December 16, 2008
Don Ward on Nickels' Gun Ban

Good post by Don Ward over at Seattle Weekly about Mayor Nickels' gun ban. He surely knows he is violating the civil rights of every Washington citizen, and breaking the law. Nickels should go to jail.

I especially love the note that "Nickels spokesperson Alex Fryer helpfully tried to suggest that most of the audience members in attendance did not live in Seattle," as if that matters, even if it were true. As a resident of Snohomish County, I still have the right to carry a firearm in Seattle. It's not OK for Seattle to violate my rights while I am in Seattle just because I'm not a resident there.

Color me unsurprised that Seattle liberals only care about the law when they agree with it.

Posted by pudge at December 16, 2008 11:52 PM | Email This
Comments
1. The left proves once again that they are the criminal's best friend. By identifying more places with large numbers of unarmed victims, Nickels does more for the criminal element than ever before.

Shame on these gutless bastards.

Boycott Seattle businesses.

Posted by: joebandmember on December 17, 2008 05:02 AM
2. Seattle deserves the "leaders" it votes into office, just as those who voted for Nickels have earned the right to be accosted by armed gang punks while walking home from the park.

Those who value Second Amendment rights, however, do not deserve to be denied Constitutional protection from criminals, nor from despotic tyrants like Nickels.

Notice to Nickelsville: If I suffer from an outbreak of amnesia (or blatent stupidity) and happen to end up in Seattle, I will be armed.

Posted by: Saltherring on December 17, 2008 06:14 AM
3. 'Seattle deserves the "leaders" it votes into office...'

That may be so, but the peripheral surrounding area who support the Seattle economy DO NOT. :)

Posted by: Duffman on December 17, 2008 06:35 AM
4. Well this "yokel from Auburn, Kent or Enumclaw.." can't think of a good gun shop in Seattle anyways. No need to go there.

Posted by: PC on December 17, 2008 07:13 AM
5. Simple. If he is indeed knowingly violating the civil rights of every Washington citizen, impeach him.

Posted by: swatter on December 17, 2008 07:36 AM
6. Gee Pudge, Under pretty much the same banner (Public Safety), George Bush and Dick Cheney violated the civil rights of thousands of Americans. And you never said a word about it, much less suggested they go to jail for it.

The left isn't the only end of the political spectrum that ignores laws they don't like.

Posted by: Unkl Witz on December 17, 2008 07:45 AM
7. Unkl Witz, so the many times I've spoken out against warrantless wiretapping -- from the very week the news originally broke to the present -- is me "never saying a word about it"?

Not that I would expect you to read everything I write -- had you done so you'd be a lot smarter than you are -- but since you don't, perhaps you should be slower to judge.

And the reason I don't suggest jail/impeachment for Bush is simple: I only suggest it for Nickels because it is an absolutely clear-cut case here, whereas there is precedent for warrantless wiretapping. An actual dispute over the meaning of the law should not equate to jail time or impeachment, usually. But flaunting an absolutely clear law, that's different.

If you can find an example of Bush doing that as a means to violating our civil rights, let me know. I know of none. As much as I disagreed with the decision to withhold certain rights to an American citizen held as an enemy combatant (yes, I was also against Bush in Padilla v. Rumsfeld), there was an actual legal argument there. I was glad it was tacitly shot down, but I won't say he should be jailed or impeached for having a legal disagreement. But there is no reasonable legal disagreement with Nickels. He is deliberately violating the law to violate our rights.

And the reason I don't suggest it for Cheney is even simpler: he didn't actually do anything, as far as we know. Dunno why you think he did.

Posted by: pudge on December 17, 2008 08:08 AM
8. Well I don't know what those who feel the need to protect themselves when they come into the city are supposed to do. Seattle is not know as the safest places in Washington, after all.....Quite the opposite. So Nickels wants the law-abiding citizens to be at the mercy of law-ignoring thugs?

Posted by: Michele on December 17, 2008 08:30 AM
9. I don't pay much attention to gun rights arguments, so perhaps you could enlighten me here. His proposal is to ban guns from Seattle city buildings and city parks. Is this so different from banning guns from public schools, courthouses, airports, etc?

Posted by: Chad on December 17, 2008 08:33 AM
10. Chad: yes, very different. There are certain places specially zoned in state or federal law as being "gun-free."

The point here is that Seattle cannot put in place a policy more restrictive than state law against our gun rights. This is clear in the law.

Posted by: pudge on December 17, 2008 08:37 AM
11. Maybe Nickels is just worried that you'll pull a Plaxico Burres?

