I am going to perform my new song Liberty Man at the Tax Day Tea Party on the steps of the Capitol in Olympia. Check out the Evergreen Freedom Foundation's web site for the event, which starts at noon on Wednesday, April 15 (find other events on the web site).
The original Boston Tea Party -- taking place and a few miles north, and 200 years (minus a few months) before I was born -- was not a response to a tax increase, but to a government bailout. The East India Company was in big trouble due to a bad economy and bad management and bad government policies, and Parliament passed the Tea Act in response, which extended the Company's monopoly in the colonies, eliminated a significant tax on the tea in order to undercut the (smuggled) competition, and added a smaller tax for largely symbolic purposes.
Parliament was basically saying, "by purchasing this tea, which costs less than the competition, you concede that that we can tell you what tea to buy, and tax you however we wish." This is why some colonists called the tea the "seeds of slavery." Even if the colonists had representation in Parliament, this would have been intolerable to many of them, because they still would have had to agree that a majority of Parliament could tell them what to do. So they took the object of their offense and dumped it into the harbor.
The Boston Tea Party was not about tax increases, and was not even about representation. It was about self-governance. It was about making their own choices and directing their own paths. Representation doesn't give us that, as we in modern America understand: when your voice in Congress is only 1/435th of the House of Representatives, and this House has massive control over what you can and can't do, the fact of your representation is not meaningful: you still don't have much right to self-governance, which is the real point, not just of the Boston Tea Party, but of the American Revolution itself.
There's a great line by Mel Gibson in The Patriot, during the Revolution: "why would I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants one mile away?" (Unfortunately, today, a better comparison would be "3,000 tyrants 3,000 miles away.") Gibson's character -- based on Francis Marion, from whom my father's middle name came -- continued, "An elected legislature can trample a man's rights as easily as a king can."
Even if you have representation, that doesn't make you free. You can have all the representation in the world and it doesn't matter if you aren't free. Freedom is actually being able to do as you please, and a legislature -- be it Parliament or Congress -- that is destructive to that end should be altered or abolished by the People.
Some people don't care about being free. Some people just want to be taken care of. They can be bought off with cheap tea. We can't.
Cross-posted on <pudge/*>.
Posted by pudge at April 13, 2009 09:22 AM | Email ThisI guess it's not patriotic to question Obama. I expect our brownshirt commenters along any minute with their ad hominem giggly 14 year old attacks using a lame sexual practice that happens to start with the word tea.
Posted by: Jeff B. on April 13, 2009 09:37 AMRE: Attend a 4/15 tea party and collect voter sigs for Initiative 1033
April 15th Tea (Taxed Enough Already) parties are popping up in cities all over Washington state. Everyone is feeling the effects of out-of-control government (federal, state, counties, and cities) and citizens are looking for a way to express their horror at what the politicians are doing to our country. Many of you will attend these events and we want to encourage everyone to bring your I-1033 petitions with you to collect voter signatures.
By capping the growth of government and substantially reducing property taxes, I-1033 is a real, tangible, positive response to the politicians' complete abandonment of fiscal responsibility. In our ongoing tug-of-war over taxation, I-1033 gives us all our last, best chance to pull the rope in favor of fiscal sanity and allows the people to gain control of our government.
Thanks to the great folks at Evergreen Freedom Foundation, there's going to be a 'biggie' in Olympia starting at 12 noon on Wednesday, April 15th (for details, contact Amber Gunn at agunn@effwa.org). I'll be given 5 minutes to speak. Obviously, most of my efforts will be focused on talking about the Lower Property Taxes Initiative I-1033 and how it gives us all a chance to fight back against auto-pilot politicians and their total lack of compassion for struggling taxpayers.
And later that day at Westlake Park in Seattle from 5:45pm-7:45pm, because of the hard work of Keli Carender (for details, contact her at redistributingknowledge@gmail.com), another tea party will be going on. I'll also be speaking at that event for 5 minutes and doing everything possible to encourage everyone to gain control of our government with I-1033.
There are many, many other 'tea parties' in cities throughout our state - go to them and collect signatures for I-1033. Let's take full advantage of this opportunity.
Need more petitions? Please email me (tell me the quantity you want and where you want them sent).
Thanks.
tim_eyman@comcast.net
www.VotersWantMoreChoices.com
Posted by: Tim Eyman, I-1033 co-sponsor on April 13, 2009 11:02 AMWill you listen to yourselves?
The very fact that you're taking so much effort to try to discourage and discredit this simple demonstration of people who disagree with a political point of view shows that the message is getting across.
When the teaparties commence and America sees that these protesters aren't hippies and useful idiots but the shop owners, service providers and others that make up the"backbone of America, this will have its affect. The politicians who depend on these people to pay their taxes will know there is sizable resistance.
So ridicule and demean all you want. You're about to get overrun by history.
Posted by: johnny on April 13, 2009 11:26 AMThere's a difference between protesting a war, and protesting a minor restructuring of the tax code.
Likewise, if these protests against government expansion had happened during the Bush Administration, I'd be much more sympathetic. All of this is simply grandstanding by conservatives. At least there are anti-war protesters that are still protesting!
@6: The very fact that you're taking so much effort to try to discourage and discredit this simple demonstration of people who disagree with a political point of view shows that the message is getting across.
No, we're engaging you in debate. Given that mouth-breathing cretins like yourself have freely mocked anti-war demonstrators in the past, I don't think that you're in any position to complain.
While our President supports crooks, Chris and Barney and Fannie and Freddie and Rahm and Bill Ayers, political machines, generational theft and the defeat of the Constitution he's sworn to defend?
Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on April 13, 2009 12:08 PMFannie and Factless, if you choose to characterize this as a right/left thing, then I suggest your natural leanings force you not to listen and don't give a rip about the country's direction under Obama. It is neither right nor left or a wakeup call to the politicos regarding the future spending of the country. We'll throw all the bums out who support this nonsense.
Posted by: swatter on April 13, 2009 12:50 PMAnd it's ironic that you see some justifying difference, because the war effort will have a far smaller impact on you in the long run than a restructuring of the domestic economy. Wars end, but your progressive vision knows no bounds.
Posted by: Jeff B. on April 13, 2009 12:54 PMFINE! Let's see you DO IT! I think you are making liberal use of the contraction "We'll"; you don't appear to have a grasp on what "we" is in this country. Tell you what. It ain't gonna be done by "tea-baggin". But DO have a go at it and see where it gets you.
Posted by: PIFan on April 13, 2009 12:59 PMLast week these same folks were on this forum proudly proclaiming how much electricity they had each intentionally wasted in response to what they regarded as a left-wing do-gooder effort to reduce power consumption by asking anyone who cared to, to turn off their lights for an hour.
Why the need for a response? Because this left-wing, do-gooder project was a meaningless, symbolic effort that accomplished nothing.
So, this week those same folks are gearing up to get in their cars and drive to an event in which they wave tea bags around as some sort of meaningful protest against a change in the tax code.
And they wonder why virtually no one takes them seriously anymore.
But hey, many of them will go just to hear Pudge sing.
This fake movement, fooling johnnie's shop keepers, referred to above, into supporting paying more in taxes so the ruling class, and Exxon/Mobil gets to pay less is of course what this is all about. They bought the domain names, and began planning this protest months before the Santelli comment. Get a calendar.
And to think the tea baggers think it all began with Santelli's mocking people that were swindled out of their life savings by the banksters. There is nothing about this fake grass roots protest that doesn't stink all to hell.
Posted by: All Facts Support My Positions on April 13, 2009 01:19 PMHere's what I get: There are some people who are unhappy because the main spokesmen for their ideology have recently lost two national elections. So, they are grumpy because the government elected by the majority doesn't see things they're way -- or something. Too bad.
Posted by: scottd on April 13, 2009 01:23 PMYou say "should", but obviously the people who elected this legislature don't agree with you. Perhaps you will succeed in changing the people's minds in the future, but your extremist libertarian rhetoric, music videos, and tea bags have been spectacularly unsuccessful to date.
Posted by: Bruce on April 13, 2009 01:30 PMPoint me towards ONE "teabagging" that happened during the Bush administration that denounced their policies. Extra points for one that happened before Election Day.
This is grandstanding by Republicans against Democrats, with libertarians brought along for the ride.
@12: The difference is that you believed in ending the war, but you don't believe in ending the progressive restructuring of the country. Fine. But don't pretend that entitles you to free speech whilst expecting your opponents to keep quiet.
Did I say, "We should call out the National Guard and shoot anyone that protests on April 15th?" Or, "We should make it illegal for these folks to protest?" No. Don't confuse "debate" and "opposition" with "repression". I can call you an idiot and a poor American as much as I want with MY rights to free speech.
And it's ironic that you see some justifying difference, because the war effort will have a far smaller impact on you in the long run than a restructuring of the domestic economy. Wars end, but your progressive vision knows no bounds.
And your regressive vision? Limitless.
I am laughing about your statements about the long-run financial impact of the Iraq War, though. Keep in mind, for example, that health care expenditures for World War II veterans has only peaked recently. Between plenty of off-the-budget appropriations for the war, and continuing costs well after the war is through, this whole adventure has been a massive drain on our fiscal well-being.
But again, you don't give a crap about that.
Posted by: demo kid on April 13, 2009 01:41 PMLiar.
Sorry PIFan, but if W had given the ok to have the pirates shot, you and your ilk would be on the high horse accusing him of racism, shooting darker skinned people etc. etc.
No, not exactly. But a lot of people that, you know, actually want the whole story realize that this isn't the only problem with uncontrolled waters:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-you-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates-1225817.html
As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.
Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury – you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Mr Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention."
Quite frankly, I'm pissed off that some liberals are merely getting their rocks off about this "test" of Obama's, without considering what's really going on in this area.
Posted by: demo kid on April 13, 2009 01:48 PMDummo Kids,PUFan, All Facts Fit my Delusions, and even their Sock Puppet friends. Quite an effort to suppress something that "won't have any impact."
This isn't about a tax code, this is about a direction that a few people want to take our country down and that we're going to make sure won't happen. People voted for Obama as a change to Bush, but they didn't vote for socialism. (Obama lied about his intent every chance he got.)
So after a long and unpopular war we lost a few elections? We lost a few after Nixon too. People come to their senses.
People like Dummo Kid want us all to believe that since dems won a few that the whole argument is over and their side owns all the marbles. Anyone over the age of 30 knows that nothing is ever "done" in politics.
Here's the simple fact that has the dems shaking in their boots. Polls have repeatedly shown that people liked Obama personally but that they don't like the policies he stands for. When people take the time to actually make others aware that Obama and his cronies are actually trying to enact those policies, it really gets their panties in a wad.
Remember Kids and "Facts"": They liked Bush personally too. He won BIG in 2004 and so did the GOP in congress and state races.
