A strip club raid worth a damn. Going after the criminal owners rather than those on either end of a lap dance.
Posted by Eric Earling at June 03, 2008 07:02 AM | Email ThisAs a result I have to question whether or not the investigation is really fair. I would probably question it much less if one could actually open new strip clubs in this weird nanny state liberal puritan environment. It's so confusing that a liberal city like this wouldn't allow strip clubs and would go so far as to try and ban lap dances and such.
Posted by: Andrew Brown on June 3, 2008 08:40 AM"liberal puritan" Hmmm...sounds like an oxymoron.
Posted by: NW Denizen on June 3, 2008 10:10 AMYou mean this place...
http://www.topoftheocean.com/
Posted by: NW Denizen on June 3, 2008 10:28 AMReally? Not questioning your statement, but am genuinely curious. Never made the connection.
Top of the Ocean. That takes me back just a few years.
And the Back Fourty (forty?) rings a bell. Didn't they have a caveman/hillbilly character as a logo or something like that?
Posted by: jimg on June 3, 2008 11:50 AMThere was another strip club they owned or at least controlled in Ponders, I can't remember the name of it though, as well as nasty little massage parlor/whore houses all over teh palce that were controled by Carbone/Colacurcio and had the politicians on the take as well.
It was common knowledge growing up in Lakewood who and what was going on and what the connections were, I mean everybody just talked openly about it.
Posted by: JDH on June 3, 2008 01:50 PMThanks for the background. Grew up in North (Mont Downing) and then South Tacoma (wapato park), and spent many a day at Villa Plaza - not to mention the old single-screen theater that seemed to be the center of unincorporated Lakewood back in the day. Was a pup at the time - late 60s/early 70s.
There was distance between towns back then. Now, it's all blended together.
Again, thanks. I still hit the Schooner whenever I'm up that way.
Posted by: jimg on June 3, 2008 02:42 PMI have never been in a strip club. Mostly it is because I am too cheap and afraid of diseases. I like monogamy.
But if you really love the idea of freedom, then you must not advocate using the law to violate the liberty of others when they are only engaged in peaceful, consensual acts between other adults.
It is interesting to see what happens when fiscal conservatism collides with social conservatism as it does here. The fiscal conservatives should see this as an entrepreneur getting shaken down by the cops and politicians looking for more campaign contributions or bribes. They should see it as an example of over-regulation of small business that is dragging down the state's economy. But the social conservatives see it as an opportunity to force their version of morality on people via the law. The State as moral educator.
Do the social conservatives win whenever they are in conflict with the fiscal conservatives?
If so, this could be one reason the GOP does so badly in this state.
Why aren't the cops out looking for murderers, rapists and thieves? Is it because it is more fun staking out a strip club?
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on June 3, 2008 03:30 PMThis was my thoughts exactly on the last strip club raid they did when they arrested strippers and fined clubs for lap dances. Strip clubs are way, way down on my priority list for law enforcement.
As for this raid, I'd like to see what evidence of illegal activity they have on the owner, but if this is just about some strippers who had sex with customers, I could care less and is absolutely a waste of police resources and taxpayer dollars.
Posted by: Palouse on June 3, 2008 03:48 PMI understand not wanting the place to be trashy, but we DO let hippies deface downtown Seattle openly with chalk and such, so why not have strip clubs too? Especially in a town with such a liberal attitude toward sex. I just don't get it.
Posted by: Andrew Brown on June 3, 2008 03:54 PMhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2007/sep/23/travelnews.amsterdam
Well one of the local geniuses that hang out here with this gem: "It is interesting to see what happens when fiscal conservatism collides with social conservatism as it does here. The fiscal conservatives should see this as an entrepreneur getting shaken down by the cops and politicians looking for more campaign contributions or bribes. They should see it as an example of over-regulation of small business that is dragging down the state's economy. But the social conservatives see it as an opportunity to force their version of morality on people via the law. The State as moral educator."
To which I will simply refer him to the two links above that pertain to Amsterdam, hardly an enclave of social conservatism. One would have to live in a vacuum to not be familiar with what follows prostitution into a City and Amsterdam is now FINALLY convinced by PERSONAL EXPERIENCE OF THE ENTIRE CITY's QUALITY OF LIFE FOLLOW THEIR SOCIAL EXPERIMENTS WITH PROSTITUTION AND NARCOTICS INTO THE SEWER. You are obviously to stupid to learn by observation of the mistakes of others, or it is your design to tear down civilization and you make your idiotic statements in order to advance that goal. I think the latter applies in your case.
