Just got back down the hill from Sen. John McCain's environmental roundtable today at Rattlesnake Lake outside of North Bend. Since I'm serving multiple masters at the moment a longer bit of analysis is in the writing...
Knowing the Sound Politics audience there is ultimately one all-encompassing question that has to be asked in order to properly judge McCain and his view of Global Warming and climate change.
Do you believe that climate change and Global Warming; is it man-made or is it a natural occurrence?
"I think there is very little doubt that human activity... according to the National Academy of Sciences... human activities have had a significant and very large impact on the accumulation of greenhouse gases and greenhouse gas emissions and have caused damage to our climate. I agree with that assessment by the National Academy of Sciences."
John McCain 5/13/08
Posted by DonWard at May 13, 2008 02:29 PM | Email ThisMcCain might get some crossover votes because of it here in Say WA and that could make it competitive here too, but overall, not likely.
Posted by: Palouse on May 13, 2008 03:17 PMHow did it happen that our choices this year are all between Democrats, essentially? I've never not voted GOP in the Presidential elections, but this year may be a first. McCain is just too obnoxious.
Posted by: Kato on May 13, 2008 03:20 PMHow did it happen that our choices this year are all between Democrats, essentially? I've never not voted GOP in the Presidential elections, but this year may be a first. McCain is just too obnoxious.
Posted by: Kato on May 13, 2008 03:20 PMOf note, though, he is trusting what the academy of sciences has to say. When they realize how many false assumptions they've made, they'll likely release a report correcting the damage. Will McCain change his opinion then? Likely, I hope.
Posted by: Jonathan Gardner on May 13, 2008 03:21 PMMcCain has been trashed on SP manytimes.
Maybe your having memory problems.
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on May 13, 2008 03:25 PMFour years of government by Prisoner's Dilemma would be amusing, perhaps.
Posted by: OregonGuy on May 13, 2008 03:27 PMHis team wisely realized that the public has been brainwashed into believing this Global Warming garbage, so they are removing it as an issue. And they're doing so early.
McCain wants the contest to be focused on experiance - especially when the red phone rings at 3:00 am.
Posted by: NeverGore on May 13, 2008 03:40 PMWho does the guy have to give him the data? He hangs out with the Dems, and in fact, was on the shortlist for Kerry in '04 for VP.
Same goes for his info on the immigration issue and what Americans want.
I'll give him cred on national security somewhat (and the cred is not from his VietNam experience, but its lessons).
In other words, can he be swayed or relisten to the evidence after he is sworn in, or is this him?
I'll still vote for him (unless Huckabee is the VP and then the balls are in the air) because of the potential to appoint a good SCOTUS. I learned my lesson with Perot.
Posted by: swatter on May 13, 2008 03:50 PMHe'd be better off playing the Muslim card...the issue extends to voters of all demographics. No one wants to see a Muslim in the White House.
"Fear is generated to garner popular support for the proposed government action, even when some liberty has to be sacrificed. This leads to a society that is systemically driven toward fear-- fear that gives the monstrous government more and more authority and control over our lives and property.
Fear is constantly generated by politicians to rally the support of the people. Environmentalists go back and forth, from warning about a coming ice age to arguing the grave dangers of global warming....In all instances where fear is generated and used to expand government control..." ~ Ron Paul | June 2006
I'm not voting for our party's 'presumptive' candidate... I'm voting for our party's 'actual' values... I'm voting for Ron Paul!
Posted by: C.B.Ross on May 13, 2008 04:08 PM"Fear is generated to garner popular support for the proposed government action, even when some liberty has to be sacrificed. This leads to a society that is systemically driven toward fear-- fear that gives the monstrous government more and more authority and control over our lives and property.
Fear is constantly generated by politicians to rally the support of the people. Environmentalists go back and forth, from warning about a coming ice age to arguing the grave dangers of global warming....In all instances where fear is generated and used to expand government control..." ~ Ron Paul | June 2006
I'm not voting for our party's 'presumptive' candidate... I'm voting for our party's 'actual' values... I'm voting for Ron Paul!
Posted by: C.B.Ross on May 13, 2008 04:08 PMhttp://www.logicalfallacies.info/
Read it. Live it. Love it.
kthxbye
Posted by: Andrew Brown on May 13, 2008 04:26 PMI won't vote for him, and I might actually vote for Obama just to spite the idiotic GOP that made him the nominee. I don't think I'm the only one that feels this way. Let Mr. Maverick get a taste of them apples!
