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The clown jewel in the ferry system is the Vashon foot ferry, which was such a waste of money that even the state legislature wanted to unload it. What were the county councilmembers thinking when they agreed to take it over? Were they thinking?
A quick glance at the county's own cost and ridership numbers show that operating the Vashon foot ferry is not sensible policy. It is an exorbitantly expensive circus performance.
This briefing paper lays out the business case for the Vashon foot ferry, such as it is. The briefing projects annual ridership of 157,300 in 2008, with only negligible growth. Depending on how many people ride on weekends vs. during the week, that translates to only 200-300 individual round-trips per weekday. But 35% of the riders are merely in transit from Southworth in Kitsap County, so in effect the Vashon foot-ferry would serve 170 - 200 King County commuters a day (who, by the way, can still also take the regular ferry, no?). Yet to provide deluxe service to this 1/100 of 1% of King County residents, the other 1.8 million are forced to cough up roughly $50 million in capital costs over 10 years ( $160,000 - $250,000 per daily commuter), with an additional $1.5 million or so in annual operating subsidy ($5,000 - $7,500 per daily commuter per year). Yes, that's a good deal for a few dozen people on Vashon (and an even better deal for a few more in Kitsap County), and a fabulously good deal for the Inland Boatmen's Union, which gets a few make-work jobs that wouldn't exist but for today's clowns. But for the rest of us King County suckers who get stuck with a perpetual increase in our property tax, it looks very foolish indeed.
But at least we can thank Dow Constantine and Jane Hague for giving us a good laugh. Cue the music.
Posted by Juvenal at July 07, 2008 09:30 AM | Email ThisWho cares if you don't use it? It's there for you if you need it. I don't travel on a lot of King County roads, but they're there for me if I ever need to, and I sure don't mind paying taxes to maintain YOUR roads.
Better to fire up the gomers whose knees jerk when they hear the word TAXES! AAARRRGGGHHH!
You're the clowns. Dow Constantine gets elected with 80 percent of the vote, and you lot are too impotent to even challenge him, much less ever beat him.
Posted by: ivan on July 7, 2008 09:43 AMAs you elect tax and spend liberals you get bigger projects that are faced with cost over run after cost Overrun. I wonder where the money really went. OR do you just lie about the cost to get it started and Say OOPs every time. When costs rise too much and Taxes increase you are supporting what Happened in Michigan to happen here. There is a limit the clowns must be put in check or welcome to Michigan lifestyle. Posted by: David Anfinrud on July 7, 2008 10:05 AM
Who cares? Anyone that isn't a fringe-left socialist nut job, since you ask... and which perfectly explains your all-too-typical lack of concern over yet another colossal waste of taxpayer dollars.
One wonders... was Jane sober when she went along with this program? And that 80% of Constantine's constituency are a bunch of sheep doesn't mean he's worth the paper he's printed on... he isn't.
Good and worthy selection for today, J.
Posted by: hinton on July 7, 2008 10:06 AMThe $15 million or so a year would be much better use to fund general government in King County. Especially public safety and criminal justice. General government is largely dependent on the property tax, which can only increase by 1% a year without voter approval.
However, it is very easy for the King County Council to adopt the ferry tax (benefiting a small minority on Vashon Island) and also a flood control tax (mostly benefiting a small number in low lying areas), because the legislature authorized these taxes to be passed by the council alone, without a vote of the people.
On the other hand, I doubt that you will see Jane Hague, Larry Phillips and Dow Constantine asking the voters to increase general property taxes so that we can avoid cutting back on the prosecutor's office, sheriff's office, and other essential county services. It is easy to blow $15 million on luxury foot ferries, while ignorning a projected $70 million general government shortfall.
Posted by: Richard Pope on July 7, 2008 10:37 AMYou can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time,but Democrat politicians can fool liberals 24/7/365 until the end of time.
Posted by: NW Denizen on July 7, 2008 11:06 AMOnly in King county where $$$ and spending flows like a levy breaching.
And Ignorance is again in order
The Klown award is truely justified in this incident.
Posted by: gs on July 7, 2008 12:08 PMNote that the Vashon run is almost half the cost of the Elliot Bay route in spite of having similar ridership. The costs quoted are nonsense ( $160,000 - $250,000 per daily commuter)especially because this the system price (Elliot Bay, and future plans). Correct math shows that it will cost about $10/commuter trip of which the commuter will be paying at least half. So figure $5 subsidy per daily commuter for the sake of discussion.
