By now you've probably heard of the Popular Mechanics ranking of the Viaduct as the fifth most significant piece of infrastructure in the country "We Must Fix Now."
Via Postman, however, Dan Savage's take is of all things something which transcends partisan lines:
We won't do anything, of course, until it actually falls down and dozens of people are killed and injured. Until then, we'll shore up the damaged Alaskan Way Viaduct with Seattle-style process--i.e. hot air, non-binding votes, and dithering elected officials.
Agreement on the root of a problem ranging from an urban liberal with a penchant for being offensive to the conservative masses. Uh oh.
Posted by Eric Earling at April 09, 2008 07:26 AM | Email ThisWalk around any old brick bld and if you see bolts and flat pieces of metal bolted near the top of the roof area. Stay out of them, if your smart.
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on April 9, 2008 08:56 AMWhat you're seeing is hardware that ties the walls to the internal structure - absent from the original buildings.
Posted by: BA on April 9, 2008 09:35 AMI listen to those old farts; you know, the engineers that said a retrofit would solve the problem a lot cheaper, thank you, just as well as a rebuild.
Posted by: swatter on April 9, 2008 09:54 AMShouldn't she have just torn it down and then let the cards fall where they may (instead of the cars falling, that is).
Same with the 520. Regardless of what we do in the future, it's still a clear and present danger.
Quite frankly though -- it comes down to the individual. Anyone foolish enough to use the 520, or to take his family in car across it is inviting death and danger. Same with the Viaduct (and that includes walking or parking underneath it).
But, that doesn't concern me as much, since lately I have studiously avoided going to downtown Seattle and happily find entertainment in the hamlet of Kent...much nicer place I think...
So if they are so dangerous, why is the Queen not doing anything to push forward a fix?
Posted by: Melissa on April 9, 2008 10:07 AMHaving studied on this, neither is safe.
The plates are what I would called a half A** fix at best. It makes no difference if it's a rolling or a shear earthquake brick builds will fall!
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on April 9, 2008 10:20 AMI see, that's why it's backed up both ways every single day at rush hour? Looks like people of all races/incomes/genders are choosing not to live in fear of 520 sinking. =P
have avoided the AWV for years
I ran across it with a couple thousand other people on March 16th, seemed pretty stable to me.
No one is going to replace AWV until an earthquake happens and some people die. This way Gregoire/Rossi can declare a state of emergency, the US Govt. pays for a new AWV, the Wa. State taxpayers do not, everyone wins except the 30 or so people who died.
Oil prices go up = gas prices go up = people drive less = less revenue collected.
Where did that $265 mil go?
There was a lot of work done expanding 405 in the Bellevue to Bothell area. They stuck in a huge new bridge going over 405 in Bellevue. If you look around improvements are being made I doubt that accounts for the entire $265 mil but I bet there's a website somewhere that will let you to find out.
The problem with the 520/AWV projects lies with very wealthy NIBYS on both sides of 520 bridge, and lack of clear plan for AWV (not to mention the pointless vote).
The $265 mil was set aside to be used SPECIFICALLY for new boats, but once again our government chooses to tell us "this money will be used for this project if you pass this tax increase" then they choose to use it elsewhere and we end up with limited ferry service, roads ready to fall into the water and no plans in place yet for these things to be fixed, oh and we need more money for these projects because we allocated it elsewhere instead of where we said (lied) we would use it.
Posted by: Melissa on April 9, 2008 10:56 AMGOP mantra, every life is sacred, no matter the cost (unless you don't have health care, then you are just gaming the system).
Here is a plain an simple solution. Utilizes a Public/Private Partnership contract to replace the Viaduct with the Private enterprise floating the bonds and pay the Private enterprise with tolls charged on the highway that equal the costs of paying off the bonds. No State Money and the people who use it pay for it.
Can't be done? Well, it already has been done in this state. It is called the new (Gig Harbor) Narrows bridge (or Bob Oke Memorial bridge -- i.e., final name hasn't been selected yet).
Even better let the Peninsula Residents vote on the proposed tolls, or even the whole state. You see if the Peninsula can be stuck paying tolls on a bridge that they rejected (but passed due to the measures was put to vote over too broad a geographic base). If we have to pay tolls, then Seattlites need to buck it up too.
Posted by: tc on April 9, 2008 12:13 PMLiberal Mantra: Confuse the issue by ignoring "scale". It's just nonsense. There is a difference between ripping millions of unborn children out of the womb and spending $8 Billion on a viaduct to save 24 people.
Posted by: Scott on April 9, 2008 12:21 PMThen, you look around and look at the thousands of structures in existence in Seattle and assess the damage that would be caused by the design earthquake. Then, you will find that a couple dozen people will die in a smaller design shaker whereas there will be tens of thousands dying in other structures for that same shaker.
Hate to put a dollar tag on a human life, but Scott is right on with his reasoning.
Posted by: swatter on April 9, 2008 01:05 PMA decision is made as to what intensity of quake to design for - which is a compromise against the cost of addressing that quake.
A structure that can truly survive a very intense quake is unaffordable - Plus, the design intention might be to save lives (i.e. the structure stands up and people evacuate) and then the structure is torn down because it can't survive a second quake.
Shore up the viaduct (as is happening now in one area) replace what makes sense (like what is happening soon at the south end of it) - save the balance of the money and apply it to 520 where a combination of safety, and increased capacity, can be dealt with in one fell swoop.
Posted by: BA on April 9, 2008 01:20 PMThere is only ONE factor of concern.
The "inconvenience quotient". Or IQ.
Everyone is going to die. So death on the viaduct is not the main concern.
Sudden death is more inconvenient than gradual death. Let's give it an IQ of 10.
Twenty people will probably die if the viaduct comes down in a quake. That's 20 x 10 or 200.
The taxes, traffic delays and re-routing associated with the viaduct removal or re-build are kind of minor compared to sudden death. Let's give those concerns an IQ of 1.
It's said that 100,000 trips are made per day on the Viaduct. If the re-build occurs then we have 100,000 x 1.
The choice is clear. Leave the viaduct up until mother nature pays to take it down.
Personally I'd rather be taken out by a lightning strike than cancer, but glory for glory, an obituary that read "He was killed in the Alaskan Way Viaduct Collapse" reads pretty well.
Posted by: Bart Cannon on April 9, 2008 04:47 PM
Interesting "math".
Posted by: BA on April 9, 2008 05:01 PMWhat do climate models have to do with this discussion?
My commentary is half tongue in cheek and about the climate free viaduct.
For myself, I hope you don't review comedy OR climate models since the latter are pure humor.
Posted by: Bart Cannon on April 9, 2008 05:14 PMIt's time for CHANGE. Then we will have some HOPE of getting the viaduct replaced before it kills people.
Posted by: pbj on April 10, 2008 11:46 AMInstead they are sanding it in April
I just can't take all this Global warming, I'm going to have to have an AC unit installed on my bicycle.
Posted by: GS on April 10, 2008 09:06 PMSo after 7 years, theyt have "scheduled" construction to being in 2012 and it will take 6 years. So for 4 years the viaduct will be used and people will be at risk. Hardly the priority the DOT said it was when they robbed our pockets for the gas tax.
Posted by: pbj on April 11, 2008 01:30 PM