April 22, 2008
A Few Other PA Notes

Beyond the post below, a few nuggets from the Pennsylvania exit poll to consider:

1) Economy dwarfs Iraq. 55% of Democratic voters said the economy was their top concern versus only 27% citing Iraq. Some Democratic activists still hung up on "Bush" and "Iraq" might want to pay attention to that.

2) Obama, minus the new registrants, would have been absolutely crushed. 13% of today's Democratic voters were not registered Democrats in January. They went for Obama 62% -38%. Translation: Obama's strength among young and/or new voters could mitigate his problems with working class whites in a few key states come November.

3) The effect of Operation Chaos is unclear. Some Obama supporters claim the only reason Clinton keeps doing well in big states is because of Rush Limbaugh's efforts to encourage cross-over voting. Well, maybe the exit pollsters didn't get a good Republican sample (or those Republicans interviewed weren't 100% truthful), but what they did interview found 5% of Democratic voters were registered GOP in January. Those folks went for Obama 54% - 46%.

Posted by Eric Earling at April 22, 2008 08:13 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Go Hillary and the Democrat Party loses the 90% black vote they have enjoyed since ...forever almost. Even without 20% of the black vote locked up they are in desperate times on a national level. This is a black vs white thing for the Democrats. Go Obama and the blue collar vote bolts, for this election anyway. Obama is their only hope, but he is a lose canon. He cannot get the blue collar union vote in the numbers they absolutely need to be competitive. The blue collar union vote will recover, the black vote will not come back if they go with Hillary (or any white candidate). This election is untenable for them. What they need to do is minimize the future damage. The Democrat "smart money" knows this dynamic, but it is going to take some fancy footwork to avoid disaster here.

Posted by: JDH on April 22, 2008 08:23 PM
2. I gotta think Rush Limbaugh and his clan are dancing in the streets tonight. A ten point spread is the worst that could happen in this mess. It now means both camps will be forced into an internal blood feud, with the loser vowing revenge.

"I don't belong to any organized party, I'm a Democrat."

Posted by: Unkl Witz on April 22, 2008 08:37 PM
3. Yes, Operation Chaos is working, but in the end - will John S. McCain have the best chance against Barry H. Obama ?

It appears that this will be a Mexican standoff and not help Clinton that much, but she lives to "play another day". Looks like the blood letting will continue for a while longer.

Obama has slipped and his hope is in the young voters. However, it is a fact that he is less inspiring that he once was. His support is shallow and he has accumulated baggage along the way. His politics are apparently similar to George McGovern and Michael Dukakis. The younger generation of this increasingly ADD nation, who have seldom if ever experienced any character building hard-knocks in life could exercise their suspect judgment and elect this guy President. However, the odds are against the under 30 crowd having a profound affect on the General Election.

If Sen. Obama gets elected, it will profoundly demonstrate that we live in the age of stupidity and we collectively get who we deserve - the vermin of the mainstream media would hail this as a great moral victory at the expense of __________(fill in the blanks).

Posted by: KS on April 22, 2008 09:01 PM
4. Rush and "Operation chaos": 2
Hillary: 0
Barry: -2
______________________________

= Johnny in November 2008

Posted by: Rick D. on April 22, 2008 09:06 PM
5. That's part of it Unkl. The blood feud is going to be between the Obama crowd - Young college educated and PROGRESSIVE (as defined by themselves) and blacks. The Hillary partisans are also amped up, but not to quite the fever pitch that the Obama supporters are. The Party cannot afford to antagonize the black voters and their future activists (who are going to go ballistic should Obama not get the nod). The self described progressives have been hinting at riots if they don't get their way. Emotion drives them and that is another reason that Obama looses a General election big time if he is the candidate. As i said this is as classic a hoisting on one's own petard as I have ever seen a political Party get.

The situation is untenable and the Democrat "upper management" knows it. Not much sleep being had in Democrat Leadership Land.

Posted by: JDH on April 22, 2008 09:08 PM
6. Eric:

Yeah maybe the democrats should forget about "bush" & "iraq", but unfortunately for the Republicans "McCain" & "Economy" is just as strong of arguement against the republicans.

Posted by: Lysander on April 22, 2008 09:19 PM
7. as for #3...great theory....if it applied to Penn. Alas, they have a closed primary. Have to be a registered Dem to vote. Not sure that many Reps. are THAT desperate so as to change their party registration to keep Hillary in the race.

Posted by: Dave on April 22, 2008 09:42 PM
8. If it turns out that Rush and his inner-circle had a hand in this, it will go unnoticed (for now) but one day, history may well record, how a single person changed the US in an instant. GO RUSH!

Posted by: john Selle on April 22, 2008 09:48 PM
9. As mentioned above Pennsylvania is a closed primary.

Posted by: Don Ward on April 22, 2008 10:17 PM
10. All this means is that if this goes to the convention, it will likely be brokered and there is a real chance that neither Senator Clinton or Obama will head the top of the ticket if both of them are too wounded. Actually, that might not be a bad thing. There are real differences in how the two parties would govern. The superdelegates were created as a stop gap and they really aren't bound.

Posted by: WVH on April 22, 2008 11:00 PM
11. JDH,

The dems may or may not lose the Black vote. You have those in your party who think Little Black Sambo is a classic work of literature and all Blacks are either prostitutes or drug dealers. A lot depends on what Senator Obama does. If he is part of a brokered deal and is happy with it, then your candidate outreach team who, thinks Blacks are substandard and not human won't make much headway. A lot depends on what deals are offered to Senators Obama and Clinton if there is a brokered convention.

Posted by: WVH on April 22, 2008 11:06 PM
12. The Democrats are all sitting down to a nice dinner of crow about now. This is the party that has pandered to race and class for so long we've all forgotten their racist history. And now it's got them in quite a pickle. Democrats have managed to turn this nomination in to a high stakes race match.

We keep trying to tell them to let go of the racism and get on with the meritocracy, but they will have none of it. It's business as usual with the class warfare and selective racism.

