Today is Holocaust Remembrance Day.
English lyrics here.
Here are some quotes from the great Simon Weisenthal:
For your benefit, learn from our tragedy. It is not a written law that the next victims must be Jews. It can also be other people. We saw it begin in Germany with Jews, but people from more than twenty other nations were also murdered. When I started this work, I said to myself, 'I will look for the murderers of all the victims, not only the Jewish victims. I will fight for justice.'
(Quoted in an interview in Penthouse Magazine, 1983)
The history of man is the history of crimes, and history can repeat. So information is a defense. Through this we can build, we must build, a defense against repetition.
(Baltimore Jewish Times, February 24, 1989)
Justice for crimes against humanity must have no limitations.
(from Vienna Documentation Center)
We need partners. We cannot fight against the neo-Nazis alone. We need friends. We can win them by telling them their history, by talking about the others, the millions of people other than the Jews, that the Nazis killed. The Holocaust began with the Jewish. But it did not end with the Jews.
(from an interview in the Baltimore Jewish Times, April 3, 1981)
There is no denying that Hitler and Stalin are alive today...they are waiting for us to forget, because this is what makes possible the resurrection of these two monsters.
(from a meeting with President Jimmy Carter reported in The Washington Post, August 6, 1980)
From Justice not Vengeance (London : Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1989):
Survival is a privilege which entails obligations. I am forever asking myself what I can do for those who have not survived. The answer I have found for myself (and which need not necessarily be the answer for every survivor) is: I want to be their mouthpiece, I want to keep their memory alive, to make sure the dead live on in that memory. (p. 351)
I don't think there is any other solution than constantly coming to terms with the past, and learning from it. There is no point in minimizing guilt in order to make it easier for sons and daughters to bear the failure of their fathers and grandfathers, their mothers and grandmothers. (p. 357-8)
Hatred can be nurtured anywhere, idealism can be perverted into sadism anywhere. If hatred and sadism combine with modern technology the inferno could erupt anew anywhere. (p. 358)
The combination of hatred and technology is the greatest danger threatening mankind. (p. 358)
Violence is like a weed--it does not die even in the greatest drought. (p. 359)
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=242924
Never forget, and remember that the genocide continues in places like Darfur today and who knows where tomorrow.
Posted by: WVH on May 2, 2008 11:42 AMThe grave sins of the past by both Germany and Japan and many other still occurring must not be forgotten or tolerated.
Posted by: DopioLover on May 2, 2008 01:50 PMAs long as we have these collectivist philosophies based on sacrifice, there will continue to be human suffering and genocide.
Posted by: Jeff B. on May 2, 2008 03:52 PMThis quote from the great Simon Weisenthal:
For your benefit, learn from our tragedy. It is not a written law that the next victims must be Jews. It can also be other people. We saw it begin in Germany with Jews, but people from more than twenty other nations were also murdered. When I started this work, I said to myself, 'I will look for the murderers of all the victims, not only the Jewish victims. I will fight for justice.'
(Quoted in an interview in Penthouse Magazine, 1983)
So, because you blame a President you do not like, there should be genocide, correct? The great Mr. Weisenthal would probably weep at your stupidity. This man fought for ALL people and he fought to have a world free of the intolerance and bigotry that leads to genocide.
Here is the link to the Center, you might want to do some reading:
Annual Report
Mission Statement
The Simon Wiesenthal Center is an international Jewish human rights organization dedicated to repairing the world one step at a time. The Center's multifaceted mission generates changes through the Snider Social Action Institute and education by confronting antisemitism, hate and terrorism, promoting human rights and dignity, standing with Israel, defending the safety of Jews worldwide, and teaching the lessons of the Holocaust for future generations. With a constituency of over 400,000 households in the United States, it is accredited as an NGO at international organizations including the United Nations, UNESCO, and the Council of Europe. Headquartered in Los Angeles, the Simon Wiesenthal Center maintains offices in New York, Toronto, Palm Beach, Paris Buenos Aires and Jerusalem.
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=fwLYKnN8LzH&b=242023
Too bad people like you are so partisan, you would rather have people die than deal with the "wrong" type of people. But then, that kind of thinking led to the Holocaust, didn't it?
Thanks to everyone who respects this.
