It's in the Constitution. Article I, Section 2.3 provides that an "enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by law direct." Congress, being what it is, almost immediately expanded the scope of the census beyond the basic constitutional requirement to apportion "Representatives and direct taxes... among the several states" according to population.
Wikipedia has an interesting history of the census. For instance, the 1860 Census collected data on "name, address, age, sex, color (white, black or mulatto) for each person, whether deaf and dumb, blind, insane or idiotic, value of real estate and of personal estate owned (required of all free persons), profession, occupation or trade of each male and female over 15 years of age, place (state, territory or country) of birth, whether married within the year, whether attended school within the year, whether unable to read and write (for persons over 20), whether a pauper or convict". Compared to the ten questions, including race, sex, and home ownership, on the 2010 Census form; the intrusion into one's privacy seems minimal. The Census Bureau also conducts annual surveys to collect various demographic, social and economic data. Economists and planners in both public and private sectors use census information for everything from budgeting to marketing. In rare instances, it has been misused, such as the internment of west coast Japanese during WWII, but in most cases the data collected is used for legitimate purposes.
Every ten years a chorus of census critics voice complaints from invasion of privacy to not counting everyone. Rush Limbaugh thinks we shouldn't divide people by race and suggests that people answer the question on race by checking the "Other" box and writing in "American". Some minority groups are concerned that the Census undercounts them and thus deprives their group representation. A few fear the Census recording the GPS location of their dwelling place, something already available on Google Earth.
It is a massive and expensive undertaking but it is not a conspiracy to undermine the Republic or the "Mark of the Beast". Worry about terrorist, the national debt, the IRS but lighten up on the Census and answer the questions honestly.
The government is not supposed to be representing races. Equality under the law is the goal of the constitution. It's long past time that question be removed from questionnaires nationwide.
Posted by: RBW on March 12, 2010 08:09 PMI'll start.
One!
That's all that needs to be done....a count. Anything more than that is creep from the Constitution and will resist.
Posted by: Matty on March 12, 2010 11:35 PMInteresting that conservatives tend to be so recalcitrant about being boxed into a racial group, while liberals seem willing, even happy to be so categorized.
Posted by: travis t on March 13, 2010 05:22 AMInteresting that conservatives tend to be so recalcitrant about being boxed into a racial group, while liberals seem willing, even happy to be so categorized.
Posted by: travis t on March 13, 2010 05:23 AMThe only real question should be are you a citizen or not. Any non-citizen legal or not is subject to removal from this country. All citizens are Americans. For many, including me there are not enough check boxes to determine race.
Posted by: Vince on March 13, 2010 05:40 AMWhen did black, white & brown become another race of humans???
I just love how the government loves to play with words in order to fit their needs.
Posted by: Medic/Vet on March 13, 2010 07:45 AMI posted something about this on facebook, and the one response I got that made sense was "so that the government can adjust gerrymandered districts to preserve votes by racial grouping". That sounds about right, and not something I support.
Posted by: jvon on March 13, 2010 11:09 AMWill the Census results cause more African American males to become responsible adults and marry the wives of their children? Of course it won't. 70% of African American children are born to single moms. The statistics will simply be used build more support for useless government programs that caused this disaster in the first place.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on March 13, 2010 11:23 AMAs I posted in a previous thread about the census:
As shown on the census' own website, states are meant to use this data to "determine federal, state and local voting districts" and that "race data is used ... to plan and obtain funds for public services".Posted by: It Takes A Village To Convene A Grand Jury on March 13, 2010 01:03 PMSo you believe that race should be a factor in determining voting districts and the funding of public services?
That sounds mighty racist to me!
Proposals for "sampling" based "adjustments" wave a big red danger flag IMO. Although such tuning of the results COULD be done methodically and scientifically, it creates such an open-ended risk of manipulation for political or corrupt ends (if these are different) that it probably shouldn't be done. Or, at the very least, both the raw counts and the "adjusted" counts should be posted side by side.
Speaking for future generations of genealogists, I'm sorry that the conduct of federal officials has engendered epidemic distrust of such a large part of our society. Not that the feds didn't earn that distrust, please note. But Census records are among the most useful family history research tools, when the detailed enumerations are declassified 70 years after the Census date.
Bham
Posted by: Bham on March 13, 2010 06:33 PMWhy is more needed if that is all the law requires?