It will be left to Republicans and the rest of non-racist America to elect a real post-racial black candidate at some point in the future. For now, the Democrats are not willing to let go, even if it costs them another election.

Posted by: Jeff B. on April 22, 2008 11:09 PM
13. Jeff B said this:

"We keep trying to tell them to let go of the racism and get on with the meritocracy, but they will have none of it. It's business as usual with the class warfare and selective racism."

Racism is not a province of only one party, race, religion, or creed. Racists come in all flavors. I suppose you missed the thread where a big supporter of Senator Mc Cain and Senator Rossi referred to Blacks as pimps or prostitutes. I suppose you missed the point that Little Black Sambo is a great work of literature?

There are bigots in both parties. Racism is not a function of political philosophy or lack of philosophy. There are principled conservatives whose only requirement for voting for a candidate is that person shares their values and beliefs, regardless of the race or religion of that person. There is also the David Duke variety of conservative who uses the label because if they come out as the racists that they are, they have no hope of participating in the political arena.

Sticking your head in the sand and pretending that it is only the dem party that is racist is one reason why republicans have a difficult time in moving beyond their rural and small town base.
I am awaiting how the tactic of calling all Blacks pimps and prositutes is going to win you more votes of any color.

Posted by: WVH on April 22, 2008 11:25 PM
14. A brockered convention will throw the Democrate party into "Chaos". Since a large percentage of Hillary's supporters are backing her because she is a woman, and a large percentage of Obama's support is because he is black, the only brockered candidate that can hope to please everyone is "Opra". Can't you just hear the crowd at the democrate convention squeeling like Opra's TV audience?

Posted by: Moondoggie on April 23, 2008 04:38 AM
15. I'm loving this navel-gazing adventure by the Bolshevik (Democrat in U.S.) party. Which political animal will arise out of the ashes to carry on the party of victims? Will it be the priveleged white woman or the priveleged black man? .....how will our victimocracy survive?

Perhaps a good read for all Democrats to read would be the book 'Animal Farm' where "all of the animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".
Orwell had it more correct than he could ever have imagined.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 05:49 AM
16. 'Double-digit' win! I rest my case. :)
Ain't this a wonderful country...I'm talking to YOU, Sen Obama?

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 05:57 AM
17. @ 16~ "Ain't this a wonderful country...I'm talking to YOU, Sen Obama?"

Good thing you directed that at Barry. If you had asked the question of his wife or/and pastor, you'd get a non politcal response of "No, it isn't!!"

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 06:02 AM
18. Good morning Ricky-Dee; how you doin this a.m.?
Didn't you just love Mrs Clinton's statement in regard to Iran: "We would be able to totally obliterate them.".
This woman is gettin kick-ass tough...in the same 'bring 'em on' way as your super-hero, Pres Bush.
Hang on my man...it ain't over yet! :)

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 06:30 AM
19. Morning Duffer. Doin' well and you?
Mrs. Clinton certainly is talking the talk, but she's also in desperation mode so the words ring a little hollow to most.
She's between Barack and a hard place and her only lifeline is the superdels. I do have to hand it to her that she's ready to debate Mr. Obama again and he aint' havin any of it. He'd rather curl up in a box marked "HOPE" and "CHANGE" with the instructions OPEN ONLY IN NOVEMBER.

To quote the great Yosemite Sam cartoon character "running away won't save ya!"

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 06:48 AM
20. Yeah, was sorry to hear that Sen Obama apparently will not agree to another debate...was probably Katie Couric's last chance to improve her ratings. :)

'She's between Barack and a hard place'

haha...good stuff; is that an 'original' ? :)

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 06:53 AM
21. Yes it is original content (at least to my knowledge). I'm surprised the vast number of talking heads haven't already used it by now.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 07:11 AM
22. @11 "If he is part of a brokered deal and is happy with it, then your candidate outreach team who, thinks Blacks are substandard and not human won't make much headway."

I beg your pardon, have you EVER ONE TIME heard me state that I am in favor of affirmative action? AND I am certainly not a Democrat.

Posted by: JDH on April 23, 2008 07:18 AM
23. Lysander#6 We have had a Democratic Congress for the last two years! What have they done??

Posted by: Yakima George on April 23, 2008 08:04 AM
24. Commanding General Limbaugh of Operation Chaos on deploying frontline troops gave specific orders on how to pass as Dems; to wit, no shaving,bathing or wedding ring, and claim to be an Obama supporter for "change".

The true effect of this is thus hidden from pollsters and the lib media. But Operation Chaos is triumphant again. On to the Indiana front!

Posted by: Steve007 on April 23, 2008 08:10 AM
25. JDH~ don't take the troll bait @ 11.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 08:16 AM
26. WVH#10,Why does the Democrat Party have superdelegates? The Democratic Party must think the average voter is not "bright" enough to vote for the "right" candidate.Superdelegates are the "hanging chad" of the Democratic Party.

Posted by: Yakima George on April 23, 2008 08:23 AM
27. WVH, you have those in your party who believe the Communist Manifesto is THE definitive political and literary work, while they count on furthering the stereotype that all Blacks are either prostitutes or drug dealers.

As Clinton and Obama deftly ginzu each other, chances for a democrat victory are reduced by the day.

I, for one, wasn't all that sure that democrats could screw this up so badly that the 08 election would turn into a punch line for Republicans, but the actions of your heroes and the despicable comments by those such as yourself make that outcome more likely every day.

Posted by: hinton on April 23, 2008 08:28 AM
28. @Steve007

It's comments like that that reinforce the perception that Limbaugh listeners are mindless robots. If you are going to follow politics, stay informed. Penn was a closed primary, so crossover voting would have been almost impossible to swing the vote since Reps would had to have registered as Dems to have voted. Pay attention. Stay informed.

Posted by: Dave on April 23, 2008 08:30 AM
29. JDH, Rick D, and Hinton,

1. JDH you are not the person who loves Sambo, Rags is.

2. Rick D, if there is a troll, it is all the supporters of David Duke, like you. You and your ilk are the reason that this state will remain one-party for the foreseeable future and the republican party is the party of small towns and rural areas. I know you agree with with Rags that all Blacks are pimps and prostitutes.

