On Thursday, Stephen Colbert had a clip of Oliver Stone's new movie "W" about George W. Bush, showing Bush being asked his biggest mistake at a White House press conference in April 2004 (see the clip on that page at about 18:50).
In the clip, Bush (played by Josh Brolin) nervously answers, "I wish you would have given me this written question beforehand, so I could prepare for it." Then he composes himself and says, with a degree of anguish, "John, I'm sure historians will look back and say, gosh, he could have done it better this way, or that way." He looks around the room, as if pleading for help to save him from the spot he's in.
Many of the words are basically accurate, but in real life (see the clip around 51:00), they were delivered completely differently. The first sentence was given as a confident joke, with no nervousness of any kind (and Stone neatly swapped in the word "prepare" for "plan," implying Bush has to prepare his answers).
And the real-life delivery of the second sentence showed no anguish at all, just some trouble coming up with an answer to the question on the spot.
This is, of course, typical Stone. He doesn't care about truth. He cares about trying to make people believe the inventions that he prefers, rather than any facts that, you know, happened. He has his vision of who Bush "is," and he will do his best to convince you it's true by taking the facts and turning them inside out, hoping you won't notice. His technique, like most propaganda, requires the viewer to be ignorant, and so this tells you how little he thinks of his audience.
This is punctuated by Stone's butchering of Bush's real-life statement, "I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes," into "I don't want to sound like I haven't made no mistakes." A subtle change that serves the purpose of furthering Stone's "truth" of who Bush "is."
Stone isn't worth bothering with most of the time, but especially when he's pretending to portray real people. I suppose the movie might be good if you like fiction, and can treat it as such while watching it. But most people can't do that, and it certainly wasn't made to be treated as such.
The saddest thing to me is that Stone's movie exemplifies the very nature of "truthiness," and Colbert won't call him on it, because he's in the tank for Obama too.
Cross-posted on <pudge/*>.
Posted by pudge at October 10, 2008 11:59 PM | Email ThisHeavens to betsy, as Rumsfeld might say.
Next thing you know, you'll tell me that King Lear, Scarlett O'Hara, and Harry Potter aren't real people at all.
Posted by: Laszlo Toth, Jr on October 11, 2008 12:17 AMI won't be seeing Stone's dorky movie, either.
Posted by: Michele on October 11, 2008 12:21 AMLaszlo: yes, he edits events for effect, as I described: to try to convince the viewers of something that isn't true.
Posted by: pudge on October 11, 2008 12:39 AMGeorge W. Bush is going to go down in history as the worst president ever and he is taking the Republican party down with him. The Christian Taliban ... the racist, xenophobic, fundamentalist warmongers are losing their grip upon the government and it shall never be regained.
Soundpolitics is a blog written by idiots for idiots. Of the idiots at SoundPolitics, pudge is the very worst. Never in my life have I met such a delusional fundamnetalist ... he must pray that God bless saint George W. Bush every night.
If I were you, I would stop worrying about the election (Barack Obama is going to become president, get used to it!) and instead start to worry about how you are going to survive after George W. Bush's debt-financed consumer-driven economy has collapsed.
It is collapsing right now. Capitalism is already dead. All your future dreams are lost.
Posted by: David Mathews on October 11, 2008 04:33 AMThe chart is here
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/images/editimg/issues101308.gif
The full article is here
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=308530236252361
America's Second Wake-Up Call!
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, October 10, 2008 4:20 PM PT
Thinly-veiled and poorly executed satire-as-character-assassination versus thinly-veiled and poorly executed biopic-as-character-assassination. Both are partisan, but you only have the stones to denounce one. I'm wondering why...
Posted by: demo kid on October 11, 2008 06:56 AMGosh Dave, that’s pretty harsh. I’d be more inclined to say that Sound Politics is written by far right ideologues for consumption by some pretty dim bulbs. And that Pudge is perhaps one of the dimmest.
I hope you are right about Obama becoming the next president. I’m not completely confident of that yet. But from the polls at this point, I’m guardedly optimistic.
I know you are right about the economy. It has been teetering on the brink of collapse for years now. I don’t blame it all on George Bush, just about 75% of it. The rest of the credit gets evenly distributed between both sides of congress and the senate.
Whoever is the next president is going to have their hands full. And most of the rest of us on the planet are in for some difficult times. “It’s a hard rain that’s gonna fall”.
