January 12, 2010
Are Republican Opponents Of ObamaCare "Traitors"?
That was the argument
Seattle talk show host Dave Ross made near the end of
his program on December 24th.
Before I go any farther I should add that, as I learned yesterday, Ross may have been under great stress
when he made that argument. His father, who had been ill for many months, passed away on
Christmas day. (I was listening to the first hour of his program to see if he retracted the
"traitors" statement, which he had made just before he left on holiday. Ironically, Ross began the
program by complaining about the mean things some Republicans have been saying about Harry Reid.)
That said, Ross should still either justify his name-calling, or retract it and formally
apologize. On air, on his web site, and on his program's web site.
It was not entirely clear why Ross thought that Republicans who oppose ObamaCare are "traitors", nor
did he say whether he thought the large minority of Democrats who also oppose ObamaCare are also
"traitors". As I understood him — and he didn't make a very coherent argument —
Republicans who oppose ObamaCare are traitors because the plan had so many features that would be
wonderful for the country.
Although his argument was not particularly coherent, it was revealing. For many supporters
of ObamaCare, the principles behind it, especially universal coverage, are so important that they
override any practical considerations of cost. (And nearly all of the proponents are at best
indifferent to the severe limitations on our freedoms in the plan.) Or at least let us put
those practical problems off to another time. That overwhelming desire to have a national health
insurance plan leads them to make silly arguments about bending the cost curve down, and even to call
opponents of the plan "traitors".
Cross posted at Jim Miller on Politics.
(Ross is not just a talk show host; he was a
Democratic candidate for Congress in 2004.
This is not the first foolish thing that Ross said; for two more examples, look
Posted by Jim Miller at January 12, 2010
09:45 AM | Email This
I am a traitor, yes: a traitor to those who would tear down civil liberties and the Constitution.
OK, so that doesn't make me much of a traitor, I suppose.
I can live with that.
That's mild. Olberman called them 'terrorists'.
What ... if terrorists were killing 45,000 people every year in this country? Well, the current health care system, the insurance companies, and those who support them are doing just that. ... Those fighting health care reform -- not those debating its shape or its nuance -- people who demand the status quo, they are killing 45,000 Americans a year. ... Remind me again, who are the terrorists?
--MSNBC's Keith Olbermann
Liberals are vile, vile bunch.
So what solutions are Republicans offering as compromise to prevent 45,000 deaths per day, and untold fiscal insolvency from good people unable to afford medical care they need?
Why should only Democrats have to compromise?
4. @3 Republicans proposed an alternative already that does not include huge tax increases on the middle class and endless government bureaucracy taking over health care, and does include increased coverage through expanding competition and actually reducing costs. However, they have been completely shut out of the process by Democrats. If you actually wanted to you could read the Republican alternative, but I doubt that you do.
"... to prevent 45,000 deaths per day ..."
Interesting. I'm curious where this number originates.
6. @5 I think he was referring to the 45k per year in the ridiculous Olberman quote above.
#1. Tort Reform
#2. Being able to purchase across state lines
#3. Health Savings Accounts
#4. Putting the patient in charge of his own health care, not his employer or the government (i.e. he buys his own health plan, if he can't afford it then he gets a tax credit)
#5. Making health insurance more like car insurance (You don't use your car insurance to pay for your oil changes and flat tires, why do you want health insurance to pay for routine check ups and flu shots?)
I could go on but you get the idea. Republicans have plenty of good ideas. Democrats and folks like Olbermann just choose to ignore them and tell America that our plan involved killing off old people.
Hope this helps.
And that 45,000 number is a load of crap.
And never mind that, even if it were true, Olbermann calling Republicans terrorists because of it would be like calling car manufacturers terrorists because that many people die in auto accidents every year.
Bleh. So Dave Ross thinks I'm a traitor.
I've been called worse by people much better than him.