Posted by: JDH on June 3, 2008 06:23 PMI never saw a fight there, or even an argument for that matter. There was plenty of 'prostitution-lite.' Big deal.
Seattle voters passed Referendum 1, to repeal the 4 foot rule, by 63-37%. Yet Nickels, Carr, and Kerlikowske persist with the crusade. And Nickels will probably continue unchallenged as mayor for as long as he wishes....go figure.
Posted by: russell garrard on June 4, 2008 01:39 AM1) Former governor Albert Rosellini's dad, Giovanni, is one of the founders of the Colacurcio crime family. Al is 92, but Al still gets around. We had a MAFIA GOVERNOR in this state from the 1940s to the 1960s, and you wonder why the Democrat party has so much power in this state.
2) Because of Al, the Colacurcio crime family is a BIG influence in the Washington State Democrat Party. Make no mistake, this is a blow to the Washington State Democrats. Al Rosellini was Gary Locke before Gary Locke was born.
3) Colacurcio is under suspicion for MURDER. At least five of them. This goes way beyond strip clubs you dolts, this is a RICO case. This is the biggest crime family on the West Coast and you guys are discussing the demeanor of parking lot attendants. Grow a brain. It's the FBI, it's way beyond King County law enforcement. Fifty-five years of crime family is finally going to go down.
Posted by: Russell's Conscience on June 4, 2008 06:27 AMAlas, unclothed girls are captured performing sex acts, now my family may rest secure.
How many precious man-hours were used to "investigate" these cases.
Priorities leave much to be desired. Mayne next week they will bust a gaggle of jaywalkers or a pack of belt-less drivers. Worst yet, those irritating smokers with 30 feet of a door. Get those rascals. Reminds me of the old Fearless Fosdick comics.
Posted by: Snuffy on June 4, 2008 11:46 AMJust exactly what do you think brought about Amsterdam deciding to close all of the whore houses there? Let me clue ya' it wasn't because they were not a public menace that even the residents of Amsterdam could recognize. Take a look at the links above - Amsterdam closed 20% of their whore houses and then closed 30% of those remaining a year later and has vowed to close all of them. So do you think that the people running them are simply going to close up shop? No it is going to take police resources being used to drive them out because of the recognized fact that they are a blight on the community.
Posted by: JDH on June 4, 2008 12:40 PMAre you making the assertion that all strip clubs are fronts for organized crime? Does this include the ones in Vegas? Or just Seattle and select other cities?
Could it be that these strip clubs turn into this because new ones aren't allowed, and thus there is no competition and corruption can flourish? Or is your assertion that a strip club will equal crime, period?
Posted by: Andrew Brown on June 4, 2008 12:54 PM*a great deal of trafficking and organized crime in Montreal as well as Canada in
*Drugs, prostitution, strip club infiltration, anti-police tactics
*A front-page story in today's Sunday Republican describes the last months of Adolfo "Big Al" Bruno, whose leading role in Western Massachusetts organized crime ended when he was gunned down in November 2003. Strip clubs feature prominently in the article
Do the rest your self, this is a typical loser tactic. 911,000 hits and damn near every one of them consistent with my position.
Posted by: JDH on June 4, 2008 01:41 PMrofl, and I'm the loser here?
Posted by: Andrew Brown on June 4, 2008 01:55 PMI have no doubt that organized crime has used strip clubs as a front in the past. However, the strip club in itself is the legitimate business. The problem lies in the organized crime part of the equation.
If you don't want a strip club in your neighborhood, I have no argument for that. It's your opinion and I can respect that. But there is a demand for it, and limiting who is allowed to compete in this market like Nickels and the Seattle city council has only leads to this corruption that you're complaining about.
Let honest business owners run honest business. If it wasn't a strip club it would be something else.
Posted by: Andrew Brown on June 4, 2008 02:50 PMI really don't know a lot about Colacurcio. If he really is Seattle's version of the Godfather, he is a whole lot slicker than Gotti. So slick, that nobody even knows what his crime activities are. Chop shops, drugs? Who knows, all we have are vague 'connections.' As for the murders, they are at 20-30 years old, and Colacurcio has yet to be implicated.
