Prop. 1 - Pike Place Market Levy. NO!
If the Pike Place Market wants to remodel itself, fine. Just pass the costs on to its tenants who can pass the cost on to its customers. If the customers are willing to pay inflated prices that are needed to maintain the market, fine. If not, then the land should be put to more efficient use.
Prop. 2 - Seattle Parks Levy. NO!
Enough already. Seattle has enough parks. This is not about serving the public, this is about an insatiable government agency begging for more.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at October 30, 2008 11:04 PM | Email ThisLevies: Cops, Fire, Libraries, Schools, Parks.
Never open for a public vote: Sets of million dollar urinals, drunk house, etc.
Posted by: Al on October 31, 2008 12:47 AMWhat a sad view you have of Seattle. The Pike Place Market is the city's greatest icon, a focal point for downtown life and a magnet for people from other parts of the city, the state, and beyond. Large parts of it are public spaces. And you'd like to see it turned into what, a Safeway? Should we pave over the economically inefficient Green Lake, too?
Posted by: Bruce on October 31, 2008 09:01 AMDo you want to identify yourself as a member of the Pike Place Market Preservation and Development Authority council?
Sorry, I don't share your nostalgic view of the Pike Place Market. As long as I don't have to pay for it, it can be what it wants. And yes, I'd rather it be turned into a Safeway than have to pay for it every year in property taxes.
Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on October 31, 2008 09:53 AMMore wasted tax dollars?
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on October 31, 2008 10:06 AMWhy do you assume I have a "nostalgic view" of the market? I love it for its vibrancy, its architecture, its funkiness, the people, and yes, the stuff I can buy. Having lived here only 21 years, I don't think I can have nostalgia.
And thank you for directly answering my question about your view of the market. I should point out that you're not being asked to "pay for it every year in property taxes", just for the 6-year duration of the levy (the last one was 30 years ago). I'm sorry you don't feel it's worth even that.
Posted by: Bruce on October 31, 2008 10:16 AMFund capital improvements such as park purchases and major improvements through levies, new elevators and bathrooms at teh market through levies.
But, re-roofing a building, maintaining a ballfield, funding medics when the balance of the department budget is in the general fund - shouldn't be funded with levies.
Posted by: BA on October 31, 2008 10:49 AMPlease, please tell me this is a joke.
As for the market, I don't have a vote, but I would vote no too. I was one of the few who wanted the Sonics to stay, and no one wanted to pay for that, so why would I want to pay for the market, or the zoo, or Benaroya, or whatever other leisure activity you like?
Posted by: Palouse on October 31, 2008 10:53 AMThe voters aren't buying what you're selling, Stefan. That should be clear even to you. Nobody likes your negativity except for your ever-dwindling little cult. It makes me happy indeed that you are so ineffective and so impotent on the local political scene.
Posted by: ivan on October 31, 2008 11:24 AM
I don't think I want to be an out-of-town guest of Stefan's showing me what he thinks are the local sights.
Posted by: BA on October 31, 2008 11:32 AMThose that feel like Bruce can do what I'm sure Bruce does: Donate every dime he earns to keep the place up and running.
Posted by: Hinton on October 31, 2008 11:38 AMWhere's the line drawn? (real question - not rhetorical).
Posted by: BA on October 31, 2008 11:49 AMSo what happens if 6 years is not enough. Then what 6 more?
Medic one should have never been a levy. General funds should support it. Just like the cops it's a needed fund.
Ivan...
Grow-up
YOU are the few! Most Seattleites love the Pike Place Market and will gladly pay the freight to keep it running. As long as people like you continue to speak for Republicans and conservatives, our success is assured.
Posted by: ivan on October 31, 2008 12:03 PMBruce do you have that as part of your charter to create? There are plenty of folks that would donate to that foundation and then we'd be set. I can see Seattle paying money for some infrastructure (better streets and lighting for those streets) but the Market can and should be paying more for this.
Posted by: Dengle on October 31, 2008 12:56 PMThere is also a charitable organization called the Market Foundation that raises funds for the market's social services, including its low-income housing, medical clinic, senior center, food bank, child care/preschool, farmer programs, and more.
Posted by: Bruce on October 31, 2008 01:46 PMWOW, want to bet when they do start the work it will jump to 90 or 100 million.
Nuts. If Seattle has let Pike Place get this bad, what in the heck makes you think after this much has been spent they will maintain after that.
I don't live in Seattle, but no-way would I vote for this.