Posted by: G Jiggy on March 13, 2010 09:10 PMROFLMAO!
Wikipedia?!?!
Used by liars, fools, and the abysmally lazy...
Posted by: juandos on March 14, 2010 08:20 AMWhen you get up from the floor and reattach your ass perhaps you could diligently provide us your wisdom filled reference source. I won't hold my breath.
"Correct me if I'm wrong here..."
Per your request, you are wrong. As Warren wrote in the first sentence of the post, the Constitution directs enumeration, not numeration.
The enumeration done in the census has always included cataloging beyond just a body count, and was never a count of only citizens. From the very first census in 1790 information was gathered about gender, race and property.
The original 1790 census form asked recipients to tally the number of free white men under 16, free white men over 16, free white women, free men of other races and slaves that lived in their households at any given time.
Naturally, the peanut gallery here is not interested in informing itself on this topic.
We now return to your regularly scheduled wingnut ranting
Socialism! ACORN!! Also too, FEMA Concentration Camps!!!
MikeBoyScout is all for intrusiveness by the Census commandos...
Gotta make sure you get some of that $400 billion in extorted tax dollars, eh?
Gee MikeBoyScout, what part of the following is in the Constitution?
Hospitals
Job training centers
Schools
Senior centers
Bridges, tunnels and other-public works projects
Emergency services
"Our job is to count everyone predominantly at the place where they reside," said Kate Martinson, director of the bureau's Southwest Virginia office in Christiansburg., Va.
If that is all that is needed, then why are they asking the other 9 questions? Answer: to expand and/or create entitlement programs run by the government and overseen by imbeciles (example: WA state DSHS).
The truth hurts sometimes
Posted by: Rick D. on March 14, 2010 09:58 AM"Census commandos"????
"extorted tax dollars"???
"Gee MikeBoyScout, what part of the following is in the Constitution?"
Gee, resident Constitutional and legal scholar, juandos, why do you think every action and every word of our government should be in the Constitution? For extra credit, in the 233 years of our nation's history, when did the federal government first do or say something that was not in the Constitution.
ps. When you reattached your ass after laughing it off, did you attach it to your neck? :-D
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on March 14, 2010 10:04 AMYes, the Census commandos are going to find out about you and put you in a FEMA Concentration Camp while they transform the nation in to a Socialist hell hole.
Did you see, the evil Socialist Obama and his ACORN minions extorted an hour of your time last night. :-o
DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME IS NOT in the Constitution!!
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on March 14, 2010 10:20 AMDepite your asinine red herring ranting, the fact remains that the census is about counting persons and not gathering information about race, socio-economic status or other personal information that violates my constitutional rights.
Take your head out of that orifice it currently resides in and take a deep breath for a change, Mike.
Posted by: Rick D. on March 14, 2010 11:11 AM"the fact remains that the census is about counting persons and not gathering information about race, socio-economic status or other personal information that violates my constitutional rights."
So, if you are correct why then are you not filing a lawsuit? Getting yourself arrested for non-compliance in an act of righteous civil disobedience? Running for elected office to obtain the support of the citizenry to fight and put an end to this injustice? Doing anything about the 210 year history of constitutional violations by census?
Could it be the fact remains that your facts are the unsubstantiated rantings of an asinine WINGNUT?
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on March 14, 2010 11:30 AM
Sorry Mike, but I nor others that fail to sheepishly fill out some form that violates my civil rights will not result in arrest. Only an ignorant fool would believe that my not answering 10 questions of which 8 are unconstitutional is some how illegal. Some of us still value the constitution in this counry; it's unfortunate you don't.
Posted by: Rick D. on March 14, 2010 11:56 AMIn 1990 I was tutoring a Japanese kid (he didn't really need my help!) when the census came to the door. I told Japanese Mom and the census worker that she didn't need to answer him, but of course she did.
Posted by: Fossil Freak on March 14, 2010 05:19 PMSo if you are going to make an issue of terminology, you might wish to get your terminology right.
Enumerate: to ascertain the number of, count (Latin: enumeratus: number)
Numerate: to represent numbers by symbols
I, for one, will be answering the question regarding how many people live in my household and no other. When the rude people come around to make me answer the other questions (which they do every year) I will politely point out that I have answered all the questions required by the Constitution and I will politely shut the door in their face.
