November 10, 2008
The People Have Spoken

Ignore them, says the Seattle Times.

Washington state just elected a new Superintendent of Public Instruction, Randy Dorn, who defeated incumbent Terry Bergeson.  Dorn campaigned principally on a promise to get rid of a standardized test, the Washington Assessment of Student Learning".

Randy Dorn will replace the WASL with a simpler, fairer test and will fight for better school funding.

But the Seattle Times doesn't think that promise should mean anything.

Dorn campaigned on undoing the WASL.  But now that he has the office, he should broaden his vision and priorities beyond a single test.

As much as Dorn campaigned to jettison the WASL, in truth he cannot.  Only the Legislature can make substantial changes to the WASL, including replacing it with another test.
. . .
Most students are passing the WASL.  Battling to scrap it will have Dorn tilting at windmills when he will be most needed fending off education budget cuts and unworkable federal mandates.

Apparently, the Seattle Times agrees with Nancy Pelosi; the voters are dolts, who didn't know what they were doing when they elected Dorn.

Although Dorn may not be able to replace the WASL on his own, he can certainly work with the legislature to replace it — as he promised to do.

The Seattle Times should show more respect for the decisions of the voters and less respect for our mediocre education status quo.

Cross posted at Jim Miller on Politics.

(Full disclosure:  I did not vote for either Dorn or Bergeson.  Though Dorn sounded reasonable on most issues, he was backed by two organizations with reactionary, unscientific views on public education, the Washington Education Association and the state's Democratic party.

I am strongly in favor of standardized tests, both to guide individual learning, and to judge the effectiveness of schools.  But I doubt that the WASL is the test that we need in this state, though I would certainly be willing to look at more evidence — on either side.)

Posted by Jim Miller at November 10, 2008 12:32 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Washington State's educational system is a disaster, but I do agree with the Seattle Times when that newspaper (in Jim Miller's opinion) shows little respect for voters........recalling that those same voters just re-elected the most corrupt and incompetent governor in state history.

Posted by: Saltherring on November 10, 2008 12:53 PM
2. Buckup there, Salty. The wife and I both thought the election results stunk. However, the people, especially the young, naiive and idealistic ones, need to see what the other side is all about. It really has been since the 70s since we have had a real bad stretch (aka the Carter Administraiton).

Let's just sit back, educate when we can and be ready to pick up the pieces when all heck breaks out.

My radical penpals are again proud to be an American- the first time since before Reagan destroyed whatever it was they were proud of.

Jim, I did have a chat with my brother, the math teacher. He said he felt he didn't need to tell my why vote for Dorn because it was obvious. I told him I didn't think so and if it had WEA behind it, I was more likely to go the other way. Anyways, he is expecting big things as a teacher.

With your topic, I thought it was going to be about how the California people are going to overturn the Prop 8 initiative. That includes "conservative" Ahhnold.

With your story, this is another example of how the one side has blinders on and have become blinded already.

Posted by: swatter on November 10, 2008 01:04 PM
3. So we got rid of one superintendent who favored a standardized tests and more school funding and have replaced her with a new one that favors a different standardized tests and more school funding.

Wow. Good times ahead.

I wonder if by not voting for either of these people did I somehow support standardized testing and more school funding?

Posted by: Lysander on November 10, 2008 01:11 PM
4. For Lysander and others a reminder...

This is a cultural or world view conflict that is like war, divorce, and any of a number of other forms of human conflict. The only possible outcomes of many are either negative or even more negative, and with no "winners", per se.

In this case, it's more a matter of re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. There are too many false assumptions or parochial views from the candidates and the world view they represent to have any hope of a happy outcome. Or even an "OK" outcome.

Another way of looking at it: according to the WEA, I am qualified to teach at a CC, but not to instruct my own children. And for all intents and purposes, they are the ones in charge of the instruction for the next generation.

IMHO, pathetic and bordering on criminal.

Posted by: scott158 on November 10, 2008 01:31 PM
5. Scott:
I agree that they are essentially asking us to rearrange the chairs on the titanic.

I propose whenever asked to do that that we all refuse. Voting for them only encourages them!

Posted by: Lysander on November 10, 2008 02:16 PM
6. My child will be home schooled while I chuckle at those who willingly put their children through the public school system, and mourn for those who have no choice.

Posted by: Andrew Brown on November 10, 2008 02:48 PM
7. Well, bravo to you chucklehead. Maybe some of us don't have the time to do the home schooling. Maybe some of us families have to work 8-10 hours a day to make ends meet.

