January 27, 2010
Oregon Voters Hike Taxes

By a 54% "yes" vote, Oregon voters approved one measure to raise taxes on the wealthy (defined as income of $125,000 for singles, $250,000 for couples) and another to increase business taxes.

Predictions:

1. Oregon's unemployment rate will increase
2. Oregon will have a net outflow of businesses
3. Oregon will have a net outflow of "wealthy" people
4. The income from the tax increases will fall short of projections
5. The tax cancer will spread to other Democrat led states


Posted by warrenpeterson at January 27, 2010 03:22 PM | Email This
Comments
1. and this helps create much-needed jobs HOW?? It's to be noted that Oregonians rejected other more general tax increases.

But what we see here is that they were willing to raise taxes on everyone else but themselves. Nothing admirable whatsoever about that. Why not put a general tax increase on everyone on Oregon's ballot, if everyone wanted higher taxes? Ah, but they didn't want that---they just wanted higher taxes on other people. Liberals continue to kill the golden goose--and then wonder why the goose wore out.

Posted by: Michele on January 27, 2010 03:47 PM
2. Class warfare sells, and the left coast is buying.

Will be tougher to do here though, but I'm sure Gregoire will figure out a way to hit up everyone so they can keep growing government.

Posted by: Palouse on January 27, 2010 03:47 PM
3.
On the other hand, if it drives all the obnoxious Californians away, and makes the houses and living cheap again, then...

Posted by: Less is more on January 27, 2010 03:53 PM
4. The biggest raise I ever got was leaving Oregon.

Posted by: Andy on January 27, 2010 04:05 PM
5. A sign of things to come? Our resident Dingbat weighed in on the Oregon vote.

"Oregon voters met the challenge of these difficult times and clearly said that schools, healthcare, public safety and other essential services cannot be forsaken. It is gratifying to see that the public understands the importance of preserving services to the most needy and providing education to the next generation--especially now when those efforts are most needed."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politicsnorthwest/2010904073_green_light_for_tax_increases.html

Will we be ignorant enough to fall for this line again? Probably. By the way, I voted no on my recent school levy in Edmonds district. I'm tired of hearing "it's for the children" to cover up inept leadership squandering our tax money.

Posted by: Rick D. on January 27, 2010 04:14 PM
6. It just shows a classic failure to understand economics. People today are very mobile, especially the high earners. And if you punish them for staying put, they won't stay put.

Their folly is our reward. If there are individuals in Oregon who are fed up with high income taxes, there's a happy place to settle just across the river. Washington's income tax rate is 0.0% and it's not graduated.

We should welcome these refugees with open arms!

Posted by: AD on January 27, 2010 05:00 PM
7. Hey, it's always easy to vote for a tax increase for someone else.

BTW, OFM sent this today: HB 3070, titled AN ACT Relating to fiscal reform, has been introduced in the House of Representatives.

i.e. the Income Tax bill. And even though it "eliminates" and "reduces" some state taxes, it still manages to haul in an additional $3 billion a year on average.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on January 27, 2010 05:08 PM
8. Tax hikes worked so well in NY, Michigan and California, why not Oregon? God bless 'em.

Posted by: jimt. on January 27, 2010 06:21 PM
9. This is what happens when you don't teach history. The federal income tax was just a small tax on the rich.

It never stops there. Inflation will mean that pretty soon $125,000 is poverty level.

Posted by: Vince on January 27, 2010 06:40 PM
10. What else is New? Governments are always looking for ways to Increase Taxes by any means possible. They will work any schemes to accomplish their goals. They will sometimes play the game of giving some Tax relief yet, at the same time, will bring forward a new Tax that will bring in more revenue than before the so-called Tax relief. What a Con game!

Yes, runaway Government and Taxes will eventually collapse Society into Poverty and few Freedoms. Such a Deal!

Posted by: Daniel on January 27, 2010 06:42 PM
11. "Oregon Voters remove brains"

Posted by: VRWC on January 27, 2010 07:23 PM
12. Oregon and Washington are very similar. Both are very conservative states ruled by a geographic minority in the west, from populous counties full of loons.