-Between 1906 and 1907, the cost of onions increased tenfold. Outraged citizens, fed up with paying price-gouging middlemen too much for their produce, found a hero in Seattle City Councilman Thomas Revelle. Revelle proposed a public street market that would connect farmers directly with consumers.
http://www.pikeplacemarket.org/frameset.asp?flash=false
-On November 2, 1971, Seattle voters approve Initiative No.1, which establishes a large historic district to "preserve, improve and restore the Pike Place Market" and "prohibit alterations, demolition, or construction" without approval of a 12 member commission. The measure passes by a vote of 76,369 to 53,264, a three-to-two majority, and ends an eight-year controversy over the fate of the Market.
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=1426
On November 2, 1971, Seattle voters approve Initiative No.1, which establishes a large historic district to "preserve, improve and restore the Pike Place Market" and "prohibit alterations, demolition, or construction" without approval of a 12 member commission.
Change Prop 1 to toss the entire current board and you might start getting some support. It's apparent the current board hasn't done their job, if there's only a $6 million fun for a $68 million backlog...
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on October 31, 2008 03:59 PMThat said, you're moronic observations concerning the Pike Place Market are just that: moronic. The market doesn't benefit anyone but those who work there and rent/own shops there. Those who utilize that facility should pay for that facility.
Supporting the PPM with taxpayer millions makes no more sense than supporting the Sonics with taxpayer millions; in short (and I'm hoping I'm using words small enough for you, Comrade) no sense at all.
In the midst of an economic downturn, paying for fluff may be the kind of idiocy that appeals to you, Comrade, but I'm thinking that people are more concerned about having adequate police, fire, roads and education.
I know those things have no place in your stilted world, Comrade, but for once, can you stick with the proletariat and ignore your neo-communist masters?
And BA, I can't speak for "sports facilities in small Alaskan towns" and for the record, I have been staunchly opposed to taxpayer subsidized professional and college sports facilities for years... in fact, that is why I continue to oppose Rossi.
Since you asked.
Posted by: Hinton on October 31, 2008 04:13 PMGiven the recent nationalization of banks, one would doubt that government would take leave. Guess PPM and NPR will continue to suck the public pig.
I get that YOU don't favor this levy. But what part of "polling shows this levy passing by a wide margin" do you fail to understand?
We'll see who's delusional on election night when the results for this levy come in. Hint: It isn't me.
Posted by: ivan on October 31, 2008 04:58 PMIn short... so what?
If "polling" determined the issue, we wouldn't need elections, and Bradley would have become governor of California.
So, get over it... and get over yourself, if that's remotely possible.
Posted by: Hinton on October 31, 2008 06:26 PMWell, let me explain it for our rural and suburban members of the board.
People love cities for their cultural institutions, and their vibrancy. They prefer shopping at places like Nordstroms, vs Walmart. They enjoy interesting architecture, vs endless strip malls. They like walking, vs driving everywhere.
In short, they don't move to cities to enjoy the mindless, boring, bland institutions found in the suburbs.
Unless of course, they have kids, and have no other choice because the schools in the city SUCK . Damn, I miss Seattle.
Posted by: Proteus on November 1, 2008 06:15 AMNice strawman. I never made the argument for suburbs over cities. Quite the opposite. I was for making improvements to the existing facility in the city in order to keep an NBA team here because I enjoyed going to some games occasionally. The tax was on hotels and restaurants and car rentals, something I usually pay when I travel as well because other cities like having tourists pay for their stadia. I don't pay for much of these taxes in my place of residence.
As a resident of MLKC, I pay property taxes for parks, libraries,zoos, whatever all over the county. In other words, I subsidize other's leisure. This was the same thing being proposed for the Key improvements. There was wide opposition to that subsidy, so the team left. Fine. I thought having an NBA team made this a better region to live in. In the same way you think the market does that. Both were leisure subsidies. There is no "need" for a market in the same way there is no need for a better arena. People didn't want to subsidize my sports leisure activity, I don't want to subsidize their market leisure activity. That's why I would vote no.
Posted by: Palouse on November 1, 2008 10:44 AMThe old Market was a blast - the new Market is a tourist trap - so fund it for what it is
From flowers to food - there are a dozen great outlets around town that beat the market
No parking, crowded, expensive - very expensive food
Needs to pay its bills - all the do gooders in this city ride on the backs of other people and their money - getting tiresome beyond belief.
No, I don't pay 50.00 for dinner at the chic downtown places, some in the market.
Ivan lives in the dream scape of the new age Seattle - pay pay and pay.
I used to put aside 50.00 per month for taxes on my little shack house. Now, it is almost 200.00 per month and I am a year behind. Fuck you Ivan.
Posted by: 87 YEARS IN SEA on November 2, 2008 04:50 AM