3. Hinton said this:

"WVH, you have those in your party who believe the Communist Manifesto is THE definitive political and literary work, while they count on furthering the stereotype that all Blacks are either prostitutes or drug dealers."

For SOME conservatives, the only response they EVER have on a comment about race is that the person commenting is something they hate or despise. No, I am neither a dem or pubbie as I think many in the leadership of both parties are idiots. Many voters seem to agree with me which is why there are so many indies. One of Senators Mc Cain and Rossi's biggest supporters, Rags was more than happy to make comments that Little Black Sambo is great literature and Blacks are pimps, prostitutes, and drug dealers. To his credit, the idiot said what many think. He gets points for honesty. I suppose, the party line is that those of color just are too stupid to know how great the republican party would be for them. Well, your voter outreach leaves a bit to be desired. People of all colors essentially want a decent life and decent government. Folks will never get to the details of what a particular candidate's program is if all that is seen as the face of your party is those who want Little Black Sambo read to every child.

You can't deal with the fact that the republican party has run on a Southern Strategy has its own collection of Robert Byrd clones. Anyone who points that out has to be a liberal, socialist, communist, or gasp, democrat. Right?

Posted by: WVH on April 23, 2008 09:20 AM
30. Democrats have been sewing the politics of envy, victimhood and entitlement and as part of their strategy for decades. The chickens have simply come home to roost.

So long as there was a Terry Mcauliffe at the controls the ship was able to navigate the very fine channel that this strategy required. The Party leadership is in the hands of the "progressive wing" now, the progressive wing is fixin' to throw a tempur tantrum if their guy, Obama, isn't the candidate in November.

With adult supervision, this would not have happened. This is their worst nightmare, it threatens to tear the Party assunder. The Democrat leadership isn't sleaping well at all.

Posted by: JDH on April 23, 2008 09:27 AM
31. I guess we're seeing Howard Dean's leadership capabilities. The good Dr. is nowhere to be found while his patient (The Democrat Party) is Hemorrhaging on the gurney. At his rate, they'll be DOA in November.

Paging Dr. Dean, Dr. Dean please report to Emergency STAT!!

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 09:45 AM
32. "Perhaps a good read for all Democrats to read would be the book 'Animal Farm' where "all of the animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"."

That would describe American politics in general, where the desire to rack up re-election money is placed before the interests of the voters the representatives they were selected to represent.

Posted by: Culture of Corruption on April 23, 2008 09:47 AM
33. WVH,

Shut up already.

Your race-baiting is tedious and tired.

Posted by: jimg on April 23, 2008 09:51 AM
34. 27% of the GOP Voters didn't vote for McCain. That's not inspiring.

Posted by: RobertSeattle on April 23, 2008 09:53 AM
35. Penn was a closed primary, so crossover voting would have been almost impossible to swing the vote since Reps would had to have registered as Dems to have voted.

TX was a closed primary as well, that did not stop Republicans from registering as Democrats as one voter put it "for one day only". With the GOP nominee all locked up, changing your party affiliation for a day is as simple as checking a box on a card and putting it in the mail.

Posted by: Cato on April 23, 2008 09:57 AM
36. 1. Regarding references to David Duke and KKK - David Duke is to Rev. Wright as Rev. Wright is to David Duke. At least Republicans have the guts to renounce Duke.

2. Neither Dem can win with elected votes. If there is a solution to Michigan and Florida I haven't heard it. The Democratic candidate will win only via Super Delegates. Now what was it the democrats had to say about Florida, the Supreme Court, and the LAST pres election??? Super Delegate is to Supreme Court as Supreme Court is to Super Delegate. (institutional hypocracy)

3. If I am a bitter Pennsylvanian, and I'm clinging to guns and religion as a result, does that mean that Obama thinks they are my narcotic pain-killer? Where do I recall the phrase "religion is the opiate of the masses"???

Democrats are toast. My favorite line from Planet of the Apes - "Ape killed ape!!!"

Posted by: Ubipetros on April 23, 2008 10:01 AM
37. JDH,

1. There is no perfect organization of any type. Both parties have had a sorry history on race politics.

2. Terry Mcauffile is scum just as Karl Rove is scum. They are cut from the same cloth. Both amoral seekers of power who once they get power have no clue what to do with it, other than retain power. Bush has not been able to slow the budget or government growth. I have never said Bush is an idiot, but I believe he will be ranked lower than his father on the success of his presidency, even though his father only had one term.

3. I believe that it is telling that Bill Ruckelshaus has endorsed Senator Obama in Indiana. He is of Watergate fame. Karl Rove, like Mc Auliffe of the dems wanted to pursue a "permanent majority" strategy which involves turning insitutions of government into partisan tools. Mc Auliffe would do the same thing were he to gain power again. They are both amoral.
Look into the following cases, they are telling about the dangers of amoral people in leadership of either party:

a. Rove's Lawyer Backtracks On Testimony Promise, Hints Rove Will Hide Behind Executive Privilege»
On April 7, Karl Rove's attorney Robert Luskin reportedly promised to MSNBC that, if subpoenaed, his client would testify in the case of former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman, who went to jail for corruption charges and now says Rove may have played a role in pushing a political prosecution. MSNBC's Dan Abrams reported:

ABRAMS: We asked this question to his attorney: Will Karl Rove agree to testify if Congress issues a subpoena to him as part of an investigation into the Siegelman case? The answer we got -- "Sure."

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/18/rove-lawyer-no-testify/

b. There is also the allegation of a partisan prosecution involving a judge in Mississippi. This is one comment on the Rove/Mc Auliffe style of politics:

A Letter to Karl Rove
Posted April 21, 2008 | 03:30 PM (EST)

April 21, 2008

Dear Mr. Rove:

"I write in response to your letter about my coverage of the Siegelman case -- a case we have been covering extensively. Its potential significance to the American justice system extends well beyond the halls of the Alabama Statehouse...."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-abrams/a-letter-to-karl-rove_b_97815.html

Amoral partisans of either the right or left are bad for this country.

