You go girl!
Posted by warrenpeterson at October 02, 2008 07:43 PM | Email ThisThere were no winners in this debate, and certainly none in the American people with candidates like this.
I am a Republican - the party of personal responsibility. I do not blame predatory lenders for idiots that couldn't be bothered to read their own loan documents before they signed.
I am a Republican - the party of the free market, not the party of excessive regulation.
I am a Republican - the party of honesty and integrity, not the party of avoiding direct questions every chance I get.
She is none of these things.
Posted by: Andrew Brown on October 2, 2008 08:18 PMOr when Biden pointed out that Obamas exit plan was the same as Bushes.
Posted by: Lysander on October 2, 2008 08:19 PMI damn near cried when I heard Kirby Wilbur say that the Chicago Trib was reporting that Palin was the VP choice on an early Friday morning several weeks ago. But I am increasingly concerned that Palin is more of a McCain/W Bush Republican than a Reagan Republican. She repeatedly blamed greed and corruption of Wall Street, while not mentioning the role of D.C. in the mortgage crisis. If McCain were to win, I'd hate to think that we end up with yet another 'big-goverment conservative' as heir-apparent in 2012.
Posted by: russell garrard on October 2, 2008 08:20 PMWhat is "fairness" to liberals" Is fairness cutting a check to that bottom 3rd with redistribution from the top 5%? Is that American patriotism?
I too would have liked Palin to hammer Biden on the lie that the financial crisis is Bush's fault. But we've got time for that truth to spread.
Karl Rove just listed 10 factual errors by Biden, and 6 others that are debatable. You don't get credit in a debate for using lies to win a point. If we had a media that would do their job, many of Biden's most "persuasive" arguments would be blown out of the water.
Frank Luntz did an audience survey of independent voters that was split 50-50 before the debate. After the debate the audience overwhelming thought Palin had won. You can trust Fox or you can trust CNN. I trust Fox and Luntz called tonight a game-changer.
Posted by: Reality on October 2, 2008 08:23 PMThis is why the Republican party is in ashes, because we believe what we want to hear instead of reality. Ironic considering your pen name, Reality.
Posted by: Andrew Brown on October 2, 2008 08:26 PM"Yes, there is. Earlier this year, Senator Biden told the world that he doesn't think Barack Obama is ready to be president.
I agree with him."
Posted by: Michele on October 2, 2008 08:32 PMAndrew:
...and Obama/Biden are? At least she's a D.C. outsider and that's progress in my book. :)
John McCain thankfully has been one representing reform. Two years ago, remember, it was John McCain who pushed so hard with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac reform measures. He sounded that warning bell.
People in the Senate with him, his colleagues, didn't want to listen to him and wouldn't go towards that reform that was needed then. I think that the alarm has been heard, though, and there will be that greater oversight, again thanks to John McCain's bipartisan efforts that he was so instrumental in bringing folks together over this past week, even suspending his own campaign to make sure he was putting excessive politics aside and putting the country first.
The McCain campaign also released this ad on it this week.
Posted by: Palouse on October 2, 2008 08:34 PMDid anyone get those written down?
Posted by: Robert on October 2, 2008 08:37 PMShe was plucky, I'll give her that... but she was a disaster.
Posted by: demo kid on October 2, 2008 08:47 PMAmerica is filled with small business that have revenues in excess of $250,000. Obama would nail them, and Biden giving this deceptive answer proves that the Obama/Biden ticket cannot argue against the charge honestly.
Posted by: Reality on October 2, 2008 08:49 PMPlease share the others if you have them!!!
Posted by: Ronda on October 2, 2008 08:54 PM"After the debate the audience overwhelming thought Palin had won. You can trust Fox or you can trust CNN. I trust Fox and Luntz called tonight a game-changer."
You will be very disappointed tomorrow when you find that Luntz is all alone out there.
Palin read her scripted talking points very well and did not foam at the mouth or talk in tongues. Clearly she prepared intensively for this debate, and yes, it showed.
Problem is for you lot that the positions she defended have been rejected already by the American public and are more and more rejected each day as the election approaches.
