December 21, 2008
Priorities of Government

Seattle streets are expected to remain dangerously covered in snow and ice for several more days. Mayor Greg Nickels offers little more than his regrets:

Most side streets will not be covered by city plows.

"We just do not have the capacity to do that," Nickels said.

Meanwhile, Nickels is lobbying the incoming administration for $7 million to spend on an uneconomic scheme to put solar panels on top of Qwest Field Hall
"Conservation in and of itself is a public good, and we're going to be investing heavily in that," Nickels said.
Passable city streets are also a public good, and unlike these particular solar panels, is an investment that actually makes economic sense.

Nickels is up for re-election in 2009. Hopefully he'll attract an opponent whose priorities are more grounded in reality.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at December 21, 2008 12:08 PM | Email This
Comments
1. I guess Mayor Qumby thinks global warming will eliminate the need for snow plows...

Posted by: Walters on December 21, 2008 12:22 PM
2. How many times a year does Seattle need that many snow plows? I grew up in Colorado, and our snow was cleared pretty quickly, so I understand the frustration about Seattle snow not getting cleared quickly, but I understand that the plows and salt trucks necessary to do that work are expensive. I don't know how many of those trucks the city/county has, or how much it would cost to get enough to clear all the side streets every day, but I guarantee that it would be a lot.

That said, I've been in the Seattle area for several years. I missed the 2006 winter to be in Iraq, but I was here last year, and there was nothing like the amount of snow experienced that year or even this year. Seattle just doesn't get enough snow to justify a gigantic fleet of snow trucks that would only get used occasionally.

As for the solar panels, they are a solid investment. While it's true that panels have a fairly large up front cost, they present a great deal of long term cost savings. The article cites a 12-14 percent cost savings, and while the Seattle Times may not think that's much, I do. Furthermore, the proposal on the table is for the cost not to come out of the state or city budget at all, but to come from the federal stimulus package that Obama has been pushing.

Posted by: Robby on December 21, 2008 12:23 PM
3. I read (on Twitter, while I was investigating exactly what a Twitter was) that city of Seattle has 27 snowplows. ... Not nearly enough for the stretch of interstates, let alone arterials and side streets.

I've often thought that with our rare ice and snow that homeowners should just make a loose pact amongst themselves to salt the roads the length of their properties.... especially out here in the eastern foothill hinterlands where we're lucky if the main roads are attended to.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on December 21, 2008 12:43 PM
4. Our Mayor's out begging for nickels for a theatrical trick. Some Mayor. If he really felt that solar panels were a good investment, he'd commit the money of his faithful local taxpayers (let alone his own bucks - couldn't he chip in a few himself as leadership by example?).

But no. He wants the taxpayers of Albuquerque and South Bend and Atascadero and Tustin to pungle up for his holier-than-thou posturing in sacred Seattle, where solar energy is much vetoed by precipitation. Hoping that his own voters will applaud his parasitism against those other poor fish, whose suns actually shine.

Time for a Mayor who represents the locals, and works to make their lives less subject to natural hazards. And actually believes enough in his oh-so-important 'public transportation' that his streets can carry his buses without making public spectacles of them, dangling off precipices in snowstorms.

Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on December 21, 2008 12:56 PM
5. Nickels is simply part of the global leftist machine that cares nothing about their locality. In effect he's nothing but a Commissar implementing the worlwide Communist revolution.

Posted by: Crusader on December 21, 2008 01:12 PM
6. RE: Ragnar

That's an interesting idea.

Posted by: Robby on December 21, 2008 01:15 PM
7. I detest Nickels, but that said, if he spent a few million dollars on snowplows, soundpolitics would bash him for wasting money on snowplows that would only be useful 3 days out of your average year.