10. Dave Ross...is a Liberal. Strange yet, typical of Liberals to denigrate Conservatives who are known to support Individual Liberty. The slaved minded mob Liberals wish to force Socialism on Society and force the Individual into the Collective and thereby, destroying the Individual, Freedom of Choice and the Liberty that goes with it. Plain and Simple: Liberals are the Enemy of America. Liberals are the Enemy of Liberty.
@3 - Joe,
If passing this health care reform NOW is so damned important, then why does the taxation start immediately but the payouts don't start happening for years after? How many people will die paying for something they do not get?
He doesn't need to apologize to me; calling me a traitor says a lot more about him than it does about me. I actually like when people say stupid things like this -- it lets us know what they're actually thinking and saves us the trouble of trying to figure it out.
Keep up the good work, Dave!
Well according to hyper-aggravated Lefties like Chris Matthews, we are not only traitors, but racists, practitioners of bizarre sexual practices (why are Anderson Cooper and Chris M. so fascinated with that word?) and we are all all white. Oh yeah, and bitter gun clingers too!
Keep it up Dems. Ridiculous insults all help in November.
14. Let's not forget the majority of "traitorous" independents that also oppose Obamacare.
Who's Dave Ross?
If he's on the air anywhere near Rush, who cares?
comment removed - jrm
(We should not copy Dave Ross's name calling. Since we have the better side of the arguments, we don't need to.)
Democrats are accusing someone of being mean????
Did someone throw cement on railroad tracks, shoot up somebody's office, slash tires, or beat up someone? Of course not, but these are things democrats have done to others who weren't democrats.
Dave needs to zip it, methinks, and spend time telling his own party to be decent.
18. I wonder if Dave considers Obama, Reid, and Pelosi also traitors, and if Olbermann considers them terrorists, given that their plan (they have 100% control of the process) lets "45,000" die for the next 4 years...
19. 28:25 at http://icestream.bonnint.net/seattle/kiro/2009/12/p_Dave_Ross_Show_20091224_11am.mp3
#20 - what have you contributed to the discussion besides your typical asanine ridicule ? diddly squat.
Actually, the 5 points could make a significant difference that statists don't like to hear. Problem is the a$$holes in Congress aren't interested. It's not about serving constituents to them, its about power. Time to vote out these corrupt-ocrats in November.
Mike @ 20
And what research would that be? Source?
22. "Make it up on the spot" observations typically don't come with either research or sources.
23. "And that 45,000 number is a load of crap."
sure is, I said it once already, by the way the number is derived by using a percentage of the uninsured.
24. American children are taught that the speedy �wabbit� wastes time and energy accomplishing little, while the plodding turtle gets the job done, ultimately. I get the sense this means the plodding bureaucracy, the community, proves superior in the end when compared with the individual interest pursued by the �wabbit.� To the kids, Obama and the plodding turtle are related, while the self-interest pursuing creative types are muddying the pure waters of society and its needs. The �wabbit� makes waves, leaves a wake, drops pebbles in the placid pond, and supposedly never gets anything done. The �wabbit� is an Ayn Rand character, like the entrepreneurs in America who create all the jobs the turtle ignores as he slowly plods along doing the same thing the elite rulers have always done in the Old World, making war on �wabbits.� Claysamerica.com
25. American children are taught that the speedy �wabbit� wastes time and energy accomplishing little, while the plodding turtle gets the job done, ultimately. I get the sense this means the plodding bureaucracy, the community, proves superior in the end when compared with the individual interest pursued by the �wabbit.� To the kids, Obama and the plodding turtle are related, while the self-interest pursuing creative types are muddying the pure waters of society and its needs. The �wabbit� makes waves, leaves a wake, drops pebbles in the placid pond, and supposedly never gets anything done. The �wabbit� is an Ayn Rand character, like the entrepreneurs in America who create all the jobs the turtle ignores as he slowly plods along doing the same thing the elite rulers have always done in the Old World, making war on �wabbits.� Claysamerica.com