You're all trying to run away from Bush and say, "Well, he's not on the ticket." That's true only in a narrow, literal sense. This election is a refrendum on eight years of conservative governance. Conservatism is on trial here, and none of you are going to like the verdict.
Posted by: ivan on October 2, 2008 08:57 PMIf she had crushed Biden, you would have posted the same thing.
BillL: moron before the debate, and you are a moron after the debate.
Posted by: Hinton on October 2, 2008 08:58 PMIf she had crushed Biden, you would have posted the same thing.
BillL: moron before the debate, and you are a moron after the debate.
So... anyone here believe the MSM wil;l spend any time pointing out Biden's lies?
Posted by: Hinton on October 2, 2008 09:00 PM1. One of which is the Democrat talking point jibberish that it will take ten years to extract new oil via drilling. The fact is that it will take more like one or two years.
2. He referred to Article 1 of the Constitution as describing the powers of the executive branch. It is in fact a description of the powers of the legislative branch. It is amazing that a VP candidate and veteran Senator would not know this.
3. He claimed that McCain voted the same as obama on troop funding. That is nonsensical jibberish.
4. He said McCain voted same as Obama on budget resolution. Look to March 14 and June 4 - McCain (no) Obama(yes)
5. Biden claimed his "clean coal" remarks were taken out of context...
"Joe Biden Said That He Didn't Support Clean Coal And Said "No Coal Plants Here In America." BIDEN: "We're not supporting 'clean coal.' Guess what. China's building two every week. Two dirty coal plants. And it's polluting the United States. It's causing people to die." ... But guess what. China is gonna burn three hundred years of bad coal unless we figure out how to clean their coal up. Because it's going to ruin your lungs and there's nothing we can do about it. No coal plants here in America. Build them, if they're going to build them over there make 'em clean because they're killing you." (Joe Biden, Remarks, Maumee, OH, 9/17/08)"
6. Palin argued that obama's tax increase would hit small businesses with over $250,000 in REVENUES (true). Biden spun it to say that most small business OWNERS make less than $250,000 per year. [To liberals who are fact challenged, REVENUE and SALARY are two completely different things.]
7. On the tax increase on people making less than 42,000 he said under Obama people would pay no more than they did under Reagan. The top rate under Reagan was 28%. Under Clinton is was 39.5%. Obama wants to raise it to 39.5%.
8. He said, the use of force resolution on Iraq was not a war resolution, an authorization for war. It was....and he voted for it.
Posted by: Robert on October 2, 2008 09:04 PMDon't mess with Biden, you have to remember that under Reagan the top tax rate was 70%. Sure that was right when he took office, inherited from Jimmy Do Good, but heck, Biden was factually correct.
The only way my small business can afford to hire anyone is when I make more than $250K, so count me as one of those that when an Obama/Biden tax hike hits, I'll be increasing that unemployment number.
Posted by: Doug on October 2, 2008 09:09 PM1. McCain voted same way on Budget Resolution this year as Obama.
False. On both votes March 14 and June 14, McCain voted No and Obama voted Yes.
2. Under Obama, taxes will be loser than under Reagan.
False. Top tax bracket under Reagan was 28%. Under Obama would be 39.5%
3. It will take 10 years to get any new oil from new domestic production.
False. Would take a year or two.
4. Use of Force Resolution in Iraq was not a war resolution.
False. Yes it was.
5. McCain voted the same way as Obama in supporting the troops.
False. On final passage of the resolution, McCain voted yes; Obama voted no.
6. The cost of 3 weeks in Iraq costs as much as 7 years in Afghanistan.
False.
7. Said Article I of the Constitution refers to the Executive Branch.
False. Article I refers to the Legislative Branch.
8. Alaska has a Windfall Profit Tax on oil.
False.
9. Obama supported a nuclear weapons test ban.
False.
10. McCain opposed Clinton on Bosnia.
False.
Posted by: Reality on October 2, 2008 09:11 PMShirley, you are certainly shrill about "Right Wing owned AM Talk Radio, and assumes everything they said is the bible, and all other unbiased media is incorrect.. You live in a sheltered life, if you believe crap from such sites and mediums reflect anything of true Reality or truth.." so please tell us, inform wus silly rubes, WHERE EXACTLY you find all your non-biased info.
juan, it's clear you are an expert in recited talking points! Congrats on such a good job.