Posted by: Andrew Brown on December 21, 2008 01:22 PM
8. 7, point taken;

however, it's the relative priorities i rant about--the public potty fiasco, money for free drunk apartments, yet no state of art fire or police equipment; money for illegal alien assist & bene's; awash in "art park" money while we all wonder & hope that our port and response teams are ready for a terror attack & fully supplied; nuke free zone, hate free zone, city diversity dept bureaucracy; WTO & criminal coddling legal settlements--all the usual liberal feel-good tripe but no room for practical items;

i guess priorities of govt are relative--i'd prefer simple things like plowed streets, police patrols & good garbage service more than "inclusive" diversity & sister-city fluff programs;

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on December 21, 2008 01:41 PM
9. Fluff programs makes liberals feel good and that's all that matters.

Posted by: Crusader on December 21, 2008 01:43 PM
10. Back in the good ol' days before Greg Nickels had emerged from the murky Sound Transit bureaucracy, one Charlie Chong scored huge points with the electorate in Seattle by pointing out some cheap portable units that could convert dump trucks into snowplows on short notice.

The current City bureaucracy prefers not to remember this, but for a place where's there's a sporadic but real need for snowplows, that makes sense. Far more sense than mounting, on top of a private sports palace paid for by Seattle taxpayers, some feeble solar panels paid for by everywhere-but-Seattle taxpayers.

Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on December 21, 2008 01:58 PM
11. Robby.

Sorry not going for the Solar panel idea.

Just another waste of taxpayer funds that will take years to recover. And that's if they even maintan them, which by the way the city has been run by Nickels and his gang. Not likely.

Posted by: Medic/Vet on December 21, 2008 02:00 PM
12. HAHAHA, anyone watching the Seahawk game?

It's snowing there too.

Posted by: Medic/Vet on December 21, 2008 02:02 PM
13. Seattle has proven themselves to be a Mecca for Progressives- Socialism and pinkos coming out the closet. With the indoctrination from the inner City public school system, many young voters have been long since duped by the public schools into believing Mayor Nichols has viable solutions that merit a vote, that really consist of fluff and hot air. Their ideologically blinded parents and adults that make up the electorate are already in lock step with the status quo.

They can't see that inner cities (not just Seattle) are badly broken thanks to dominance of liberalism because they are ideologically blinded. Not every one is - there are at least 14% of the voters who voted for McCain/Palin in the last election who may well see the unbiased big picture for what it really is.

These are substantive arguments that can be verified by simply checking out how Seattle has deteriorated from the early 1960's to now. To those who say it doesn't matter, I challenge you to project with the current rate of progression how dilapidated Seattle will be 20 years from now. This can be diverted if smaller more efficient government from someone unlike the elitist libs like Nichols, et.al. are able to govern Seattle. Now, I'd say that there are two chances of this happening - slim and none. Complacency knows no bounds !


Posted by: KS on December 21, 2008 02:09 PM
14. Seems to me the easy solution is for the private sector to pick up snow plowing and contract with local jurisdictions like they do where it snows regularly.

Who here wants to start that business? Guaranteed contracts every two or three years, often for up to a week. Good use of capital.

Sheesh, take care of yourselves and quit whining.

Posted by: BA on December 21, 2008 02:26 PM
15. The priorities in Seattle will never be rational. The majority of the electorate views themselves as victims and vote as if money grows on trees.

Posted by: Jeff B. on December 21, 2008 02:36 PM
16. Waaahahhhahahhh. whats the government going to do?
I wish they wouldn't plow any roads and lower my
taxes. Why do people need every little thing?

Posted by: mark on December 21, 2008 02:43 PM
17. No one has mentioned that with the present start of the art, solar cells are not an attractive investment, either in economic terms or energy terms. This is especially true in this area of reduced sunlight like ours. They are great in space where the sunlight is strong and continuous. They are also nice for "off grid" applications where there is no viable alternative. For the time being, the solar cell is more like an energy annuity with a long payback. This is due to the large amount of energy required to produce them. Likely, this will improve as the technology advances, but for today in sunlight challenged Seattle, no sale!