Posted by: BG on July 7, 2008 12:28 PMWe could sure use a bridge here in Mukilteo. The ferry back up from the dock to 92nd street.
That's over a mile long and it happens day after day. If you live on any of the side streets your shafted.
The math probably isn't as bad as Juvenal has it, but it is still about a $15 to $20 million per year expense. We are subsidizing SPRAWL, and largely benefiting wealthier folks who chose to live on Vashon Island and commute to Seattle. We need to be focusing on essential government services.
Folks like Larry Phillips condemn Ron Sims for next year's projected $70 million shortfall in general government, but don't hesitate to commit $15 to $20 million per year in property taxes to a non-essential frill that benefits a select minority of better-off individuals.
As I stated before, the political dynamics is that the legislature gave the county council the power to impose this tax without a vote of the people. Had the council wanted to raise the same amount of property taxes to benefit general government, I-747 (and its recently adopted substitute after it was declared unconstitutional) would have required the people to vote on it.
And Republicans should not get so smug about calling this a "Democrat" waste of money. Jane Hague and other Republicans on the council supported this too. Dino Rossi wants to waste an even greater annual amount of money for the bonds for a new basketball arena. And George W Bush has wasted far more money per capital on Iraq and other fiascos.
Posted by: Richard Pope on July 7, 2008 12:50 PMKudos to Reagan Dunn for being the only member on the entire Council to oppose this tax.
Posted by: SeattleR on July 7, 2008 02:20 PMPoliticians and bureaucrats think money grows on trees. At minimum we should have far better prioritization of existing funds. I'm sure even Ivan can think of a better use of these funds. But this is what we get from decades of Progressive majority in Western WA.
Posted by: Jeff B. on July 7, 2008 03:38 PMThat is some amount of money being spent elsewhere to bring the daily commuter (@200/day roundtrip) down from the $57.50/trip (not counting debt service costs but adding in the $5 paid by commuter) all the way to $5. Any more detail on that claim?
Also, my experience was that the 7am ferry was really the only one ever full. And really more Kitsap folks than Vashon. It was quite a sight to see the Kitsap riders literally run (and occasionally fall) from the car ferry to the PO ferry.
Every taxpayer in King County just got the shaft!
Posted by: GS on July 7, 2008 04:18 PMPosted by: Clusiana on July 7, 2008 02:25 PM"
Vashon Island has always been part of King County.
Let those who need the ferry pay for the ferry...
Road taxes are handled at the gas pump...
Posted by: juandos on July 7, 2008 04:58 PMEvery homeowner in Can't County gets this same "it'll only cost you $100 per family" 20 times a year, year after year. But his ignorance and King County's greed don't realize that these mount up to people being driven from their land and homes.
Ole Ivan surely has no clue, or has not seen what
all these "it's only another hundred dollars" do to most people of this county who are strapped to the gills with Federal Tax Hikes, State Tax Hikes, and Can't County tax hikes...
Get a F'n Clue Ivan! Cookoo
A
Road taxes are handled at the gas pump...
The right to use those roads that were funded at the pump can carry an additional fee. See tolls for bridges, hot lanes etc., the swindle of our gas tax is to build roads, not to build them and to use them necessarily.
Vashonscott (#25) has certainly got it right that all transportation is subsidized.
Unfortunately and bipartisanly so. Republicans and Democrats equally and fervently believe all infrastructure costs should be socialized, including now ever more levies on the Mississippi and all of the vacation mansions in Florida. Rossi's plan to increase the government subsidy for driving by raiding the general fund is a great example of this fervent belief in socializing these costs.
In order to not subsidize a good it provides, government should turn a profit on that good, just as a private sector business would do. (It should also reduce taxes accordingly so any change is revenue neutral to the public sector).
Our state Constitution disallows the road tax from being used to turn a reasonable profit on the roadway, but it leaves what amounts to a useful loophole: we can use gas-tax money for the ferry system.
We should, we owe it to island and peninsula dwellers (I'm not one). It's shameful now that the Highway Lobby has managed to hijack most of the money from the gas-tax that should be being spent on the ferry system.
And King County property tax payers should never have been involved in this. (Property tax--there's an atrocious tax from any angle you look at it.)
Thanks all,
New Left Conservative #1
The Port of Seattle subsidy is for maritime operations. A bit over $70 million a year in King County property taxes to subsidize shipping companies and cruise lines. The airport is self-supporting. Technically, the airport receives some federal money from local ticket charges and the federal airline ticket tax, but nothing whatsoever from King County taxes. The Port of Seattle commission is controlled by Republicans -- four of the five commissioners are either self-avowed Republicans, or were endorsed by the King County Republican Party and Republican officials. It is not surprising that a Republican-controlled Port of Seattle commission imposes over $70 million a year in property taxes on King County property owners in order to subsidize their Republican friends in shipping companies and cruise lines.