Posted by: gs on May 2, 2008 06:58 PM
A prime example of anti-Israel political figures is Jimmy Carter, who enters into non-sanctioned "peace" negotiations with a terrorist organization sworn to eradicate Israel. The imbecile Carter is the last person I would consider when commemorating leaders who have stood with the Jewish people against evil regimes and terrorist entities.
Posted by: Saltherring on May 2, 2008 07:25 PMPeople can all say that we should always heed this, but its their actions that speak the truth. We should all keep our eyes on Iran, as some are trying desperately to rewrite history with the Holocaust Deniers, where there was their convention was held last year in Teheran.
Posted by: KS on May 2, 2008 08:52 PMI realize that this smacks of an inconvenient truth..
Posted by: KS on May 2, 2008 08:55 PMThe best way to remember those who died needlessly in the Holocaust is to point out today's virulent collectivist philosophies and make sure they don't survive. Because if collectivism survives, there will be more victims of future genocide.
Posted by: Jeff B. on May 2, 2008 09:56 PM1. "Fundamentally, genocide is a product of the type of government a country has. There is a high correlation between the degree of democratic freedom a people enjoy and the likelihood that the government will commit democide. Modern democratic governments have committed virtually no domestic genocide. Those governments that commit the most genocide have been totalitarian governments, while those that committed lesser genocide have been partially or wholly authoritarian and dictatorial.
Regardless of type of government, the likelihood of genocide increases during their involvement in war, or when undergoing internal disruptions, as by revolution, rebellion, or foreign incursions. Such provides the cover and excuse for genocide. Regardless of war or peace, the motive for genocide may be to deal with a perceived threat to the government or its policies, to destroy those one hates or envies, to pursue the ideological transformation of society, to purify society, or to achieve economic or material gain.
Assuming a nondemocratic society, domestic genocide goes through eight stages, which are the classification of peoples into different categories, the symbolization by naming or characterizing them, dehumanization of members of the group, organizing to murder or exterminate members of the group, polarization of the moral distance between groups, preparation for a campaign of extermination, the actual genocide, and after the fact a denial that such was carried out."
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/GENOCIDE.ENCY.HTM
2. There have been acts of genocide in this hemosphere:
War Crimes, Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity - News - Times ...The three Argentine and Peruvian former military officers had fled their home countries ... World Briefing | United Nations: New Effort To Prevent Genocide ...
topics.nytimes.com/.../index.html?query=ARGENTINA&field=geo&match=exact
BBC NEWS | Americas | Call to back UN genocide reformAug 14, 2005 ... Oxfam says reform would help stop a repeat of genocide like Rwanda's ... South Africa, Tanzania, Nigeria, Kenya, Chile, Peru, Argentina, ...
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4150002.stm
The followers of Ms. Rand would like to place the blame for ALL genocide on collectivist groups:
""COLLECTIVISM: Collectivism is defined as the theory and practice that makes some sort of group rather than the individual the fundamental unit of political, social, and economic concern. In theory, collectivists insist that the claims of groups, associations, or the state must normally supersede the claims of individuals." -- Stephen Grabill and Gregory M. A. Gronbacher
This is a stupid argument because genocide occurs because of the lack of democracy. The Scandanavian countries are high on the collectivist scale. Seen any Swedes or Danes committing genocide lately?
There is a reason we should never forget and never re-write history on either the right or the left. Humanity failed to prevent the Holocaust, there is always hope we will rise to the occasion and prevent the next genocide.
....or to the echo chamber called Seattle, where the "thought police" march in lockstep. So much for "diversity".
Posted by: Saltherring on May 3, 2008 06:23 AMThought police, really? That is all the Rand clones can come up with? Ms. Rand, that very, very, very interesting lady wouldn't be pleased with the quality of her followers. Now let's take FL's comments:
1. FL said this, "I blame all liberals for current and past genocides. Screw em all."
Let's review:
a. The type of government likely to committ genocide is totalitarian:
"There is a high correlation between the degree of democratic freedom a people enjoy and the likelihood that the government will commit democide. Modern democratic governments have committed virtually no domestic genocide. Those governments that commit the most genocide have been totalitarian governments, while those that committed lesser genocide have been partially or wholly authoritarian and dictatorial."