My how things change in just a few short years huh?
Dummo Kids,PUFan, All Facts Fit my Delusions, and even their Sock Puppet friends. Quite an effort to suppress something that "won't have any impact."
This isn't about a tax code, this is about a direction that a few people want to take our country down and that we're going to make sure won't happen. People voted for Obama as a change to Bush, but they didn't vote for socialism. (Obama lied about his intent every chance he got.)
So after a long and unpopular war we lost a few elections? We lost a few after Nixon too. People come to their senses.
People like Dummo Kid want us all to believe that since dems won a few that the whole argument is over and their side owns all the marbles. Anyone over the age of 30 knows that nothing is ever "done" in politics.
Here's the simple fact that has the dems shaking in their boots. Polls have repeatedly shown that people liked Obama personally but that they don't like the policies he stands for. When people take the time to actually make others aware that Obama and his cronies are actually trying to enact those policies, it really gets their panties in a wad.
Remember Kids and "Facts"": They liked Bush personally too. He won BIG in 2004 and so did the GOP in congress and state races.
My how things change in just a few short years huh?
Rest assured the left is collectively trembling in their boots over this "event". We fully realize it may be of even greater impact than Beck's "we surround them" party, which we all agree, changed the course of human history.
Our operatives are working around the clock to minimize this protest and make sure it gets the oblivion it deserves.
http://minx.cc/?post=285778
Sorry I don't know how to link.
Posted by: dan on April 13, 2009 02:51 PMPssssst. The righties had their time. Now it is time for them to sit down, and shut up while we fix their nightmare. Unless of course they want to offer solutions other than the same ideas that caused all these problems.....
I hate to break it to them. Freedom does not equal greed, regardless how delusional they are.
Posted by: All Facts Support My Positions on April 13, 2009 02:59 PMAnyone over the age of thirty DOES know this. The problem is that conservative idiots don't realize that it applies to them as well.
@25: This is the best explanation of what it's like trying to engage in a discussion with these trolls and leftists in general. A must watch!
That has to be the dumbest video ever, especially since conservatives have no problem telling liberals to "shut up" all the time. Only a small mind would listen to that and think it makes any sense whatsoever.
Posted by: demo kid on April 13, 2009 03:01 PMNow, are you going to tell me otherwise? I'm all ears. Prove that it applies to liberals and not conservatives.
Hell, at least point me towards how "net neutrality" factors into this boob's arguments! That certainly came out of left field.
Posted by: demo kid on April 13, 2009 03:09 PMYou really hit a nerve with SP's resident unemployable Marxists. 56% of the posts! Perhaps in encouraging their touch-typing skills some day they will put some clothing and use that skill for a job!
Posted by: yaddacubed on April 13, 2009 03:09 PMRemember...Wednesday, April 15th at noon at the State Capitol...
The Piper
Posted by: Piper Scott on April 13, 2009 03:24 PMI think the only nerve Pudge might have hit was our funny bone. I'm honestly starting to wonder if Pudge isn't some sort of wonderful joke being played on the faithful of this forum. A caricature of the dogged, but not very bright and not particularly well educated conservative who truly believes his own self-righteousness.
He gets his news from FOX and ideology from Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. He surrounds himself with right-thinking friends who reinforce his belief that the world really is quite simple, and if only every one else believed the way he does, all would be well.
He thinks that just because he has had the fabulous good fortune of being born in this county, at this time, into this culture, that he fully deserves the incredible wealth that has been showered on him and that it was somehow something he caused.
And to hell with all those folks who weren't so lucky. They can damn well pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
Suggestion: Perhaps, the symbol of the Liberty Tree, printed on T-shirts and signage should also be brought forth at these Tea Parties.
PIFan: you repeatedly say this is a symbolic gesture that will do nothing. That a majority of this state and country actually want increased government control over their lives. That may be, but that is as good a reason as any to raise our voice against it, to let people know there's a large number of us who disagree, and why we disagree.
Personally, I believe you're deluded. I think a majority of this country doesn't like the steady increase of government power, and that Obama was elected not because people agreed with his statist views, but because they were angry at Bush and the Republicans for almost entirely unrelated matters.
Worse, Bruce, we have as a matter of record that our governor lied repeatedly and often about the state of our finances in this state; for you to take the result of her re-election as a sign that people back what ACTUALLY happened under her watch -- massive overspending -- then you're even more deluded than PIFan.
I would agree that a Tea Party by itself, even if they are attended by millions, will do nothing. But it is just a start. It's just a way to be seen and heard, both by the elected officials and like-minded people who are being told -- by people like you -- that they are alone and their views are extremist, when in fact they are not only very mainstream, but they have been mainstream throughout the entire history of our republic.
And, PIFan, if you think I am misguided, you are welcome to explain how. Please don't resort to the logical fallacies and attacks so often enagaged in by your ideological comrades, however. I don't think you'll be successful, however, since at root my views are based on principles which are -- at worst -- no less valid, no less defensible, and no less rational than your own. Such principles, thankfully, are not such that are ever grown out of.
demo kid: Brian Sonntag is not a token Democrat, and this is not a partisan event. The EFF, and many if not all of the speakers at the event, including myself, have strongly criticized the power grabs of Republicans. This is about certain PRINCIPLES, which, yes, the Republican Party more closely embodies, but those principles are eschewed by some Republicans and followed by some Democrats. This is not partisan, period.
This is not the first time you've incorrectly asserted that the EFF is a partisan organization. You've never once backed up that claim, though.
scottd: I did enlighten you. You don't even have to read between the lines, as I said it explicitly: it's about self-governance. Now, one of the main focal points of the event are the massive increases in government power happening right now, in the form of bailouts and stimulus packages. So if you wanted to pick something concrete that these events are about nationally, that's it. But in Olympia, there's also the more specific goal of expressing opposition to tax increases.
But broadly, it's all about self-governance. About the government not taking from us and telling us what to do, what cars to drive, what tea to drink, what bags to use at the supermarket, what lawn mowers to buy; and to not take our private resources to advance their agenda, as we are capable of making those decisions for ourselves.
In other words, "my party is not in power, so I must whine."
@37: The EFF, and many if not all of the speakers at the event, including myself, have strongly criticized the power grabs of Republicans.
Like I asked... well... somewhere, how exactly were you "teabagging" when the Republicans ruled the roost, then? The fact that these protests are only common under a Democratic administration is very, very telling.
And with regards to whether the EFF is partisan, let me ask you this: is the ACLU partisan?
Posted by: demo kid on April 13, 2009 04:33 PMBy mis-guided I simply meant (as I said to another) that in my view you do not realize that the "we" in your agenda is not a majority and we saw what the majority wanted and voted in.
I never implied my view was the majoritarian view, until after you said that. And as noted, the people were repeatedly lied to in the campaign in this state on a particular issue -- the massive looming deficit -- and many of them believed it, so it is exceedingly difficult to use that election as evidence of what the majority wanted on the issue of state spending.
Further, Gregoire also said she would not raise taxes, so using your logic, the EFF's just going along with the majority view, as its main point of the rally on Wednesday is No Tax Increases.
Let's see what the attendance figures are at these "tea fests" and then may be one of us might just be enlightened.
No, let's not. I couldn't care less about numbers. If I did, then I would have posted about the extremely tiny turnout of the WFSE rally a few weeks ago.
Support is borne out over time in many ways, ultimately through the vote. And let's face it, many people who tend toward supporting these types of things are working, taking care of the kids, and so on. And many people who do show up might just do it to see me sing. ;-) It's just not a good indicator of support.
We'll see two Novembers hence where we're at.
demo kid: Like I asked... well... somewhere, how exactly were you "teabagging" when the Republicans ruled the roost, then?
Yes, this is the red herring fallacy I referred to. It is not relevant to the argument. However, I did bring up my past experiences, so I'll recount some of them.
I posted my criticism of the spending, of No Child Left Behind and other power-grabs, often, online (including during the 2004 presidential campaign). I talked to many political activists and local politicians (of all stripes and parties) expressing my displeasure. When Vice President Dick Cheney came out to Everett in support of Doug Roulstone in 2006, we (the Snohomish County GOP Executive Board) directed our then-chair to tell Cheney that we were angry about the massive increases in spending undertaken by the President and Congress.
The fact that these protests are only common under a Democratic administration is very, very telling.
Shrug. If such a protest would have existed in 2001-2008, I would have participated, too. You're engaing in red herring fallacy here, and it doesn't make you look good.
let me ask you this: is the ACLU partisan?
No. Does it generally lean left? You betcha, and the EFF generally leans right. But neither one is a partisan organization, and both of them have come down for politicians and policies on the "other side" of the partisan divide, and against those on "their side," because for both groups the PRINCIPLES trump the PARTY, and where politicians or policies match their principles they favor them, and where they are against their principles, they oppose them.
"I would agree that a Tea Party by itself, even if they are attended by millions, will do nothing. But it is just a start."
OK Pudge, it's a start. What's the next step? Civil disobedience?
Eight years ago, the Right said: "Hey! The people have spoken. Our guy was lawfully elected. Get over it."
Any protest was greeted with "it's just a bunch of left wing wackos" and "why do you hate America."
When those "lawfully elected" folks took us to war and drove the economy into the ditch, you never said a word about it.
What's changed, other than Party affiliation?
As long as Dave Reichert and his ilk can garner the support of conservatives and libertarians, the conservative argument carries no weight.
IF the tea parties ever were a grass roots idea, it no longer is. The tea bag movement is an event for FOX entertainment.
In the end it will be remembered for the whack jobs claiming digital TV is being used to brain wash folks.
If you are fed up with government spending, remove Reichert. Otherwise you are simply fools for FOX.
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on April 13, 2009 05:28 PMAnyone participating in this 'event' is either a fool or an idiot.
Anyone who thinks that is a fool or an idiot.
If you are a conservative or libertarian, then the place to start is policing the Republican party.
I am doing that also.
You lose.
How many of you take deductions on your Federal Income Tax?
Yeah, thought so... Hypocrites! Apparently you either take no deductions because you think we should be higher taxed, or you take the deductions and only pay lip service to higher taxes.
HOPE AND CHANGE! DISSENT IS PATRIOTIC!
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 13, 2009 05:41 PMDissent is excellent.
What exactly to you disagree with? taxes? spending? marxism? digital tv?
Do you have proposals you support? Shall you run for office? Support another?
Or maybe it is just fine to be a prop for Fox entertainment? That worked so well in 2000, 2004 and 2008.
Wow. So anything Fox promotes or covers, we should not participate in?
That seems to be what you are saying. If not, please clarify.
It's a free country. Tea Bag all you like! At best it is a tempest in a tea pot. More likely it ends up being a joke that pushes thoughtful people away; away from tin hat hypocrites.