If you are so inclined (I’m not), pray for our troops, just like the little bumper stickers say. And pray for our nation too. And while you are at, pray for all nations and all humanity. We’re all in this together and we’re all going to need whatever help we can get.
When your man, Obama, gets into office, will your outlook on life turn more positive? When he squelches free speech through the fairness doctrine, will your speech not be as hateful as it is now? If this blog is so idiotic, why do you waste your precious time reading it and posting? You will not change anyones' mind, to us
you sound like a raving lunatic.
How many jobs have you created? Do you pay any income tax? Do you own any property? Do you have a family? How many people have you directly helped with a hand up? I'm curious because I can't believe any serious person could be so arrogant and hate-filled as you.
He may be partisan, but he's no idiot.
Posted by: demo kid on October 11, 2008 06:59 AMI also got a laugh at protests that Stone wasn't telling the whole truth.
Stone makes movies. It isn't a documentary. It is entertainment.
George W. Bush made wars and ransacked the economy promoting real fictions.
Which is why people like Pat Buchanan think the GOP brand has tanked to a place where it is on the same shelf as Chinese baby formula.
Posted by: jan on October 11, 2008 07:37 AMI see you brought all the WACKOS out with this one.
"Great Job" (-:
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on October 11, 2008 08:38 AMLike I've got nothing better to do than wade through the same bullshit from the same leftist fools.
Posted by: jimg on October 11, 2008 09:04 AMAn excellent admission David. Kudos for your introspection.
Posted by: Al on October 11, 2008 09:06 AMBiopics are taken as something close to fact. Parodies are not.
Why you don't get this, I don't understand.
If this were parody I'd shrug it off as simply stupid, like that dumb show on Comedy Central, "Lil' Bush," which was excruciatingly dumb. But it was a joke, so whatever. This isn't a joke, it's supposed to represent truth, as Stone sees it. But it doesn't represent any truth.
We GET that you're an idiot. After all, every one of your pathetic posts confirms it. But that you would call yourself that?
I guess no one is into self-flagellation as much as the brain damaged leftists that infest us here.
Posted by: Hinton on October 11, 2008 09:23 AMFor YOU to drool ANYTHING about: "Thinly-veiled and poorly executed satire-as-character-assassination" given the crap you've spewed, and the scum you support?
God, how it must suck to be you.
Posted by: Hinton on October 11, 2008 09:26 AMOdd that someone who qualifies as both could recognize THAT truth while ignoring so many others.
Posted by: Hinton on October 11, 2008 09:34 AMOur courts long ago abandoned truth when they allowed lies to be propagated against "public figures" without legal recourse.
The right has never figured out how to successfully take advantage of this legal loophole in American libel laws. Until they do they remain at a disadvantage.
Posted by: deadwood on October 11, 2008 09:40 AMAmerican Carol is a parody and it does not state "based on facts."
although, It is more factual than W.
Michael Moore is a fat lard who has spewed anti-American sentiments left and right in every country imaginable. The Satirical Michael Malone is closer to the real michael Moore than the character George Bush is based on the actual George Bush.
However, that being said the movie was not a character assassination on Moore. It was actual about the liberal mindset thinking we should hug the terrorists who attack us, and sign peices of paper to make them like us because we want to be popular... when the real fact is, no one wants war, but we wouldn't be America if we didn't fight the British, the slaves wouldn't have been freed, We'd be a communist regime under Hitler if we didn't join the fight... and we'd be in a terrorist state if we didn't stand up to terrorists.
THAT was the point of the movie.
the point of THIS movie is soley to humiliate Bush.
Posted by: Mayu on October 11, 2008 10:20 AMJust my two cents.
Posted by: tc on October 11, 2008 10:20 AMAmerican Carol is a parody and it does not state "based on facts."
although, It is more factual than W.
Michael Moore is a fat lard who has spewed anti-American sentiments left and right in every country imaginable. The Satirical Michael Malone is closer to the real michael Moore than the character George Bush is based on the actual George Bush.
However, that being said the movie was not a character assassination on Moore. It was actual about the liberal mindset thinking we should hug the terrorists who attack us, and sign peices of paper to make them like us because we want to be popular... when the real fact is, no one wants war, but we wouldn't be America if we didn't fight the British, the slaves wouldn't have been freed, We'd be a communist regime under Hitler if we didn't join the fight... and we'd be in a terrorist state if we didn't stand up to terrorists.
THAT was the point of the movie.
the point of THIS movie is soley to humiliate Bush.