Posted by: Calvin A on March 14, 2010 07:35 PMWe aren't going to play the census takers leftists games which seek to pigeonhole Americans into categories they can exploit for political gain.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on March 14, 2010 07:47 PMWe aren't going to play the census takers leftists games which seek to pigeonhole Americans into categories they can exploit for political gain.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on March 14, 2010 07:48 PMWe aren't going to play the census takers leftists games which seek to pigeonhole Americans into categories they can exploit for political gain.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on March 14, 2010 07:53 PMComparing it to other constitutional violations and saying "it's not as a bad" is an extremely poor argument tactic. It's still unconstitutional.
Economists and planners in both public and private sectors use census information for everything from budgeting to marketing.
So what? Is this supposed to convince me to participate? It doesn't. I couldn't care less about any of their work: it's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. What I care about, what the issue is about, is the government trying to unconstitutionally force me to participate.
in most cases the data collected is used for legitimate purposes.
Note that the advertisements for the census themselves highlight nothing but illegitimate uses: the ads all refer to participating in the census so that your community can get its "fair share" of government cheese. But of course, the federal government has no right to hand our such cheese, to provide data for state and local government to do it, and so on.
And, of course, many of the people who participate will, by answering the questions honestly, in fact get LESS government cheese than if they lie. Not that I would lie, since two wrongs don't make a right. I am just noting that the government ads are lies, and they highlight illegitimate uses for the census data: taking from Peter to give to Paul.
It is a massive and expensive undertaking but it is not a conspiracy to undermine the Republic
It IS a conspiracy to violate my Fourth and Tenth Amendment rights, in order to further violate my Tenth, and Fourteenth, Amendment rights. And I believe that undermines the Republic.
But let's be clear, warren: many of us (most?) are against the census demographic questions simply because the federal government has no right to force us to answer; has no right to spend money on the things they say they use the data for; and is generally being annoying and nosy. We don't see this as some grand conspiracy, we just believe it is wrong and we don't like it and, as we have no obligation to participate, we therefore do not.
answer the questions honestly
I refuse to answer them, because I have no obligation to do so, and their pretending that I do is in itself reason enough to not play along.
For another view, people might want to read my census post last month.
Oh, and "MikeBS," you're an idiot, as usual: first, they needed to know the number of slaves for the enumeration, and the rest they didn't need to know, and nobody had any obligation to answer it. You may recall the 1790s also saw the passage of the Sedition Act. Does that mean our interpretation of the First Amendment today is "misinformed"? They did a lot of wrong things in the 18th century, even by the Constitution and Bill of Rights they had just made into law.
The original Constitution reads, "Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons."
The 14th Amendment modified this, and it reads, "Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed."
We count "the whole number of persons in each state," not citizens. And lest you think that they MEANT citizens, no, not at all, because the 14th Amendment discusses citizens in some detail, but in this particular part of the amendment it refers to persons, not citizens.
So far from being treason or hypocrisy, the Constitution requires illegal aliens to be counted by the Census.
You can answer anything these corrupt scoundrels ask you, but don't dismiss the rights of those of us out here who don't choose to draw the same line as you of the abuses we will tolerate and which we will not. This government has turned us all against each other using the information we foolishly turn over to it. If they didn't have all this information to exploit, perhaps they'd follow Martin Luther King's calls for a colorblind society. I doubt it, but that's a good enough argument for me.
Posted by: Reality on March 14, 2010 09:55 PMSo I have kids now, and their mother is Asian. When we go to Asia, they are stared at and adored and spoken about everywhere we go. That's Asia. I really do NOT want them to be part of some racial scorecard in America. They get enough of that crap when they're visiting relatives overseas. Here, they are American plain and simple. One of my kids looks 100% caucasian anyway. My wife's mother's father was European and probably his genes are coming through too.
So I refused to enter race on the first census, that was in the late 1990s as I recall. I wrote some note on the form "I refuse to answer this". Lo and behold, some scraggly lady shows up knocking on my door with my census form in hand, and she demands to know what race we are. I said WHAT!?! She said she needs to know our race. So I gathered my kids up, stood in front of the door, and told her to figure it out. Then shut the door.
