April 08, 2008
Another Poll, Another Toss-up - UPDATED

Survey USA is the latest to show a dead heat in the Governor's race (Rasmussen Reports having done likewise as of late).

While it is yet early, some of the crosstabs** from this latest poll are interesting:

A big gender gap afflicts both candidates. Rossi leads among men 56% - 38%, while Gregoire holds the advantage among women 57% - 39%.

Working families remain on edge. Rossi runs best in the 35-49 age group, holding a 52% - 42% lead. Likely translation: younger families with kids remain restive about the status quo, a theme trickling over from local 2007 electoral results.

Rossi has broadened his base better than Gregoire. He holds self-identified Republicans 92% - 7% while winning Independents 50% - 40%. In contrast, she bleeds more of her base, winning amongst Democrats 80% - 18%, yet is saved by those voters constituting 40% of the electorate versus 25% Independents and 24% Republicans.

The Cascade Curtain has a predictable effect. Gregoire up, though only narrowly, 50% - 45% on the West side. Rossi up 58% - 39% on the East.

To be fair, the sub-group sizes are small so not too much should be read into them. Nonetheless it sets some tangible markers of where each side has work to do in this unique race, which is so atypical of standard Evergreen State contests.

**Note the poll methodology that sampled just registered voters rather than likely voters. Such a less restrictive screen tends to favor the Democratic candidate, for what that's worth.

UPDATE: Methow Ken at comment #28 notes that the Survey USA write-up of their poll says Gregoire lead Independents by 10, not Rossi. That's a typo in their summary. Their data shows Rossi by 10 in the actual crosstabs of the poll. Moreover, based on the party affiliation breakdown - with a heavy Democratic tilt - Gregoire would have a large overall lead if she had an advantage among Independents as well as Democrats in the poll. But she doesn't, so she doesn't.

Posted by Eric Earling at April 08, 2008 10:04 PM | Email This
Comments
1. It is still early and I know that there will probably be weekly pools. Here is another result:

Democrats Gaining Strength in Washington State By Rachel Kapochunas, CQ Staff
Wed Apr 2, 1:58 PM ET

Democrats in the state of Washington are increasingly better positioned to keep the Governor's mansion and to take over a key House district in the state's most competitive contests this election cycle.

Gov. Christine Gregoire and 8th District candidate Darcy Burner came within a razor‑thin edge of their opponents in their last contests. But analysts now say that the Democrats have upped their chancing of winning as the state GOP party faces structural problems and GOP efforts to appeal to the state's large number of moderate voters has been hampered by their strong conservative base.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cq/20080402/pl_cq_politics/politics2695900&printer=1

Let the battle of the polls begin until we reach November and the only poll that really counts

Posted by: WVH on April 8, 2008 10:38 PM
2. There will probably be weekly pools on which candidate will win and weekly polls conducted by everyone. The UW Washington poll is nonpartisan.

Posted by: WVH on April 8, 2008 10:40 PM
3. Where are the numbers on the voting of dead people, and altered ballots?

Posted by: Independent Voter on April 9, 2008 05:08 AM
4. IV @ 3:

....and don't forget felons, illegal aliens and double voters! In any event, I'm certain the Seattle leftists who count ballots for King County Elections can guarantee however many "votes" it will take to re-elect their queen.

Posted by: Saltherring on April 9, 2008 05:27 AM
5. Polls, shmolls...this election's demographics will most certainly be Democratic, but DO go ahead with your wishful thinking and discuss amongst yourselves. [That will help ease your pain]...haha.

Posted by: Duffman on April 9, 2008 05:52 AM
6. This publication stated:
"It is estimated there are a couple of thousand online gamblers residing in the State of Washington, all of whom could be convicted of a Class C felony (think child predator or DWI third offense)."

Making someone playing a hand of poker on their computer in the comfort of their home equivelent to a child molester is sure to get some if not all of those "on-line degenerate" gamblers to the polls, and thus putting a qualified Governor Dino Rossi back into the position that he legitimately won in 2004.

God save the Queen...to hell with Christine.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 9, 2008 06:06 AM
7. Duffie
That will help ease your pain]...haha
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

O-you mean that pain of watching Billary lose BIG TIME! LOL.
Can I get you a towel buddy, your going to need it.

Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on April 9, 2008 06:19 AM
8. Aaaah AM/V, always nice to hear from you. Please make note of the fact that 'it ain't over yet' - she's been counted out before. Who do you suppose has 'command' of the super dels? Who do you think might be 'beholding' to her? As I say...fat lady has not sung yet by any stretch. If she can somehow get even a 'slight' popular vote lead...that's all the ammunition she will need. :)

Posted by: Duffman on April 9, 2008 06:28 AM
9. WASL test for Duffman and other assorted libnuts:

Which one of the following wouldn't be a Class C Felony in Washington State if they had a sane Governor?

A: child pornographers
B: repeat drunk drivers
C: drug dealers
D: poker players

=)

Posted by: Rick D. on April 9, 2008 06:33 AM
10. Ummmmm, let me see....c/it be posters with the moniker 'Rick D' ?

...have a 'hang-up' for on-line poker there Rick?

Posted by: Duffman on April 9, 2008 06:37 AM
11. Wrong on all counts Duffman. I just don't like criminal enterprises taking out their competition.

Who's controls the Washington state Lottery?
Chris Gregoire

Who receives campaign contributions from Tribal Casinos?
Chris Gregoire

Gregoire went after the only gambling outlet that she didn't have a direct monetary stake in. A little consistency would be nice don't you think Duffer?
Christine is either schizophrenic or protecting her own assets.


As for Hillary, if you were a compassionate liberal, you'd recognize she's in pain on that campaign life support system.......Don't you think it's time to pull the plug?

Posted by: Rick D. on April 9, 2008 06:46 AM
12. 'Who's controls the Washington state Lottery?'
Ans: Voters of the State of Washington
................................................

'Who receives campaign contributions from Tribal Casinos?'
Ans: All candidates.
................................................
'As for Hillary, if you were a compassionate liberal, you'd recognize she's in pain on that campaign life support system.......Don't you think it's time to pull the plug?'
Ans: NO [I believe in the 'right to wife']

Posted by: Duffman on April 9, 2008 06:53 AM
13. Thanks for the update, Eric.

Wasn't Bush up 65-35 or some other unreasonable number about this time in '00?

Things will tighten up. While supposedly "nonpartisan", WVH, I hardly figure anything from a college to be non-partisan and that goes for my alma mater.

Posted by: swatter on April 9, 2008 06:58 AM
14. 'Who's controls the Washington state Lottery?'
Ans: Voters of the State of Washington

Voters? not according to the WA state lottery page

'Who receives campaign contributions from Tribal Casinos?'
Ans: All candidates.

But Christine gave a quid pro quo to the Tribal casino's which contributed more to her campaign than others.

Couldn't help but notice you couldn't answer the question @9 Duffer. Not enough choices?


As for Hillary, don't worry.....The Democratic party will pull the plug soon enough and send that lamb Obama to the slaughter in November. Put your Pom Pom's away for another 4 years.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 9, 2008 07:17 AM
15. Hey, Duffman, now that you've mentioned Hellary, Camille Paglia has written an article called "Hillary's slick willies" where she goes into depth describing the type of "men" Hellary surrounds herself with. One paragraph reads as follows,

"The men you always see under her are to a person passive-aggressive, sadistic, mean, little, petty beta-male pieces of work who would not naturally succeed in a common male-type hierarchy. By that I mean an environment that values straightforward achievement rather than the darker political arts."

Does this describe you? I've often wonder how any self-respecting male could subject himself to being an underling to a petty, ranting, vindictive, venomous rag like Hellary. Most men would (or already have) run through a gauntlet of stinging nettles and poison ivy to escape such fate. Just curious....

Posted by: Saltherring on April 9, 2008 07:30 AM
16. Oh, thank you Sir 'may I have another'!

...nice to see that you and your quoted author are the apparent 'be all, know all' authorities; is there no end to your acute wisdom. :)

Posted by: Duffman on April 9, 2008 07:36 AM
17. After researching Dino Rossi a little bit, I regret to say that I'm very hesitant to vote for him.

Here's why.

First, his "Case for Change", which is strikingly similar to a certain Senator's case, in that it calls for change, points a lot of fingers, and doesn't offer any solutions. Before pudge or eric calls me a liar, please see http://www.dinorossi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=75&Itemid=36

Second, if you look closer at his 'case for change', you will note that at least some of his solutions are more of the same Democrat nanny state sort of thing that we profess to despise. For example:

"Too many innocent children have fallen through the cracks of Gregoire’s Department of Social and Health Services (DSHS). Children are dying, being sexually abused and tortured because of the lack of state oversight."