[/sarcasm]
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on October 2, 2008 09:27 PM"Problem is for you lot that the positions she defended have been rejected already by the American public and are more and more rejected each day as the election approaches."
Yeah, we'll see. In the cocoon of liberal spin and propaganda, I'm sure liberals think they've got things under control. How proud the left must be that they've so corrupted certain issues, like Global Warming and who is really to blame for the financial scandal, that a Republican can't even challenge it in a debate without fear of incurring the wrath of the liberal media that will attack her performance and open the door to even more egregious bias than what we'll see over the next couple of days. You all should be quite proud of the destruction of truth in America, while you work to destroy economies and protect scumbags in Congress who have cost the middle class hundreds of billions while protecting the corruption in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Frankly, I don't even think about Bush. McCain is not the strong conservative I'd have chosen, but compared to socialist radical activist Barry, McCain looks like Ronald Reagan. And if Obama's $200 million of mystery money, his Dish Network TV channel, or the throngs of worshiping brainwashed adults and singing children aren't enough to win this election, then a socialized America will have been stalled a bit longer. No army of trained liberal activists will be created, no hundreds of millions to corrupt voter fraud machines like Acorn, and no unstoppable 60-vote majority in the Senate will matter.
If Obama wins, then America will have invited a new "Age of Obama", as tonight's fair and unbiased Gwen Ifill is writing in her book. An era of wealth redistribution like we've never seen, another round of liberal appeasement of tyrants that will lead us into another global conflict, and the unleashing of corrupt congressional scum like Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, and myriad of liberal and socialist politicians who will take America to places that the overwhelming majority of Americans could never have imagined.
We'll just have to agree to wait and see if the America of our Founding Fathers will still exist on November 5.
Posted by: Reality on October 2, 2008 09:32 PM1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted "the exact same way" as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, "Drill we must." But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to "raping" the Outer Continental Shelf."
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it's passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he's always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain's record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was "dead wrong on Iraq", because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn't see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn't meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of "part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20."
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on October 2, 2008 09:33 PMWhy don't you address the claims by Karl Rove and rebut them? It would provide a much better argument than a liberal temper-tantrum. On this website an intelligent argument is certainly more credible than what passes for debate on most liberal websites.
Posted by: Reality on October 2, 2008 09:41 PMYou netroots, please! Biden could have foamed at the mouth, raised his arms over his head like an ape, spoken in tongues and you all would said he crushed Palin. Unlike most republicans, you are incapable of recognizing even the most minor weakness in your candidates. Talk about not believing reality. I don't think a lib even knows the definition of reality.
Here's an analogy for you: Expecting a liberal to say anything positive about Palin, McCain, or a conservative is like expecting Hitler to speake positive of the Jews.
Posted by: Dave on October 2, 2008 09:59 PM...homework like spelling and grammar?
Posted by: Rick D. on October 2, 2008 10:01 PMThe concept of "clean coal" is confusing. A clean coal supposedly contains smaller amounts of iron sulfide which can convert to acidic sulfates during burning. It may also contain less mercury. The mercury issue is actually irrelevant due to the trivial concentrations. Open your mouth in front of a mirror. See the shiny Ag/Hg/Cu/Sn alloys decorating your teeth.
During Clinton's 92 and 96 election campaings an indonesian named James Riady illegally funneled nearly a million dollars into Clinton's campaign funding. As a reward, William Jefferson Clinton declared SE Utah a National Monument. That part of Utah contains the World's third largest reserve of "clean coal". The reward's nature being that Riady already owned the two largest reserves, and as a National Monument, that coal become un-mineable and of no competition in the giant U.S. energy market.
This strategy came up as a "genius" last minute solution in one of filthy Adam Sorkin's "West Wing" episodes. It was shifted to a fictitious Devil's Postpile preservation scenario to make the Sierra Club happy in that episode.
We have our own coal situation in Centralia. The Seattle City Council divested us from the coal plant there. We still use that coal power, but now the profits go back to the new owners, Alta Vista in Canada.
Posted by: Bart Cannon on October 2, 2008 10:36 PM