Fast forward to the last census, which was just a few years ago as I recall. I just flat out refused to answer the race form. I wrote "uncertain of DNA". This time I got a call, from someone who might be named Shaleequah. She tried as hard as she could to get me to say what race I and my kids are, and I just said that if the law requires a DNA test I will have to take it. Until then, I really do not know. My grandfather said he has no idea where he came from, and my wife was born in Asia but we do not have any DNA tests to get a specific haplotype.
Posted by: GV on March 15, 2010 12:21 AMSo I have kids now, and their mother is Asian. When we go to Asia, they are stared at and adored and spoken about everywhere we go. That's Asia. I really do NOT want them to be part of some racial scorecard in America. They get enough of that crap when they're visiting relatives overseas. Here, they are American plain and simple. One of my kids looks 100% caucasian anyway. My wife's mother's father was European and probably his genes are coming through too.
So I refused to enter race on the first census, that was in the late 1990s as I recall. I wrote some note on the form "I refuse to answer this". Lo and behold, some scraggly lady shows up knocking on my door with my census form in hand, and she demands to know what race we are. I said WHAT!?! She said she needs to know our race. So I gathered my kids up, stood in front of the door, and told her to figure it out. Then shut the door.
Fast forward to the last census, which was just a few years ago as I recall. I just flat out refused to answer the race form. I wrote "uncertain of DNA". This time I got a call, from someone who might be named Shaleequah. She tried as hard as she could to get me to say what race I and my kids are, and I just said that if the law requires a DNA test I will have to take it. Until then, I really do not know. My grandfather said he has no idea where he came from, and my wife was born in Asia but we do not have any DNA tests to get a specific haplotype.
Posted by: GV on March 15, 2010 12:22 AM1. How many people live at this address?
2. How many are over the age of 18?
3. How many are eligable to vote?
Posted by: Mathew "RennDawg" Renner on March 15, 2010 12:31 AM"It IS a conspiracy to violate my Fourth and Tenth Amendment rights, in order to further violate my Tenth, and Fourteenth, Amendment rights. And I believe that undermines the Republic [even though the census has been part of the republic since its inception 210 years ago]."
"I refuse to answer them [census questions], because I have no obligation to do so, and their pretending that I do is in itself reason enough to not play along."
Yeah, the professed scofflaw claiming conspiracies says I'm the idiot. That's rich.
Socialism! ACORN!! Also too, CONSPIRACIES to violate Fourth and Tenth Amendment rights, in order to further violate Tenth, and Fourteenth, Amendment rights!!!!
MikeBS: I just stated what is obviously true. They are obviously violating the Constitution. They plan out what they are doing. Therefore they are conspiring to violate the Constitution.
Maybe you have a problem with the definition of "conspire" just like you do with "enumerate"?
"You may recall the 1790s also saw the passage of the Sedition Act"
No, I know that the first census was accomplished by Thomas Jefferson in 1790 and that it asked questions about race, status, gender and property. I also know four separate laws making up what is commonly referred to as the "Alien and Sedition Acts" were not passed until 1798, 8 years after the first census and had no bearing on the census of 1800.
But you are just a 2nd rate propagandist who professes conspiracy theories and advocates breaking the law. :-D
No
Huh. Well, it did.
I also know four separate laws making up what is commonly referred to as the "Alien and Sedition Acts" were not passed until 1798
I don't know why you bring up the Alien Acts. I was talking about the Sedition Act. The others are irrelevant to anything I am talking about.
But now you admit that the Sedition Act was passed in the 1790s, despite first denying you knew it. That's really weird of you.
8 years after the first census and had no bearing on the census of 1800.
You appear to stupidly believe I was trying to draw some relationship to the census of 1790 and the Alien and Sedition Acts. But I never mentioned the Alien Acts at all. I have no idea what you think I was trying to say, but what I actually said is clear: your point was that we've always done it, even in the 1790s, and my explicitly stated point was that just because we did something in the 1790s doesn't mean it isn't blatantly unconstitutional: the Sedition Act is the most obvious and perfectly clear example.
It does not matter if we demanded people report things other than the number of free people and slaves. It was wrong to do so, in violation of the Fourth and Tenth Amendments, as it is today.
"It was wrong to do so, in violation of the Fourth and Tenth Amendments,"
This is your uninformed and unsupported opinion. In 210 years no court has ever even considered such a ridiculous argument. Specifically the author of the 4th amendment, James Madison, never expressed this opinion and was the president of the United States for the 1810 census.