Posted by: WVH on April 23, 2008 10:06 AM
38. Spot on WVH :)

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 10:10 AM
39. jimg said this:

"WVH,

Shut up already.

Your race-baiting is tedious and tired."

Posted by jimg at April 23, 2008 09:51 AM

1. Let's see, Rags, a fixture here says that Little Black Sambo is a classic and should be read to children. He says Blacks are pimps, prostitutes, and drug dealers. Of course, you would never be outraged by his statements because they are all true and not racebaiting, right?

2. This is what the libertarian party says about free speech:

"Against Censorship
We defend the rights of individuals to unrestricted freedom of speech, freedom of the press and the right of individuals to dissent from government itself. ...
We oppose any abridgment of the freedom of speech through government censorship, regulation or control of communications media, including, but not limited to, laws concerning:"

http://www.lp.org/issues/lp-blue-ribbon.shtml

3. Now, Ms Rand, that very, very, very interesting lady said this:

"The communists and the Nazis are merely two variants of the same evil notion: collectivism. But both should be free to speak--evil ideas are dangerous only by default of men advocating better ideas.

The Objectivist Calendar, June 1978"

So, if Ms. Rand would allow collectivists to speak, don't you think all ideas should be allowed in the market of ideas?

What are you afraid of, some folks might agree with me?

Posted by: WVH on April 23, 2008 10:19 AM
40. Yakima Dan,

I honestly don't know the party history of why the dems have superdelegates. Ivan is a party chair and maybe he knows. My best guess is to prevent another Mc Govern style rout. Ivan would be a better person to answer.

Posted by: WVH on April 23, 2008 10:22 AM
41. I think this is the spot in the thread where it gets destroyed by race baiters who liberally throw around the word "amoral" while exhibiting that very same amoral behavior in their posts.

Let the one song band play away......cue up the violin.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 10:29 AM
42. Ah, the victim speaks... I thought we lost you little black victim. You might want to check out Walter Williams latest commentary, sweet cheeks. Oh... I wonder, if a black man says something you don't like, is he also a racist?

In honor of you, little black victim, I ordered Little Black Sambo from the library... I got an email: ready to be picked up... and ! will as soon as I can!

I'm thrilled the Whorrabillary won! She is dauntless and will not give up - YIPPEE!

Go Whorrabullary go! All the way to August!

Barry O'Bitter can't speak without a cue card.. he stumbles and he fumbles.

Shrill vs Stumbles - what great entertainment!

Kisses, little black victim!

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 10:41 AM
43. Is that any way for a supposidly grown adult to refer to someone? I find that incredible.

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 10:46 AM
44. Is that any way for a supposidly grown adult to refer to someone? I find that incredible. -Posted by Duffman at April 23, 2008 10:46 AM

Which don't you like

Whorrabullary?
Barry O'Bitter?
Little black victim?

The problem you have is that I've explained the genesis of each and each has aptly and predictably lived down to their clever nicknames.

Oh by the way, have you the same issues when your side refers to the president as a nazi or a monkey? The Pope as a cult leader and serial child abuser? McCain as demented? Limbaugh as a drug addict? Conservatives as "bitter" and clinging to guns and God?

I am singularly unrepentant for immmensely enjoying myself and needling a few liberals as a bonus. I believe your heroine, Whorrabullary, recently repeated some advice: 'If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.'

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 10:55 AM
45.
Obama is in big trouble. He can't beat Hillary with charisma, even after outspending her 3-1 in PA,
he got crushed. And she's not well liked.

His base is too small and not expanding.

Posted by: Gary on April 23, 2008 11:00 AM
46. http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushmonkey1.htm

I've got one thing to say to you Duffnuts: Go pound sand! The link above is a series of photos comparing GWB to a chimpanzee, just think of the implications if it had been Barack Obama instead of GWB. Or how about the Oregon College that has a statue of a chimp with the face of GWB on it, how about we cobble one together with Obama's mug on it and place it RIGHT NEXT TO the statue of your hero VIL down in Freemont and see just how it is "just art?"

Posted by: JDH on April 23, 2008 11:08 AM
47. Looks like Ragnar is becoming the new PBJ. Though I'm pretty sure all the insults in #42 are plagiarized.

"His base is too small and not expanding."

Her base will vote likely vote Dem in the fall regardless of the chosen candidate. Just makes the Obama/Clinton ticket all the more likely.

Posted by: Religious Roots on April 23, 2008 11:11 AM
48. Here's what's coming out of art class at Linn-Benton Community College in Albany, Oregon:

Photo here - http://www.orbusmax.com/

What do you suppose would happen to the first aspiring artist daring enough to put Obama's face on a monkey? Fortunately, we'll never find out -- these days artists are known for their lockstep, left-liberal conformity, not their daring.

Posted by: JDH on April 23, 2008 11:13 AM
49. I was actually surprised to see Barry O'Bitter go after McCain in his Indiana victory...er kickoff speech last night.

His only problem is that he hasn't vanquished the shrill one. She and Monica's boyfriend will go after him and force him to respond to her. It will only escalate (Yippee!)... as it always does with the Clintons.

Whorrabullary has a shot if she can continue to force him to react extemporaneously. Barry O'Bitter can't collect a coherent thought without a teleprompter: "Just let me eat my waffle".... which is actually pretty funny when you remember Slick Willie was called often a 'waffler'!

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 11:14 AM
50. WVH, I had such high hopes for you, young grasshopper. I hope you aren't basing your governor and presidential vote based upon what Rags said?

I don't know what you did or said, or what he said or did that has caused this flareup, but please, don't vote just for that one reason.

Frankly, some of his comments have been a little over the edge, as has been the duffman. You did pick a difficult topic to champion and I am right there with you, but you, too, are sometimes difficult to understand.