But hey, it makes for good TV! Right up there with JackA$$.
Isn't this the same Mr. Clark who lied about selling racist Obama $3 bills at the county fair last summer?
At no time had I decided against covering this event. This anonymous posting is intentionally spreading lies.
The resulting email campaign has now made the Herald part of the story. This makes our coverage decision far more complicated.
Ask me Wednesday and I'll let you know what I've decided.
Robert Frank
City editor
The Herald
frank@heraldnet.com
what I am saying is that you can't fight something with nothing
First, it's sad that you're asserting protesting is nothing. Second, it's sad that you believe protesting is the extent of what is being done, especially given that the EFF -- which does more for small government in this state than any other organization, including the Republican Party -- is sponsoring the event in Olympia that I am going to.
We all knew that the Bush/Cheney/DeLay spend-a-thon was a death trap, that the unprecedented, unbudgeted war of no purpose in Iraq was wasteful, what did we do? We went along.
Don't take your guilty conscience out on me.
Fox Entertainment and other entertainers put on events like this because that's their business.
The people putting on all the events I know about are, in every case, nonpartisan, libertarian-leaning, small government advocacy groups and individuals. They are not doing it for entertainment, or for partisanship, or for any reason other than coming to further the cause of limited government.
Again, the event in Olympia is put on by the EFF, which has long criticized state and federal government -- including many, many Republicans -- for their efforts to increase the size, scope, and power of government. Your assertions demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about.
What's yours?
I'm a computer programmer. And you?
More likely it ends up being a joke that pushes thoughtful people away; away from tin hat hypocrites.
Thoughtful people don't make such judgments based on such obviously incorrect assertions as you've presented.
If change is what you want, then police the party that brought us here. These events will be filled with aluminum foil hat wearing nut jobs, and that will be the 'news' story. And that will suit Fox just fine - cuz people like to watch idiots.
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on April 13, 2009 06:49 PMCorrect me if I am wrong, but you are saying that this posting (which I wrote "anonymously") is "intentionally spreading lies" by implying that the Herald has decided to not cover the Everett Tax Day Tea Party.
First, I am not remotely anonymous. Most people here know who I am, and you can ask Jerry Cornfield if you don't know. Indeed, you personally sent me email last year addressing my use of a this exact "handle" on your own newspaper's web site (you had told me that I was required to use my real name, and I told you that my real name was in the account, but that your software would not allow me to choose to display my real name; you responded this was OK).
Second, and much more importantly, I made no comment of any kind about the Herald in this posting. Bob Clark is the only one in this posting who did.
And to top it off, I find it odd that you would be upset about being made a part of the story, and then come into a public forum and further entangle yourself by making ad hominem attacks (regardless of whether they are true) against Bob Clark's past actions.
Cheers.
pudge, What are you protesting?
I've explained this quite clearly, both in the article and subsequent to it. I don't really feel like bothering to spoonfeed you.
This 'movement' started with the financial industry's cheer leading network and passed on to Glenn Beck and Fox.
False. In fact, they are a grassroots effort started here in Seattle, which spread by word of mouth, and which THEN attracted people like Beck and other Fox hosts.
If change is what you want, then police the party that brought us here.
Yes, you already said this. And again, I already indicated that I am working on this, and so is the EFF. You can keep pretending that these protests are being done by people who are not acting otherwise for change, but I've already proven otherwise.
fill me in.... you supporting Reichert in 2010?
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on April 13, 2009 07:00 PMNote that the AP even put his mis-spoken words in quotes while correcting his gaffe for him, even though quotation marks should only be used if you're actually quoting the exact wording he used.
(The blunder begins about 45 seconds in)
Stefan: This is what happens when you hire cheap (non-union) help.
Can you say "Senator Franken"?
awww, darn, you missed...
Apparently, Mr. Obama isn't privy to the part in our preamble to the U.S. Constitution that reads:
"Secure the blessings of liberty, to ourselves and our posterity".
Sure are, My, My, how worried they are about (according to them, much ado about nothing, Na?)the evil Bush/Cheney/Fox lovers who know no other way.....MUST....FOLLOW.....THE.....ROBOT.....
"....gets his news from FOX and ideology from Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. He surrounds himself with right-thinking friends who reinforce his belief that the world really is quite simple, and if only every one else believed the way he does, all would be well."
It IS amazing how the left/progressives feel that they are the only people who can THINK or COMPREHEND life, politics, etc., let's get a second opinion from Code Pink, huh? They haven't been able to opine!
"And to hell with all those folks who weren't so lucky. They can damn well pull themselves up by their own bootstraps."
That WOULD be the American way, after all!! The only reason those "not so lucky" aren't getting anywhere else is because the Dems want votes, and you have to "give to receive" as we all know.
"It's a free country. Tea Bag all you like! At best it is a tempest in a tea pot. More likely it ends up being a joke that pushes thoughtful people away; away from tin hat hypocrites..."
YES, it supposedly A FREE COUNTRY. You've had your protests forEVER and when libertarians/conservatives have one, you're all agog (OH MY G*&^% ((oops, you wouldn't use that word)) how can they be this unpatriotic, they are so horrible, they are brainwashed by FOX News, they CANNOT think for themselves....)
Sheeeeeeeesh
Get a life and go get your check
I protest doubling the deficit. I protest further unbalancing the tax structure. I protest blowing trillions on Government buy-offs in the name of "stimulus". I protest confiscating wealth. I protest the fascist nationalizing of industries. I protest destroying the economy.
You know, it's quite telling - EVERY other economy out there is looking to cut taxes. Where it's being tried, it's actually WORKING. So what does our idiot in chief - with his legion of Marxists like you - propose? Higher taxes (which he lied about - they'll affect everyone). He plans to greatly expand the Socialist net in these United States that will add tens of trillions of unfunded mandates over the next 20 years, and will do NOTHING to stimulate the economy now.
He's systematically destroying the economy. That is what I protest. And apparently you Marxist idiots fear the majority waking up to this reality, and it's why you're pressing so hard to stifle these demonstrations.
Dissent is patriotic, no?
HOPE AND CHANGE!
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 13, 2009 08:31 PMTell me who proposed "Tarp"
Tell me the truth abut Thomas Payne, I bet you don't know!
Get a life
Posted by: Jay on April 13, 2009 08:31 PMEXACTLY. They act like they are scared that something WILL come of our "little" tea parties. Just wait, just wait.
"Dissent and protests were patriotic just a few months ago. People spent weeks camped in Crawford, TX to protest US involvement in Iraq. But now, when much less aggravated citizens simply hold up signs expressing their displeasure with the current Obama administration and its massive bailout mentality, it's sends the left and their media shields in to a tizzy."
Yes, dissent and protests are for the left/progressives ONLY, all others need not apply because your views do not count...........feeling a little crowded? Don't like it when the kid getting beat up by the bully finally gives you that black eye? Fini a(*&(*&%
Posted by: givemeliberty on April 13, 2009 08:33 PMWe really want to hear how you've worked your way out of abject poverty by taking menial jobs and saving for your education while supporting the rest of your family.
Tell us about those 100 lb bales of hay you bucked while growing up on the plains, trying to get through high school. Tell us how you worked those double shifts drilling oil wells in the cold winters of Wyoming, Montana, and South Dakota, saving for college.
We'd love to hear about those times you were ordered to crawl into a hole in Viet Nam with a flashlight and a 45, praying the drops of sweat on your hand don't cause your trigger finger to slip.
Or that firefight at 0200 when you're face down in the mud praying to live one more hour.
Yep, you are one sympathetic bunch alright. Too bad for you we get to see your fat bellies and hear your pointless rants on You Tube these days.
Get a brain. Taxes are already increasing, and the budget being pushed through increases them a lot, on pretty much every person.
TARP was proposed by Patrick Kennedy (Slavery Party, RI district 1) as HR 1424. Not the incorrect answer you were hoping for, right?
Thomas Payne would be horrified by the socialist/fascist nation we're becoming. And by the cheerleading of Marxist Slavers like you.
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 13, 2009 08:39 PMHe promised to "halt the rise of privacy in that region[off coast of somalia]."
Wow, that's gotta spell the end for him and his administration.
I'm pretty sure that kind of slip of the tongue is impeachable.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on April 13, 2009 08:58 PMSelf-governance, eh? I think I can get behind that. Would that be the kind where a majority of voters can get together to end a disastrous regime and install a government of their choosing? Or are we talking about the kind of "self-governance" where a relative handful of malcontents can impose their sophomoric ideology on the rest of us?
Fortunately, we have the former, so please, go ahead, get together with your friends on Wednesday and wave your teabags for the cameras. I have no problem with that because I can't think of a better way to remind the rest of us that elections matter.
Posted by: scottd on April 13, 2009 09:05 PMNot a big supporter of the 1st amendment, Scottd? Or is that only reserved for Democrats when protesting a Republican administration?
I think the tea parties are fine. Most of us will be intensely relieved when we're reminded that the guys behind them are no longer in power and we'll want to make double certain it stays that way. And that's a good thing.
Posted by: scottd on April 13, 2009 09:24 PMSuch a counter protest would likely get plenty of TV exposure. The 'progressives' are very rich top-down organizations and can put rentamobs on the streets when they feel it profitable. They also own direct contacts and influence with the media, which accounts for the lavish and sympathetic coverage that lefty street mobs habitually are given.
It isn't beyond belief that they will send their troops to counter the tea party rallies with their coordinated messages and - the media loves these - beautifully printed signs and bullhorns and puppets and street theater. If we're lucky they'll have black masks for even more dramatic effect.
The difference between a spontaneous movement, which the tea parties are, and the oh-so-organized lefty screaming squads, will be quite apparent. And it will be very good for the public to see on their TV screens the first spontaneous turnouts since before the lefties adopted the European custom of intimidation-by-street-mob in the 1960s. Should be quite a show.
Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on April 13, 2009 09:31 PMNow that you claim ownership of the posting in which you posit a complete lie - the lie that The Herald had decided against covering the Tea Party - why would you even consider doing such a thing? Is your credibility worth nothing to you? What in the world gave you the idea that such a completely bogus posting would be unanswered?
Let's be clear: I'm the editor who will be making the decision on coverage or not. You never called me to ask, or even to promote this event. Never.
And now you're offended that I didn't recognize you as the author of the lie?
As you note, we had a civil exchange of emails last year. I admitted I was wrong in my understanding of how your handle was registered on Heraldnet.
Sorry, I did the same thing today. I did not understand that the string of numbers on the false "story" was your signature.
Now I know. I won't forget.
Robert Frank
City editor
The Herald
frank@heraldnet.com
No, I read it just fine. You said the people gathering on wednesday were only going to "impose" their sophomoric ideology on the rest of us".
Some of us would call the given right by our founders to peacably assemble and express free speech as a just that, a right, not an imposition as you just proclaimed it to be.