This concerns me because he apparently supports more state oversight of... I'm not sure what, since it could be read several ways. More state oversight of DSHS? So will we add another bloated agency to oversee the welfare agency? Or will we add more state oversight over private citizens to help prevent children dying, being sexually abused and tortured? I don't like the answer to either and don't believe it follows the Republican platform of limited government. (http://www.kcgop.org/documents/KCGOP_Platform_2006.pdf)

The same argument as above is used to support things like that recent failed attempt at a law that allows the police to search your home for firearms if you have children - 'for the children'. I don't appreciate appeals to emotion like that, and I don't like where they lead.

The whole case for change page is full of things like this that deeply concern me.

Moving on, we next address his public safety section, under 'issues' on his website. ( http://www.dinorossi.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=37 )


From that page...

"I believe you should feel safe in your community, and our state must drastically improve the way it protects people. We must keep violent felons off the street, give law enforcement the tools they need to succeed and protect our children from sex offenders."

I believe that the responsibility for self defense - both legally per the Supreme Court, and morally, lies with each of us. That's why I own a firearm and support the section of the Republican platform that says:

"Both the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of
Washington protect the right of each individual citizen to possess firearms;"

I do not wish the state to keep me safe. True 'safety' always truncates liberty, because this brand of safety requires less privacy and more rules.

I also don't agree with his stance on sex offenders, although I don't expect much sympathy from soundpolitics.com on this. My reasoning is simple here - If you do something wrong, you should face the consequences. However, if someone goes to prison for a given term, they have done their time. The argument to brand them with the legal scarlet letter of a sex offender because they are likely to offend again is troubling to me, because you are punishing them for what they might do, not what they have done. Furthermore, it prevents them from re-entering society as a productive member because it will be difficult to even find a decent job with such a tag on your background check.

I know that the sentiment here is 'if you don't like it, you shouldn't have offended in the first place', but that doesn't change the fact that you can write these people off and have them turn to crime to support themselves or rehabilitate them and not have them turn to crime. Gotta consider the big picture there.

Moving on, my next concern is with his stance on education.

"One-third of our public school students are in districts that do not teach a full 180-day school year. I will change that."

Having grown up in a homeschool environment, which I believe gives me a somewhat unique view, I believe the answer to our educational problems is not a longer school year. We need to make our education system performance based, not time based, and more time isn't going to change the fundamental problems that it has now. In fact, it merely puts the children of our state in state custody for that much more of their lives, learning poor habits from their peers and learning more socialist hogwash from their teachers.

That's not reason enough to not vote for him, though, personally - it merely adds to my disdain for this highly respected Republican that doesn't really adhere to Republican ideals when you examine his stance more closely.

As for stopping dropouts from highschool - I believe we'd be much better off focusing our efforts on those who actually want to learn than those who choose not to learn.

When it comes to transportation, sure, I want a shorter commute. I live 40 miles from downtown Seattle and commute it every day. My GTO has ended up garaged because the bus is actually a better option given the cost of fuel and maintenance.

All that said, he offers no actual solutions there. Just that he'll make a decision and work to improve it. I'd love to know how he's going to do any of this while being fiscally responsible unless we're going to be introduced to toll roads (not just bridges) in Seattle. If that's his solution, then I'd love to hear that too, but instead his platform is once again "change".

On a completely unimportant note, his website kinda sucks, too. Click on the issues tab and then mouseover the other tabs. Hopefully that was volunteer work. But at least it's still running, unlike the Snohomish County GOP site, I guess.

Anyway, this post isn't going to change the fact that soundpolitics.com will continue to profess their undying love for the man, and that selective polls will be posted that have him winning or in a dead heat continually, much like any good Ron Paul site pre-primary, but hopefully at least some people will consider that maybe a closer look is warranted, and that maybe this guy is running on a platform of "I'm not Gregoire".

By the way, even though I'm beginning to dislike him more and more as I learn about him, there are many things that I do agree with him on, but they are less material in the context of this post, and his plan to implement them seems lacking detail in most cases.


Posted by: Andrew Brown on April 9, 2008 07:46 AM
18. Duffman,

I'm not picking on you, personally, just can't contemplate why any man would want to subjet himself to Hellary and her ilk. Did your mother not spank you enough when you were a child? We need to get to the bottom of this. I am concerned for you.