I still think joining a Dennis Prager club would provide you with more challenging and satisfying debate (and it isn't just politics that he talks about).

I just don't like Obama because he is such a dweeb and so full of himself. Al Gore gets to me, as did Huckabee to provide a balance.

Posted by: swatter on April 23, 2008 11:18 AM
51. Little black victim "flares"... I simply enjoy the show... while fanning the flames. In typical knee-jerk fashion she falls for it every single time. I guess that old adage is true... old dogs CAN'T learn new tricks! Oh well, the old tricks remain entertaining!

Off to you, little black victim... do an Ed Sullivan and bring on a "really big show"!

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 11:24 AM
52. What is it about liberals?
Are they so threatened they see no option but to interfere?
Can they not stand on their own message that they must act to prevent any other?
Or are they simply haters led mindless like sheep?

America will be watching the counterpoint to August.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 11:42 AM
53. So, can't you be 'bigger'? ...and I have no 'side'; I don't like it by either 'side' done to another. I'm and independent who happens to like two Democrats this time around. :)

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 12:02 PM
54. Swatter,

I don't like the current leadership of either party and a one-party state serves no ones interest. Best example, Louisiana. Governor Jindal has his hands full trying to clean up generations of corruption from one-party politics and political dynasties. Yes, I am basing my vote for governor on the comments of a big supporter of Senator Rossi and the fact that the BIAW thugs investigate, attempt to harass and threaten those with contrary opinions. We have no perfect candidate in the race for governor, but at least Governor Gregoire's campaign doesn't need to investigate, threaten or harass opponents. Nor are they practicing Little Black Sambo politics. I certainly hope Senator Rossi campaigns with Rags at his side.

Right now, your party is based in small towns and rural areas. Demographics are not in your favor as the state urbanizes and becomes more diverse. Thinking people of all races do not feel it is appropriate to practice Little Black Sambo politics, as Rags does. He feel Blacks are pimps, prostitutes and drug dealers. That is the perception of many about your party. People will never get to a discussion of the issues as long as the perception of republicans is they ALL think that Blacks are pimps, prostitutes, or drug dealers. That is really too bad for both this state and country as one-party politics benefits no one.

Posted by: WVH on April 23, 2008 12:07 PM
55. Rags, BIG FAT old fart said this:

"52. What is it about liberals?
Are they so threatened they see no option but to interfere?
Can they not stand on their own message that they must act to prevent any other?
Or are they simply haters led mindless like sheep?

America will be watching the counterpoint to August.

Well, your voter outreach to expand the base of the republican party is going great guns. The Gregoire campaign would love to have you campaign side by side with Senator Rossi so that you can open your mouth and urge that every parent read Little Black Sambo to their kids and to state how Blacks are ALL pimps, prostitutes, and drug dealers.

Senator Rossi, a candidate that Rags finds in tune with his philosophy.

VOTE for Governor Gregoire.

Posted by: WVH on April 23, 2008 12:13 PM
56. I'm and independent -Posted by Duffman at April 23, 2008 12:02 PM

Are you?


Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 12:17 PM
57. Yeah, like a true independent needs to take a quiz to see if they really are? WOW, you're too much sometimes Rags! :)

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 12:22 PM
58. "...attempt to harass and threaten those with contrary opinions... but at least Governor Gregoire's campaign doesn't need to investigate, threaten or harass opponents."
Posted by WVH at April 23, 2008 12:07 PM

Posted by Gregoire supporter:
"...if there is a troll, it is all the supporters of David Duke, like you."
Posted by WVH at April 23, 2008 09:20 AM

The glass houses theory applies here.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 12:26 PM
59. WOW, think I'm staying out of this one.

Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on April 23, 2008 12:34 PM
60. Rags, BIG FAT old fart -Posted by WVH at April 23, 2008 12:13 PM

I wonder, little black victim, did your command of the language come with your PhD?

When you look in the mirror, little black victim, what distresses you more? The fact that evil white LIBERALS created affirmative action or knowing that it was necessary for your PhD?

As you so well immitate the Michelle the angry haridan, I'm betting on the latter.

Kisses, little black victim

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 12:38 PM
61. Man, I can't believe this...rags are you livin in the current century? :)

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 12:44 PM
62. I don't get it...if the economy is the most pressing issue, 54% of demo's say so. Why is it that the two companies that I Rep., located in Muncie Indiana, have over 30 open "UNION PAY" positions that they can not fill???

Can it be that the WELLFARE STATE pays better than a $20.00 an hour JOB!!!

Posted by: Pacific Grove Phlash on April 23, 2008 12:44 PM
63. Does living in "the current century?" include or disallow pointing out hypocrisy?... not that it actually matters a whit.

You must have missed my quoting your heroine quoting Truman: If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 12:48 PM
64. Also, Pacific Grove Phlash, have you seen the parking lots at malls and restaurants? Packed.

As are the highways, byways and airports. I flew (through crowded departure and destination airports) to my recent destination but road-tripped home through California. Even with gasoline over $4/gal there, people were traveling... Napa was packed... and even the back roads were crowded.

BTW, the cheapest gas of our trip was in Oregon.

I shopped in Oregon purposely to deny WA and chrissy's onerous taxes and leadership.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 12:54 PM
65. You really are FULL of yourself, aren't you; it's frickin amazing. :) ...enjoy the kitchen; it may get lonely.

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 12:55 PM
66. The way it stands today (using RCP numbers):
Obama: 1720 (304 away)
Clinton: 1590 (434 away)
Superdelegates still undecided: 301

My projection for upcoming delegate breakdown, based on latest polls or how neighboring states voted:
(Splits/Delegate breakdowns are Obama first and Clinton second)
Guam - 4 Delegates 50-50 split (2-2)
NC - 115 Delegates, 57-43 split (66-49)
IN - 72 Delegates, 52-48 split (37-35)
WV - 28 Delegates, 48-52 split (13-15)
OR - 52 Delegates, 60-40 split (36-16)
KY - 51 Delegates, 47-53 split (24-27)
PR - 55 Delegates, 52-48 split (29-26)
MT - 16 Delegates, 55-45 split (9-7)
SD - 15 Delegates, 55-45 split (8-7)
Totals: 408 (Obama: 224, Clinton: 184)

Projected Totals (excluding supers):
Obama 1944 (88 away - needs 29% of remaining superdelegates)
Clinton 1774 (250 away - needs 71% of remaining superdelegates)

So, the story line to watch is how many supers Obama gets between now and June 3rd. He could wrap it up on June 3rd without need of a superdelegate convention.