Posted by: Rick D. on April 13, 2009 09:36 PMBTW, who's looking to increase taxes across the board? I'm seeing a tax cut!
Posted by: scottd on April 13, 2009 09:41 PMRead what I said again, Rick. I was asking Pudge about how his vision of "self-governance" would work. I've been pretty clear about suppporting your right to assemble and spout whatever idiocy you like. Like I said, it's a Good Thing.
Riiight, we're idiots for peacably assembling, but when group-think liberals block traffic downtown, or traffic on I-5, or riot in the streets breaking store front windows and tipping over cars or throwing pies in the face of visiting speakers on college campuses, scottd would no doubt call those actions patriotic dissent.
Everyone knows which political party is the party of fascism in America today, and it isn't the Republican party.
Posted by: Rick D. on April 13, 2009 09:59 PMYes, Obama's budget will add $11 TRILLION in debt, that more than doubles where it stood when he took office.
Deficit spending? The 2008 budget was $480 billion in deficit. Now we're looking at more than $1.3 trillion. That's pretty much tripled.
So I guess facts elude you, don't they?
Oh, and you WILL pay higher taxes. They may be stealth - by taxing small businesses who will raise prices to compensate - or they may be direct - like targeted taxes on a multitude of individual items. Or they may be in the form of letting those Bush tax cuts expire (which will raise everyone's rates). But you'll pay more taxes.
So anyway, I guess you're against paying higher taxes, then? Is that what you're saying?
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 13, 2009 10:02 PMNo, I didn't say that -- I would say it depends on the circumstances.
Sounds like you won't be able to make it to a tea party, Dan. Maybe Rick can wave an extra teabag for you...
PS: The 2008 budget may have been $480M in deficit, but that's not where Bush left the actual spending. Heckuva job!
Posted by: scottd on April 13, 2009 10:11 PMAnd I'll be at a tea party - I'm in the States right now. The fact you're willing to allow the insane spending and fascist nationalization of industries really tells VOLUMES about your real position.
Too bad your "vision" of America is completely opposite of why this nation was founded... Sad, really...
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 13, 2009 10:14 PMNow that you claim ownership of the posting in which you posit a complete lie - the lie that The Herald had decided against covering the Tea Party
I did no such thing. You referred to "This Sound Politics posting." I am the one who posted this posting, as it says at the top of the page ("Posted by pudge at April 13, 2009 09:22 AM").
But this page contained NOTHING WHATSOEVER about The Herald except for Bob Clark's comment, until you came along. You can check. Search for "herald" on this page. The first occurrences are Bob Clark's. The next are yours.
And I already told you this in my previous comment, when I wrote "I made no comment of any kind about The Herald in this posting."
I repeat: I made no comment of any kind about The Herald in this posting. And to clarify, I made no comment about The Herald's coverage of this story in ANY posting ANYWHERE on this site or anywhere else. And I never claimed authorship of any such thing, either.
You owe me an apology for your several false claims about me, and you should think more carefully before you speak next time.
Obama is a master at doing this, but only when his teleprompter is on-hand. Left to free wheel it in his speeches (like confusing Piracy with Privacy- Classic), he's typically good for at least one gaffe.
Posted by: Rick D. on April 13, 2009 10:22 PMcrushing debt crushes all
seriously, most legislators have never run a lemonade stand; and their handout-loving constituents could care less--and can't or are unwilling to connect the larger dots like you point out for the macro-view...too busy with Dancing w/ Stars...
hidden taxes in the form of creeping income brackets, higher passed-on op expenses to the consumer, lapsed tax credits, changing definitions of taxable items for more sales taxes, passing many WA bills as "emergencies" like routine---all stealth ways to avoid direct voter scrutiny and actually having to justify tax increases;
like the whole carbon credit trading scamola--etherial "quasi money things" changing hands for what? for actually making widgets and adding value? nope. forget the money---follow the CONTROL...
Posted by: jimmie howya doin on April 13, 2009 10:25 PMI now see how your error was committed, when you say some "string of numbers" was my signature: you said "this Sound Politics posting" while replying to a different posting.
You were referring to http://soundpolitics.com/public/2009/04/everett_herald_refuses_to_cove.html (which I never even read, let alone wrote)
But you replied on http://soundpolitics.com/archives/012849.html when you said "this Sound Politics posting."
Two completely different postings, and you provided no context or other indication that you were referring to some other posting entirely.
Enjoy the party!
Posted by: scottd on April 13, 2009 10:29 PMTimothy Geithner was one of the primary architects of TARP. And there were several tax increases in the stimulus.
scottd@75:
Self-governance, eh? ... Would that be the kind where a majority of voters can get together to end a disastrous regime and install a government of their choosing?
No. It is the form of the government that is at issue, not whether that government is elected democratically.
Or are we talking about the kind of "self-governance" where [a group of people] can impose their sophomoric ideology on the rest of us?
No, that is the opposite of self-governance. That is what we are protesting against. Unfortunately, the democratic system has given us a government that rejects self-governance.
scottd@88: PS: The 2008 budget may have been $480M in deficit, but that's not where Bush left the actual spending.
Correct. That is where the DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS left the actual spending. The last REPUBLICAN budget (FY2007, passed in late 2006) was less than $200 billion.
Bush's 2008 Budget request projected a $410M deficit -- just shy of the record deficit his admin (and the Republican congress) racked up in 2004. And that did not include off-financing for the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan -- nor did it include the Economic Stabilization Act that he later requested and signed into law, pushing the 2008 deficit well over $1 trillion. Congress may have gone along with him, but it was Bush's administration that requested and executed the actual spending. Like I said, heckuva job, Bushie!
And for all that deficit spending, the Obamassiah is looking to double it. The overspending of Bush was bad enough; the hyper-overspending of Obama will economically destroy this country - we won't recover from it.
So if you were so pissed off about Bush's deficits, I'm sure you're all ready to publicly state here how you are totally against Obama's reckless and insane spending spree, and that you condemn the Obama/Pelosi/Reid economic plan.
Or do you just condemn the Republicans?
HOPE AND CHANGE!
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 13, 2009 11:45 PMYes, after it was proposed to him by Paulson, and designed in part by Bernake and Geithner.
If your point is "this is all the Republicans doing," I can't agree. If your point is "the Republicans are just as much to blame as the Democrats," then yes.
Bush's 2008 Budget request projected a $410M deficit
The Congress actually writes and passes the budget. And Bush's FY2008 budget as requested was actually only about $239b deficit, so you're wrong again.
nor did it include the Economic Stabilization Act that he later requested and signed into law, pushing the 2008 deficit well over $1 trillion.
Um, which was FY2009. Yes, really. The 2009 fiscal year began on October 1, and Bush signed the Act into law on October 3. So you're wrong again again. :-)
Yes, I posted the same response on both the Public Blog posting of the fabricated story, and here in response to a writer's comments.
The person who wrote the intentionally false story was someone who posted on the Public Blog as 6p0115701476ef970b. This person is the one spreading a lie, and also claims that the county Republican party also is disseminating his or her lie.
I note that the false story has now disappeared from the Public Blog, or perhaps my ignorance of this board may have caught me incapable of finding it.
I misunderstood your first posting to me above and read it to mean you were claiming responsibility for the fabricated and intentionally misleading story, which was anonymously posted by 6p0115701476ef970b. I was wrong in how I read that and appreciate your efforts to clarify things for me, and apologize for my misunderstanding.
As I said before, 6p0115701476ef970b's actions have put unnecessary complications into what normally would be straight-forward event coverage. When The Herald covered the Tea Party in Monroe a few weeks ago, it was a choice made here, without any public pressure incited by a lie. It was an easy news decision. We make those every day.
Robert Frank
City editor
The Herald
frank@heraldnet.com
Thank you very much for your reply.
swatter:
I see no problems whatsoever with how I responded to Mr. Frank. If you have a problem with what I did, perhaps you could contact me off-line.
Posted by: pudge on April 14, 2009 07:43 AMhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/12/national/main3822385.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3822385
The relevant paragraph is:
The Bush administration sent its final budget request to Congress last week, projecting that the deficit for all of 2008 will total $410 billion, very close to the all-time high in dollar terms of $413 billion in 2004.
And, like I said, the Economic Stabilization Act was proposed by the Bush administration. Paulson was a member of that admin, so it's nice to see you agree, even if you have a hard time saying so. You're right that this act affects FY 2009, but my point was that Obama has not tripled the Federal deficit (as Dan said) because most of that damage was already done in the Bush administration.
Posted by: scottd on April 14, 2009 08:22 AMRobert Frank
City editor
The Herald
Thanks for confirming the final Bush deficit of $410 billion. A shameful amount! But only about 1/3rd of what Obama will saddle us with for each of the next 4 years...
Yes, Bush left with a $410 billion deficit, and a national debt right at $10 trillion. Obama (despite his lying rants contrary) did NOT inherit a $1.3 trillion deficit, he built $900 billion of that himself personally and partook in the other $410 billion (he WAS in the Senate, after all).
Even the CBO says that the Obama budget plan will slow the economy and more than double the national debt. And that doesn't include the permanent mandates he's looking to add.
The fact you choose to ignore these basic truths speaks volumes about your partisanship. You are partisan, and apparently you acknowledge the lies, but have no problem swallowing and regurgitating them.
Good to see you're learning more about the shameful liar that now occupies the White House. Perhaps you should look at what he and his TAX CHEATING advisors want from your pocket, and ask just how much are they entitled to?
I've had the privilege of living in six countries on four continents, and running businesses on all those continents. There's a reason I work in China and Hong Kong now...
Freedom starts with the right to keep what you make. The US is no longer a free nation, and that is terrible. It was started under FDR and continues to this day. The current occupant of the White House is looking to accelerate that oppression to incomprehensible levels, levels that will demand more than half your life to still not fully sustain.
That you are fine with that says you are, in fact, a Socialist at best, a Marxist at worst. There is no other option. What free man lives to let his life's work be confiscated?
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 14, 2009 08:53 AMYou're right. He's really more of a fascist with Communist tendencies. That is what you call leaders who want dictatorial power, who nationalize industries, and demand "wealth redistribution".
Kind of a Mussolini with a big heaping of Stalin!
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 14, 2009 08:59 AMAs I said before, 6p0115701476ef970b's actions have put unnecessary complications into what normally would be straight-forward event coverage. When The Herald covered the Tea Party in Monroe a few weeks ago, it was a choice made here, without any public pressure incited by a lie. It was an easy news decision. We make those every day.
I am curious. Could you please clarify your comments?
Despite the other post, are tea parties news or not? If they are news regardless, how does it become more complicated?
Are you hinting that all anyone needs to do to compromise your ability to cover news is to "print" a lie about your anticipated coverage, or lack thereof?