Posted by: Fed Up on December 21, 2008 03:03 PM
18. Let's see, if I remember right there's dozens of City of Seattle trucks and SUVs. Considering that for $1500 you can convert them to light-duty snowplows, we could, for $2 million dollars, convert AND pay for overtime for 100 conversions really easy, thereby increasing the size of the plow fleet nearly 500%.

Sorry guys, guess I'm missing one heck of a blow! I'll be back on Tuesday though, so maybe there will still be some snow left...

Posted by: Shanghai Dan on December 21, 2008 03:52 PM
19. Mark
Why do people need every little thing?
_________________________________________

Who say's we want everything. You pay taxes and expect some gov services. If the gov isn't going to do that then don't keep increasing taxes.

Just like the Fire dept. You pay for it and expect that service. But no.. what does the city do. They have a levie to pay for medcial care that should be part of the fire service.
So where did your taxes go that paid for the fire dept in the first place?

Get the point!

Posted by: Medic/Vet on December 21, 2008 04:06 PM
20. My complaint is that King county and Seattle never get creative to solve problems. How about the county offers to pay individuals or companies that own snow removal equipment to help remove the snow on county roads? Several private citizens in the county foothills own plows and tractors, also several property management companies own equipment to remove snow from parking lots.

This way the county does not have to pay for an unnecessary fleet of trucks that might be used once very 5-10 years and we can keep people employed in the private sector and help out businesses that may be otherwise facing cutbacks.

A little creativity goes a long way....which is why we need to stop electing people who have never spent a day of there life outside of government.

Posted by: jk on December 21, 2008 04:37 PM
21. Really, a private management company finds it cost effective to own equipment to remove snow from parking lots every 5 years or so? Really?

Are you making this up?

Posted by: BA on December 21, 2008 05:22 PM
22. Salt can not be used on Seattle roadways.

Saltwash is thought to impair salmon habitat.

Nevermind that there are NO salmon in Seattle's salmon habitats.

Sometimes I forget that Seattle is not a city, but rather a intrusive infection of invasive species composed of human aliens, constantly interfering with the recovery of its former Lewis and Clark ecosystem.

When will the Mayor's office return to a glorius stand of old growth?

Solar Cells require the mining and processing of toxic materials. Their manufacture requires huge amounts of energy. The balance sheet on cost recovery doesn't include these overheads.

Posted by: Bart Cannon on December 21, 2008 05:27 PM
23. I was thinking of buying a snow blower, but I figure why bother when we got Obama?

Posted by: pbj on December 21, 2008 05:41 PM
24. Bart Cannon asks, "When will the Mayor's office return to a glorius stand of old growth?"

With all the dead and petrified wood in that office, there's no room for anything that resembles life.

Posted by: Saltherring on December 21, 2008 05:42 PM
25. After Seattle blew over $10 million of automated toilet's that turned out to be fancy crack houses, there is NO EXCUSE for not spending enough money on snow removal. How many new trucks would that $10 million have bought?? At least it wouldn't have been piossed down a hole!

Posted by: pbj on December 21, 2008 05:44 PM
26. Well, it looks like my wife and kid are stranded in ABQ because Seattle doesn't have enough de-icer for the runway.

Awesome. This is the result of a 99 day union strike by potash mine workers in canada. I am infuriated right now. They were supposed to be back last sunday but scheduling problem after cancellation problem has pushed them out to today, and now they get cancelled while they are on a layover.

Posted by: Andrew Brown on December 21, 2008 06:10 PM
27. Any sufficiently old Chicagoan remembers the great snowstorm of 78, 'Boss' Daley had died and the machine appointed Michael Bilandic as successor. But he mismanaged the snow removal in '78, and the voters tossed him.

Chicago voters expected and tolerated a high level of corruption but they also expected plowing. Obama's political guru David Axelrod once said "Any mayor in any administration who doesn't feel an absolute sense of urgency when there's a major winter storm is someone planning for his next career."

That is true in Chicago but not in Seattle, where voters seem to tolerate anything as long as you've got that magic 'D' by your name.

