January 05, 2009
"Salt being used to de-ice Seattle streets"
Fancy that. It's amazing what happens when someone realizes their elected office is on the line.
UPDATE: for perspective, note just a sampling of the left-of-center outrage (not exactly a small demographic in Seattle) at the City's performance in December.
And Joel Connelly for one, two, three, yes, even four columns.
That's a grumpy city Mayor Nickels has to find new ways to impress.
Posted by Eric Earling at January 05, 2009
06:58 AM | Email This
1. Too bad the loyal Seattle voters have such short memories. It's going to take many more "events" like this, a lot closer to election time before the fair city would even consider ousting He Who Carries A "D" After His Name. Even then I doubt it. Case in point, see: Gregoire, Chris.
2. Two points: If they were worried about the salt ruining the roads and bridges, you'd never know it by the current conditions of them. And there's enough rain around here to minimize the effects of said substance.
Initially, I heard the mayor was concerned about the drainage going into the sound but see they've included streams and such into the equation. Streams? If it was about what's going into the sound, and the mayor is so concerned about recycling might I add this suggestion..SEA SALT!
3. Like everything else in Seattle, they react with a solution when there's no longer a problem. This snow storm is already melting off before it even accumulated. There's no need for salt this time.
I see where the Seattle City Council is meeting today to go over the emergency preparedness situation, including roads.
Sounds like even the libs want a scapegoat. Wonder who it will be this time. Some poor schmoe following orders?
Actually, the Bag Man is caught between the rock and a hard place.
Many here are whining about Nickels not using salt. Now, he'll salt everything. And shortly, when cars start to rot, many of those same people will blame Nickels.
In this instance, he can't win... which is not altogether a bad thing.
6. Anyone that depends on government to clear the path for them whether of ice or in life is a fool.
7. #6, it's not 'depends', it's expects reasonable value for price paid...nothing more, nothing less. :)
8. #6, it is not 'depends', it's expects reasonable value for price paid...nothing more, nothing less. :)
9. Anyone who expects a reasonable value for price paid from government is a fool times two.
10. @9 There's nothing honorable in paying taxes to government and expecting nothing in return either.
11. Like you have a choice about paying taxes? What does "honor" have to do with it when you are forced to pay the taxes.
We spent last Saturday in Spokane where they are "used to the snow".
Well, the sidestreets are nearly impassable. Sidewalks are in many places non-existant. The main flat roads are driveable and they certainly use salt. If you live in a residential area you just can't get out.
I grant you that this is the worst snow Spokane has seen in years. However this myth that other cities just "handle it" is complete nonsense.
And we don't even want to talk about trying to get a cab there!
13. Don't rag on Spokane too much. I have it on good info that they DO normally do well dealing with the snow that comes their way. It's just that this year there has been an entirely overwhelming amount of it, that even they are having a hard time. But most of the time they far exceed Seattle. Even in this crush of snow, the main roads are still okay. Seattle City couldn't even do that with less snow.
14. Like you have a choice about paying taxes?
I never made a claim that you do. You claim someone's a fool if they expect something in return for their tax dollars, like clearing roads after a snowstorm. I claim anyone who doesn't expect something in return is a bigger fool. There's nothing redeeming (if you prefer that word) about "toughing it out" on dangerous roads because an inept government doesn't do what's necessary to make them safe.
I live in Spokane. After the initial snowfall where we received two feet of snow in about 36 hours, the side streets were impassable unless you had high ground clearance 4-wheel drive. After 2-3 days, the plows were able to get to the residential areas after the high-priority plowing was done. Since then, the plows have been by our house 3 more times.
It is definitely the sheer volume of snow here - in a short amount of time, with very little melting - that is our problem.
@#13, I don't disagree Michele, and I did say that this is the worst snow Spokane has had in years.
As for Seattle most of the main roads were also passable during the last snow, but people were whining because they couldn't get out of the own residential streets. It's been that way as long as I can remember any time it snows, and it's like that pretty much everywhere.
My larger point is that people in Seattle are spoiled, unprepared crybabies that acted as if it were the end of the world when we got a winter snow because they expected to government to prevent any inconvenience.
The reaction to this last snow was far beyond anything I've seen in the past.
Scott B, I have to say I've never seen a snow like that other than in the mountains. On residential streets cars are so covered with snow that you aren't even sure if they are cars, or just another pile of snow.
It was incredible, and I in no way mean to say that Spokane is doing a poor job.
In Seattle you always hear, "I'm from the, (midwest, east coast, eastern Washington, etc.), and we NEVER have the problems you people have here". I've heard this for years and it's in the category of "I walked to school barefoot uphill both ways" just not exactly the real story.
Palouse... you just go ahead and wait for the government to take care of you. Worked out well for the folks of New Orleans and I am sure it will work for you.
Wanna try to kick the football again, Charlie Brown?
19. Scott B, I am impressed. After just 2-3 days, even the side streets got cleared out in Spokane with all the extra snow they're getting. Here in Seattle area, almost no side streets got cleared out, and only started clearing when the thaw hit NINE DAYS LATER. And we had less snow than you guys have had in the same time period. Props to Spokane.