If the event is news, cover it. If the event is deemed not newsworthy, perhaps you could at least explain what led you to that conclusion.
Posted by: SouthernRoots on April 14, 2009 09:00 AM"Dave Ross is as American as Seattle..."
Obviously, with Lenin's statue so lavishly celebrated in Fremont, and Seattle in general, that was one irony-rich statement.
Posted by: Rick D. on April 14, 2009 09:03 AMSorry, no. :-) In fact, the budget had already gone through Congress and was signed into law by Bush the day after Christmas 2007, more than a month before the "final budget request" you refer to (in mid-February 2008). This "final budget request" was based on the budget that CONGRESS wrote and passed, not the one he had submitted before Congress began its work.
All that said, I would be the last person to defend Bush's eight years as fiscally responsible. But as Dan points out, Obama is far worse.
I believe I understand what Mr. Frank is saying. When you get made a part of the story, then any decision you make, instead of being viewed impartially as you hope, becomes seen through the lens of your participation in the story.
As I said above, I think the way he handled it here has if anything contributed to the problem, as he has expressed negative emotions toward individuals and potentially contributed to any perception of bias that he may be worried about.
But I don't think it's a huge problem. As you say, it should be covered if it is a news event, and they should just let the haters hate. Correct any misperception, and then move on.
Posted by: pudge on April 14, 2009 09:19 AMDan: Your reading skills are right up there with Rick's!
Since Bush's final request you refer to was based on Congress' budget, not his own, I think you should be careful about attacking the reading skills of others. Word to the wise. :-)
I said his final request (made in Feb 2008) had a projected deficit of $410B. By the time his admin requested and signed the Economic Stabilization Act we had a defict that would be over $1T per year
You make it sound like the Act affected the 2008 budget. Again, it did not.
And again, while this happened before Obama took office, Obama's Treasury Secretary was an architect of it. If Obama disagreed with it, then surely he would not have picked Geithner.
I'll tell you libs the deal right now. WE the "producers" in society are sick and tired of supporting you LEACHES with OUR money earned with OUR labor and OUR inginuity. It's coming to a head NOW and there's not going to be any big happy socialist utopia for all of you who wish to live off the backs of the producers while lambasting our ideals, values, and work ethic. We're DONE PAYING.
The GREAT STATE OF TEXAS just fired the first shot across the ; where Texas has asserted it's State's rights vs the Federal Government. That's the first shot. Expect more.
Now, what do you know of how the Federal Government works? Who actually controls the purse strings? Is it that pesky little House?
In you want to point to the last Bush budget that actually went through basically unchanged, look at the 2006 budget, which had a deficit of $160 billion. Meaning about 1/8th that of the Obama deficit.
The House can spend a lot more than the President wants, because THEY WRITE THE BILLS.
And even more, Obama VOTED for the extra spending that you're trying to pin on Bush. Who sat in the Senate during the FY2009 budget, not the FY2008? That would be Barack Obama, who voted for every penny of the $1.3+ trillion spending we're currently seeing.
And if you're SUCH an opponent of extra spending, then why do you sit back and let that man propose $1+ trillion deficits as far as the eye can see? You do realize that in 3 years of Obama budgets (as he's laid them out so far), he will have added MORE to the national debt than W did in his terrible 8 years of spending.
Bottom line: do deficits matter? Answer that question in the affirmative, and you simply MUST condemn Obama/Pelosi/Reid for their wanton spending. Answer that question in the negative, and you must forgive W and the GOP for their profligate expenditures.
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 14, 2009 09:47 AMI condemn Bush for spending trillions of dollars to kill and injure thousands of patriotic American soldiers, make the world a more dangerous place for Americans, and make it harder for the USA to gain the cooperation of its allies.
And given that Bush did waste those trillions, I condemn him for making our children pay the bill in order to reduce taxes on people who were doing extraordinary well economically.
Posted by: Bruce on April 14, 2009 10:38 AMI condemn Bush for spending trillions of dollars to kill and injure thousands of patriotic American soldiers
I condemn you for using dishonest rhetoric.
Who received the biggest cut in their marginal tax rate - the wealthiest 2% that Obama wants to tax harder, or the bottom 50% to whom Obama wishes to grant more welfare?
As far as deficits and taxes go, you are upset that President Bush - with the advice and consent of the Congress and the current Secretary of State - freed millions of people and eliminated a despotic ruler, in the process destroying a multi-billion dollar illegal funding source running through the UN. That is your right.
Yet you deny those who see a generational theft - literally spending trillions now to curry political favor, at the expense of doubling - the on-budget debt and tripling the unfunded mandates for the future. Who wishes to penalize those already paying the highest taxes even further, and to give more money to those who don't even pay taxes.
So protesting this massive generational theft and wealth redistribution is wrong, but protesting against spending to stop a tyrant and free people is right.
Got it...
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 14, 2009 10:46 AMhttp://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=94803
Posted by: scott on April 14, 2009 11:26 AMFrom the looks of things at Scott's #121 link, I'm glad I did. Could be my Obama get-out-of-jail-free card or at least get me a pass in certain parts of town.
Posted by: G Jiggy on April 14, 2009 12:56 PM
Would someone please archive that mind-numbing, repetitive 'nyah, nyah' inanity until mid-Novemeber 2010?
I hear local scuttlebutt that there will be an organized counter protest. This may be fun to watch. -Posted by JoeBandMember at April 13, 2009 07:59 PM
Worse: Watch For 'Men in Black' At A tea Party Near You Tomorrow
Someone remind me again how much bambi loves America and her freedoms... perhaps instead of mailing him teabags (my friend, bless her heart, sent him a USED teabag...cracked me up!) red envelopes (2 million envelopes were delivered after the March 31st Red Envelope Day!) we should all mail him a copy of THE CONSTITUTION to remind him of his jog and OUR rights.
See you in Olympia.
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 14, 2009 01:58 PM#37 Pudge. Lies? Gimme a break. I don't have to lie. All Facts Support My Positions, and they always will, or I will change my position. Jeez. We don't want the government controlling our lives, we want it to keep the crooks on Wall Street from stealing what we have worked our whole lives to accumulate.
R-E-G-U-L-A-T-I-O-N
Got a problem with what our government spends it's money on? How many trillion go down the military rat hole? Might as well just burn it. It appears our economy may not be able to sustain us handing off more money to defense contractors than the rest of the world combined. What say you?
Posted by: All Facts Support My Positions on April 14, 2009 02:29 PMLies?
Yes.
I don't have to lie.
And yet, you do.
Have you read the Shock Doctrine yet Ragnar? You would enjoy it.
Too bad I have to work tomorrow. I would love to see the tin foil hat types drooling on themselves in Olympia.
Posted by: All Facts Support My Positions on April 14, 2009 02:35 PMThe problem is, the lefties think everyone who makes a lot of money is a crook, unless they donate lots of that money to liberal causes.
Most people on Wall Street aren't crooks. Most people at AIG did nothing wrong. We all need big and small business. They are good. It's so sad to see the Democrats demonizing business as a whole in order to undermine their political opponents.
The truth about the "teabaggers" is below. It ain't pretty. What Kos said was "You won't be able to swing a teabag tomorrow without hitting a corporate lobbyist or paid plant."
or how about
"Yes, the reality of the mass teabagging set for tomorrow is that it turns out to have been largely a creation of the same gang that already ran conservatism off the rails."
http://www.savetherich.com/
If the GOP hadn't done so much damage to the country I love, and serve, I would feel sorry for them.
Posted by: All Facts Support My Positions on April 14, 2009 03:24 PMThank you for proving my point about how much you lie.
I'd be surprised if any of them are, contrary to what you see from protesters representing the other side of the political spectrum.
Why is there a difference in behavior?
Posted by: Smoley on April 14, 2009 03:35 PMWanna see the face of the person that caused the housing crisis, Factless? Citizens Against Government Waste recently listed him as the Porker of the month for March. Read the article, you might learn something. Oh and the CAGW is a non-partisan organization. They're only concerned with unnecessary was in government whether it's done by Dems or Republicans.
Of course, in this instance, awarding this dubious title to Bawney Fwank also gives it a double entendre.
Posted by: Rick D. on April 14, 2009 04:27 PMMichael: Please learn the history of this country.The Boston Tea Party was sparked by the British Crown granting the East India Trading Company Sole distributorship of tea and other goods in the Colonies with paying import tariffs.
Please learn to read. This is what I wrote in the original post (except you probably meant "without paying import tariffs"). You appear to believe that someone who mentions the Boston Tea Party doesn't understand it, without actually reading what that person writes. Try again.
Today it would be Wal_mart and Halliburton
No, in fact, it would not. Neither one has anything remotely similar to a government-enforced monopoly, and neither one is being bailed out. The comparison is completely irrational. What it IS similar to, however, is, of course, the GM bailout, and others.
The Republicans have done a fantastic job of looting the average American.
Some of them, yes, but far less than the Democrats are doing right now.
The transfer of wealth to the ultra rich ...
Never happened, in fact. The rich did get richer, but not because of any "transfer" of wealth (you apparently are under the silly impression that if I do well it is only because other people lose out) and all the while they paid a significantly and increasingly higher burden of the taxes.
Socialism has been practiced by the right wing in the form of the Bush bailouts
I think you mean the Paulson-Bernanke-Geithner bailouts. Bush pushed and signed onto them, as Obama did, but those three designed them. And then Obama hired one of them.
If you are a Right Wing Conservative please do yourself a favor and find out where the terms "LEFT" and "RIGHT"come from.
After you learn where the term "progressive" comes from. Did you know, for example, that the Progressive Party in the 1950s was a front group for communists and Soviet spies? Literally.
They are in session in Olympia, so try to make the noon rally down there if possible.
Posted by: AP on April 14, 2009 05:36 PM
If you read the DHS letter to local law enforcement you might be appalled to find your favorite "single issue" in their watch list.
Or maybe you are veteran of the "wars" in Afghanistan or Iraq - you are also on their list.
Pretty soon we all will be on their list. This is how it starts.
Posted by: deadwood on April 14, 2009 05:50 PMNice try.
What color are you drinking today? Commie red?
The LAST major deregulation was the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act signed by your boy Slick Willie. In FACT, factless, there was no relevant deregulation in the last 25 years.
On the other hand we have (from about 42 years of democrap rule out of maybe the last 50) far too much over regulation and GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE where they have no business being.
Can you smoke at your place of business, the one you claim to own?
Can you add a room to the house for which you pay the mortgage and the taxes?
Can you cut down the trees or pave an annoying mud hole on your own property?
Can you walk into Safeway to pick up your Monarch vodka?
Can you stroll through a national park after sunset?
Those are just some personal infringements... how about those that impact the nation (Hello Fannie, Freddie and Community reinvestment Act forcing banks to act against their own best interest!)