We would be better off if these states were split east-west instead of north-south.

Posted by: Seabecker on January 27, 2010 08:16 PM
13. Perfect. Oregon is going to find out the hard way that you can't tax to prosperity. You never have to worry about leftists in the long run. Because in the long run they will seal their own fate.

Posted by: Jeff B. on January 27, 2010 09:21 PM
14. they just wanted higher taxes on other people

michele,

if you bothered to look on a map, you'd have seen the wealther communities voted this in, while the poorer rural communities voted against.
washington county (beaverton): 53%
multnomah (portland): 71.3%
lane (eugene): 64.4%

wheeler and malheur (two of the poorest in OR): 34%

and the poorer communities will get more out of what they voted against.

but do you really think people will move over $150? i promise they won't.

washington is a conservative state? not by a longshot. that 'geographic minority' happens to be a significant majority of votes, jobs and wealth for the state.

Posted by: mike on January 27, 2010 11:07 PM
15. Oregon has always been an economic backwater, these votes will only hasten their descent into economic Californication.

Posted by: Gay Republican on January 27, 2010 11:13 PM
16. Oregon has always been an economic backwater, these votes will only hasten their descent into economic Californication.

Posted by: Gay Republican on January 27, 2010 11:13 PM
17. And if none of the author's five simplistic and shallow predictions come true, I'm sure he'll publish a post here, showing how he was wrong, and explaining why.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Posted by: tensor on January 28, 2010 12:09 AM
18. Tensor, are you suggesting that as a result of higher taxes on business that:

1. Oregon's unemployment rate will decrease
2. Oregon will have a net inflow of businesses
3. Oregon will have a net inflow of "wealthy" people
4. The income from the tax increases will exceed projections
5. The tax cancer will spread to other Democrat led states

Thanks.

Posted by: Gary on January 28, 2010 08:05 AM
19. #1 "But what we see here is that they were willing to raise taxes on everyone else but themselves."

And, of course, the business' will increase the price of their goods/services that these very same voters purchase.

Posted by: Gary on January 28, 2010 08:11 AM
20. Even Joe Biden agrees:

"Well, I say, they're going to start to see unemployment grow this spring."

Posted by: Gary on January 28, 2010 09:23 AM
21. Voters in Oregon as well as nationally are learning important lessons. They want to be placated by rhetoric of class warfare, promises that government will solve their problems, etc. But such economic policy has never been successful. Better that OR and WA descend in to economic ruin, and states like SC reap the benefits. It is only through enough pain that voters will wake up to reality. Voters in OR and WA are a lot like hopeless drug addicts. You try intervetions and treatment programs, you try to reach out. But at some point you realize if they can't find their way back to a clean life, then there's nothing you can do to save them.

Better to focus on oneself and making money and let those who wait for Democrats to provide answers to their problems to suffer and learn the hard way.

Posted by: Jeff B. on January 28, 2010 09:28 AM
22. #21 Well said...and very, very true. Lo siento mucho! :)

Posted by: Duffman on January 28, 2010 09:45 AM
23. This is why we'll never have an income tax here. The viscous jealousy exhibited in taking taxes from defenseless people to give it to helpless people. Sold as a 'wise' decision to the 'people' the only winner are entitled union members that continue to throw the freedom of the market out the window and ultimately tighten the shackles around their own wrists.
I can't find anywhere a nation or a state has been successful with this strategy???
Oregonians....you have been had.
Washingtonians hell no on an income tax.

Posted by: Col. Hogan on January 28, 2010 12:54 PM
24. I own a business in Oregon, and I will be raising my prices. I don't pay taxes: my customers do. Business is simply the middleman. It's sad that most people don't realize this.

Posted by: Touchstone on January 28, 2010 03:07 PM
25. mike @14. Higher taxes ALWAYS mean lower tax revenues. Lower taxes ALWAYS mean higher tax revenues. There are no documented long term exceptions to this rule.