Posted by: russell garrard on December 21, 2008 06:42 PM
28. OK all you Idiots, more snow plows mean more drivers means more employees, means more money. Seattle would need 100 plows and employees to do the job. Makes me wonder are you just bitching to dish on the Mayor. I suggest there are better things to look at. He has increased the number of plows, so stuff it. I love Republicans, they will slam anything to try and gain position. that is the difference between the Dems and Pubs, the Dems stand for issues and even support Pubs that do good, the Pubs will slam all to look good to the voters, LOSERS> DO me a favor and go drink some KOOLAID

Posted by: Fire Officer on December 21, 2008 06:59 PM
29. OK all you Idiots, more snow plows mean more drivers means more employees, means more money. Seattle would need 100 plows and employees to do the job. Makes me wonder are you just bitching to dish on the Mayor. I suggest there are better things to look at. He has increased the number of plows, so stuff it. I love Republicans, they will slam anything to try and gain position. that is the difference between the Dems and Pubs, the Dems stand for issues and even support Pubs that do good, the Pubs will slam all to look good to the voters, LOSERS> DO me a favor and go drink some KOOLAID

Posted by: Fire Officer on December 21, 2008 06:59 PM
30. OK all you Idiots, more snow plows mean more drivers means more employees, means more money. Seattle would need 100 plows and employees to do the job. Makes me wonder are you just bitching to dish on the Mayor. I suggest there are better things to look at. He has increased the number of plows, so stuff it. I love Republicans, they will slam anything to try and gain position. that is the difference between the Dems and Pubs, the Dems stand for issues and even support Pubs that do good, the Pubs will slam all to look good to the voters, LOSERS> DO me a favor and go drink some KOOLAID

Posted by: Fire Officer on December 21, 2008 07:00 PM
31. OK all you Idiots, more snow plows mean more drivers means more employees, means more money. Seattle would need 100 plows and employees to do the job. Makes me wonder are you just bitching to dish on the Mayor. I suggest there are better things to look at. He has increased the number of plows, so stuff it. I love Republicans, they will slam anything to try and gain position. that is the difference between the Dems and Pubs, the Dems stand for issues and even support Pubs that do good, the Pubs will slam all to look good to the voters, LOSERS> DO me a favor and go drink some KOOLAID

Posted by: Fire Officer on December 21, 2008 07:01 PM
32. Hey BA @21....property management companies own versatile equipment that can be used for plowing snow and picking up snow. It can also be used to push dirt, dig dirt, remove landscape, crush concrete, etc, etc....see BA, they use what is called a tractor (that is multi functional), plows that can be placed on the front of different trucks and backhoes with a front fork, in other words they have equipment that serves more than one person..So yes they do have the equipment.

Go back to your one track union job. idiot.

Posted by: jk on December 21, 2008 07:01 PM
33. Jk, I sign more paychecks in a month that you'll earn in your lifetime.

A tractor, or a backhoe, isn't suited to plow lane miles of roads in any level of efficiency.

Does a property management have the equipment? No. Can they hire snow plows in Seattle. No.

I understand your political views cloud any judgment or education you've clearly wasted. That said - get a clue.

I hope you're employed in a safe job - lose it in this economy and you're toast.

Posted by: BA on December 21, 2008 07:11 PM
34. Fire Officer X 4:

Four times you stated "Dems stand for issues" and four times I laughed my ass off, as the only issues I recall your president elect addressing during the campaign were "hope" and "change". I guess we'll have to wait for Jan 20 to learn about issues and policy.

Posted by: Saltherring on December 21, 2008 07:20 PM
35. " I love Republicans, they will slam anything to try and gain position. that is the difference between the Dems and Pubs, the Dems stand for issues and even support Pubs that do good, the Pubs will slam all to look good to the voters"

Posters like this have an attitude problem and show the mindset of infected Seattleites - holier than thou, but a partisan hack through and through. Always the victim, but where's the accountability ? (The Elitist Democrat in charge in Seattle don't need any stinkin' accountability). So you attack the one item that may be overstated under spending on snow removal, but you have lost all credibility when you refuse to admit the waste by the current Seattle government. I live outside of Seattle and to its residents; you get what you deserve. Complacency knows no bounds !!