"You appear to stupidly believe I was trying to draw some relationship to the census of 1790 and the Alien and Sedition Acts."
I don't believe you were drawing a relationship, you brought up the Sedition Act.
If it was stupid to attempt to relate the Sedition Act to the 1790 census, look in the mirror and introduce yourself to stupid.
Are questions beyond a simple count Constitutional?
It is constitutional to include questions in the decennial census beyond those concerning a simple count of the number of people. On numerous occasions, the courts have said the Constitution gives Congress the authority to collect statistics in the census. As early as 1870, the Supreme Court characterized as unquestionable the power of Congress to require both an enumeration and the collection of statistics in the census. The Legal Tender Cases, Tex.1870; 12 Wall., U.S., 457, 536, 20 L.Ed. 287. In 1901, a District Court said the Constitution's census clause (Art. 1, Sec. 2, Clause 3) is not limited to a headcount of the population and "does not prohibit the gathering of other statistics, if 'necessary and proper,' for the intelligent exercise of other powers enumerated in the constitution, and in such case there could be no objection to acquiring this information through the same machinery by which the population is enumerated." United States v. Moriarity, 106 F. 886, 891 (S.D.N.Y.1901).In 2000, another District Court agreed and found that it there is no constitutional limit on collecting additional data, when necessary for governance. That court also said responses to census questions are not a violation of a citizen's right to privacy or speech. Morales v. Daley, 116 F. Supp. 2d 801, 809 and 816. (S.D. Tex. 2000). These decisions are consistent with the Supreme Court's recent description of the census as the "linchpin of the federal statistical system ... collecting data on the characteristics of individuals, households, and housing units throughout the country." Dept. of Commerce v. U.S. House of Representatives, 525 U.S. 316, 341 (1999).
But obviously the courts are part of the 210 year census conspiracy, right pudge??? :-D
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on March 15, 2010 07:38 AMI just think the answers will be used for wrong purposes and therefore choose to not get involved.
I'll answer those questions that might be handy to my local fire department like how many people live in my home, but the questions on race, etc. will be answered with "I'm not sure and don't want to give a wrong answer."
Posted by: johnny on March 15, 2010 08:26 AMI'm DEFINITELY not answering the questions about (3) home ownership, (6) sex, and (8&9) on race.
Why? Because they're not authorized in the Constitution, they invade my privacy, and they may be used to discriminate against me on the basis of my wealth, sex or race.
If govt bureaucrats want such statistics about the US, they can conduct a statistical survey using random sampling and get the same information for MUCH less money, and preserve our privacy.
Everyone is free to sacrifice their own rights and privacy. But advocating that laws be used to punish others who value their rights is immoral. Answering the census questions not required by the Constitution must remain voluntary.
And no, I do not trust the government with this kind of information. Knowledge is power, and the govt has seized WAY too much of that lately.
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on March 15, 2010 10:25 AM
MikeBS: I have no response to your ignorant attacks on the Constitution, or your flailing about in trying to dismiss your introduction of the Alien Acts to the discussion.
But obviously the courts are part of the 210 year census conspiracy, right pudge?
Yes, they are, of course. Everyone realizes the government is continually conspiring to take more and more power from the people, in violation of the words and spirit of the Constitution. The Democrats of today are explicitly devoted to that goal, and many of the judges in the court system are their willing allies.
you are a pathetic 2nd rate propagandist masquerading as a concern troll.
It is telling that in 2007 you could not and did not find time to understand what the Census bureau, under the Bush administration, was proposing as the questions planned to be asked in the 2010 census and voice your concerns of constitutional over reach and perils to our republic.
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on March 15, 2010 02:36 PMIN ISRAEL.
No joke. I wish it was.
So it's not enough for them to have illegals voting!
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=171019
Posted by: Alex on March 15, 2010 06:12 PMONOZ! Democrats are conducting registration drives in Israel?
Isn't that unconstitutional?
Socialist ACORNS are no doubt involved.
Have you contacted BigGovernment.propoganda and Michele Malkin?