Washington and Oregon are conservative states by geography, not by population. If you have a big map and throw a dart at it blindfolded, chances are very good you will hit a conservative community. It is only the smaller but more populated urban areas where liberal loonacy prevails.

The poorest counties will be hit by this tax increase the hardest. This is because they have less of a financial buffer. Businesses must raise prices and/or lay off workers to survive. This will be felt much harder in Wheeler county than in Multnomah.

Posted by: Seabecker on January 28, 2010 03:39 PM
26. The Wall Street Journal has an excellent editorial on this topic in today's edition. I am amazed at how many people consistently think such taxes are on the "other guy". That was the intent of the AMT and look where that got us. Oregon is already struggling with a weak economy and between this tax and Boeing heading east, things are going to get worse.

As for soaking the rich, I think Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos have created more living wage jobs than the two stadiums that cost taxpayers a billion dollars. For those who still think this is the way to go, be careful what you wish for. Taxing the "rich" and "evil corporations" lead to faltering economies. Michigan is a prime example.

Posted by: Burdabee on January 28, 2010 03:54 PM
27. I think maybe this year I can hire two new people. Oh, wait... my taxes are going up? Oh well. So much for that.

(so, not only are there two people out there who *could* have been paying new income taxes, but they also stay on the dole now and suck revenue away from the state)

Good going there, Oregon.


Posted by: Gary on January 28, 2010 04:43 PM
28. Businesses NEVER pay taxes. Everything is passed straight to the consumer. Businesses are generally owned by wealthier individuals, if you tax them more they will hire less people, to keep their cost of living level. Sucks to be an unemployed person in that case.

Posted by: John on January 28, 2010 04:59 PM
29. California: Health Care Bill Advances
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/health/policy/29brfs-HEALTHCAREBI_BRF.html

California is ridiculous! They are already broke!

Posted by: Tim on January 28, 2010 09:48 PM
30. seapecker,

you might want to recheck your history books. not all bush tax cuts increased revenue, e.g. they do not ALWAYS raise revenue.

conservative by geography, while making the state actually seem like it would swing to the right, is a completely illogical way to measure a state's political makeup.

and to claim that conservative idocy only exists in the rural regions is, frankly, equally retarded.

the poorest counties won't be hit the hardest, as that's not where the majority of the wealth lies and those making less than $125/250k won't see additional taxes.

gary,

if you really can't hire people because of a $140 tax increase - could you really have afforded to hire two people? yeah, i didn't think so. even with the tax increases, oregon (like washington) is one of the best states for business.

Posted by: mike on January 28, 2010 10:25 PM
31. The Asset Tax:
"
Tonys plan allows the first $100,000 of accrued monies to be tax exempt, as well as the value of your primary (living residence) would also be tax exempt. This Asset tax would, of course, replace all current Federal taxes the personal and corporate income tax, FICA taxes, etc.

Beyond that, the total of your assets would be taxed incrementally, maybe 5% on assets from $101,000 $10 million, 8% on assets between $10 million to $50 million, 10% on assets from $50 million to $100 million, 15% on assets between $101 million and $500 million 20% on assets between $501 Million and $1 Billion, 25% on assets of over $1 Billion.
"

http://workingclassconservative.blogspot.com/2007/01/asset-tax.html

Posted by: Middle Class Hero on January 28, 2010 10:37 PM
32. The tipping point.

A few buddies of mine and I have talked about this for quite a few years now and it looks like it is finally here. When will a majority of the voters start voting themselves other people money? It happened in Oregon and expect this type of populism to expand to Washington vie Gregoire. There are now more voters who think anybody but them should be taxed more and that "the rich" owe them something. Crafty politicians like Gregoire will jump on this trend like stink on you-know-what.

The long term agenda of our government run madrassas is to cripple the "graduates" enough through not teaching economic basics and other needed skills to smell the government rat so that this sort of "free" entitlement is expected.

Little do any of the dim bulbs in Oregon who voted in these increases know that this will succeed in making them exactly like Detroit, New York (state & city) and California are now. Net out-migration of tax payers and business owners and exploding budget deficits that can't be reduced because there is an ever shrinking tax base. All Oregon is saying is that they don't want high earners and businesses in their state. With that comes high unemployment, high crime and all of the other social ills of liberal class warfare.