Posted by: Smoley on May 13, 2008 04:35 PMHummm.... Who to believe. The august group of intellectuals who post comments on this forum, or the National Academy of Sciences???
Ya know... I know you folks mean well, but I'm gonna go with the NAS just this one time.
I campaigned and voted for Bush in 2000... I was a big fan of his unabashed pro-life stance and his (now abandoned) foreign policy of no nation building. I voted for him again in '04. George HW Bush and Ronald Reagan had my full support in school debates... but my age prevented me from giving them my vote. I did however wear black to school in mourning the day Clinton was elected. Sadly, I did not vote for Lincoln. Might I ask... did you?
I'm curious how wanting to end a federal and hugely unsuccessful 'war on drugs' and have that funding and battle be fought at the state level is un-Republican? The emphasis here is on taking the "federal" out of the equation, not on promoting drug use. If you're the resident expert on the "Marijuana Party"... exactly how many 'values' do they hold? Frankly, I've never touched the stuff... and I resent the insinuation that just because I support Ron Paul... I'm some sort of a smoke tokin', tie-dye wearin' hippie. The fact is... I'm a husband and father who is gravely concerned that our nation is going to 'pot' ... and McCain doesn't have the answers!
I've been told that our nation isn't ready for Ron Paul and his ideas... And I'm beginning to agree with this statement. Just like I agree with the statement that I'm not ready to go to the dentist, even though I'm sure I have several cavities. Americans aren't ready for Ron Paul because they're not willing to move beyond the position of playing armchair politics, drinking deeply from the agendas of the 'establishment' or they simply aren't ready to admit that the 'greatest generation' is nearly dead and they would rather keep popping pain killers than face the music and finally go in for that root canal.
Someday posterity will look back and realize the wisdom in what the good Dr. Paul has ordered.
Does that clear things up Doug?
Posted by: C.B.Ross on May 13, 2008 04:56 PMYou're a better commenter than that to miss this basic reading comprehension question.
On topic please.
Posted by: Don Ward on May 13, 2008 05:27 PMAnd since 50% of our power nationally is linked to high emitting resources such as coal and others which do pollute CO2 and other harmful gases, we would have made a significant dent!
I cringe every time I see a statement like this. Why in the world would anyone refer to CO2 as a pollutant or harmful gas? It's a normal and very necessary part of the Earth's atmosphere. Plants couldn't survive without CO2 and animals couldn't survive without plants.
For some perspective on the effects of CO2 and human influence on that balance in the overall atmosphere, please go to:
http://www.ncpa.org/globalwarming/GlobalWarmingPrimer.pdf
But I will behave myself.
Yes, we dullards know it exists. We also know that it's caused by illegal aliens. Film @ 11.
So back on topic, I just read a news report covering McCain's hike around North Bend and suspiciously absent was one Dino Rossi. Is Dino purposely avoiding the McCain train?
The other big one would be those illegal aliens referenced in #28.
Can we at least get a law passed the compromises---if the mexican rolls a barrel of crude across- we'll give them amnesty.
I bet McCain could get on board with that brilliant solution.
Posted by: Andy on May 13, 2008 06:00 PM11. McCain is running a brilliant campaign.
His team wisely realized that the public has been brainwashed into believing this Global Warming garbage, so they are removing it as an issue. And they're doing so early.
Posted by NeverGore at May 13, 2008 03:40 PM
Sounds like not all the dullards got the word.
Could you fill them in for me Smoley?
Look, there is no good candidate running in 2008. But if you hold out for only an ideal candidate or just ignore them at election time, the worst candidate wins. And you lose.
Want Supreme Court justices that use the Kelo decision to let our government increase the taking of private property? How about like Germany, where a court ordered the parents of a kid to jail because they home schooled him instead of turning him over to the state for education? It is happening right now in Germany, just like what Hitler did back in the '30's.
How about giving welfare benefits to the multiple wives of a Muslim, thus recognizing Shia law over Western law, in the UK, a Western country? think it has no effect on our law? UK law, US law.....ever heard of the Magna Carta? It is all related.