Posted by: Richard Pope on July 7, 2008 10:40 PMThe real argument is "What was the need" when the current ferry system offers walk on ferry service.
These boats are running daily, with the capacity for walk on service.
So WHY are we putting separate walk on ferries on the same routes?
Posted by: gs on July 8, 2008 08:33 AMPosted by Vashonscott at July 7, 2008 09:50 PM"
Scott-
With your specious argument, precisely how do you propose we build some accountability for the cost and type of transportation we subsidize??
That has always been the #1 gripe..
Public Transportation....at what cost??
You choose to live on Vashon.
You should expect to pay a huuuuge cost, especially if you are a daily commuter.
Vashon has become a commuter home for wealthy attorneys...just like Bainbridge.
Pay up Scott...or move!
North Bend is only 440 feet elevation. There isn't much snow removal needed there. When there is, it is paid for out of the city budget.
I can't support special subsidies to make public transportation more convenient for the relatively wealthy people who have chosen to live on Vashon Island. There is already ferry service and Metro buses running at the Vashon-Fauntleroy route.
Why is this more important than adequately funding our sheriff's office, prosecuting attorney, court system and jails?
Posted by: Richard Pope on July 8, 2008 08:39 AM"So WHY are we putting separate walk on ferries on the same routes?"
--
Here's a clue, stupid. They're NOT on the same routes. The foot ferries go straight downtown to Colman Dock, not to Fauntleroy.
They relieve the load on the car ferries, on the Metro buses, and on the highways. And when the King County Ferry District expands to serve the Eastside and South Lake Union, it will even further help reduce congestion on the highways and surface streets.
For lackwits like you, all government is EEEEEEEvil and all taxes are EEEEEEEEvil, but plenty of people will use this mode of transportation, and will be darned glad to have it. And what's more, they will vote to keep taxing narrow-minded cheapskates like you to pay for it.
And when we're making biodiesel out of algae and the cost goes down again, we'll be able to serve Kitsap County, too.
Why are we not subjecting the Vashon Island folks to the same move to the city, carrot and stick social engineering that the rest of us have to put up with. Shouldn't the Vashon Island folks be coerced into the Rainer valley like the rest of us.
Are they special,or is this an excuse to create a living wage job to stuff in the blue pages.???
Posted by: Publicbulldog on July 8, 2008 09:16 AM
The Sheriff should resign if law enforcement can't enforce property crimes with 70 percent of the King County budget.
What, they need all our money to protect us.Good gaaawd.
Al Copone could protect us better for 30 percent of our budget.
More union graba$$ BS.
Hey hardy Rahr Rahr if you can't protect us with 70 percent of our budget get the hell out.
LOL Posted by: Publicbulldog on July 8, 2008 09:25 AM
It takes energy to make biodiesel out of Algae. More than what makes financial sense. That's why Ethanol has been a failure, and has driven up food prices according to the latest Worldbank study. And Biodiesel has shown its failure at more than $6 a gallon. If it made sense to grow fuel, we would have done it long ago. Land value in the US makes that prohibitive on any large scale, especially when you consider all of the diesel that goes in to farming the land to grow the corn.
it's not penciling out, which is why KC Metro dumped Seattle Bio-Diesel. And Algae is a better idea than corn, but still not viable on anywhere near the level of fossil fuels.
The solution is nuclear. All of the power that a typical family uses in a year is contained in about the size of marble of fissile material. Similar coal would take up roomfuls. Nuclear is as clean as it gets, and despite cries about water usage, if properly designed it can be largely closed loop. And water makes up 2/3 of the surface of the earth. If we locate plants properly and even if we have to pump water some distance, a long term nuclear infrastructure will be far cheaper and far more reliable that any other fuel. Not to mention far more dense. That's why France powers itself on nuclear. And we have the largest accident free nuclear deployment in the world in form of our Navy ships. Year after year, deaths due to nuke accidents ZERO. Deaths due to coal, oil, a lot higher. And air quality suffers with coal as well.
If we really make a concerted effort to reduce all usages of fossil fuels for anything other than vehicular use, while at the same time using nukes, and starting a space race like contest to develop better vehicle fuel, battery and other technology, we could easily solve all of our energy needs. And then we could stop the madness of constant whining of the peak oil myth, and transition to new technology while using fuel that our current infrastructure demands.