Probably you should alert the folks at Republicans Abroad International
Republicans Abroad Israel is working on a direct mailing campaign, targeting Ohioans living in Israel. This new RA Chapter is hard at work getting the vote out, as Israel is home to some 250,000 U.S. citizens. They have held several voter registration drives and are working with the Republican Jewish Coalition in Washington, DC to find untapped resources to help fund their efforts.
...because it appears RA is now defunct. :-D
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on March 15, 2010 06:37 PMBe sure to send a letter to webmaster@census.gov as if you had a reasonable expectation of it being read showing how high minded and courageous you are in defending your unspecified imaginary rights. Go the extra mile and warn the Census Bureau you will come down on their organization, very hard, with civil rights violations charges if their agency or another of the federal government attempts to force you to comply with the law.
You and your conspiracy minded wingnut buddies go crazy with not being counted.
The world looks forward to your outrage and rants when wingnuts are under counted.
This reminds me of how McCain raised money in the UK in 2008.
Neither party represents America anymore.
Posted by: Alex on March 15, 2010 08:27 PMSo? I don't CARE what questions they planned. I knew I wouldn't answer them, because they are unconstitutional. Are you trying to imply I am only attacking the census because it is under Obama? That doesn't even pass the smell test. My arguments against the census have been consistent and unwavering for more than 10 years.
Be sure to send a letter to webmaster@census.gov as if you had a reasonable expectation of it being read showing how high minded and courageous you are in defending your unspecified imaginary rights. Go the extra mile and warn the Census Bureau you will come down on their organization, very hard, with civil rights violations charges if their agency or another of the federal government attempts to force you to comply with the law.
Yep. They know there's a great chance they would end up losing any resulting case, which is why it's been nearly 50 years since they've tried.
You and your conspiracy minded wingnut buddies go crazy with not being counted.
Except, as usual, you're being a liar: Rick D., and I, said nothing about refusing to answer the enumeration questions. We said exactly the opposite.
As I said above, Mike BS, I will fulfill my obligation as to "enumeration" and nothing further. If they juvenilely choose not to count my household even though I've answered my constitutional obligations, that's not my problem...nor is that my fault. Personally, I think you, like most liberals, are bent out of shape because some of us refuse to meekly conform obediently as you do.
Power to the sheeple,Mike.
Posted by: Rick D. on March 15, 2010 08:37 PMSince our Constitution also explicitly grants our federal government the power to run a Post Office, it stands to reason our federal government would want to know how many literate persons we have, and where they reside. As representation is apportioned by the number of citizens residing in a state, our government needs to know how many residents are citizens.
Ah, who cares? ACORN!! BLACK HELICOPTERS!!1! I personally hope the teabaggers in the red states show us evil libs, by burning all of their census forms. I'm sick of my tax dollars going to such ingrates anyway.
Posted by: tensor on March 15, 2010 08:57 PMActually, Mike Boy Scout was shouting "Socialism, Acorn!!"
After all these years of lefties beating decent people over the head with political correctness it's great to see them completely lose it.
And it only took them a bit over a year to blow what they believed was a massive political advantage. Surprise!
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on March 15, 2010 10:20 PMWhy do I find it not fascinating that Bill doesn't use proper punctuation?
(You do know the ACORN story has been debunked, right?)
I was going to make some noise about Rotten Boroughs and the Reforms of the 1830s, but what could English history possibly have to do with American history? WOLVERINES!
Posted by: tensor on March 15, 2010 10:29 PMYou're a liar. No one did that.
... it stands to reason our federal government would want to know ...
They can want to know anything they wish. But without a warrant, they cannot compel me to provide it to them.
Ah, who cares? ACORN!! BLACK HELICOPTERS!!1!
You're a liar. The overwhelming majority of complaints are simply, "they have no right to do this," not, "I am afraid of what will happen if they do this."
I'm sick of my tax dollars going to such ingrates anyway.
YOU are the ingrate. You are the one who pushes trillions of dollars of spending of other people's money against their will, for your own selfish and greedy purposes, and then gripes when those taxpayers want to spend a little less.
(You do know the ACORN story has been debunked, right?)
No one here except you and MikeBS have even mentioned ACORN (except Bill, and now me, to point out this fact). So, as usual: you're a liar.
"Why do I find it fascinating that tensor mirrors Mike Boy Scout's rant at #52, "ACORN!! BLACK HELICOPTERS!!""
Well, it couldn't be because you are a complete maroon could it Bill?