b. This is the defintion of totalitarian:
"Synopsis
The government of Nazi Germany was a fascist, totalitarian state. Totalitarian regimes, in contrast to a dictatorship, establish complete political, social, and cultural control over their subjects, and are usually headed by a charismatic leader. Fascism is a form of right-wing totalitarianism which emphasizes the subordination of the individual to advance the interests of the state. Nazi fascism's ideology included a racial theory which denigrated "non-Aryans," extreme nationalism which called for the unification of all German-speaking peoples, the use of private paramilitary organizations to stifle dissent and terrorize opposition, and the centralization of decision-making by, and loyalty to, a single leader."
http://remember.org/guide/Facts.root.nazi.html
North Korea is an example of a totalitarian state based upon idiolizing father and son dictators.
I imagine if you Rand clones got control of a government appartus some where you would idiolize Ms. Rand, that very, very, very interesting lady.
c. Totalitarian regimes can be either from the right or the left. I know that Rand clones hate to be confused with facts, it gets in the way of the hatred of collectivists or statists or anyone who opposes them:
"Totalitarian regimes differ from older concepts of dictatorship or tyranny. Totalitarian regimes seek to establish complete political, social and cultural control, whereas dictatorships seek limited typically political control. Two types of totalitarianism can sometimes be distinguished Nazism and Fascism which evolved from "right-wing" extremism, and Communism, which evolved from "left-wing" extremism. Traditionally, each is supported by different social classes. Right-wing totalitarian movements have generally drawn their popular support primarily from middle classes seeking to maintain the economic and social status quo. Left-wing totalitarianism has often developed from working class movements seeking, in theory, to eliminate, not preserve, class distinctions. Right-wing totalitarianism has typically supported and enforced the private ownership of industrial wealth. A distinguishing feature of Communism, by contrast, is the collective ownership of such capital.
Totalitarian regimes mobilize and make use of mass political participation, and often are led by charismatic cult figures. Examples of such cult figures in modern history are Mao Tse-tung (China) and Josef Stalin (Soviet Union), who led left-wing regimes, and Adolf Hitler (Germany) and Benito Mussolini (Italy), who led right-wing regimes.
Right-wing totalitarian regimes (particularly the Nazis) have arisen in relatively advanced societies, relying on the support of traditional economic elites to attain power. In contrast, left-wing totalitarian regimes have arisen in relatively undeveloped countries through the unleashing of revolutionary violence and terror. Such violence and terror are also the primary tools of right-wing totalitarian regimes to maintain compliance with authority."
2. What moves totalitarian regime to genocide are the following steps:
"Assuming a nondemocratic society, domestic genocide goes through eight stages, which are the classification of peoples into different categories, the symbolization by naming or characterizing them, dehumanization of members of the group, organizing to murder or exterminate members of the group, polarization of the moral distance between groups, preparation for a campaign of extermination, the actual genocide, and after the fact a denial that such was carried out."
http://cla.calpoly.edu/~lcall/fascism.html
FL's mindset of hating "liberals" whatever that means or Saltherring's echo chanmber comments are in line with the thought police of the Rand clones.
Finally, a totalitarian state, like Nazi Germany was able to practice genocide because it SUBVERTED the rule of law. In this country our Constitutional protections are enforced by an independent judiciary and prosecutors. Here is what happened in Nazi Germany:
"LAW AND JUSTICE IN THE THIRD REICH
RELATED ARTICLES
The Third Reich was a police state characterized by arbitrary arrest and imprisonment of political and ideological opponents in concentration camps.
With the reinterpretation of "protective custody" (Schutzhaft) in 1933, police power became independent of judicial controls. In Nazi terminology, protective custody meant the arrest--without judicial review--of real and potential opponents of the regime. "Protective custody" prisoners were not confined within the normal prison system but in concentration camps under the exclusive authority of the SS (Schutzstaffel; the elite guard of the Nazi state).
The Third Reich has been called a dual state, since the normal judicial system coexisted with the arbitrary power of Hitler and the police. Yet, like most areas of public life after the Nazi rise to power in 1933, the German system of justice underwent "coordination" (alignment with Nazi goals). All professional associations involved with the administration of justice were merged into the National Socialist League of German Jurists. In April 1933, Hitler passed one of the earliest antisemitic laws, purging Jewish and also Socialist judges, lawyers, and other court officers from their professions. Further, the Academy of German Law and Nazi legal theorists, such as Carl Schmitt, advocated the nazification of German law, cleansing it of "Jewish influence." Judges were enjoined to let "healthy folk sentiment" (gesundes Volksempfinden) guide them in their decisions."