Posted by: tc on April 23, 2008 12:58 PM
67. #64 but of course you will pay a compensating 'use tax' on the value of those materials that you purchased in Oregon when you file your DOR Washington Sales tax - as the law requires, correct?

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 01:00 PM
68. You really are FULL of yourself -Posted by Duffman at April 23, 2008 12:55 PM

And there it is!

You just really can't stand someone sure of themself. Pride, confidence, not caring what others think nor needing their validation absolutely grates on you. I recently mentioned that when posting (under another psuedonym) at HA, someone excoriated me (in particular) and all conservatives (in general) for that very thing. How dare we know our mind? AND speak it?

What is it you are so afraid of?

In light of that, which of us is truly "independent"?

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 01:04 PM
69. From my sister: From a Danish associate:

'We in Denmark cannot figure out why you are even bothering to hold an election.'

'On one side, you have a bitch who is a lawyer, married to a lawyer, and a black lawyer who is married to a black bitch who is a lawyer.'

'On the other side, you have a true war hero married to a woman with a huge chest who owns a beer distributorship.'

'Is there really a contest here?'

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 01:08 PM
70. what happens tc, if, as expected, Clinton claims the popular vote victory and pushes the super-delegates hard because of it and/or refuses to go away.

If I understand it, which I make no claim to, many super-delegates are elected officials who will again have to face their voters.

A bad example (because he's like McDermott, a can't be vanquished zombie nightmare) but an example none the less would be Massachusetts. Clinton won the popular vote, but Kennedy is pledged to Obama. If she presses the fact of the popular vote Kennedy is in the uncomfortable position of defying "the will of the voters"

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 01:20 PM
71. "BTW, the cheapest gas of our trip was in Oregon." ~ Ragnar

Yes, that same Oregon where it's illegal to pump your own gas....

...unless it's the type of gas that assists you in killing yourself, which is legal.

Logic? where?

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 01:26 PM
72. #66. tc just curious - did you ever extrapolate how it would have totaled by now, assuming that the criteria was winner take all instead of proportionate?

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 02:15 PM
73. What's the matter Duffie. Rags getting to you?

Damn that kitchen. where is the heat knob.

LOL

Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on April 23, 2008 02:38 PM
74. Ragnar is a perpetrator of tax fraud!! =)

...unless it's the type of gas that assists you in killing yourself, which is legal.

I assume you mean the "death with dignity law" which
1) does not come in gas form and
2) you cannot implement without an attending physician.

The logic is clearly there...despite Ashcroft's desire to overturn the will of 60% of Oregon voters.

Posted by: Cato on April 23, 2008 02:42 PM
75. Hey duffie. Did our gov pay any sort of tax on her tour bus that came from Oregon instead of WA?

Just wondering.

turn that knob..

Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on April 23, 2008 02:42 PM
76. Did our gov pay any sort of tax on her tour bus that came from Oregon instead of WA?

Was it her tour bus or a rental? I'm guessing the later since bio-fuel buses are likely expensive and she won't need it after she wins the election.

Posted by: Cato on April 23, 2008 02:46 PM
77. Ragnar, I think in some of your comments you need to measure your words a bit more carefully. In those more extreme comments your words are starting to look a lot more like the threads at HorsesAss than here at SP. I this were a Jim Miller thread, I think he'd be deleting some of your comments. My .02 cents.


Posted by: Jeff B. on April 23, 2008 03:09 PM
78. Jeff, does it matter that I'm laughing as I skewer, lambaste and mock rampant and blatant hypocrisy?

It's a wonder to me that outright insult and personal attack (Rags, BIG FAT old fart -Posted by WVH at April 23, 2008 12:13 PM ) garners no comment but pointing out a double standard does.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 03:16 PM
79. Oh and in reference to the little black victims term of endearment...

Remind us, little black victim, what was it share croppers, poor little black children and rappers wore in their hair?

Oh that's right. RAGS.

I will wear it as a badge of honor.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 03:21 PM
80.
I've said this before and I think it's really true in Pennsylvania...Hillary and Obama are running for the nomination of two different parties both of which are sharing the banner of "Democrat".

Obama could (and should) take his constituency with him into a 3rd party. Hilly would be left with the detritus of the Democrats -- those over 60.

McCain and Obama would then fight for the center. Maybe a 4th candidate would run for the Social Conservative Party.

Eventually we'd turn into England and elect a Parliament who would wear white wigs.

Posted by: John Bailo on April 23, 2008 03:45 PM
81. Ragnar @70:
Hillary has no standing to raise the popular vote totals, unless she agrees to drop Michigan and Florida from the totals. Hillary has reneged on her stand prior to the primary season to abide by DNC rules for Michigan and Florida. They disobeyed the rules, and to change them after the fact would raise a huge fight. Additionally, Obama has the upper hand on the Credentials committe, since he has won a lot more states. So, this leaves us with popular vote totals, excluding Florida and Michigan (and not counting the people who voted in caucus states, like Washington, that didn't submit total people vote totals) with Obama having a 500,353 lead in popular vote (per RCP). With the states left, Hillary can't make even this metric up.

Duffman @72:
The quick answer is it doesn't matter what the Republican rules are because the game was set up the current way from the beginning. Everyone started with the same set of rules. It is only Hillary, now, that wants to change the rules because she isn't winning by them. She had her chance last year to state winner takes all when the DNC was drawing up the ground-rules and when states were deciding on their rules (e.g., whether to have caucus or primary). Hillary and her staff are being poor losers when wanting to change the rules after the fact. She is grasping at straws. If she thinks she can win, she needs to show it in the remaining primaries by winning most likely by a 70-75% margin to make of the gap in pledged delegates and popular vote total (excluding states that didn't abide by DNC rules and thus did not have real competitive primaries).

