conflicting witness statements. Also, here is what has been released as far as the police report. On height and weight, Zimmerman's weight is not listed anywhere. I am not sure where the 250 came from, so it can't be trusted. Martin's weight on the police report states 160, but his family claims he was taller but only 150. Being a teenager, the height and weight see in correct range. However, I doubt Zimmerman could not be just 170, given he is 5'9". This would put his BMI at 25. He looks more than that on the photo (video from police station). He probably doesn't look 250.

Regarding witnesses, there statements haven't been released by the police yet. The ones that have been reported do conflict (first link), which is typically the case. It has been demonstrated in numerous court cases that eyewitness testimony can only be trusted to a certain degree. What helps in this case is you have numerous eyewitnesses that saw or heard something, plus timeline given by calls (Zimmerman's to police and Martins with his girlfriend). So a timeline can be put together for all but a minute or two. I would look for common statements among the eyewitness testimony and discount the conflicts. I don't think you can take one witnesses testimony over another witness.

One other update: I see NBC is investigating the 911 audio it played, which was edited to exclude the 911 officer asking Zimmerman color of suspect. Hope NBC comes clean on this. It is poor journalism to have played the edited 911 recording.

Posted by: tc on April 2, 2012 10:41 AM
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