We have the federal government (through the school system) grilling our children about private family matters. We have governments threatening to arrest homeschooling parents. We have government telling folks their dogs have been deemed a nusiance that must be destroyed. YOUR preferred brand of government is telling car companies what they MAY produce and telling YOU what kind of light bulbs you must use. They want per mile driving fees, they want an a tracking thingie in your drivers license, they want to know if your neighbor is drinking too much and they won't allow ME or YOU to contribute homemade cookies to a bake sale or your kid to eat peanut butter at lunch. YOUR favorite brand of government wants to force doctors to perform abortions AND assisted suicide against their will!
My parent were first generation Americans. THEIR parents came here for freedom and opportunity. That's all they wanted. They never asked for nor took a handout. They sent their sons to fight in America's wars and deemed it an honor.
THAT'S what the tea parties are about: getting this government, YOUR favored and preferred government out of the way so that we can enjoy the freedom and opportunity to succeed or fail on our own without you and your favorite pols in our pockets.
Capitalism has NEVER failed when left alone to grow. YOUR socialism has NEVER succeeded where it's been tried. EVER.
On March 22, 2009 "Scott" told us "Why I am depressed"
I feel utterly powerless to do anything about the fellow in the Oval Office who combines infantile leftism and adolescent grandiosity in roughly equal measures. It seems to me that every day he is responsible for assaults on the freedom and well being of the American people. I can't keep up and I can't stand to pay attention.
Not me.
I will NOT allow that halfbreed teleprompter dependant fool, that over-botoxed moronic nitwit nor that angry old grump from Nevada ruin MY country.
I will not stand silent nor go quietly. And there are MANY of me. Look for us in not only in Olympia but across this nation then ask yourself why the coward media doesn't mention it. I suspect they are enjoying the same color as you.
And the sad irony missed on all you slobbering liberals is that we are fighting back on YOUR behalf as well as our own.
Grow the hell up.
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 14, 2009 06:37 PMThey don't see it for the same reason most Germans didn't see it in 1932 - they didn't think they were on the list.
Only the Commies and Jews were on Hitler's first (public) list. They weren't liked by a lot of people, so they figured it was OK to let the government persecute them.
Tyranny always begins this way. The middle class in Russia were not the target of the Bolsheviks until they won the civil war. They first took out the hated Tsarists and then their supporters, and so on until nobody was left to stand against them.
Posted by: deadwood on April 14, 2009 08:59 PMbeen flying the Gadsden these days--patriots & historians will know why; sums up the views...but--soon, this simple expression too MAY be illegal, i fear;
our remaining masses will cherefully watch their TV's, munch on snax and dance w/ the stars/idols...soft underbelly meets pirates...
but aside---God Bless our Seals & Military & their Families! Heroes defined. Enabling us to sleep with security. I never forget that.
Posted by: jimmie howya doin on April 14, 2009 09:07 PMCudo's to all that can make it!
Posted by: GS on April 14, 2009 09:17 PMBut the great thing about the Obama overreach, is that's it is going to wake a lot of people up, and fast.
Posted by: Jeff B. on April 14, 2009 11:23 PMAnd the worst thing is that almost every bit of the attacks are red herring fallacies, like "you didn't protest when Bush was President" and "Fox News and corporate lobbyists are behind them" and "no one agrees with you" and so on.
Wow! When was the last time anyone outside of the Faux Noise/Limbuagh/Glenn Beck Axis of Weasels heard "halfbreed"? Thirty years ago? Fifty? Of course, the next several commenters can't get enough of this name-calling racism. I really have to wonder if not just Pudge, but this entire site is a parody of the modern right wing.
I hope Faux, just one corporate sponsor of the most like totally grass-roots protest EVAH, puts plenty of teabagging on screen tomorrow. Getting the number of teabaggers to appear roughly equal to the camera crew will be a tough directorial call, but Faux knows them some propaganda techniques, they do.
We liberals are not in the least bit afraid of our fellow citizens waving your shriveled teabags in public. (Heck, some of us even like bad performance art.) Please go right ahead, and try not to let our laughter drown out your mighty voices of righteousness. Pudge has already both claimed that "large" numbers support teabagging, but also admitted that hardly anyone will appear(!), so he knows this will not merely flop, but flop loudly and risibly. Given the huge hole the previous Administration dug from the peace and prosperity Clinton had bequeathed to us, we can all use a laugh right now. Thanks for providing it, gratis.
dependant
Oh yeah, we can't have a sneering put-down of another American's intelligence AND spell it right, now can we? Wave that bag, wave it high and loud!
Posted by: tensor on April 14, 2009 11:58 PMIs it not obvious that you dimwits elected a narcissistic paranoid??
Posted by: John Bailo on April 15, 2009 12:05 AMhttp://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/14/veterans-tea-baggers/
Nothing says "great patriotic protest" more than veterans telling you to go away...
Posted by: tensor on April 15, 2009 12:41 AMWhich must explain the incessant whining on this thread from anti-first amendment regressive trolls.
"Nothing says "great patriotic protest" more than veterans telling you to go away..."
They're not protesting the action, just the venue. Even some Veteran's have lost sight of what rights they were fighting to protect in the first place...this particular group appears to be one of them.
..."Teabagging" the Indebt-or in chief never felt so right.
Posted by: Rick D. on April 15, 2009 06:35 AM"This is part of a general phenomenon dubbed "Smart Mobs" by Howard Rheingold, author of a book by the same title, in which modern communications and social-networking technologies allow quick coordination among large numbers of people who don't know each other."
Actually, real "name-calling racism" can be found by your fellow travelers like Jamie Foxx on Sirius radio (redirects to Huffington post article where audio can be heard). Nothing says liberal class more than a group of "adults" calling a 16 year old a "White bitch" , "punk-ass", among other misogynist and racist terms. One pass through most of the loonosphere shows this is more of the norm than the exception with this group. Gotta be proud.
[Warning: you're likely to be offended by the audio unless of course, you're an immature regressive wasting away the trust fund daddy set up for you]
And we also find out @155 that katomar hasn't passed high school English...
Posted by: demo kid on April 15, 2009 07:18 AMI don't have any problem with those who want to protest and throw their "tea" parties. It is a basic freedom we have in the US. My only issue is with those who are so gun-ho on the tea protest who also slammed the anti-Iraq protesters as being anti-American. Civic protest, as long as it is done peacefully and orderly is American, no matter the cause.
Posted by: tc on April 15, 2009 07:21 AMWhat is "risible" is your complete lack of objectivity, your failure to do any independent verification of information before spouting liberal talking points and your sneering at people who actually DO think for themselves.
Fox news did not manufacture this protest, nor did conservative talk radio or any other corporate organization. You would not know this because the real problem is that the welling up of this protest was blacked out by the corporate execs at the various MSM outlets, and your first awareness of this phenomena occurred after they had established the meme that it was all a product of Limbaugh, Levin and Fox news. In fact, all these people were simply johnny-come-latelies. Sure they are on board because they would agree with the protesters, but they neither organized nor drove the agenda.
See the link below for a comprehensive time-line of the tea party protests
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/04/15/a-tax-day-tea-party-cheat-sheet-how-it-all-started/
As for your backhanded comment that Fox will try and use clever camera angles to hide the paltry numbers attending the protests. Do you have any documented evidence that Fox has EVER done such a thing? I know that SP and other sites have clearly documented when the MSM have done so for liberal events. So, I think you have it backwards. My guess is that The MSM will focus on the paltry turn out of the anti-protesters and their coverage will be designed to minimize the numbers of tea party protesters, ridiculing them while exaggerating the numbers of the anti-protesters and showing them in the best light. Let's meet back here tomorrow and compare notes.
Posted by: Eyago on April 15, 2009 07:53 AMPudge has already both claimed that "large" numbers support teabagging, but also admitted that hardly anyone will appear(!)
You are lying on both counts. Please don't.
I said that large numbers support the CAUSE ITSELF, not the event. Two different things. And far from "admitting that hardly anyone will appear," I said that I would not guess at how many would appear, and that numbers appearing do not represent support for the cause.
Talk to Jesse Jackson about the half-breed comment. And the Obamassiah called himself a mutt on multiple occasions.
That you wish to distract from the point of the Tea Parties is understood; they do, after all, represent individual liberty and freedom which is of course anathema to Marxist Slavers such as yourself.
HOPE AND CHANGE!
DISSENT IS PATRIOTIC!
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 15, 2009 09:00 AMOne, the left, is typically full of hate-filled, vitriolic and sometimes terroristic-minded (WTO anyone?) persons that believe their right to hate those in an alternate political party trumps a political parties right to hold a convention in their particular city.
From story in link:
"Court documents allege that the group's preparations ranged from practicing peaceful sit-ins to training for more violent tactics including throwing Molotov cocktails, overturning vehicles and rioting," wrote MinnPost. "Authorities also allege they organized other anarchists around the country for action in St. Paul."
"In raids on the group's hangouts, authorities seized PVC piping, paint, bleach, marbles and slingshots, bricks and cement blocks, gas masks, bolt cutters, firecrackers, empty glass bottles, flammable liquids, rags, etc. You get the idea. Items that made virtually every news report were containers of urine and feces."
Contrast that with nationwide peacably assembled groups using teabags as a symbolic gesture of protest to an out-of-control government spending/accountability affecting future generations of their families.
Ah to be young and dumb.
We are having a TEA party protest
Taxed
Enough
Already.
WE'LL be waving FLAGS... not dressing up as turtle mutants or pretending we're trees.
And BTW... my mid-20's son informed me of the way YOU use the word 'tea-bagging"... you're cleverness is only outweighed by your gutter vulgarness.
Grow the hell up.
I'm off to meet my group for OLYMPIA... look for the AMERICAN FLAGS. ... if any of our pet libs are able... or willing to recognize it.
We are not protesting the protest, we are making fun of this pathetic attempt at "getting to" President Obama by Dick Armey, and his astro turf organizers, and their sheep.
It is truly sad what the GOP has become. If they hadn't caused so much damage to our nation, it would be comical.
You keep fighting for the billionaires, and large corporations, and I will keep fighting for the working man, and small corporations like mine.
Answer me this PC. Why should the rich get all the advantages? Bush cut my taxes, but not the taxes of my employees. How was that good?
Dan. Do not use the word freedom. Everything you right wingers stand for is the opposite of the word freedom, except for making sure the corporations are free to steal from you and I. Think about it. How about...
Freedom to not be tortured?
Freedom to have a speedy trial?
Freedom to face your accuser?
Freedom to talk on the phone without being wiretapped unless they have a warrant and probable cause?
Freedom to not have your house searched without a warrant?
Freedom to not be prosecuted for being a Democrat? (See Don Siegelman)
The list goes on.
You hate freedom. Admit it.