Posted by: swatter on November 10, 2008 03:12 PM
8. Get rid of the OSPI position. It's clear from all the info presented they don't do anything really useful anyway.

Posted by: Daisy on November 10, 2008 03:27 PM
9. They are right. Voters are dolts. You only need to look at the Governors office to see that.

As for the WASL, you can bet Dorn won on that platform. It is universally hated by parents, students and teachers. Only those in Government seem to like it.

The ONLY way it will get scrapped is by having an SPI that will push for that to happen. Dorn has promised to do just that.

When he comes up with a viable plan we need to support him by letting our respective legislators know we support it.

Posted by: Vince on November 10, 2008 03:53 PM
10. Okay, I voted for Randy Dorn based on this:

"The incumbent's 12-year legacy leaves half of our 10th graders failing a math test that is at an 8th grade level. Her policies have widened the gap in math education, hurting minority, low-income, and ELL students the most. It is time to stop making excuses for this failure and take a new course. A decade of over-emphasis on WASL-aligned inquiry-based math, which promotes writing about math at the expense of mastering basic skills, has resulted in a generation of math illiterate students who are unable to make change, let alone succeed in a college career in engineering or computer science. I promise to ensure that math competency returns to the classroom. "

If this is the only thing that he does, it's good enough for me. If he fails to do this, the Earth won't be big enough for the both of us.

Posted by: Paula on November 10, 2008 03:59 PM
11. You think things are bad in Seattle, try Monroe. The students here cannot pass any WASL and have to take remedial training in math and english in order to go to TECHNICAL SCHOOLS.
We are now DUMBED DOWN, INDOCTRINATED, LINED UP AND READY FOR THE MASSIVE DICTATORSHIP OF THE LEFT.

Posted by: Bob Clark on November 10, 2008 05:03 PM
12. Bob Clark, we actually live in the Monroe school district but our daughter attends Northshore Schools on a waiver. It's worked for us, the downside is that I haven't been able to have a "real" job because I have to be available to drive to and from school every day. I would highly recommend it to any family that can work out the logistics, though. Northshore's curriculum is still, in many ways, crap but it is a relatively high achieving group of students and families with high expectations.

Posted by: Paula on November 10, 2008 05:12 PM
13. Lysander, I'm curious, do you actually vote for any candidates? Or do you only vote for those who vaguely promise to "cut spending?" I remember you saying you wouldn't vote for Rossi either.

Posted by: argyle sweater on November 10, 2008 05:29 PM
14. Lysander, I'm curious, do you actually vote for any candidates? Or do you only vote for those who vaguely promise to "cut spending?" I remember you saying you wouldn't vote for Rossi either.

Posted by: argyle sweater on November 10, 2008 05:30 PM
15. Why aren't local school boards being held accountable? If Monroe's schools produce poor results - why isn't the board being replaced?

Bob Clark, why don't you run?

Good schools and a good public education is possible in this state - it takes involved parents with strong expectations - just as Paula says.


Posted by: BA on November 10, 2008 05:54 PM
16. Word has it Gregoire will be proposing a Ballot Initiative to massively raise taxes, threatening to cut all the stuff folks like (Parks, recreation, create massive class sizes etc.)...
It's also called EXTORTION!!
Gary Locke on Election Night said he expects the Deficit (LOCKE's WORD!!) to be closer to $4.5 BILLION. Locke's former Budget Director was on King5 UPFRONT and stated the little feel-good things Gregoire has proposed were a drop in the bucket and called them "INSIGNIFICANT". This ain't Republicans talking guys.

The Hiring Freeze, cutting back on Travel, 1% acroos the Board Cut, cutback fuel consumption 5%.............all these combined are insignificant. No one can still figure out how the dinky things Gregoire has proposed to date will "cut the Deficit in Half (Gregoire's words). It doesn't come close to adding up....and no one challenged her bullshit. What she did was scoop up loose change from ALL unused Fund Balances and shift them into the General Fund...a one-time shell-game.

We have serious financial problems in Washington. In addition, the Underfunded State Retirement Fund has grown massively. Will likely be $7 BILLION @ 6/30/08 and has grown even more since then. Huge problem which guys LEFTIST PINEADED KLOWNS say don't worry about because they still have great cash flow and it MAY be a problem SOMEDAY! Sounds like Bush and the National Debt.

Anyway, prepare yourselves for the vote/EXTORTION. Massive Tax Increase...approve it, or prepare to be punished!!!!!!!!!!!!

We MUST stay focused on this Jim, Eric & Pudge.

You see, without more tax dollars, Gregoire is screwed and cannot screw over business.
If this Tax Initiative passes, the Building Industry and other businesses are screwed.
Get it??