Posted by: KS on December 21, 2008 07:24 PM
36. Hey BA!!!

This is what I love about liberals. If the government cannot do something than it either cannot be done or the government needs a bunch more money to get it done.

I have a large client who offered the services I mentioned above to the county. He has 4 large trucks with plows, 8 tractors that can be fitted with plows and would have done a small but significant job of helping to clear "back roads" next to his properties. The county said "only government trucks are certified to do this". Now think about this for a minute.....if he was willing to do this (greatly reduced rate over what he charges clients) there had to be more. And you know what, if there weren't any more takers, hell you can say you tried...........

You can sit around and say "well we are maxed out sorry, we need more money" or you can think outside of the box and try and fix the problem.

SO, you tell me who is more educated....the person who thinks outside the box or the moron who rules out an option before he even tries to make it work.


Posted by: jk on December 21, 2008 08:22 PM
37. Labeling someone a "liberal" because they are more thoughtful than you doesn't cut it.

Read back toward the beginning of this thread when I said that the government should contract out snow plowing services...

Great to know that someone would offer to plow out roads near their own properties using the taxpayer's nickel.

You're slow and late.

Posted by: BA on December 21, 2008 08:55 PM
38. You all must have missed the story about Nickels begging at the trough of Santa Obama. He wants $7 million from the stimulus program that Obama is putting together to save our nation.

I don't know your idea of a priority, but this sure isn't what I want my tax dollars spent on. Of course, most of the nonsense that will end up in this albatross of a bill will be a complete waste. But I bet it will end up in the pockets of some well connected contractors who some how will be the winning bids on these "essential projects" that will lift us out of the disaster that Obama and Biden say we are facing.

If they just stayed out of it, it wouldn't be such a disaster.

Posted by: janet s on December 21, 2008 11:03 PM
39. A tractor, or a backhoe, isn't suited to plow lane miles of roads in any level of efficiency.

"any level of efficiency" ...besides the great humor of that line as an oxymoron in the context of Seattle/King County/WA government... I'd give up efficiency for some clean side streets to get to the damned "government plowed" roads...wherever the heck they may be.

You gotta START somewhere... not starting at all because you can't be "efficient' is the exact problem with government... and liberalism.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on December 21, 2008 11:47 PM
40. Hey Fire Offcer,

What issues did DEMOCRAT WIlliam Jefferson stand for when he kept $90K of bribe money in his freezer?

What issues did Blagojevich stand for when selling the Illinois senate seat?

Unione hack.

Posted by: pbj on December 22, 2008 01:41 AM
41. ANd Fire Officer,

Just how efficient was the $10 million spent on the fancy automated toilets that got sold off on ebay for $25K each?

Posted by: PBJ on December 22, 2008 01:42 AM
42. I just hope not, even though I should know better. But it looks like (fire officer) is one one my fellow union hacks!

Posted by: Medic/Vet on December 22, 2008 06:37 AM
43. I visited a friend in Pittsburg a few years back when a snowstorm hit. I was surprised at how quickly they cleared the roads.

My friend who is a bit left leaning made this comment: "Politicians don't get re-elected if the roads don't get cleared and the potholes don't get fixed". And he is right. City government needs to get back to basics and stay out of the foo foo fluffy stuff.

The way these guys got the road clear was simple. Every city vehicle from a 4wd pickup on had a blade on the front. Some of the drivers were obviously office staff. Nobody was too good to clear snow.

Posted by: Vince on December 22, 2008 07:24 AM
44. Here is a cost saving idea. Seattle should buy 100 small snow plows that fit on the front of 1 ton pick-up trucks. Distribute the plows to landscape contractors, and contact with them to clear streets. No additional city employees are needed, the landscape companies maintain the equipment, and the city only incures costs when it snows.