Speaking of losing it, give us an update on your unhinged vendetta
We know it is someone who comments on Sound Politics. We're are going to find whoever it is. Were are going to take them to court. They are going to prison. Perhaps for a long time. If they want to play with me I'll blow their damned heads off. I'm more than ready for them. They'll get what they deserve. I'm taking legal action against whoever the person is that threatened my family. I am going after this nasty jerk. I'll do everything in my power to see that these dreadful people get a long enjoyable vacation at the graybar hotel. We have lots of law enforcement people in our family. You picked the wrong people to play with.
How's that going? :-D
Why do I find it funny that everything in your power gets nothing done?
Now, go burn your census questionnaire for freedom you maroon.
No, that, in fact, couldn't be it. You made up an argument no one was using, and then tensor mirrored that same fallacious argument. That is, indeed, somewhat fascinating.
Speaking of losing it, give us an update on your unhinged vendetta
He received a threatening phone call. It is not only perfectly rational, but also perfectly legal, to warn people that if they try to carry out a threat, that they will be met with lethal resistance.
Now, go burn your census questionnaire
You're, again, a liar. Bill never implied he would not fill out PART OF the census form.
I wonder if it is possible for you to post WITHOUT lying? It doesn't seem so.
That depends on the meaning of "here". No one mentioned it in this thread, but "Michele" wrote "ACORN was charged with helping hire people for the census" on March 10 in another census thread right here on SoundPolitics.
You admit "No one mentioned it in this thread." Proving your lies is too easy when you admit you're lying.
That's projection. You are all three pathetic, second rate, and a propagandist. You prove you're not fit to shine Pudge's shoes when you write.
Posted by: Matt M on March 16, 2010 06:01 PMA message from the Director, U.S. Census Burea... This is your official 2010 Census form. We need your help to count everyone in the United states by providing basic information about the people living in this house or apartment....[emphasis added]
..and that is exactly what I've provided them, basic information.If someone does drop by to try to obtain further information, I'll remind them that I'm abiding by the words from the director of the Census in the leaflet and have fulfilled my obligation to provide basic information for their count.
Posted by: Rick D. on March 16, 2010 06:05 PMThat's what you get when you disagree with the peace loving, tolerant left.
Yes, he is being investigated.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on March 16, 2010 06:07 PMHowever, while I answered the questions, some were answered with NYOB-None Of Your Business, NBBM-Nobodys Business But Mine and the answer to the race question was Human. I don't think they'll come after me, but I am ready if they do. I will accept my fate.
Posted by: Mathew "RennDawg" Renner on March 17, 2010 04:22 AM"MikeBoyScout chose a couple of months ago to attempt to scare me and my wife, including a threatening telephone call. Yes, he is being investigated."
Bill Cruchon is full of shit. Investigated? Would that be by lots of law enforcement people in [y]our family.? Or by the imanginary police force of your addled mind? :-D
We'd all love to read the police report you filed, you batshit crazy wingnut. Post the report number so we can assist you in your investigation.
"I don't think they'll come after me, but I am ready if they do. I will accept my fate."
You are a hero willing to be martyred for the cause of freedom!!
Hopefully if a census worker shows up at a cost of $56 dollars versus $0.42 to get answers to the questions where you inserted your patriotic freedom loving, constitution defending, conspiracy fighting alphabet soup, the experience won't cause you to faint or wet yourself. :-D
If they show up, why don't you spoof Nathan Hale?
I am so satisfied with the cause in which I have engaged that my only regret is that I have not more witty non-responses to the census to offer in its service.
Fight the Power!
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on March 17, 2010 05:40 AMApparently the government has conflated "enumeration" with "classification" which is what this 2010 census form is asking me to put myself in in several of the 10 questions. I put N/A for those that have nothing to do with enumeration. Don't like that? Call 1-800-Get-Bent
Posted by: Rick D. on March 17, 2010 06:14 AMAs usual, you're a liar.
Yes, you caught me.
The Christian Science Monitor, the Webmaster at census.gov, President Obama and I are engaged in a conspiracy to imperil the republic by publishing false cost data comparisons on how much it costs the government if residents mail back their census form (42 cents each), compared with the estimated cost of obtaining a household's census response in person if a household fails to mail back the form.