Sweet.

Posted by: G Jiggy on January 29, 2010 11:30 AM
33. Re: Tensor @ 17,

Tensor, I was wondering if you were going to answer Gary's question to you @ 18.

Just askin'

Posted by: G Jiggy on January 29, 2010 11:34 AM
34. Gregoire needs to learn a lesson from our more progressive neighbors. This state does not have the funds to provide for the needs of its residents. As we all complain about big government, keep in mind the bigger the government, the more quality jobs are produced. Also, government workers DO pay their fair share of taxes. Let's stop and think about those who don't have a job or are underemployed. There is much that this state can do to lift the quality of life for all. We should follow Oregon's lead.

Mike G

Posted by: Mike G on January 29, 2010 02:13 PM
35. Mike G - "...keep in mind the bigger the government, the more quality jobs are produced." Where is the evidence that this statement is true?

Posted by: jimt. on January 29, 2010 02:39 PM
36. Good point, but I would invite you to check the salary levels of both management and non management government workers. Better yet, the retiree benefits are large enough to keep their hospital care paid and a standard of living which supports a quality and dignified life style. Look around and you will see that about half of the work force is employed by federal, state, or local government. How many retired government workers are greeters at Walmart?

Mike G

Posted by: Mike G on January 29, 2010 03:01 PM
37. Mike G @ 34:
I have heard some damned stupid things posted here but ". . . bigger the government, the more quality jobs are produced." has got to take the cake. NEVER in my half-a-century + years on this earth have I heard such stupid, inane, factless, bunch of garbage. I suggest that you take Jimt's (@ #35) challenge and source this piece of moronic drivel.

You're a freakin' dumb sh*t. I'm going to grab your statement and e-mail that thing all over hell's half acre and get some good laughs out of it. Man what a loon.

OH! I just figured it out. Mike G IS a government worker. No wonder his brain is connected to his ass!

Posted by: G Jiggy on January 29, 2010 03:08 PM
38. G Jiggy Your half century+ years on this earth has distorted your ability to think. Shame on you for insulting a writer who feels that we need to improve the quality of everyone's life, including yours. Based on your inability to communicate, it's quite possible that you couldn't get hired in government or the civilian sector. Not everyone has won the 'lottery of life'. Like many others in this state, I will work hard for decent wages. Chances are, you're one of the greeters.

Give thanks to both Gregiore and Obama...
Mike G.

Posted by: Mike G on January 29, 2010 04:08 PM
39. Obviously a societal parasite like Mike G is exhibiting the typical libtard mentality to basic economics...

So instead of seeing Political Centers as Parasite Economies Mike G sees them as some sort of nirvana...

Personally I'm guessing that Mike G will need someone to read and explain the following to him:

10 Differences between Conservatives And Liberals

Posted by: juandos on January 29, 2010 05:15 PM
40. #38 "Give thanks to both Gregiore and Obama..."

What? No, thanks.

Actually, I take it back. I will thank Obama for officially becoming lame in November. It be his actions that make it so.

Posted by: Gary on January 29, 2010 06:31 PM
41. The smartest thing for the folks in Olympia to do would be to ease some business regulations and taxes to draw the Oregon businesses across our border, much as Nevada has done to California.

But, since that would be the sensible thing, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell it will happen.

Posted by: PeggyU on January 29, 2010 06:35 PM
42. Mike G @ #38:
Shame on me? What? Are trying to hurt my feelings with grade school epigrams? Ha, ha, ha! What a d*ck you are. Shame on you for being the dumbest bastard on the planet (Obviously a government worker). Shame on you for committing that drivel to pixels and think you've done something smart. I notice that you haven't backed up your ridiculous claim with any fact(s) or numbers. Shame on you for that too. Shame, shame, shame.

Here's a little econ 101 you friggin' boob.