But we won't get there with Democrats. Just today Democrats in Congress outlined their energy strategy:
"Right now, our strategy on gas prices is drive small cars and wait for the wind."
Foolish fantasy and about what we would expect from unscientific people who think that wind and algae are the answer.
Posted by: Jeff B. on July 8, 2008 10:54 AM93.6% of the people on Vashon Island are White. The median household income in 1999 was $58,261. Only 6.0% of the population is below the poverty level.
For King County as a whole, only 75.7% of the people are White. The median household income in 1999 was $53,157. 8.4% of the county's population was below the poverty level.
There are areas of King County much more deserving of government largesse than Vashon Island. For example, take my own east Bellevue neighborhood, zip code 98007: Median household income of $48,606 in 1999, and 9.2% of the population below the poverty level. Also, much more ethnically diverse, with only 64.6% of the population being White.
So basically we have 8 out of the 9 members of the King County Council saying that it is extremely important to increase King County property taxes by $15 to $20 million per year to provide luxury water taxi service for rich White people on Vashon Island to get directly from the island to their high-paying jobs in downtown Seattle.
This is more important to the council than using the money for general government purposes, such as law enforcement, prosecution, courts, and jail. And more important to the council than human services (which tend to provide benefits focused lower income people, including lower income minority groups).
You would expect these kind of public policy choices from rich Republicans, such as Jane Hague and Reagan Dunn. (Of course, Dunn was the ONLY council member to oppose this nonsense, so he deserves credit for doing the unexpected.) Too bad that the Democrats on the council seem to have forgotten basic Democratic values!
Posted by: Richard Pope on July 8, 2008 11:02 AMIf you go here and read through the site and watch the videos, you will learn that a whole lot of science and a whole lot of private enterprise disagrees with you about biodiesel from algae, which is NOT the same thing as ethanol from corn.
Can you say "FARMER WELFARE"
Posted by: gs on July 8, 2008 05:00 PMWe have a farm bill though, because farmers are socialists, reside in the blue counties, are all represented by Democrats and have lived in welfare for so long they don't know any other way.
Unfortunately, despite 6 years during which the Republicans controlled congress and voted down every farm bill, the Democrats are back in power, restarted these subsidies and over road the President's veto without a single Republican vote (oops, checked my facts - seems perhaps a hundred Republicans voted to over ride the veto).
Posted by: BA on July 8, 2008 05:52 PMI appreciate many of the posts here that have brought out well-researched points, including things I hadn't even thought about, such as the racial breakdown of the beneficiaries of the program. Thanks everybody.
However, some posters at SoundPolitics are again repeating the misinformation that Democrats only are to blame for biofuel. Bush's Ag Secretary was all over the news recently with the absurd and unsupportable statement that biofuels were responsible for only 3% of the runup in food prices. He also co-wrote an opinion piece in the Sea. Times spouting the usual pro-biofuel hype, and his boss is insisting on staying the course on biofuel mandates.
Also, there has been some significant resistance in the Dem party to biofuels with a number of coastal democrats like Boxer and Shumer and others voting no.
Algae is another bait and switch tactic by the biofuel lobby, now that cellulosic hopefully is running out of steam. The mandates now in force that are scheduled to ratchet up ridiculously (Europe may be backing off new mandates according to an article today in the NYTimes) have nothing to do with algae, they are for corn. They need to be killed to save people from starving to death, and to keep more tropical rain forests from pointlessly being destroyed and to save all of us from terrible pain at the grocery store. Algae has nothing to do with any of this, but it's very useful in taking the heat off corn, as it distracts people and derails a conversation away from the real subject at hand, which is the biofuel mandates in the real world and real time. The biofuel nightmare has only just begun.
Thanks all, New Left Conservative #1
Posted by: New Left Conservative #1 on July 8, 2008 10:32 PMThe madness continues.
I have nothing against coming up with new forms of energies, but for the hell of me don't understand how any of these are going to put a dimple in the hubcap of what is necessary today.
The increase in the price of oil is going to drive up food prices anyway. If corn and wheat were as cheap as they were six years ago, then massive profits would be made by buying up all the crop and making it into biodiesel (corn oil) and alcohol (fermenting the remainder). So food will always cost at least as much as its fuel conversion value. It is easy to ignore basic economics and simply blame "the Democrats" for the recent increases in food costs.
Posted by: Richard Pope on July 9, 2008 01:48 AM