Posted by: Mayu on October 11, 2008 10:22 AMDon't be an idiot.
Posted by: pudge on October 11, 2008 10:38 AMHey witless, you taking time out from sniffing urinal cakes down at the union hall to slum at SP? Thanks for providing the "burnt-out bulb" perspective...
Posted by: Alphabet Soup on October 11, 2008 10:49 AMI can't believe I have to even say this to another human being.
American Carol is a comedy.
W is another one of Stone's attempts to revise history and call it fact.
Posted by: TheSenator2012 on October 11, 2008 12:30 PMI'll let the pure ignorance of that statement sink in to the people that actually know history.
Meanwhile, I'll leave the repeating to you, thank you very much.
@28 (and others):
American Carol is a comedy.
No, but that's a very funny line! :) Very needed, too... Zucker hasn't been funny since the 1980s.
Seriously, though, I'm fascinated that you can cheer on a complete misrepresentation of the facts in one case, while cheering it on in another. How is that not hypocrisy?
Posted by: demo kid on October 11, 2008 01:52 PMW was a lame attempt to rewrite history by an ideological producer who still suffers the psychological ill-affects for dropping too much acid in the 60's.
Posted by: KS on October 11, 2008 01:56 PMThis has already been explained to you, using small words. If you don't get it by now, you won't.
Of course you do. One fits his myopic, 'my guys win at all costs' warped view and one doesn't.
Duh.
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskold on October 11, 2008 02:03 PMHmmm... I think that my point is that for liberals it's one way, for conservatives it's another. But perhaps it's a little too much for you folks to actually seriously think about these things....
Posted by: demo kid on October 11, 2008 03:02 PMThis guy would not know the truth if it ran him over.
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on October 11, 2008 03:16 PMHmmm... I think that my point is that for liberals it's one way, for conservatives it's another.
It's a dumb point. I don't whine about how SNL and TDS "misrepresent" the facts. I think it's lame that they are one-sided, and even worse that many dummies take what they say as fact, but of COURSE they "misrepresent" the facts: they are parody.
And on the other hand, I criticized some of the factual and tonal errors made by that "Path to 9/11" film, which was "based on true events" as well.
So no, I am being consistent here.
You asked some questions. I will answer:
When your man, Obama, gets into office, will your outlook on life turn more positive?
My outlook on life is already positive. I am in favor of capitalism dying and our civilization collapsing. Humankind has done enough damage already to exterminate the species, so we might as well stop destroying and polluting the Eartn now.
When he squelches free speech through the fairness doctrine, will your speech not be as hateful as it is now?
Barack Obama is going to have more important things to deal with rather than the Fairness Doctrine and the lingering minority of hate-filled conservative bigots on the airwaves.
If this blog is so idiotic, why do you waste your precious time reading it and posting? You will not change anyones' mind, to us
you sound like a raving lunatic.
SoundPolitics is a blog for raving lunatics. I keep up with it because it is good to pay attention to all sides of a dispute. As for changing anyone's mind, I am not in the business of changing anyone's mind.
How many jobs have you created?
None. Nor would I create any jobs even if I could.
Do you pay any income tax?
Yes.
Do you own any property?
I own no property whatsoever.
Do you have a family?
I would never bring a child in this world. Such is an extremely irresponsible act considering human overpopulation and the horrendous fate which shall fall upon humankind in the 21st century.
How many people have you directly helped with a hand up?
I love all people but I would never encourage anyone to either seek a hand up or engage in this now-dead economic system. When economics is at war with ecologics the ultimate loser is humankind.
I'm curious because I can't believe any serious person could be so arrogant and hate-filled as you.
I am not hate filled. I am merely honest. The truth is a terrible thing and not something most people prefer to hear, especially those people who are so deluded as to believe the many lies of capitalism and consumerism.
Posted by: David Mathews on October 11, 2008 03:57 PMHave you ever eaten human flesh?
Posted by: mark on October 11, 2008 04:11 PMThis whole post is dumb. This isn't a documentary, and it's written by Oliver Stone. Anyone with a brain knows that he is a liberal. The left will love it, the right will hate it, and it will be just as biased as An American Carol.
Straw man: no one implied otherwise.
and it's written by Oliver Stone. Anyone with a brain knows that he is a liberal.
Question-begging: his whole assumption is that people (whether they have a brain or not) will believe that what he puts on screen is true, even though it's not.
The left will love it, the right will hate it, and it will be just as biased as An American Carol.