Posted by: tc on April 23, 2008 04:02 PM
82. No wonder Rush has always claimed "Talent on loan from god".

Posted by: FreedomLover on April 23, 2008 04:28 PM
83. No I, don't think it matters that you are laughing Ragnar. There's a point where the argument is lost in ad-hominem, regardless of your intended tone. And I don't think that's fair to your opponent, because it gives and undeserved pass.

And yes, I also condemn WVH's over the top comments.

I think we can stay within the realm of respectable discourse and still be quite pointed with our words. And it's just so much more effective and eloquent.

For example, you can say that she is using racism and appealing to victim politics as a defense, without calling her "a little black victim." There's a difference.

Posted by: Jeff B. on April 23, 2008 04:32 PM
84. I think it's safe to say that the Democrats are getting a wee bit nervous now with this latest PA development. As the chasm deepens between the two camps, so does the bitterness between the two candidates and I, for one, am loving it. I guess technically, they got the SPLIT ticket they wanted.....right down the center of the Democratic body politic.

Carry forth to Denver........Riot gear and all.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 04:37 PM
85. Ragnar @69:
The Danes are so astute.

As a black man, I liked Little Black Sambo. Too bad WVH (Wilda-beast) is uncomfortable with her race. Is she really 5 feet tall and 350 lbs?

Why haven't the three stooges, Duff(i.e., inferior/worthless)man, s(Cato)phile, and the Wilda-beast been captured yet? Perhaps we can lure and entrap them with a monosyllabic, gay Che film festival at their continuation high school.

Posted by: The Pirate on April 23, 2008 04:38 PM
86. Thanks for the explaination tc... I read somewhere today that the PA win gives Clinton a wedge to make a case with the superdelegates... whatever happens it will be fun to watch.

I stand by my assertion that Clinton will not go quietly into the night; that she and her surrogates will continue to needle Obama in attempt to force him to react and break his word on negative campaigning. That he withdrew from the NC debate will (and probably already has) be used against him loudly and often. PA was ugly... one might even say bitter, and it will only get worse from here.

In the meantime millions are being spent to fight amongst themselves and Howard Dean seems helpless/inept to stop it. The fight will go on, it will be costlier and nastier. The closer it gets to Denver in August the less chance Dean et al has for "healing" time for the party. The scary part for the Dems are the 19-24% of supporters for both candidates that claim they will NOT support the other.

Gonna be HOT in Denver!... could Humpty Dumpty possibly be the 2008 Democrat Convention mascot?

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 05:47 PM
87. Jeff @ 83... I neither give up nor give in. I say exactly what I mean and I give as good (or better) than I get. As my children will be glad to tell you, I do not now, nor have I ever, tolerated whining (victimhood) or lying... and the playing the guilt card is useless.

I am fully capable and willing to be respectful of those deserving of respect but I will not take their crap without reflecting it back at them in spades. If that doesn't fit the mold you want, so be it. I CHOOSE not to be walked on, even in the anonymity of a psuedonym in a blog and ignoring bad behaviour only gives encouragement to the perpetrators of it.... ask the "educator" {/snicker}.

Futhermore, outrageous absurdity is a great way to make a point.... mockery is just plain entertaining!

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 06:07 PM
88. OMG Rags..you're such a principled individual...NOT! You're 'holier than thou' attitude will likely come back to haunt you some day. In the meantime you can use it to stroke your ego...but in such a superficial manner. But it takes different strokes for different folks and if that's what you need...so be it. Good Luck to you...I shan't spend another ounce of energy even responding to you. You're way over the top DUDE, and sadly you don't even recognize it.
Lo siento mucho! Adios.

Posted by: Duffman on April 23, 2008 07:36 PM
89. Ragnar,

I think it's great that you don't back down. And mockery is a very effective tactic, I use it all the time myself. But there's a line when you cross over from mockery in to more vitriol. If you look at your posts over say that last year or so, the vitriol does seem to be escalating. I understand the frustration with WVH, she's like David Matthews in her dogged unwillingness to accept her loss of argument with her weak ideas. But I do think you've been in better, and more effective form in the past.

Cheers.

Posted by: Jeff B. on April 23, 2008 07:45 PM
90. I'll consider your remarks, Jeff.

I shan't spend another ounce of energy even responding to you. -Posted by Duffman at April 23, 2008 07:36 PM

We shall see what we shall see. It seems you've tried and failed at that "threat" in the past... how many times has it been now? Gosh, I seemed to have lost count!

I wonder, if I don't recognize it as a threat, is it much of one?

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 08:20 PM
91. All I know as that whenever it comes to "over the top" behavior and race baiting on the threads on this site, it usually begins and ends with the same 3 initials...WVH...her scorched earth policy is "support my guy or your a bigot" which is the ultimate in intellectual laziness. Throw a few 'Victim' bombs hither and yonder and ((poof!)), we're off topic discussing something other than the topic heading, usually with the "Chaos Queen" herself as the topic (@11 in this particular thread).

On topic though: I really feel very excited for McCains chances this year when I thought there was about only a 30% chance of retaining the White house 6 months ago. The Pennsylvania vote catapulted the Democratic race into a full blown 'Donnybrook'/ 'three ring circus' with neither side giving an inch.

BTW, Can we officially place Howard Dean's picture on the side of milk cartons? I've heard of the captain going down with the ship, but rarely do you hear of one retreating to his quarters for the night while his ship is taking on 100 gallons of water a minute. I guess the HMS Dean isn't up to sallying into port in November, which is just fine by me....America will be better off in the long run.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 08:30 PM
92. Rick, you'll probably interested in an article I just read in Time.