Your instincts at sniffing out the conspiracy put the lie to your being a pathetic 2nd rate propagandist. Or did I just LIE! about that? :-D
Just for our edification, can you provide us how much time passes between your comments and/or posts before you accuse someone you disagree with with being a liar or lying? I've yet to find a thread you have ever commented on where you don't.
:-p
No doubt, if you reply you'll accuse me of being a liar. Obviously you know that I've found a thread where you did not accuse someone of being a liar. Just like you know that CSM is lying about cost comparison. You are so clairvoyant!
Your lie was in that the person you were responding to, RennDawg, DID fill out the form, and gave strong indication that he WOULD mail it back.
Don't get mad at me just because I am far smarter than you are, and you can't get your lies past me.
Mike BS's links to the CSM are conflicting. In his linked story above it states:
* Which states might get cheated?
In 2000, Florida, Georgia, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, and North Carolina each had below-average mail participation rates...
yet in the link in that article to the "Census 2010", they say the following:
*How will census results be used?
The primary purpose of the census is to determine the apportioning of seats in the US House of Representatives. As a result of the 2000 Census, 18 states gained or lost seats. The biggest winners were Arizona, Florida, Georgia, and Texas, which each picked up two seats....a political data consulting firm, has predicted that the 2010 Census will result in a shift of 13 seats, with Texas potentially gaining four.
I still haven't heard any Democrat/Liberal/Regressive here explain how "basic information" extends to identifying what island in "pacific islander" you would self identify as and how that relates to "enumeration".
Posted by: Rick D. on March 17, 2010 09:08 PMI am not complaining about he cost. I know it is expensive and I know the Census has to be done. I also have no objections to counting non-citizens since it is supposed to count everyone. I object to some of the questions. I answered human on the race question. I reject the concept of race. God only made one race of people the Human race. They may come in different colours and shapes but there all one race. I do not give my phone number to just anyone. So I don't see why you don't like me.
Posted by: Mathew "RennDawg" Renner on March 17, 2010 10:25 PMIf the US government (i.e. our elected representatives) choose to spend $56 dollars to get the 6 answers I did not answer because they had no relation to "enumeration" called for in the US Constitution, then that is their problem- and just another example of government ignorance and incompetence. Baaaaaaaaahhh!
Power to the Sheeple!
Posted by: Rick D. on March 17, 2010 10:49 PMPudge also largely gets it right when he argues that they did a lot of wrong things in the 18th century, even by the Constitution and Bill of Rights. These are things a person must take the time to read law and history to actually understand, and the reason why someone like Pudge has it right and MikeBoyScout (as usual) has no idea whatsoever what he is writing about. I am amused by MikeBoyScout's groundless inanity and appreciative of Pudge's scholarship.
However, MikeBoyScout is correct . . . Pudge reflexively calls anyone he disagrees with a "LIAR". A good argument stands on its own and Pudge's use of such mindless (and dishonest) tactics diminishes everything he says. While MikeBoyScout is a notorious liar, not everything he writes is a lie. Pudge doesn't seem to recognize that by being petty like a liberal, his silly tactics spoil everything else that he says.
In stark contrast, given the even handed way Bill Cruchon comments, when he writes (@ #80) that MikeBoyScout chose a couple of months ago to attempt to scare him and his wife, including a threatening telephone call, and that MikeBoyScout is being investigated, I believe him and so should everyone else. Bill Cruchon has the credibility to make such a claim where Pudge does not. MikeBoyScout's comments demonstrate the attitude of a spite-driven, vicious, and empty brained partisan who follows openly dishonest people like Hussein Obama. His demeanor justifies the belief that he might commit cowardly blind-side pursuits (threats and crank calls) so long as he never places his own safety at risk.
Pudge has openly lied in order to provide himself with an excuse to ban some commenters (including me) from his threads simply because (as in my case) they decisively defeat his point of view. Where MikeBoyScout's serial liberal style dishonesty is annoying, Pudge's dishonesty is alarming. We expect people like MikeBoyScout to act dishonestly because his world view and nearly everything associated with is is dishonest. Pudge's actions disappoint because they invite a partisan hack like MikeBoyScout to honestly and fairly claim the high ground even when he is wrong.
Not amusing Pudge . . . wise up.
Posted by: Amused by Liberals on March 19, 2010 11:16 AM