Posted by: Mat on December 17, 2008 08:43 AM
12. Shouldn't everyone have the right to shoot themselves in the leg if they are so inclined? :)

Posted by: Duffman on December 17, 2008 08:49 AM
13. Mat, let him be worried. Don't let him violate my rights.

Posted by: pudge on December 17, 2008 08:55 AM
14. Bet you Wiz-head never said a word when Clinton and his gang was using the IRS to go after anyone who went against him.

Posted by: Medic/Vet on December 17, 2008 09:18 AM
15. Shouldn't everyone have the right to shoot themselves in the leg if they are so inclined? :)
__________________________

Only you Duffie, only you.

Posted by: Medic/Vet on December 17, 2008 09:22 AM
16. Pudge fumes, "Nickels should go to jail."

Geez, why stop at that? I'm surprised you're not calling for a hanging. But, pudge, we have these things called "courts" that decide whether laws are constitutional and whether regulations are legal, without actually incarcerating the losing side.

Posted by: Bruce on December 17, 2008 09:35 AM
17. Check out this Canadian article:

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=4a451ee5-71c3-4f29-a826-3260fb1eaaa1&p=1

Posted by: Bob in SeaTac on December 17, 2008 09:44 AM
18. Hey Joebandmember,

I'm a liberal, I own Kimber, Ruger, Mossberg, and a fine 5" Colt Anaconda. Please do not paint "liberals" with such a broad brush. Mayor Nickels is an idiot on this, and clearly doesn't know or understand state law. The state laws in Washington on gun ownership and possession are absolutely clear and understandable. Any law more restrictive than state law will be struck down, simple as that. Nickels can't possibly have read the law, and is wasting our time and money. Responsible gun owners are not the problem, and there's hardly an epidemic of shootings in parks and other city property. I seem to hear lately of teenagers shooting people in malls...? Now THAT'S a problem!

Posted by: anonymous liberal on December 17, 2008 09:45 AM
19. Bruce:

I'm surprised you're not calling for a hanging.

That doesn't say much for you.

But, pudge, we have these things called "courts" that decide whether laws are constitutional and whether regulations are legal, without actually incarcerating the losing side.

There IS NO argument for Nickels. He is clearly violating the law, unequivocally.

Posted by: pudge on December 17, 2008 09:57 AM
20. The 10th Amendment is proof positive that pretty much everyone only obeys the laws that they care about.

That said, as I've said in the past this is infuriating. It's going to waste a lot of taxpayer money and screw up someone's life to get it fixed.

Posted by: Andrew Brown on December 17, 2008 10:12 AM
21. Bruce.
Did you fail to read what Pudge had written. Or are you really that stuipid! (no really I mean it)

The LAW say's Nickels cannot do this and you ask why not?

Jezzz our gov schools are so failing us.

Posted by: Medic/Vet on December 17, 2008 10:39 AM
22. If pudge is right, there is always impeachment or a class action suit.

Posted by: swatter on December 17, 2008 11:35 AM
23. Am I the only one that doesn't hold much hope in impeachment (or recall, however it works in that office?)?

Seems like the law can be completely ignored anymore.

Posted by: Andrew Brown on December 17, 2008 12:46 PM
24. Andrew: I hold out no hope whatsoever.

Posted by: pudge on December 17, 2008 12:48 PM
25. So, "anonymous liberal" why do you keep supporting the idiots whose only response to violent crime is to punish the law abiding by identifying more places for criminals to find large numbers of unarmed victims?

Posted by: joebandmember on December 17, 2008 01:57 PM
26. I swear providence controls my inbox. Just today I was forwarded this email from a pal in Florida

For all of you who own guns, read this, because this is what the NRA (National Rifle Association) has been saying for a long time but people don't seem to listen. ... Just think what group is always talking about gun control and how much we need it.
A Little Gun History Lesson
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. >From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
In the state of Victoria alone,homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!
It will never happen here? I bet the Aussies said that too!
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

Now, do I think the massively misguided Mayor Nickels intends mass extermination after his civil rights trampling gun grab?

Of course not.

But I do think he has a big, wet, snotty camels nose inching under the tent flap.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on December 17, 2008 04:10 PM
27. leave it to Gil to protect us--
cant remember anyone I know who "lost" their own gun; what a joke of a mayor & chief

coddling criminals +
bending to pressure groups & laywers =
catching innocent citizens in the middle of both pincers; where did law & order go?
when will we learn?

bring back Paul Kersey!

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on December 17, 2008 04:16 PM
28. I think we should make a law that says it's illegal to fly a jet into a skyscraper. It sure
would have saved us alot of trouble and money.
It's Bushs' fault!

Posted by: Mark on December 17, 2008 06:05 PM
29. Pudge@19 fabricates, "Nickels ... is clearly violating the law, unequivocally."