The latter is a parody, the former is not, and it's a shame that anyone will love something that is "based on a true story," but is pure fiction.
Many people on your side correctly pointed out errors in "Path to 9/11" -- which also was not a documentary -- although they far overstated the case, since it was mostly quite accurate, but on a few points dropped the ball IMO.
Truth is important in movies like this, because people will believe it. Stone is lying about Bush to convince people to vote for Obama. That's what's happening here. Pointing out the fact that he's lying is worthwhile. Truth matters.
If you don't care, fine. But to attack me for pointing out that Stone is lying is really stupid.
@41 - You are being too simplistic. People on the left who understand humor and realize that Michael Moore is not helping their cause will get some laughs out of American Carol. I'd see W on DVD because I don't believe that Bush helped the Republican's cause.
Posted by: KS on October 11, 2008 04:38 PMAmerican Carol does not resort to half-truths. It uses satire, comedy and no attempt at a documentary - therein lies the basic difference.
Posted by: KS on October 11, 2008 04:45 PMOn the other hand, no I don't. I'm pretty sure there won't be any such attempt.
Posted by: russell garrard on October 11, 2008 05:47 PM1. Since people go to movies for escape, political movies will generally not be successful.
2. People who just say those who disagree with them are stupid will not likely win the other person over to their point of view.
3. Capitalist societies where free markets set the price for goods produce a greater standard of living than Communist/Socialist economies where the government controls prices.
4. Capitalism is not dead in our 12 trillion dollar annual GDP economy.
5. Demo Kid, Unkle Witz and David Matthews will not agree with me and will say I'm "Stupid, Dim or an idiot."
6. They will not convince me.
Posted by: KW64 on October 11, 2008 09:43 PMWhich, of course, begs the obvious question: Why are YOU readaing it? And don't tell me it's the same reason you look at traffic accidents.
I don't even bother reading lunatic fringe blogs like DailyKos, Puffington Host. I prefer to be smarter after reading something, not dumber.
Posted by: Dave on October 11, 2008 10:09 PMI read this site for similar reasons to why I enjoy Mystery Science Theater 3000. There's a special level of comedy involved in people who have absolutely no idea how stupid they are.
I don't even bother reading lunatic fringe blogs like DailyKos, Puffington Host. I prefer to be smarter after reading something, not dumber.
It shouldn't really matter what you read then, since it's clearly impossible for you to be any dumber.
Posted by: thehim on October 11, 2008 10:58 PMAnd no, it's pure fiction. It's a lie.
Posted by: pudge on October 12, 2008 06:49 AM++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes, yes, yes and (stupid) people like you come here to post even dummer remarks.
Insults from you about other people for who you do not know, shows your own lack of ED.
But please, keep posting!
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on October 12, 2008 08:12 AMThe left is so funny. No matter how hard they try to paint conservatives as ignorant rednecks, and zealous holy rollers, it backfires on them. Real people continue on with their busy lives, and family activities, without batting an eye to angry liberals who think they are more intelligent than us. That really angers the libs. They need attention, and hate that they can't control us. They hate that we're happy, that we love our family, proud of our country, respect our military, and that we are completely unapologetic for it.
Posted by: chardonnay on October 12, 2008 09:59 AMProof is required for all these statements, meaning that they are not "self-evident".
1. Since people go to movies for escape, political movies will generally not be successful.
There are some... most of the modern Michael Moore movies are, as well as An Inconvenient Truth. But on the whole, you're right... documentaries are niche markets, best suited for art house theaters, DVD releases and TV. They don't make for strong theatrical releases.
3. Capitalist societies where free markets set the price for goods produce a greater standard of living than Communist/Socialist economies where the government controls prices.
By which standard?
4. Capitalism is not dead in our 12 trillion dollar annual GDP economy.
Not completely dead, but there's a difference between laissez-faire free market capitalism and stronger regulation of markets in a capitalist economy.
5. Demo Kid, Unkle Witz and David Matthews will not agree with me and will say I'm "Stupid, Dim or an idiot."
Not necessarily, but I do think that you are a little dim. :)
Posted by: demo kid on October 12, 2008 11:40 AMOn this matter, I must express my absolutely agreement with Pudge's evaluation of himself. He is a stupid dim idiot.
I hope that pudge is pleased that I can agree with him about some things!
Posted by: David Mathews on October 12, 2008 12:46 PMFalse.
no film is "truer" than another
False.