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 10, 2008 06:23 PM
17. am I to believe someone from the SEIU? yea

vouchers, vouchers, vouchers
& choices; 3 R's and expulsions; no jacking around; grow some walnuts; performance-based pay;

give people choice & they will do the best for their children--not some entrenched bureaucrat's decisions

proof? anyone remember their history? the Seattle Schools definition of "racism?" now conveniently forgotten; the Seattle computer snafu; time & again; proven incompetence; & really good teachers get sucked along with the tide;

WA history pushed aside in favor of 3 days of Native history and religious chanting songs; no one questions separation of church for this pc drill; all these little endoctrinations add up to kids not knowing squat much less their "multiplication tables";

can you say "remedial classes in college?" and the world laughs at us while spending less per capita

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on November 10, 2008 08:28 PM
18. Warning: somewhat off topic

Spent the weekend in my old Berkeley stomping grounds. And what did I see in this hyper-democratic bastion of the Power of the People?

Intense organization to put mobs on the street in protest of California's successful Proposition 8 (the un-Politically Correct voter initiative restoring marriage to a union between a man and a woman). 52% of California voters voted for it, including some of the most politically correct voters, as determined on a race-based population.

This is "democracy" as practiced by the elite, politically active knowitalls of Berkeley. Any subject may be voted on, but if the hoi polloi come up wrong when the votes are counted, it's time to 'vote' again and again (blocked traffic and busted windows are votes, aren't they?) until the correct outcome is achieved. Then the 'voting' must stop.

Seems like the Seattle Times is in agreement with Berkeley on these tactics.

Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on November 10, 2008 09:11 PM
19. #18: Just more badly-behaving leftwingers, per usual.

Posted by: Michele on November 10, 2008 10:40 PM
20. I think the editorial board at the Seattle Times are all idiots. Why would voters kick out an incumbent if they wanted things to stay the same? I hope Dorn goes in and shakes things up.

I know very little about Dorn, and I can relate to others that stated it was like voting for the 'lesser of two evils'and concerns about his union ties.

I voted for Dorn because he has showed concern about the math fiasco, and he is willing to admit that WASL is not only a failure, but is financially draining and hasn't done anything to improve education.

Bergeson has completely ruined education in this state. There was no way I was going to give her another chance, especially since she thought nothing was wrong, and took credit for things that she had nothing to do with, and in some cases actually fought against.

WASL is not about 'high standards' and does not make a diploma 'meaningful'. We need to re-write all standards that Bergeson had a hand in creating and make sure new standards are based on 'world class', traditional standards and not these fuzzy, new age standards that Bergeson dreamed up. (Read the book 'The Light Shall Set You Free' by OSPI leader, Shirley MCune or anything written by Robert Carkhuff. McCune and Carkhuff were brought in by Bergeson to create the WASL and shape education reform)

People that suggest that the WASL just needs to be tweaked or adjustment made, do not really understand the issues or Bergeson's agenda.

WASL was based on discovery math. The discovery math curricula and WASL were distributed and produced by the same company. The first step in improving math in our state is getting rid of the WASL.

We can still test, we can have even higher standards, we can save a bunch of money, create more class time for teaching, and we can use a test that will not isolate Washington students from national comparisons.

What's not to like about that?


Posted by: Agent 99 on November 10, 2008 11:42 PM
21. I voted for Randy Dorn after having a look at what passed for "standards" in the WASL, and after hearing him endorse more stringent (and frequent) computer aided testing several times per quarter. It seems to me that Ms Bergeson was not so much for standards as the appearance of standards.

The WEA endorsement for Dorn was troubling, but I finally decided that the status quo was unacceptable.

Posted by: bfr on November 11, 2008 09:22 AM
22. Left leaners are for the "appearance of standards" and lots of homework to make you think your children are receiving an actual education while the watered down curriculum ensures that they are not.

I am appalled at the amount of worthless homework that is assigned to my high school aged daughter and her friends. Even in the non-honors/AP classes, it is a crushing load. And yet, I know they are learning less than we did "back in the day."

We actually learned things, such as how to write a coherent sentence, and even string some sentences together in a organized, logical paragraph. We understood grammar and could diagram sentences, meaning that punctuation was logical, rather than seeming random. And that was in elementary school.

In high school, we didn't need a full selection of honors and AP classes, because our regular classes were stringent. Yet I would be hard pressed to recall a week during my high school career where I had four or more hours of homework each night. This is a common occurrence among my daughter and her friends.