What law is Nickels violating? What is the penalty?

Posted by: Bruce on December 17, 2008 07:58 PM
30. He's actually not violating any law that I'm aware of, but his 'rule' is preempted and repealed by state law.

Unfortunately, it's going to require a test case, to my understanding.

Posted by: Andrew Brown on December 17, 2008 08:09 PM
31. What law is Nickels violating?

RCW 9.41.290. "The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state ... . Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed ..."

As it is clear that we DO have the right to bear arms on public property in this state, and this issue is not one of the exceptions referenced by 9.41.290, Seattle therefore cannot restrict us from doing so. Can't get much clearer. There is no wavering room here. Nickels is violating our rights, period.

(Andrew, "shall not be enacted" means that Nickels is violating the law by enacting it.)


What is the penalty?

I don't know offhand if there is a penalty for a public official willfully violating the rights of the people (other than impeachment etc.). If not, there should be. Ask one of the Democrats' civil rights lawyers.

Posted by: pudge on December 17, 2008 08:15 PM
32. I've never heard it seriously suggested that there should be a penalty for enacting an law or rule precluded by the constitution or law, other than having that rule voided. The main reason for this is that there is often a legitimate question of whether a law/rule is precluded. As you surely know, Nickels has made a case for why his rule is legal. I'm not at all confident the state supreme court will agree with him, but I applaud him for trying.

Posted by: Bruce on December 17, 2008 08:59 PM
33. There might be some sort of 'color of law' federal case that could be raised, but I doubt anyone that can bring said charges would do so.

Posted by: Andrew Brown on December 17, 2008 09:46 PM
34. Nickels has made no case for why it's legal. It's not, plain and simple.

Posted by: Andrew Brown on December 17, 2008 09:47 PM
35. It is not a question of "rights" so much as it is a question of "Is Nickels breaking the law?"

from a reading of the statue RCW 9.41.290. "The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state ... . Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed ..." it certainly appears that Nickels is violating the law of the land.

Repeat, Nickels apprears to be intending to violate a law of the State of Washington. It "doesn't matter" if he wishes to ban private carry in city parks, sell those parks to developers and pocket the proceeds, or hold a parade without a permit, he is publicly intending to violate the law.

That previous and current Mayoral administrations have already made parts of Seattle law enforcement free zones, I am not surprised at all that Nickels wants to ignore more laws.

"We are today in the most literal sense a lawless society, for our law has ceased to be law and become instead its opposite -- mere force at the disposal of whoever is at the controls." Charles A. Reich, _Peters Quotations_, (c) 1977.

It hasn't gotten any better since then.

pyotr

Posted by: pyotr on December 18, 2008 10:56 AM
36. Bruce:

As you surely know, Nickels has made a case for why his rule is legal.

A dishonest case, yes. He is citing a precedent that has nothing to do with this situation. In that case, the court said the city was acting as a private entity for a specific purpose, and as such a rule banning guns was allowed. Regardless of the merits of that decision, it does not apply to a ban on all city property. Nickels knows this.


pyotr:

Repeat, Nickels apprears to be intending to violate a law of the State of Washington.

He absolutely is. He dislikes the law so he is trying to see if an activist court will overturn it for him, or at least get a dialogue going to see if the people will back him enough to get it changed by the legislature. These are not sufficient reasons to violate our rights.

Posted by: pudge on December 18, 2008 01:36 PM
37. what do the elite politicians care? they have body guards & police at their instant call; no treatment centers or tent cities on their home blocks;

you & I suffer the Katrinas, Watts Riots, WTO's, happy sports pennant riots, sad jury verdict riots, nuts at the mall, carjacking, home invasions---and we're expected to just suck it up and move on?

not me; this scorpion has a stinger; used only when cornered; take heed; i've yet to see Dodge City in "carry" states; it's more like Self-Reliant City and Respect City since criminals & punks never really know who is "ready & able"; they have to do their homework to case out their easy prey; and the media NEVER tell the story of prevented crimes;

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on December 18, 2008 03:57 PM
38. Nickel's penalty for violating gun rights should be hot tar and feathers and run out of town on a jackass, the democratic symbol.

Posted by: Peter on December 18, 2008 10:48 PM
39. Greg Nickels is illegal. I'll pack in Seattle any time. When arrested I will hire a good attorney and prove his scam unconstitutional. However someone should throw him in jail for it first. GREG NICKELS IS AGAINST THE LAW.

It's only a matter of time before a real revolution begins to get rid of scum like Nickels.

Posted by: IAMSasQuatch on December 22, 2008 05:40 PM
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