There is a lot going on that a shallow, rookie Leftist like Obama will just surrender to when these issues come up on the worldwide stage in the next 4 years. Do this enough times, and Iran, Syria, the Palistinians and Al-Queda become empowered to do just about anything. And all of it is bad for our way of life and our future.
Don't like $4 a gallon gas? How about $9 gas? Plus food inflation at 20% a year. Don't worry about what McCain thinks about with Global Warming - we will be in a national and worldwide depression because the American economic engine is being taken apart externally by OPEC and internally by the Liberal Democrats.
And you sit by and let it all happen because McCain is not conservative enough for you.
There are many reasons a hard conservative isn't running this year. But letting the bigger of the two Socialist/Dems run the free world is committing suicide to our way of life.
This is not an election for conservative perspective to shine. It is an election that could result in creating circumstances that would be against our entire way of life. The damage the Socialist/Democrats could do with an Obama and dual Democrat House and Senate is horrible. It would certainly result in such a weak, anti-Western world that the atmosphere would be ripe for world war. The Islamic facists are licking their chops at a weak leader who will cower to their demands. And Barak will cower and cower, and then do something real stupid. He already said he would invade our oun ally, Pakistan, if they don't respond to his wishes. Because of his non-experience and Leftist advisors, Obama is rookie enough to cause a war that would require us to draft our sons and daughters by the millions. It would make Iraq look like a weekend at a paintball fight.
Wake up and quit whining about what McCain doesn't do right, because your survival depends on what he can do right - stepping up to world agression instead of being weak.
I agree completly. He does not deserve our vote because he does not represent what we want (small government).
I suggest to all opposed to McCain to join the Ron Paul revolution. It is not about Ron Paul but rather what he is represents. What does he represent? A return to a small limited consitutional government.
Do not hold your nose this year and hope that things will get better in the future. They won't unless and until enough people say enough is enough. That can happen this year. Sure we are stuck with our bad choice this year but we have to let the country know that if we end up with a bad choice we will not support them. Once the establishment candidates know they have the base no matter what they abandon us. That is what McCain has done.
Posted by: Lysander on May 13, 2008 09:01 PMcCain is way better than the alternative. Bob Barr is a phony conservative who is running as a Losertarian and also worked for the ACLU (they coddle terrorists - ya know) - he is worse than McCain, so don't get any lamebrained ideas about voting for him.
Posted by: KS on May 13, 2008 09:02 PMYou just described exactly the party I want no part of. If McCain truly turns out to be the savior of the party then I have to find a new party.
Posted by: Lysander on May 13, 2008 09:06 PMWe don't need these whiny pseduo-conservatives like Larry.
Why pick on Larry? At least in this thread. The video he linked to should be mandatory viewing in every high school science class in the country.
Posted by: RBW on May 13, 2008 09:36 PMI've wondered why the politicians are so eager to embrace the AGW scam. Of course most of them are rather gullible and are easily taken in by the hucksters, but they are also infected with power lust disease. They are rapturous imagining how much power they could wield. This is why all the Presidental candidates, McCain included, are so vague about how they would actually go about reducing man-made CO2. It would scare the living crap out of anyone that values their lives and their liberty.
McCain's carbon caps would essentially end free enterprise in the United States. The tentacles of this program would wrap themselves around every transaction that used energy. Maybe these carbon credits could be "traded" but the government would control the supply which would continually reduced to meet completely arbitary goals. The amount of graft and corruption this carbon credit bureaucracy would generate would be beyond belief. It would be orders of magnitude worse that the current ethanol scandal.
Quite frankly I don't think the American people would stand for it. A revolution would ensue in short order.
Posted by: Bill K. on May 13, 2008 10:39 PMAmericans will do nothing. It is the boiling frog theory. To cook a frog, you have to do it right (kind of like the political landscape now) Frogs will always jump out of boiling water, but if you put them in room temperature water and then slowly turn up the heat, they will succumb to the water and not jump out.
Kind of like you.
Posted by: zdawg on May 13, 2008 11:36 PMJust look at the Earth, it's almost entirely uninhabited by humans. Most of it is either water, frozen tundra, polar ice, dessert, etc. Then look at the sun and the current lack of sunspots. Lastly, look at the PDO, the warm water has moved west. There are vast physical forces from the sun, Earth, Oceans, cosmic rays, etc. that dwarf man's infinitesimal contributions by orders of magnitude.