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005467
No, boys, it is not the "liberals" or Seattle socialists that are the problem, it is any ideology that is totalitarian or wants to subvert the rule of law. Should you Rand clones ever gain power, you would be totalitarians, after all, isn't that what the permanent majority is all about?
History should not be rewritten from the right or the left.
You couldn't see the forest for the trees. Left-wing Seattle is the epitome of collectivist ideology, where rights of the individual are subjugated for the common "good" of "all". Why don't you cease copying and posting volumes of communist manifesto and present an independent thought, or are you capable?
Posted by: Saltherring on May 3, 2008 10:06 AMFor those who not familiar with Niemoller's poem, a brief history of Niemoller (Wikipedia):
An early supporter of Hitler, by 1934 Niemöller had come to oppose the Nazis, and it was largely his high connections to influential and wealthy businessmen that saved him until 1937, after which he was imprisoned, eventually at Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps. He survived to be a leading voice of penance and reconciliation for the German people after World War II.
from: http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/niem.htm#order
Martin Niemöller (1892-1984):
German theologian and Protestant (Lutheran) pastor, ..... and a president of the World Council of Churches from 1961 to 1968. ..... Niemöller was a typical Christian anti-Semite who openly professed his belief that the Jews had been punished through the ages because they had "brought the Christ of God to the cross." ..... It was clearly in this Oct/Nov 1945 context that Niemöller's most quoted saying began to evolve. This early statement implies that he may have thought first of the Communists, then the disabled, then Jews, and finally countries conquered by Germany. However, it is also likely that he modified what he said for different audiences, perhaps including other groups, or changing the order depending on his goals. (Jews, by far the greatest number of those designated for removal from Germany society and eventual death, where among many 'groups' of individuals sent into concentration camps and slave labor.)
His poem is well-known, frequently quoted, and is a popular model for describing the dangers of political apathy, as it often begins with specific and targeted fear and hatred which soon escalates out of control.
The quotation (poem) was widely circulated by social activists in the United States in the late 1960s. Recent research has traced the sentiments expressed in the poem to speeches given by Niemöller in 1946. Nonetheless, the poem's wording remains controversial, both in terms of its provenance, and the substance and order of the groups that are mentioned in its many versions. While Niemöller's published 1946 speeches mention Communists, the incurably ill, Jews or Jehovah's Witnesses (depending on which speech), and people in occupied countries; the 1955 text, a paraphrase by a German professor in an interview, lists: Communists, Socialists, "the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on," and ends with "the Church." However, as cited by Richard John Neuhaus in the November 2001 issue of First Things, when "asked in 1971 about the correct version of the quote, Niemöller said he was not quite sure when he had said the famous words but, if people insist upon citing them, he preferred this version:
"In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew;
And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up."
The version inscribed at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C. reads:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.
Regardless of the order or wording of the poem and the resulting interpretation of the reason behind the groups Niemöller chose to distinguish, for the context in which I am noting the poem it is not the particular group(s) that is the issue, it is " about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group. " and the resulting unfathomable atrocities committed by Nationalists with a Socialist ideology using a Fascist methodology.
Something that needs to be keep in mind in today's political realm.
To avoid the comment by WVH posted on May 2, 2008,
" Too bad people like you are so partisan, .... "
I will point out that Fascism, the methodology used to further the aims of Nationalists with Socialist ideology, occurs in both political parties in Washington State. In the Progressive wing of the Democrat Party, of which Christine Gregoire, current Governor of Washington State, is the titular head, and in the Fascist wing of the Republican Party, of which Michael Young, past Chairman of the King County Republican Party and now Chair of the Western Washington John McCain Campaign, is the presumed head,
As posted on Soundpolitics by Jeff B. on May 2, 2008:
" (it's) too bad Progressives generally take anti-Israel positions. And too bad that Progressives don't see that their philosophy and Nazi philosophy are rooted in the same 19th century German collectivist philosophies. (As was Woodrow Wilson's militarism )
The question is, is John McCain's perceived support, as a militarist, for Israel based on anything other than his acknowledging the need to have in the Middle East a government with stable military ties to the United States?