Government jobs don't generate value. Everything you earn has to be TAKEN from somebody else against their will. Laws are created so that you can receive a wage. If it were not for those laws nobody would want whatever you produce because you don't PRODUCE anything. Not exactly service sector huh Mikey? So there you go boobalicious, you are a pimple on the ass of society. How does it feel?

Posted by: G Jiggy on January 29, 2010 09:12 PM
43. Gjiggy just proved he doesn't know the first thing about economics. or taxes. and that he's a self righteous hypocrite, demanding proof of others when providing none himself.

1. taxes are NOT taken from you against your will. you have the choice not to pay taxes. no one forces you to pay taxes, let alone against your will. taxes are necessary for a functioning society. yes, your little utopian ideals sound wonderous. but it's still just a fantasy. if you don't like paying taxes, move to

2. there is no value generated by a strong military? there is no value generated by the parks department? there is no value generated by the police department? there is no value generated by schools? there is no value generated by university scientists, hospitals and programs?

christ, talking about being the dumbest bastard on the planet...

Posted by: mike on January 29, 2010 09:47 PM
44. So just how delusional is this libtard?

"taxes are NOT taken from you against your will. you have the choice not to pay taxes. no one forces you to pay taxes, let alone against your will"...

Hmmm, I guess it didn't even remotely occur to you to do some homework, right libtard Mike?

Maybe libtard Mike should've had someone look up what Washington state's tax laws are and also and read and explain it to him in simple words...

Posted by: juandos on January 30, 2010 03:48 AM
45. juanita,

i didn't say there weren't consequences for choosing not to pay taxes. but no one is FORCING you to pay taxes. no one is STEALING your money.

reading comprehension would go a long way to curing your mental illness

Posted by: mike on January 30, 2010 01:56 PM
46. Mike @ 43:

I don't know anything about economics!!?!?!
Military? Parks departments? Police department? Schools? Ha, ha, ha!! Boy I'd like to see your investment portfolio!! Ha, ha, ha!! What a dipshit. Go away punk. You're a loser.

Posted by: G Jiggy on January 30, 2010 05:28 PM
47. After all of Mr. Eyeman's self-important puffery, it's good to see a post here which shows exactly what you really think of our democracy in action. Please do keep reminding us of your actual opinions of your fellow Americans.

Tensor, I was wondering if you were going to answer Gary's question to you @ 18.

I thought I made my derision for such simplistic predictions pretty clear, but I guess I need be more explicit. I don't agree with any superficial connection between the tax code and the economy. Oregon is one of fifty states; it has a significant international trade. It cannot control national taxation or investment; it cannot control international trade policy.

However, I do stand by my actual prediction: if none of the original author's predictions come true, he won't mention them again.

You're welcome.

Meanwhile, your own grasp of economics requires much more education:

Government jobs don't generate value.

If the government erects a hydroelectric dam, the resultant electricity has no value? If the Navy and Coast Guard clear the shipping lanes of pirates, the resultant seaborne trade has no value? If a local port commission invests in infrastructure, allowing an increase in trade, the resultant difference has no value?

Care to guess why your fellow Americans have spent the past few election cycles rejecting your "ideas"?

Posted by: tensor on January 31, 2010 07:05 PM
48. The "poorer" counties realize that money sent to govt for the "poor" is then siphoned off to pet projects and legislators pockets BEFORE reaching the poor. A dollar taxed, equals cents in service.

Posted by: jeremiad on February 1, 2010 07:29 AM
49. at 47

It's wrong to say that government has no value and you are 100% right when you point that out.

The problem that most conservatives have is not with infrastructure to support an overall economy and we certainly don't have a problem with defense.

But we all know that government has gone pretty far afield of the basics of infastructure and defense, and it's that lack of focus that makes government expensive and inefficient.

It's amazing how fast liberals will hide behind policemen, soldiers, teachers and major infrastructure when they want to defend government, but when you hand them money, those things are the LAST priority for the money.

We all know that given the chance, a modern liberal will put money into a social program before hiring a cop, will start another conservation project before considering building a much needed power plant or freeway, and will put every pet project and boondoggle into the budget they can think of before spending a cent on schools since they know they can leverage supplemental levies that basicall ransom our kids future unless we agree to yet more taxes.