I am as tired of this discussion as I am of the snow!
Winter-highway-maintenance expert Prof. Wilfrid Nixon of the University of Iowa College of Engineering says good, old-fashioned salt is the best ice-buster. And another thing for the environmentally conscious to consider is the impact accidents have on the environment. "Every crash in the winter is an environmental disaster," Nixon said. "You have spills of engine oil, gas, coolant. It may not be hundreds of miles of road, but the effect is intensely local."
21. you just go ahead and wait for the government to take care of you.
I never claimed I do this either. You're sure good at straw men.
I do, however, expect something in return for my tax dollars, like safe roads, not boondoggles that Seattle instead spends money on.
When a road is plowed, it ends up narrower because the plowed snow is shoved to the side. Our neighborhood roads are in good shape, because the streets are wide, and the cars are parked in garages or driveways when the plows come through.
In older neighborhoods where cars are parked on the streets, the plows can only make one pass down the middle, and sometimes it actually weaves a little to avoid parked vehicles on either side of the roads. These roads can get pretty bad...
We sent some pictures of the snow to my parents, who snow-bird in Arizona. My dad told me that "That's a lot of snow, even for a guy raised in Minnesota."
So what did Seattle do last night? Apparently they salted like mad.
How dumb can you get? It was a snow that rapidly was turning to rain with warming temperatures. Not much reason to break out the salt. By this morning our street was bare and wet. Seattle liberals are as amusing as they are annoying.
24. Ha, I agree Bill. Last night's snow was more what we usually see---a couple inches and then it melts off by morning on the streets. That's NOT what people were complaining about. They wanted salting when we got tons of snow and freezing temps that meant it wasn't going anywhere. Like two weeks ago.
Not amusing and not annoying, I think incompetent is more appropriate.
We will be in deep do do if we ever have a real emergency around here!
PS did you see they were resuming clean green today in Seattle, great news now you can put all your grass clippings from the past 3 weeks of mowing out at the curb. It took me a little longer to mow my yard since I had to use my snow blower first, but I managed..
Seriously it took them 4 weeks to get my recycling because last week, after 3 weeks, it was regularly scheduled clean green week.
How do you spell idiots, more choices around here than you can shake a stick at!
Oh and by the way Eric, Seattle is always a "grumpy city".
It's a state of being found wherever liberals congregate. Walk by Seattleites on the street and they avoid eye contact so they won't have to smile and say, "morning!" You can go to Seattle any day and perform this experiment.
It has become a very unfriendly city where people are so devoid of common courtesy that they routinely block the entire sidewalk at a bus stop forcing pedestrians to walk into the street to get around them.
Seattle is 80% liberal. They are grumpy and a perpetual state of outrage about any number of things. This week it's those mean Israelis picking on those poor innocent Palestinians.
Things get weird in the big city when we have a planet's mayor and not a city's mayor.
Jamieson was very good on our leadership vacuum. And if Geov -- to the left of Pol Pot -- gets it, maybe we can get Plugged Nickels away from us.
(Repeated often during our long local nightmare were reports that side streets over in the real Nickelsville, Greg's neighborhood in West Seattle, were free and clear. And riddle me this: If Greg is utterly unmanned by salt and snow, how will he and we deal with a 7.0 on the Richter Scale? All the wake-ups we've had, and we're clueless about even rudimentary reactions to real disaster. Sux to be on the Burnin' Ring of Fire with green libs in charge.)
From the Seattle Times:
Arterials were safe and bridges were open during December's snowstorms, Seattle Department of Transportation Director Grace Crunican said this morning.
She must have been sniffing too much de-icer, another reason to use salt!
I think that was true, tg.
No one yet has been able to note which arterials were not open within 24-hours of the storm.
Yup Seattle should have used salt. Despite that you could pretty much get around with just front wheel drive unless you lived on a very steep hill.
You've got to be careful what you ask for, particularly in a city run by liberals. If we aren't careful the city will ask for a huge tax increase in order to buy a massive inventory of snow removal equipment. Like we really need that for the once every 5-year snowstorm.
I think we had the best idea from good old Charlie Chong when he suggested that larger trucks be retrofitted with the ability to use a blade.
The city, county and state have a number of trucks that could be used for dual service.
But then again we never elected poor old Charlie.
I liked Charlie. I think he also proposed that we buy some used snow removal equipment as well.
But Charlie made sense. No wonder he wasn't elected in this nutty city.
32. The salt was merely a political statement. In reality, the streets did not need salt, considering the temperature was at or above freezing all during the event and the weather forecast and finally what actually occurred. Mayor 5-cent saw that his ratings were tumbling and that's the bottom line. Maybe there are enough intelligent people out there to see through that - maybe...
Like you have a choice about paying taxes? What does "honor" have to do with it when you are forced to pay the taxes.
Actually, you do. I estimate my 2008 tax load to the United States of America, the State of Washington, the County of Snohomish, and the City of Edmonds to be around $1500 complete, dominated by gas/flight taxes. And this is done legally.
Where there is a will - and a creative mind - there is a way!
34. Our owners certainly came up with salt quickly. Where was it -- and why?