And as posted on soundpolitics by KS on May 2, 2008:
" Be wary of the far left/progressives using their revisionist history to help us forget because of their totalitarian leanings. (The skinheads have practiced this also) .... . KS, it is just not the "left/progressives and 'skinheads' can not be presumed to be on the right. Read the series of articles on 'The Reagan Wing' detailing the use of a 'skinheads' by Michael Young, then Chairman of the King County Republican Party and now Chair of the Western Washington John McCain Campaign, to harass Republican PCO's attending Republican Caucuses with the intent to interfere with their right to vote on Party Candidates and intimidate them into not attending the PCO meetings.
Michael Young was using his 'skinhead' to harass a Conservative. A Conservative who opposed the liberal agenda of the King County, and Washington State, Republican Party.
And I agree with WVH posted on at May 2, 2008,
" The history of man is (also) the history of crimes, and history can repeat. So information is a defense. Through this we can build, we must build, a defense against repetition.
(Baltimore Jewish Times, February 24, 1989)
' A defense against repetition ' of the fascistic methods of " purging of their chosen targets, group after group " used by the King County, and Washington State, Republican Party, under the direction of Michael Young, past Chairman of the King County Republican Party and now Chair of the Western Washington John McCain Campaign, to attack Ron Paul Supporters attending Republican Caucuses.
" The history of man is (also) the history of crimes, and history can repeat. ..... "
In my opinion, John McCain, a Woodrow Wilson Militarist, choosing Michael Young, a Fascist, as the Western Washington Chair for his campaign does not bode well for his campaign. And if I am wrong and it does bode well for how John McCain views his candidacy for President, it bodes ill for Republicans who are trying to broaden the grassroots base of the Republican Party in Washington State and replace the current Republican Party leadership who are intent to " advance their politically correct leftist agendas ".
Fill in the blank:
" First they (the Republican Party Leadership) came for the _____, and I did not speak out - because I was not a _____ , " and what was the result?
" And then they came for me and by that time there was no one left to speak up. "?
Ask any Republican Christian.
Ask any Republican Conservative.
Ask any Ron Paul Supporter.
Ask anyone who attended their Republican Caucus, their Republican County Convention and who plans on attending the Republican State Convention.
Posted by: Brian Thomas on May 3, 2008 12:11 PMIs there any error in what I posted? Thought so.
You said this:
" Left-wing Seattle is the epitome of collectivist ideology, where rights of the individual are subjugated for the common "good" of "all". Why don't you cease copying and posting volumes of communist manifesto and present an independent thought, or are you capable?"
Did you know that Bill C lives in N. Seattle?
Do you consider him to be leftwing?
Now, why don't you and the Rand clones post a response to:
a. the definition of totalitarian
b. a source that says totalitarian regimes CANNOT be both right wing and left wing.
c. Causes of genocide other than totalitarian governments
Regarding an independent thought, if they took Atlas Shrugged away from you, you would lose all your vocabulary, wouldn't you?
Posted by: WVH on May 3, 2008 02:07 PMThat sounds out in left field. Can you get down to specifics about this ? I know that the Republican Party in WA has been ineffectual, starting with Chris Vance, then Diane Tebellius and the jury is still out on Luke Esser. I'd like to see someone level headed and effective like Randy Pepple (if he is even interested) be chair of the Repubs.
Me thinks Brian Thomas is a lefty who found "Be wary of the far left/progressives using their revisionist history to help us forget because of their totalitarian leanings" to be too close to he and his comrades ideology. This is speculation of course, which will either fly away or come home to roost.
Posted by: KS on May 3, 2008 02:42 PMI am not a philosopher, just a conservative looking on sadly as urban liberals drag our nation into the sewer. As such, I do not have the time to exchange meaningless utopian theories with you.
I have read much during my life and continue to read and listen. I'd like to think I've gained some measure of wisdom from observation and experience.
What I have observed through reading your postings is that you refer yourself as a Christian yet passionately support a pro-abortion, pro-homosexual rights candidate for governor. This is a contradiction in principle.
You consider yourself to be learned and well educated, yet offer few of your own opinions, instead copying/pasting the "wisdom" of others. Another contradiction.
You also refer to yourself as a political independent, with no party leanings, yet continually embrace liberal dogma and politics while attacking conservative principles and leaders. A third contradiction.