Earlier I mentioned the 19-24% of supporters for both candidates that claim they will NOT support the other. It seems I was off by a healthy 20%! Time claims 43% "of Clinton voters who say they would stay home or vote for McCain if Obama is the party's nominee in November."

Ouch!

I wonder if duffer is among that number.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 08:39 PM
93. Email this website to your friends & contribute!
www.exposeobama.com

Posted by: dude on April 23, 2008 08:44 PM
94. And Rich Galen is crowing about the possibilites!

" The Pennsylvania exit poll numbers I found most interesting last night tracked a Gallup poll from several weeks ago - that is the relatively huge numbers of Obama and Clinton supporters who told the pollsters they would not vote for the other candidate in November; they will stay home or vote for McCain. " From the AP:

The animosity between the two camps led more than one in seven Obama supporters to say they would vote for Republican John McCain if Clinton were the nominee. Even more Clinton supporters, one in four, said they would defect.
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 08:46 PM
95. Ragnar,
Thanks, I'll check that link out.
I've heard of the die-hards in both camps saying they won't vote for the other if one or the other doesn't get the nomination also, but it's a long time till November so I'm not going to assume this bitterness will last till November.
I put my money on the apathy of the American electorate that will lose steam by November along with the young voters, who while energized at the moment, will lose interest in politics and focus on the real important things in life like settling onto a couch and watching 'American Idol' or some other show on the telly.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 23, 2008 09:06 PM
96. Pirate from Pacific Beach (that great area of diversity), Rags, Stupid old BIG FAT fart, a term of endearment, Jeff B, Clueless as ever,

1. Pirate, you must be the only person of color within miles of Beach Beach. I suppose those tanning salons help, right?

2. Rags, do you have a picture of you and Senator Rossi and would you post it? You have been appointed to the steering committee, haven't you?
Senator Rossi would probably love to have all your great quotes as part of his campaign.

3. Jeff B, guess you haven't read all Ms. Rand's works. She was a fan of free speech, that libertarian thing, you know. David Mathews, really. You must be very insecure, you under 5 feet? Is a Napolean thing?

The only test that really counts is the test of the ballot. The libertarians couldn't get elected to the position of fly catcher, so they have to use the republican party as a host. Problem is the demographics of the state are changing and rural areas and small towns are shrinking. In the Yakima Valley and other wine producing areas of the state are attracting those priced out of Napa and Sonoma, they bring a different political vibe. Even Mercer Island is changing.

So, for you three trapped in at time warp who are yearning for the days of Plessy v. Ferguson, time is passing you by.

Somebody please send in a picture of Rags hugging Senator Rossi, I would love to go doorbelling with that and selected quotes.

Posted by: WVH on April 23, 2008 09:30 PM
97. If the Super Delegates Pick Hillary over Obama, which they will not do, (but Hillary would love to see), there would be rioting in the streets at at the convention.

At this point she is grasping at the straws of the very fabric of the Democratic party.

I don't think the superdelegates are that stupid, and expect to see them continue to come out of their shells for Obama over the next few weeks before their party implodes.

They don't want this to be a convention decision.

Posted by: GS on April 23, 2008 09:37 PM
98. Rags, Stupid old BIG FAT fart - Posted by WVH at April 23, 2008 09:30 PM

LBV, I champion and celebrate your right to say, write or type whatever puerile, hateful insult your "PhD" can conjure.
Go for it sweetcheeks.
Get those jollies where you can.

Rags sends KISSES, LBV

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 09:47 PM
99. Rags, Stupid old BIG FAT Fart,

Stop whining, it just a term of endearment. Oh, have you called Jenny yet? Now, if you have a photo of you hugging Senator Rossi, please post it as it will be useful in doorbelling. Your endearing comments and your picture hugging Senator Rossi will help get Governor Gregoire elected. So, a picture of you and Senator Rossi and the announcement of your appointment to his steering committee will help to endear both of you to the voters.

Posted by: WVH on April 23, 2008 10:13 PM
100. Oh I see, LBV... championing your free speech is whining now. Got it. Clearly your 'PhD' wasn't in logic.... or intelligent command of the language.

Rags, Stupid old BIG FAT Fart -
Posted by: WVH on April 18, 2008 10:23 AM
Posted by: WVH on April 17, 2008 10:06 PM
Posted by: WVH on April 17, 2008 04:04 PM
Posted by: WVH at April 23, 2008 12:13 PM
Posted by: WVH at April 23, 2008 09:30 PM
Posted by: WVH at April 23, 2008 10:13 PM

Oh, gosh, do we see a pattern emerging?

Tourettes Syndrome? 'PhD' in Pavlovian response... or a just another "Season of Peeves"?

" I am not offended by another's choice. "

"Shrug, Shrug."

Rags sends KISSES, LBV, and continues to champion your cherished right to emabarass yourself at will.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 23, 2008 11:45 PM
101. Rags, Stupid Old BIG FAT fart,

It's just a term of endearment. Oh, don't forget the picture, we want all your endearing comments with a picture of you and Senator Rossi and if you want, I can include your comments in the handout and my response to your endearing remarks. Rags, stupid old BIG FAT fart will be included with your review of Little Black Sambo and the fact that you think Blacks are pimps, prostitutes, and drug dealers. If nothing else, your handout should make doorbelling, fun.

On another more substantive note, what do you think about the Hon. Bill Ruckelshaus endorsing Senator Obama in the Indiana primary? What does some one like you call him, _______little victim or what?

Posted by: WVH on April 24, 2008 12:23 AM
102. Largely unreported is the fact that Ron Paul got 16% of the vote in PA.

I am looking forward to hearing his speech at the GOP convention.

Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on April 24, 2008 12:58 PM
103. Yakima George @ 23:

The democrat congress has not done anything to help but at least they did not expand government helath care like the Republicans did with the RX drug plan. Or pass unconstitutional limits to our freedom of speech like McCain Feingold.

I am not fan of democrats, my only point is the republicans are not offering us a better alternative (other than anti GOp establishment candidate Ron Paul).

Posted by: Lysander on April 24, 2008 05:52 PM
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