And there have been many previous periods with high CO2 concentrations without corresponding warming.
The science is not there. Global Warming is a hoax.
Posted by: Jeff B. on May 13, 2008 11:56 PMAre you sure you're not the one in a pot steeped with fear-mongering... a fear of "what could happen" if 'we' don't support "Our McMan". Anyone elected to the presidency (conservative or otherwise) won't save us from an unknown future of fear... but a people standing together, who are willing to recognize and take action against the affronts on our personal liberties whether foreign or domestic, democrat or "republican" will be our nation's only hope... well, them and Jesus!
Bill K is right on! If/when the government swells to micro-manage CO2 reduction and untold other areas of our lives it is at the expense of our personal liberties and freedoms... "Americans will do nothing..." you say? We'll start with shutting off the "global warming" burner... before it kills any more frogs (or melts any more glaciers). McCain's showed his hand today... clearly turning that temperature up. In fact, the only Republican candidate who's got a good handle on this issue is Ron Paul.
Now before you roll your eyes... close them and think about how much you'd LOVE McCain if he espoused even a couple of Paul's stances... environmental policy, fiscal responsibility, limited government and border security! He'd be a pretty attractive candidate... or at least one that would stand out from the dems... If McCain aimed to protect us from the threats of invasive domestic policies as much as he promises to affront terrororism... I might even consider voting for him.
Posted by: C.B.Ross on May 14, 2008 01:55 AMwhen the heat goes out does the frog continue to "boil" or does it freeze to death?
Posted by: Ron K on May 14, 2008 02:52 AMalso read Singer's (1500-year cycle) book; melting in the middle ages; perfectly said above in 46: creeping govt micromanagement of our lives until we lose all rights; Kelo case now a TV commerical blurb to all--forgotten quickly; "hey--at least it's not MY back yard..."
how are mountains brought down? by steadily chipping away--just like the Constitution's fate; look at the cumulative view of our rights--not any one win/loss; vigilance;
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on May 14, 2008 06:24 AMAnd why not? McCain has denied it recently, but he used to tell people that he voted Gore/Lieberman, not Bush/Cheney in 2000.
And who could blame him after the dirtball campaign Bush ran against McCain in the North Carolina primary back then?
Joe Lieberman's support for McCain this year is one big example of where McCain's sympathies are grounded on a whole range of topics. Lieberman describes himself as an independent Democrat.
Posted by: redflag on May 14, 2008 06:27 AMIn short, in an attempt to become president, McCain is willing to sacrifice the conservative vote (can't win without it) to potentially gain independent democrats. Sound good in theory; but will it play in reality.
Stay tune for the fall circus.
Posted by: Snuffy on May 14, 2008 08:40 AMDepends on what issue you're looking at. McCain is a deficit hawk who will balance the budget and get rid of government pork. On that issue, he is alot more conservative than Bush. And he won't put another Ginsburg on the court like Obama would.
Posted by: Palouse on May 14, 2008 08:58 AMAh heck, I'm going skiing in May.
Posted by: boxxerace on May 14, 2008 11:49 AMObama would push socialist ideas too loudly and too fast and resistance will build up against them. In the analogy the Frog Will Jump.
But with McCain, the same people who would be on the forefront of fighting the same proposals had they come from Obama will actually help them get enacted when the same proposals come from McCain.
McCain knows how to turn up the heat gradually. That is why we are more likely to be boiled alive with McCain than Obama and that is why I am voting for Obama as the lesser of two evils because I really believe with Obama the Frog Will Jump.
Posted by: Larry on May 14, 2008 01:23 PM
You won't be able to afford to go to work!
Posted by: GS on May 14, 2008 09:45 PM99% of home dedectors are smoke and Carbon Monoxide detectors. Carbon Monoxide is the gas that kills people when they try to BBQ inside a home, or run a car with the garage door closed.
Carbon Dioxide on the other hand, helps feed your plants and is largely innocuous. What was your arguement again?
Posted by: boxxerace on May 14, 2008 10:46 PMAnother product of Seattle public school who doesn't know the difference between CO (Carbon Monoxide) and CO2 (Carbon Dioxide).
Seesh, to think that all those detectors sold are for CO2... what an idiot!
Posted by: DopioLover on May 15, 2008 09:19 AM