I'm not saying that Colacurcio is pure as snow, but let's have something to back up the 'mafia' accusation. The only thing I see that he's done is a) had sex with a 16 year old girl when he was 23 or so, almost 70 yrs ago; b) income tax evasion c) tried to bribe the Seattle city council into letting him use his land, that he purchased, for parking spaces for his club.
I don't consider a,b, or c as major threats to my life, limb and property. In the case of (c), I see the city council as running a protection racket, with Colacurcio as the victim.
Maybe somebody has some evidence against him--if so I'd love to hear it. I only know that I went to two of his clubs--Sugar's, before it was all but shut down by Shoreline, and Rick's. Both were well-run, and there were no rip-offs being perpetrated.
Maybe people who have been around Seattle longer than I have can educate me. From what I can see, blue-nosers are trying to masquerade as Elliot Ness.
Posted by: russell garrard on June 4, 2008 03:32 PM"...Biggest organized crime organization on the west coast..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colacurcio_crime_family
Posted by: Russell's Conscience on June 4, 2008 06:19 PMI'm guessing that the Crips, Bloods, & MS-13 would dispute that 'biggest' label.
Posted by: russell garrard on June 4, 2008 07:05 PMWhether any of that has any bearing on the Monday raids, I guess we'll find out in the trial.
If you read the 'rap sheet' of Colacurcio Sr, as provided in the Tues (6-3) Times, his last real crime was an assault conviction in 1969, and paying off cops to allow illegal bingo(?!) in 1971.. Beyond that, it's all tax violations. Plus 'strippergate,' in which he tried to essentially bribe the city council to be allowed to use his own land for parking, and two sexual harrassment charges from employees. If he were such a ruthless crime boss with a penchant for making 'rats' disappear, you would not expect a waitress to go to the cops with a harrassment complaint, but then you never know....
Posted by: russell garrard on June 5, 2008 08:46 AMWant to destroy organized crime in this state? One good step would be to legalize drugs and prostitution. The next steps might be to eliminate the laws that make union membership compulsory in closed shops, or that prohibit setting up competing unions in the same company. The next step should be to return state and federal governments to the limits of the Constitution, but I'm not holding my breath for that one!
But maybe we could open up garbage collection to the free market... That would put a dent in the mob's business model!
And "yes," JDH @ 20, my goal is the total destruction of civilization. Sheesh. That assertion makes you look even more stupid than me.
Actually, my real goal is the partial destruction of the government by totally peaceful means. I want the government out of education, policing the world, foreign aid, drug prohibition, prostitution, the ferry system, professional licensure, and most gun regulation. Most liberals don't understand the difference between civilization (society) and the government, but like most fiscal conservatives I make this distinction. I want to advance society by limiting the power and scope of the government.
If you want to strengthen prosecution of drug use and prostitution, then you have sided with the social conservatives against the fiscal conservatives and the limited government conservatives.
The local government wants to get a piece of the strip club action. Apparently, they are not satisfied with the revenue they are now getting. This is the real reason for the shakedown. The gang and the government are no different in this case.
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on June 5, 2008 02:01 PMThose mortified by the prostitution-lite at Rick's, and I wasn't, were hoist by their own petard. Sugar's and Deja Vu (Lk Forest Pk) were thriving 'till their towns passed severe restrictions. Neither of those clubs had a VIP area where the prostitution-lite took place (like Ricks) but after the 4 foot rules, they barely stayed in business. Then Ricks became the only game in town. Obviously a similar effect will happen now--if Ricks goes away, the alternative becomes escort businesses.
I don't know lot about Amsterdam, but it appears they became a sex-tourism center, with prostitutes sitting in store windows waiting for 'shoppers.' Nobody wants that. Even I don't like the big neon 'live nude girls' signs. Cities should be able to regulate what the public views when they walk down the street, but what goes on inside should be none of anyone's business.
Vancouver BC has virtually legalized prostitution & strip clubs, and is not 'hell on earth' as a result. I do not find the Amsterdam situation an argument for the raids here. No doubt people in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia make the same argument about moral depravity in Seattle: "look at what Seattle's become, alcohol is legal and it's hell on earth." To me, Riyadh would be hell on earth.
Posted by: russell garrard on June 5, 2008 05:55 PMAmerica is supposed to be about Liberty. Liberty requires prosecution for those who violate rights, but tolerance of all peaceful people who engage in risky or distasteful activities that mostly just harm themselves.
If we stick by our own principles, we will have less organized crime.
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on June 5, 2008 09:43 PM