Posted by: All Facts Support My Positions on April 15, 2009 09:31 AMIf Bush cut your taxes, doesn't that mean you can either pay your employees more or hire more employees? Tell me why that is bad? OR are you one of the greedy types that don't allow your employees to share in your business success? That would make sense based on the second half or your statement. If your employees did not get a tax cut it could only mean that you do not pay the enough to even pay taxes. After all, the marginal rate for the lowest of tax rates was cut by 33% (from 15% to 10%.) If you employees don't even qualify for that rate....
And yes, I would fight for billionaires and large corporations because unlike the left, I think everyone should be treated fairly. I don't have class envy. My problem, and the one most people on the right have is that we actually believe there is a limit to how big and how powerful government should be.
How about you? Is there a limit? Or should government take 100% tax and give the money back to those it favors?
Posted by: Eyago on April 15, 2009 10:05 AMThere are over 500 protests scheduled in all 50 states as of this morning. There might be a few added to that but not many I'd think.
The head of the GOP (Steele) had asked to speak at one of the Tea Party protests back east and he was politely turned down. This might not be true of all of these functions, because this is really a grass roots thing, but generally politicians aren't welcome. This is against them not for them. There is speculation that this could lead to a viable third party much like when the GOP replaced the Whigs.
Here is a very good article on the movement. I think the author really understands what is going on: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123975867505519363.html#mod=article-outset-box
The thing that really mystifies me, is why Facts, PIFan and the other leftists are so up in arms about this. There's no corporate support, it is across party lines and it is grass roots thing. So what's to be afraid of? I think that they see that this really doesn't bode well for Obamarama seeing a second term. The same thing that got the GOP ousted is now being done in spades by the Democrats lead by Obama. Multiples more in spending in his first 100 days than Bush in eight years makes quite an impression.
Buyers remorse is sweeping the independents.
Posted by: G Jiggy on April 15, 2009 10:09 AMMost of the tea parties look like of few people getting ready to go out for lunch.
Not quite the same enthusiasm we got protesting the war.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on April 15, 2009 11:20 AMI am watching what I see in the way of photographs from the conservative blogs with what I see on CNN, and again it looks like the majorly biased media is doing their best to try to minimize this.
I'll be the first to admit that the taxpayers have a little work to do before they are able to organize protests the way the communists at ANSWER do, but not bad for a first effort.
Posted by: johnny on April 15, 2009 11:30 AMThat's 6000 right there, and if it's representative and there are over 250 sites doing this, that's 75,000 people.
That assumes what I've seen is true and representative, but most of what I've seen have been from smaller city newspapers.
Again, these aren't college students and paid ACORN workers and the fires of rage weren't stoked by the admitted communists at ANSWER. No one I've seen has been in a mask.
It's a bunch of middle class people that are likely going to be pissed that they got so badly dissed by their local papers tomorrow. Expect repercussions.
Posted by: johnny on April 15, 2009 12:12 PMElections have consequences.
Act like Americans and make your changes through our political system, or if you want to talk revolution, prepare to be hung for treason.
We hang traitors. Now go defend the billionaires wealth some more.
Posted by: All Facts Support My Positions on April 15, 2009 12:12 PMThe point is, Yahoo's photo series is focusing on "color" not facts. They aren't trying to show how many. Their photos show people huddling in rain, holding a sign, waving a flag, that sort of stuff. You are drawing a false conclusion based on a poor assumption. Pretty much what we've come to expect from MSM fed zombies - no facts or objectivity.
Posted by: Eyago on April 15, 2009 12:18 PMSo tell me about Obama's buddy Bill Ayers?
Or Clintons buddy - the one that he pardoned - who sold all that nuke technology to foreign governments?
This is the U.S. and we know that revolutions don't need to be violent, they just need to be visible.
The masks and posturing were at your demonstrations AFSMP. We don't need that crap. "Dissent is patriotic" remember?
Remember the Republican revolution of 1994? The mainstream press underplayed and fought that one too. Don't remember it? (You don't seem to be old enough to.) Don't worry about it. You'll see a re-run soon.
How could we? Last I heard there were only two market cities left that actually still carry "Err America".
"Act like Americans and make your changes through our political system, or if you want to talk revolution, prepare to be hung for treason."
First, take your meds, then start reading the 1st amendment to the constitution about free assembly and free speech guaranteed in the document.
""We hang traitors."
You're one sick and twisted lump of tissue and membrane "facts". Seek counseling for that anger problem.
Posted by: Rick D. on April 15, 2009 12:25 PMI really thought it would take longer, but I guess when these intolerant types see this kind of resistance (You know - those Taxpayer protests Facts and his sock puppet frieds are working so hard to minimize) I guess they just feel like they have to drop the hammer.
These jokers want to play class warfare, but are too stupid to know that their opponent might just have the capability of defending themselves.
It's going to be a fun two years before the 2010 elections.
Posted by: johnny on April 15, 2009 12:35 PMWhen you tune into Air America (Which Schultz is not part of) there is one thing they don't have to do. Lie. Unlike Liar Limbaugh, and the rest of the slimeballs on the radio right.
I don't have to lie. You may disagree with me, but I don't have to lie.
Republicon Revolution/comeback? Not in a million years. What do they have to offer America besides lies, fear, division, christo-fascism, and greed. No one is buying what they are selling any more. What is sad, is the fact that they don't even realize it. Good luck turning back the clock.
Posted by: All Facts Support My Positions on April 15, 2009 12:36 PMJobs. Investment capital. Stability. The American dream. Religious freedom. Capitalism.
I might have to explain that first word to you. My guess is you probably don't have one.
Posted by: Johnny on April 15, 2009 12:41 PMInvestment Capitol? Bank leaches
Stability? You gotta be kidding. Read The Shock Doctrine.
American Dream? Sure buddy. What if you get sick?
Religious Freedom? How about the freedom to not have Jesus crammed down your children's throats?
Capitalism? Unrestricted Capitolism, winner take all loser get a shopping cart for retirement? I would rather have regulate capitalism where the weak are protected from the rich, and powerful.
Name one thing the GOP has been responsible for in the last 30 years that has worked out to be good for America. Forget USSR. They were bankrupt before Reagan started training Bin Laden.
Wages go down year after year while the wealthy hoard more, and more, and more.
Posted by: All Facts Support My Positions on April 15, 2009 12:51 PMTime to adjust your position. When you look ONLY at hourly compensation you see a downward trend from the peak of 1974, but when you look at all forms of compensation provided by employers, it is a steady increase from 1964 through 2005 (last year listed.)
http://macroblog.typepad.com/macroblog/2005/12/are_workers_los.html
Everything else you posted is factless and essentially no better than school-ground taunting.
Posted by: Eyago on April 15, 2009 01:12 PMThere is still poverty here. If you subtract out the 10's of millions of immigrants legal and illegal you'll find that it's probably not as much as you might think, but those immigrants came here because it's the country that gives them the best chance to escape it in the future.
As for "unrestricted capitalism" there are plenty of restrictions on capitalism. Thousands of them governing everything from who we can hire to what we can pay and when they can work. (I'm not arguing with about 90% of them and think they are a good thing. Democracy can be a wonderful thing.)
If you look back over this last crisis, the problem stems from Fannie May and Fannie Mac. Those are GOVERNMENT run - not private industry.
As for health insurance, it used to be cheaper before the government started regulating it and your democratic buddies put some laws on the books that made it so easy to sue doctors that the cost of their medical insurance went through the roof.
Now I'm not anti-government and not anti-lawyer. I pay my taxes and I haved hired more than a few lawyers in my day. I just believe that somewhere in the last 30 years ago it jumped the tracks and started doing things that it's not supposed to and that's the root of the problem.
We could debate the problems of government and private industry and we might even both learn something except you aren't a debater. You're a slogan chanting reactionary.
(And one that employs sock puppets to echo your position. It's obvious to anyone paying attention.)
Now, why don't you lay off the posting and go find a job. I'm sure everyone here will welcome the return to intelligent conversation and it might teach you something if you actually had to deal with government red tape and pay taxes.
I would be at mine today except I'm getting ready to go attend a Tea Party so I took the day off.
Posted by: johnny on April 15, 2009 01:14 PMYou're such a socialist troll all I can do is laugh at your ridiculous, hyperbolic screeching.
You think the governemnt is going to ensure fairness and make sure we all have a good retirement? Get real. These are the same idiots that have bankrupted social security.
The Reagan tax cuts were great for America, as were the Bush tax cuts. They created unprecedented economic growth and increased revenue to the treasury several times over.
This current downturn was caused by too much govt interference in the market, not too little. Idiotic laws like The Community Redevlopment and Reinvestment act compelled lenders to make bad loans, which Fannie and Freddie bundled and gleefully sold as mortgage backed securities. This was a terrible distortion of the free market for which we are all now paying dearly.
And you say the USSR was bankrupt when Reagan took over...hmmm. Thirty years ago leftist cretins such as yourself were cheering the Soviets on, blathering about how they have created some sort of workers paradise.
Now you dismiss our cold war victory by saying they were already bankrupt and you knew it all along! That's rich!
I definitely give you points for chutzpah on that count. You have it in spades.
As for a GOP comeback, it will be all but guaranteed as the economy worsens and suffocates under Obama's ever increasing taxes, govt spending and eco regulations. If any sort of cap and trade gets passed, you can kiss whatever manufacturing we have left goodbye forever.
Taxes go up, debt goes up, govt spending goes up while the working taxpayers pay more, more and more!!!
Posted by: Kato on April 15, 2009 01:14 PMNobody cares what a fan of a failed leftwing rag thinks.
Posted by: Kato on April 15, 2009 01:40 PMAlso of note was the contrast from the angry, unkempt, rent a mob style protests I have witnessed in Seattle. The fact is that the left owns anger, innapropriate expression and use of force when it comes to dissent.
There is much for the left to fear in a grassroots movement that wasn't directed through texting by funded lefty 501s, but instead an informal gathering of those who disagree with the current policy.
Now let's sit back and watch while one of the trolls proceeds to make something up about today's events from the comfort of their state employee desk.
Posted by: Jeff B.j on April 15, 2009 02:01 PM"This current downturn was caused by too much govt interference in the market, not too little." Kato, you really believe this? What were you doing when they sucked out your brain?
"Obama's ever increasing taxes" like the tax cut 95% of American Workers got?
Please tell me you dealer's number. He's been bringing you some reeeeeely good stuff!!!!
If you thing the GOP will make any kind of comeback in the near future, you better buy a credit default swap on that! America hasn't even begun cleaning house.
Posted by: All Facts Support My Positions on April 15, 2009 02:06 PMThe 1980's under Reagan saw the longest sustained period of economic growth in our history. How is that a tailspin?