Posted by: Moondoggie on December 22, 2008 08:44 AM
45. Contract to put some plows on the front of garbage trucks... of course, that assumes we'll get garbage service... maybe we'll get our garbage picked up THIS week... poor babies couldn't manage the ice last week.... I wonder if we'll be credited for a week of no garbage, no recycling...

MAIL TRUCKS! "Neither rain, nor snow, nor death of the night, can keep us from our duty"

:)

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on December 22, 2008 10:10 AM
46. If you live in an unincorporated area like us, there's no plowing either. But MLKC is happy to tell us we can't touch 65% of our property! We haven't had garbage pickup for two weeks either, and today was supposed to be our pick up. So that will be 3 weeks. Why indeed can't garbage trucks be fitted with a plow?

Posted by: Palouse on December 22, 2008 11:41 AM
47. Well, I've had enough. This morning my husband got stuck one inch from the ditch, going up a slight hill just 100 feet from the turn to our driveway. (South Summit, P.C.) We both spent about an hour trying to maneuver the car straight enough so it could back down the hill and go around to a flatter route, using plywood, gravel, everything we could think of. During that time about six of our neighbors passed us going down the hill. One big pickup even waited patiently for us to move slightly so they could go around us. No one stopped to help. Later on, I went out alone (my husband works graveyard in Kent and has to sleep) and started to try to shovel that little slush-filled hill, so at least there would be some clear ruts to travel in. Again, lots of people passing by and waving, looking out their windows and waving, and no one helping. I'm a 60 year OLD woman, so I finally said screw it and went home (before I experienced cardiac arrest!) So much for community involvement. However, I did notice this fall that most of those people had Obama and Gregoire signs on their property and vehicles. Maybe that's the problem. Not many conservatives in my small neighborhood!

Posted by: katomar on December 22, 2008 11:53 AM
48. Regarding retrofitting city and county vehicles:

That should be done as a minimum. It doesn't take much to retrofit a public works pickup or dump truck. The more the merrier. In the foothills of Eastern Washington, every pickup truck, it seems, has a snowplow on the front.

I was also shociked to find my little 500 ATV with front snowplow was able to do a bang up job. Not as good as a real snow remover but impressive nonetheless.

Cities and counties should be all over this cost-saving measure.

But, I can understand trying to minimize the cost of snow removal in a city/county budget. Some cities do the most minimum (on purpose, I think) in the hopes the natives don't complain and then provide a slow response. Let's face it. The once or twice a year it snows here in Western Washington, it melts within a couple of days.

Speaking of melting- let's hope and pray that we don't get a good rainstorm at the same time we get the melt. All this snow has the potential of causing some real floods.

Posted by: swatter on December 22, 2008 01:03 PM
49. Let's hope they don't dare whine about snowpack/'drought'/raised water prices because of too much/not enough!

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on December 22, 2008 01:13 PM
50. There will ALWAYS be enough fodder for complaining by those who 'choose' to complain. :)

Posted by: Duffman on December 22, 2008 01:25 PM
51. Any indication if mail service is going to happen this week at all?

Posted by: Crusader on December 22, 2008 01:49 PM
52. Hey, Duffer, easy to say for someone enjoying Puerto Rico right now!!!! Come on back home and join the rest of us schmucks in our misery...

Posted by: katomar on December 22, 2008 03:16 PM
53. We got mail... and a phone call from Rabanco saying NO garbage pick-up again this week... but hey! we'll let you put out 3x the garbage, recycling and yard waste next week. Yippee.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on December 22, 2008 03:39 PM
54. I am no fan of NYC but I did live there for almost 4 years. When it snowed they stopped picking up garbage but used the trucks to clear the roads. I think much like chicago, they know if they want to keep their job they keep the roads clear.

Posted by: Lysander on December 22, 2008 04:24 PM
55. After being out on the road today I feel I need to make a prediction.

Expect an Emergency "Temporary" gas tax by spring. This freeze has done some damage to the roads and all the other emergency temporary gas taxes that were never repealed wont cover it.

Posted by: Vince on December 22, 2008 04:34 PM
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