The education system is broken and keeping Bergeson on for another term would have been insanity. While Dorn may be a loser, we KNOW that Bergeson is. If Dorn fails, he can be replaced in four years.

Posted by: Paula on November 11, 2008 10:44 AM
23. I voted for Dorn as the only alternative to "touchy feely" mathematics. I have a "Darcy" degree in mathematics (minor really, aka "Darcy Degree") and there is no touchy feely in math. It is or it is not, yes or now, no in-between.

Posted by: pbj on November 11, 2008 11:41 AM
24. Arglye Sweater:

yes I have voted for Republicans in the past. Not as many as I would like because most do not fit the criteria I look for in a candidate but that is no fault of my own. Generally if they say and can show that they would uphold most any applicable GOP party platform I would vote for them. Most can not do so.

Posted by: Lysander on November 11, 2008 12:22 PM
25. We may as well have had Oprah managing state OSPI as Bergeson these past 12 years. Nothing but touchy-feely, 'diversity' bull$hit, where no one excels and no one fails. Just what the limp-wristed, bleeding-heart socialists desire in their brain-dead culture of dim-witted sheeple. Industry, however, desires communication skills (English only), real math/science and critical thinking, rare commodities in public school graduates these days.

And yes, I do know....as I established and administered (2000-2007) a community college-OJT-based apprentice program for a Puget Sound Navy base. It was extremely difficult to find candidates who could qualify for college level courses. Nearly 90% of applicants would have required 90-series (high school) classes upon entry into the program. Needless to say, we hired only the qualified. Are you listening, schools?

Posted by: Saltherring on November 11, 2008 12:31 PM
26. Saltherring - what you are insinuating is that the public schools have utterly failed. However, most people still believe the answer is to double funding. After all, "teachers deserve to make 90K and 9 weeks vacation.."

Posted by: Crusader on November 11, 2008 12:41 PM
27. pbj, that is why I voted for Dorn, too. I have worked in a lot of engineering firms, and I have never heard an engineer asked to defend whether or how he arrived at his numbers or if they are "right." They are assumed to be so. So to spend a lot of time explaining why an answer is right is beyond senseless and takes time away from what is really important. As you say, you are either right or wrong. There's no middle ground.

Crusader, I think that good teachers deserve a good salary but, dang it, it just frosts my buns that a poor teacher makes the same as a good one.

Posted by: Paula on November 11, 2008 01:12 PM
28. Crusader:

Through my personal experience evaluating and interviewing hundreds of Washington State HS graduates, yes, we (taxpayers) are indeed over-fuding an embarassingly ineffective school system.

Community college educators are appalled at the volume of remedial classes they must offer to bring high school graduates up to college-level entry standards.

And remember, taxpayers, you're paying for it.

Posted by: Saltherring on November 11, 2008 01:28 PM
29. Okay, after reading all the thoughtful comments I had to interject not necessarily about the race, but about school districts. I used to be an auditor with Brian Sonntag's office auditing local governments including schools, and the dirty little secret is instead o putting resources into things that parents want like lower class sizes, increase before and afterschool actvities, etc, school districts bump up their administrative staff and their salaries.

For example, the Washougal School District that has 3500 students approximtely pays their Sup't and Ass't Supt over 100,000 a piece. Then their finance person makes $80,000K, their HR Director makes $90K and so on. But, their test scores keep declining. But instead oflooking at putting more resources in the classroom, they look at ways to siphon more money out of the classroom.

I propose two things to fix this. Make an inititive as much as I detest Tim Eyman and his opportunistic manner of making a living, sometimes i is necessary. That the School Superintendents in the State could no make more than 3 times the annual salary of the school district's lowest full-time employee's wages. So, if a Janitor made $40,000 full-time, then the Sup't could not make more than $120,000.

Then require the school districts to spend 65% of all monies received in the classroom on textbooks, supplies, and teach salaries and instructional aides salaries. If they wanted to have more than 35% of the money going to administration, the only way they could do this is by doing a M&O levy by a vote of the people.

The school districts would come back with they could not do this, and if they did, I would say vote the bums out then. This would hoepfully satisfy the fiscal conservatives plus the teachers unions because more money would be spent on teaching the kids and not unneccessary crap.

Just some ideas.

Posted by: auditor dude on November 11, 2008 03:20 PM
30. Auditor Dude, I don't think that your "secret" is much of a surprise.

Your idea about capping the Supt's salaries at 3 times the salary of the lowest full time employee is interesting. I wonder if an unintended consequence of that would be the school districts replacing low paid, full-time employees with low paid part-time employees, who don't get benefits, either. That would be a double win for the administration.