You need to be honest with us and yourself before anyone here takes your postings seriously.
Posted by: Saltherring on May 3, 2008 04:05 PM1. " That sounds out in left field. Can you get down to specifics about this ? "
I can. For a compendium go to The Reagan Wing website, search for " Young's Ongoing Violence/Intimidation: Open Letter to Satterberg November 1, 2007 by Doug Parris " and note that the subject line in the letter is " skinhead ".
Young's Ongoing Violence/Intimidation: Open Letter to Satterberg
November 1, 2007 by Doug Parris
October 25, 2007
Dan Satterberg
King County Prosecutor's Office
King County Courthouse
515 3rd Avenue
Seattle, Washington 98104
Re: "skinhead"
Mr. Satterberg:
etc. .....
Brian Thomas
2. " This is speculation of course, which will either fly away or come home to roost. "
Your comment " ..... fly away or come home to roost " indicates you are thinking fowl or at least something with wings.
You are close, you are thinking foul but vapours have not wings.
Posted by: Brian Thomas on May 3, 2008 05:52 PM1. The Rand clones don't take anyone seriously who is not a Rand clone. Fact, of the matter, even though you read extensively, you haven't read anything that refutes what I posted. All I posted was defintions of genocide, totalitarian and the different type of regimes that sponsor genocide. So, from your extensive reading please feel free to provide different defintions, you can't because the ones I posted are commonly accepted.
2. Now let's get to your other comments:
a. You said this:
"What I have observed through reading your postings is that you refer yourself as a Christian yet passionately support a pro-abortion, pro-homosexual rights candidate for governor. This is a contradiction in principle."
Interesting that the Rand clones are always attacking some one else's faith, especially those who are Christians. This is what Ms. Rand said about Christians:
"....What is correct is that I do regard the cross as the symbol of the sacrifice of the ideal to the nonideal. Isn't that what it does mean? Christ, in terms of the Christian philosophy, is the human ideal. He personifies that which men should strive to emulate. Yet, according to the Christian mythology, he died on the cross not for his own sins but for the sins of the nonideal people. In other words, a man of perfect virtue was sacrificed for men who are vicious and who are expected or supposed to accept that sacrifice. If I were a Christian, nothing could make me more indignant than that: the notion of sacrificing the ideal to the non-ideal, or virtue to vice. And it is in the name of that symbol that men are asked to sacrifice themselves for their inferiors. That is precisely how the symbolism is used. That is torture.
PLAYBOY: Has no religion, in your estimation, ever offered anything of constructive value to human life?
RAND: Qua religion, no -- in the sense of blind belief, belief unsupported by, or contrary to, the facts of reality and the conclusions of reason. Faith, as such, is extremely detrimental to human life: it is the negation of reason. But you must remember that religion is an early form of philosophy, that the first attempts to explain the universe, to give a coherent frame of reference to man's life and a code of moral values, were made by religion, before men graduated or developed enough to have philosophy. And, as philosophies, some religions have very valuable moral points. They may have a good influence or proper principles to inculcate, but in a very contradictory context and, on a very -- how should I say it? -- dangerous or malevolent base: on the ground of faith...."
1964 Playboy Interview
b. Regarding one's Christian belief's. All that is necessary to be a Christian is a profession of faith and baptism. My particular denomination does not support abortion and believes the practice of homosexuality NOT homosexuals is a sin. There are different denominations of the Christian faith ranging from Southern Baptists who are literal in their interpretation of Scripture, to Anglicans who are more liberal. Are you saying the only Christians are those who believe exactly the same dogma as you, if you do have any faith at all? Are you saying that every single Anglican is condemned to hell? I thought God was the One who decided which are Saved, not you and the atheist Rand clones.
c. Let me give you my opinion. It is dishonest of the Rand clones to continually harp that liberals, progressives or whatever are the only evil in the world. The statement that liberals are the only source of genocide in the world is dishonest and laugable. How is that for an opinion?. You folks have about as much balance and intellectual honesty as the ACORN folks you hate.