The evidence that over-regulation is what caused this mess is overwhelming. The biggest recipients of Freddie and Fanniee donations are Frank, Dodd and Obama. Coincidence? I think not.
If you think people are going to reward the Democrats after making the economy even wosre for the next two years, it's you whose mind has been sucked out.
The real house cleaning will come when all the socialist politicians in DC and Olympia find their way to the ranks of unemployed.
And, there has been no tax cut for 95% of anybody. That's just a flat out lie.
Posted by: Kato on April 15, 2009 02:14 PMSome of us (not PIFan or his nom deplumes) were old enough to remember when Reagan took over from Carter and we watched what happened when someone who REALLY believed in America took the held could do.
By making major changes to the tax rates, he re-invigorated this economy in a way that empowered product American - not government bureaucrats looking to re-elected. He stopped listening to advice from people who didn't have our best interest at heart and unapologetically did what was right for America.
It was like waking up from a bad dream, and watch interest rates fall, real wealth go up, and and our enemies falter was an incredible thing.
It's interesting to see how hard dems and the libs try to can twist logic to try to blame the Fannie Mae/Mac problem on Reagan decades after his end while failing to understand that these were simply two government programs that our congress failed to control.
(That's a critique of both dems and GOP congresspeople by the way, though it does need to be said that only GOP senators members tried to stop the out-of-control lending practices. They were stopped by dems and a minority of their own party.)
Yes,johnny, "facts" has certainly exposed himself as being "less than balanced" mentally on this thread especially the postings around the time he tuned into the hate-spewing liberal Ed Schultz whom quickly filled his vapid brain with unfounded moonbat propaganda like sedition, secession and tyrannical overthrown of the government.
It's always amazing to see how ol'"Sgt" Schultz can elicit such a rabid pavlovian response by the mouth-breathing masses on the left. Truly amazing.
Posted by: Rick D. on April 15, 2009 03:39 PMYou obviously were not in Olympia.
I just walked in the door after my FIRST political protest. It was a wonderful friendly PATRIOTIC crowd. We sang to the country we love. We booed the politicians that ignore those of us for whom they work. We listened to some great speakers.. and I introduced myself to Pudge and to whom I assume is his darling wife.
We saw the KOMO van as we were leaving and walked with an 'unmarked' cameraman who told me he was FOX... I didn't ask if it was local or national.
An interesting day... I hope the chrissy queen was listening... [/snicker]... yeah right!, she'd have to care to listen.
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 15, 2009 04:49 PMEnough spending.
HOPE AND CHANGE! DISSENT IS PATRIOTIC!
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 15, 2009 09:11 PMNo, you're right Ragnar, I wasn't. I was at work, plugging away, doing my job, and keeping the wheels of commerce moving in our dear land.
Interesting to hear you say this was your "FIRST" political protest. Guess you are not one of those who protested fiscal irresponsibility during the prior administration . I wonder why not?
You say "It was a wonderful friendly PATRIOTIC crowd." What does that mean? That they all seemed to agree with your world view that we shouldn't have a democratically elected President?
Exactly what is it you don't like about the current tax plan? Did you know that it was formulated and put into place by a Republican Congress and signed by a Republican President?
Did you know the national debt has more than doubled because of this current tax plan, a plan that was formulated and put into place by a Republican Congress and signed by a Republican President?
Did you know that the new administration is proposing changes in the tax structure that will result in reducing taxes for 95% of current tax payers? I assume you didn't know that because it would directly contradict your assumptions that we're all going to pay more taxes.
I'm not sure what to make of you paragraph about the KOMO van and FOX "unmarked cameraman".
I guess your comment about "chrissy queen" refers to the current, duly elected governor of our state.
All in all Ragnar, it sounds to me like your protest had very little to do with taxes and a lot more to do with your dissatisfaction over who won the last election.
Don't feel bad though. It looks like your protest message is precisely the same as 98% if the rest of the folks who took off work and spent the day waiving tea bags. Namely, that you are very unhappy that your party lost the last election.
I for one would be a bit happier with the winner of the election if he was doing more than paying lip service to his pledges that duped the gullible.. I'm still waiting for him to go "line by line" through that "stimulus" package - you know, the one that got such careful consideration from our democratically elected representatives - to eliminate all the non-stimulus spending. Oops, I guess that's a do-over.. He's gonna shut 'em down on the NEXT one.
Try to wrap your head around this one.. It all has to be paid for. And it won't be by "the rich."
Posted by: RookieRick on April 15, 2009 10:39 PMExactly what is it you don't like about the current tax plan? Did you know that it was formulated and put into place by a Republican Congress and signed by a Republican President?
I assume you mean the current Bush tax cuts that were only passed because the Slavers agreed to a 10 year sunset clause? Those will expire next year, and the Obamassiah has stated he'll let them expire. In addition to the tax increases already implemented (by the Obama/Pelosi/Reid triumvirate).
Did you know the national debt has more than doubled because of this current tax plan, a plan that was formulated and put into place by a Republican Congress and signed by a Republican President?
Nice LIE there, Witless! The Federal Debt was $5.6 trillion when President Bush took office. It was just under $10 trillion when he left. It didn't double.
Of course, the Obamassiah is promising to MORE than double it!
So not only are you lying (there's a shock!) but you also really don't care about the debt because when your Obamassiah is promising to DOUBLE the debt that took 230+ years to build, you simply ignore it.
Did you know that the new administration is proposing changes in the tax structure that will result in reducing taxes for 95% of current tax payers?
Umm, that's already been dropped. It's down to 80% and falling. And that's not counting the taxes already bumped up on 25% of the population (smokers/tabacco users). And we're not even into the "cap and trade" insanity, or the other proposed taxes of the Obamassiah.
I assume you didn't know that because it would directly contradict your assumptions that we're all going to pay more taxes.
When the tax rates go back UP because the Bush tax cuts expire, EVERYONE will pay more taxes. The tax rates will raise by 50% for the bottom 50% of all tax payers - how is that fair? Oh, the Obamassiah promises to send back some checks, but makes no promise about how much and to whom (and he has yet to keep a single promise - broken dozens of them so far).
HOPE AND CHANGE!
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 15, 2009 10:43 PMEAT THE RICH!
HOPE AND CHANGE!!!
You are the MAN. "It all has to be paid for. And it won't be by "the rich."."
You are so correct. Cuz the rich know how to avoid those payments.
Let's see if we can maybe.... Change that situation.
To Dan:
That sunset clause in the current tax plan... That was put in there by the Republicans, not Obama.
The proposed Obama tax plan.... REDUCES taxes for 95% of current taxpayers.
On doubling the current national debt by W... your numbers don't include his little adventure into Iraq, which add a minimum of $1 trillion onto the total.
Nice try though, but we're just not biting anymore.
Hence, the pathetic turnout at the TEA PARTY today.
Elections have consequences.
Yes, and this time, some very bad ones. That is why we are protesting.
Act like Americans and make your changes through our political system, or if you want to talk revolution, prepare to be hung for treason.
Please learn:
* what the Declaration of Independence says about the right to overthrow the government
* what the Constitution says about what treason is
* what the First Amendment says about the right to peaceably assemble and petition the government
* what the Tea Party attendees have collectively advocated
Thanks in advance! Hope that helps!
Calling for secession, or a revolution is a crime.
No one is calling for secession, and revolution is not a crime: it's a human right.
I don't have to lie.
Again, yes, you don't. But you do anyway. A lot. For example:
Bush cut my taxes, but not the taxes of my employees.
In fact, Bush cut the taxes of ALL income tax payers. Every single one.
And to all you people continuing to bore us with the token tax cuts Obama is working on, they absolutely pale in comparison to the liabilities he is saddling us with. The deficit for just this year represents well over $5000 per person in this country (which of course will be a lot more than that for the middle class and above), and I should be happy about a $400 tax cut?
Reminds me of The Princess Bridge: "My brains, his steel, and your strength against sixty men, and you think a little head jiggle is supposed to make me happy?"
Witz: I've been ignoring you because no one cares about you. I am only telling you this because your last post is such a great example of WHY no one cares about you: asserting that the biggest protest at Olympia in many years is a "pathetic turnout."
More than 800 tea parties across the country.
5000 estimated in Olympia
Double that in Atlanta
3000 in Hartford
3700 in Cincinnati
>1000 in Des Moine, Iowa
>1000 in Chattanooga
2000 in Trenton
4000 in Lansing Michigan
>1000 in Salt Lake City
3000 in DC
2000 in NYC
More numbers out tomorrow... don't forget to bury your puny little ostrich head a bit further...
Simplified taxes under Team OhBummer as approved by his syncophants, appointed tax cheats and our cheering pet liberals ... careful what you wish for!
Hope! Change! Governmental THEFT!
We'll be here to pick up the pieces
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 15, 2009 11:41 PMYou just roll out lies like they're nothing more than a simple breath:
On doubling the current national debt by W... your numbers don't include his little adventure into Iraq, which add a minimum of $1 trillion onto the total.
OK, please provide an official price tag for the Iraq War under President Bush. Please, a reference here. Because it's not close to $1 trillion, it's closer to $600 billion.
And if you actually had a brain, you'd see I wrote the national DEBT - that accumulates all on AND off budget expenditures. There's no hiding from that one.
The bottom line, provable truth - Bush did a horrendous thing and took our national debt from $5.6 trillion to $9.8 trillion.
And the Obamassiah has already added another $1.2 trillion, and is promising to take it beyond $20 trillion.
Now go and learn a few things about how the budget is accounted for, and go and educate yourself about the actual costs of the Iraq War (which are FULLY ACCOUNTED FOR in that national debt).
Then you can come back and apologize for being a tool of your Marxist Slaver masters...
You really are a sad waste of space, aren't you? You're on the twit filter until you at least come up with actual facts - you know, something that is not your old talking point lies given from on high by your Obamassiah and his masters.
HOPE AND CHANGE!
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on April 15, 2009 11:59 PM"On doubling the current national debt by W... your numbers don't include his little adventure into Iraq, which add a minimum of $1 trillion onto the total"...
Where did you get those numbers 'Unkl Witz'? The DNC site?
How about these numbers where extorted tax dollars are wasted? ...family fragmentation costs U.S. taxpayers at least $112 billion each and every year, or more than $1 trillion each decade.
Ever read the Constitution 'Unkl Witz'?
Posted by: juandos on April 16, 2009 04:08 AM"On doubling the current national debt by W... your numbers don't include his little adventure into Iraq, which add a minimum of $1 trillion onto the total"...
Where did you get those numbers 'Unkl Witz'? The DNC site?
How about these numbers where extorted tax dollars are wasted? ...family fragmentation costs U.S. taxpayers at least $112 billion each and every year, or more than $1 trillion each decade.
Ever read the Constitution 'Unkl Witz'?
Posted by: juandos on April 16, 2009 04:08 AM