Of course, if the system ran on logic, the school board would hold the administrators accountable and if they didn't, then the voters would hold the school board accountable. Unfortunately, I don't think that many people are paying attention. It makes me sad and it will only get worse.

Posted by: Paula on November 11, 2008 05:02 PM
31. I love reading the right wingnut comments on here. You guys don't even know why you lost big nationally and in Washington. You perpetuate the same stupid garbage that made you lost. thank goodness the right weing is so devoid of ideas. Mr. cynical (idiot) is typical of the right wing scare morons.

You "heard" there was going to be a tax increase? Where are your sources? Can you cite ANYTHING?

Just the usual blather from the LOSERS. The voters were inteliigent when you were winning (and Lying) but now the media is against you and the voters are stupid.

Here is a clue losers:

the largest budget deficit in history (Bush)
the worst economy in history (bush)
Unnecessary war (bush)
Lack of regulation in the banking industry (republican philosophy)
Free market sinks the free market

And your lame attempts to blame the democrats - Bush has a functional majority (for 6 years a real majority) and the veto pen - this is HIS mess.
All we got was Abramoff, the K street project, corruption, Foley, Craig, protecting gay congressman, convicted felons like Duke cunningham, Ted Stevens and Bob Ney.

the public is smart - time to throw the bums out - McCain and his lobbyist pals and the pathetically ignorant Palin did not cut it. You guys lost in a rout. Thanks for not even getting the message - you will lose next time too.

Posted by: correctnotright on November 12, 2008 08:20 AM
32. "You guys don't even know why you lost big nationally and in Washington."

Well that is where you are wrong. WE who read and post here do know and what is more WE recognized it long before you did.

We know, and what is more we saw the train wreck coming before it was even on your radar screen.

Conservatives simply will not continue to support known crooks and fourflushers. Democrats will and that is why we knew we were in big trouble years ago.

You cannot appreciate the frustration we felt when we realized that people like Duke Cunningham were also caught up in what politicians do as a matter of course. We know that the "Parties" both know ABOUT and accept corruption and WE alone try to get the "Party" to be proactive. A fool's errand, politicians of both Parties know exactly what EVERYBODY in Oly and DC are up to and "Party people" make it impossible for principled conservatives, who are the majority of rEPUBLICAN VOTERS, to get out in front of it.

This DYNAMIC hits the Republicans hard because they rely on real conservatives, whereas leftist/liberals are by nature accepting of crooks and will not only return them to office - they actively protect and support them. Corruption is a resume enhancement to the Democrat base, it is death to the conservative base that support the Republican Party.

It revolves around a conflict of visions -the reason that we are set back on a regular basis. Our weakness today is the Democrat's strength. We will now be able to purge our Party of criminals and crypto-Democrats and then rebuild with principled people running for office and in a few years we will field candidates like we did in '94.

For a short time the next time we take control we will have a governing majority that represents a "mandate." It won't last though. We will once again be taken over by political jerkoffs who overlook the dirtbags that infect every political Party.

Look genesis, you didn't kick the Republican Party to the floor - we did. Your Party's voters would do just fine having the corruption we repudiated remain so long as you retained power. Your Party soldiers on, BUT without the peaks we have, because you accept and reward corruption.

Our Party is rebuilt, from the base, and then our base loses control to Oly and DC insiders and we crash. Look at a two decade graphical representation of Party strength in DC, not so much in WA because WA is basically a communist stronghold.

The Democrats never have more than a bare majority in DC. We do have absolute control when our base is engaged and that is when we get into trouble because then we loose control to Party people who do not understand us and proactively keep our politicians clean as a whistle and rat them out. The problem lies in our leadership at the National Party level, not our values or our message.

Look politicians do not become corrupt by the system, the corrupt ones were corrupt when they got the power. It is covered up on our side by the Republican leadership, which is as inherently corrupt as your Party leadership. The difference is that our base will not accept what our leadership will and the run of the mill Democrat voter will.

I don't know why we seem powerless to recognize our Party leadership as total filth and fix the problem. I just accept that for what it is. They have no reason, based upon history, to continue to believe that conservative voters and leftist voters will operate in the same way, but they do.

You really didn't do sh*t, we did. WE, the conservative base, was the ones who were disgusted and we turned our back on the Republican Party and that is why you "won". Actually you didn't win, in my assessment, because while our filth has been, and will be, shown the door - you continue to be represented by total reprobates.

This election is our silver cloud.

Posted by: JDH on November 12, 2008 08:23 PM
Post a comment
Name:


Email Address:


URL:


Comments:


Remember info?