2. Now let's take the abortion issue and homosexual rights. Governor Gregoire is a Roman Catholic, but she is elected to govern ALL people from those with fundamental beliefs to no belief at all. When she became governor, abortion was legal in this state. The issue as I see it, is to persuade women not to have abortions. It has to be persuasion and not coercion. There should be support for adoption and there has to be support for women to carry their children to term. I suppose that, for arguments sake, you are bringing up the abortion issue. Rand was pro-choice, that libertarian thing.
The fact of the matter, the population at this juncture is not in favor of totally repealing the right to abortion. One might introduce informed consent, a waiting period or even a sonogram requirement. There is no political will at this point to eliminate abortion.
I have not read that the Governor is FOR abortion, as far as I have been able to determine, she is for allowing each woman to make that choice. In terms of a religious context, people have to make individual choices consistent with their beliefs.
Regarding homosexual rights. I do not support gay marriage, I do support domestic partnerships. I believe the Governor signed recent legislation. For me, it is an issue of treating people fairly.
I believe that all people should be treated fairly by government. Different Christian denominations have different views on gay marriage, but I believe that every Christian denomination I am aware of, believes that each of us is a Child of God.
3. Regarding being an indie. I will actually vote for a quality candidate of either party. You Rand clones only want to vote for folks who have drank the Rand koolaide. The problem with the Rand cult is most voters in this state want pragmatic solutions to problems, not kneejerk responses of this is collectivist or statist. You folks don't have a plan other than some hope that the world of Atlas Shrugged can be replicated. It was all a figment of Rand's imagination.
Posted by: WVH on May 3, 2008 09:07 PMTypical Rand clone, you can't engage in any substantive discussion, so you insult. Now, what part or parts of my response did you think are foolish? The fact that I outed the ideology of the Rand clones for the empty gibberish that it is?
Let's bring the discussion back to this thread. This thread was to honor those brave souls from all cultures who perished under the evil, totalitarian right wing Nazi regime. The fact that the Nazis were right wing means nothing to the victims, they were killed by evil. Evil comes in all flavors. What is foolish is not the telling of the truth, what is foolish is the denial of the truth. That is what the Rand clones seek to do. They seek their own reality which they want to foist on others. The Rand clones are intellectually dishonest and are an example of totalitarian thought.
Here is a quote for you:
QUOTATION: Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
ATTRIBUTION: It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt.--John Philpot Curran: Speech upon the Right of Election, 1790. (Speeches. Dublin, 1808.)
So, we must be vigilent against the Nazis, the Communists, The Shining Path, Pol Pot, the Janjaweed, the KKK, Aryan Nations and others like them.
We must be vigilent against the selfishness promoted by the Rand clones:
The Objectivist ethics holds that human good does not require human sacrifices and cannot be achieved by the sacrifice of anyone to anyone. It holds that the rational interests of men do not clash--that there is no conflict of interests among men who do not desire the unearned, who do not make sacrifices nor accept them, who deal with one another as traders, giving value for value.
"The Objectivist Ethics," The Virtue of Selfishness, 31
Had Corrie Ten Boom and others like her followed the dictates of Ms. Rand, that very, very, very interesting lady, there would have been no Shindlers and others like him. This is what Corrie Ten Boom did:
WW2 heroine and evangelist
Thanks to a tiny, concealed room in their modest house in central Haarlem, Corrie ten Boom and her family saved the lives of hundreds of Jews and other underground figures during the German occupation of Holland in WW2.
The ten Booms were by no means the only family to risk their lives in this way but Corrie was a deeply religious woman who later exported her brand of evangelism to the rest of the world, inspired by her wartime experiences.
http://www.haarlemshuffle.com/history/topic.php?id=31
Had she been a Rand clone, hundreds more would have perished. I guess the Ten Booms were educated fools in contrast the the Rand clones.
Never Again.
Posted by: WVH on May 4, 2008 11:06 AMIn the final analysis, labels aren't that important. To the victims of genocide, who have lost their lives, often by torture and mutilation, the term "evil" covers any political or theoretical persuasion bent on destroying the life of some fellow human who is different, solely because that fellow human is different.
Never forget.
Posted by: WVH on May 4, 2008 05:04 PMNo matter what our ideological differences, why shouldn't we all agree this chapter of our species' history was unacceptable and cannot be repeated?
Instead, this wrenching display of emotion and remembrance becomes one more schlock opportunity to bash our political opponents. And use the dead bodies of children to score political gain.
Shame on us.
Surely God himself must weep for his creation.