You rhetoric doesn't work here because we both know it's not honest. You guys in the state government all work for the government employees unions and special interests (i.e. Indian tribes) these day. You have no respect for the needs of the small business or middle class.

Posted by: johnny on February 1, 2010 02:41 PM
50. It's amazing how fast liberals will hide behind policemen, soldiers, teachers and major infrastructure when they want to defend government, but when you hand them money, those things are the LAST priority for the money.

Examples of which include...?

... money into a social program before hiring a cop, will start another conservation project before considering building a much needed power plant ...

Yes, both are examples of attempts to prevent problems before they develop, rather than reacting after the problem has developed. The latter especially, as there can be little doubt that conserving energy is obviously cheaper than developing new sources (usually by several orders of magnitude!) This liberal proudly accepts your compliments. :)

...and will put every pet project and boondoggle into the budget they can think of before spending a cent on schools...

Examples of which include...?

(Or is this just a reverse projection: the first thing a right-wing government does is restrict educational funding?)

You rhetoric doesn't work here because we both know it's not honest.

Examples of which include...?

You guys in the state government...

I am not now, nor have I ever been, an employee of the states of Washington or Oregon. My current employer is one of the biggest private employers in either state.

You have no respect for the needs of the small business or middle class.

My previous employer was a small business in Washington state; it had been, very literally, a garage startup. Everyone who worked there considered himself or herself to be middle class, as I do now (even though I now make far more money).

Anything else?

Posted by: tensor on February 1, 2010 09:36 PM
51. OK Mike, Mike G, Johnny and Tensor about economic value.

I think what we are dealing with here are four people who are so stupid OR so ideologically polluted, or maybe both, that their brains stopped working quite some time ago. OK guys, let's try a little thought experiment on your idea of government jobs and value.

Imagine if you will, that ALL jobs in the land are with the Coast Guard, Military, Post Office, school teachers, cops, regulators and inspectors. Everybody in the land is employed, no unemployment. Not even 1%. Not even .0001%.

Where does the money come from?

Posted by: G Jiggy on February 2, 2010 10:38 AM
52. @51 Don't know how my name got included with those two, but go read my posts again.

I believe in LIMITED government, but I'm not completely anti-government, and I'm certainly not a tax and spend type. I like cops, firemen, teachers, etc. (Not much on the unions that they have, but if I had to deal with a bunch of bureaucrats and political hacks like they do, I might have some representation there too.)

@50 Apologies Tensor, I had you mixed up in my head with another poster.

My point still stands that if government stuck to the basics, and that too often those that argue for more government promise more law enforcement and education while delivering more cushie jobs for the lobbyists and special interests. The government manages best that manages least.

Posted by: johnny on February 2, 2010 10:55 AM
53. Johnny @ #52: My apologies for including you. I agree with your sentiments.

Beyond that and on point with the original post about Oregon voting to tax somebody else, this will be the first shoe to drop:

". . . Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, who is looking to lure employers from Oregon after that state's voters approved a huge tax increase last week. The tax hike in Oregon "will help our economic development immediately. You'd better believe it," Hizzoner told the Chicago Sun Times late last week. "We'll be out in Oregon enticing corporations to relocate to Chicago."

They already got Boeing so it's established, they play rough. Ha, ha, ha!! Wave goodbye to businesses Oregonians and all that tax money you think you'll get won't be a fraction in reality.

Full article here

Posted by: G Jiggy on February 2, 2010 11:44 AM
54. ...Oregon voting to tax somebody else...

Look up-thread. The counties with the highest incomes voted most heavily for the tax increase. They voted to tax themselves, but your contempt for democracy won't let you see or admit this.

Apologies Tensor, I had you mixed up in my head with another poster.

Thanks, no offense taken. I also believe in limited government, but my definition of "limited" moves with the circumstances. Government is, after all, the only entity we all explicitly hire to protect our rights, and sometimes that calls for strong measures, although we all wish it were not so.

Posted by: tensor on February 2, 2010 11:35 PM
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