Posted by: Saltherring on April 9, 2008 07:48 AM
19. Genuinely appreciate your concern there s/herring. 'Did your mother not spank you enough when you were a child? We need to get to the bottom of this.' :) very good 'play on words' there s/h 'spank/bottom'...haha
Actually if she didn't (spank me enough) I'm positive the Nuns in school did. I'm getting the feeling you might be afraid of 'strong women' with conviction, passion and determination...Hmmmm may be time to analyze your past inadequacies...

Posted by: Duffman on April 9, 2008 08:02 AM
20. Duffman's statement that the Tribes give money to ALL candidates is the foolish, and pretty much sums up his contribution to this site.

Posted by: Moondoggie on April 9, 2008 08:11 AM
21. Duffman,

I am not afraid of women with "conviction, passion and determination", just those who desire power at all costs, and of course, what they would do when harnessed with that power.

I do admire and respect conservative women such as Condi Rice, Elizabeth Dole, Lynn Cheyney, etc.

Posted by: Saltherring on April 9, 2008 08:14 AM
22. #20 you're a bit of a dolt.
#21: sorry to hear that.

Posted by: Duffman on April 9, 2008 08:31 AM
23. Swatter,

1. What's the matter, upset because Duffman is correct that the demographics favor Governor Gregoire. Most of the population is in urban areas around Puget Sound. People in urban areas as opposed to those in rural areas and small towns have to confront issues of density and the fact that they have to live in proximity to all kinds of people. Most people in urban areas, no matter their party affliation don't want a government controled by racist thugs. I hope people sent the BIAW article on Nazi envios to every one they could think of.

2. The demographics of Pugetopolis do not favor the republican party in its current configuration. The fact that formerly rural areas are becoming more densely populated often leads to clashes like this:

By ALLEN SCHAUFFLER / KING 5 News


Video: Graffiti vandals go on bizarre rampage in Arlington
Larger screen E-mail this clip

ARLINGTON, Wash. - Cars, homes and even a school were targeted in a hateful graffiti rampage, insulting to religion, individuals, and an entire community.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_040808WAB_arlington_vandals_KC.46a553da.html

Some of the graffiti included Nazi symbols. The question is which candidate is the best person to stand up and say that Nazi symbols are wrong. Governor Gregoire, of course.

3. This is the defintion of nonpartisan:

a person who is nonpartisan
free from party affiliation or bias
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

I don't belong to either party and will vote for a quality candidate of either party.

What I believe is that Governor Gregoire is the best candidate to govern ALL people and to keep a group of racist thugs out of state government.

Posted by: WVH on April 9, 2008 08:42 AM
24. The CQ Article in the post above is based entirely on the Washington Poll and the UW Assistant Professor behind it--who, if I read his online CV correctly, was an undergraduate at Eastern New Mexico State U. six years ago.

The poll it took in January showing a 10-12% lead for CG was a subsample resurvey of its Nov. poll showing a closer race. It was off--biased towards the pro-tax side--in last November's ballot measures.

Looking at the academics involved in it, the poll appears to be run by left-of-center academics--one contributed to uberliberal Hans Dunshee. CQ errored in relying only this poll to move the rating of both the WA Gov race and CD 8.

Duffman reminds me of the academics and New York liberals who couldn't believe Nixon beat McGovern because all of their friends were for McGovern. He loves to remind us of how enlightened he is and benighted we are. Quel ane arrogant!

Duffman may think he knows the future and think that Washington is a one-party state. It isn't. The race is 50-50 and only a minority here are Democrats, a smaller minority Republicans and probably a plurality Independents. I don't really have any idea how this year's election will turn out. No one does, not even Duffman.

Posted by: besquared on April 9, 2008 08:48 AM
25. besquared,

The only poll that ever counts in the one on election day. The demographics of this state have changed in the four years since the last election and Governor Gregoire is running as an incumbent, there is no open seat. So, all of us can theorize all we want to. Here is my theory, Governor Gregoire will win with a comfortable margin. Election day will prove one of us right.

Posted by: WVH on April 9, 2008 08:52 AM
26. May be 2 of is, WVH! ;)

Posted by: Duffman on April 9, 2008 08:56 AM
27. Think about this--
How many folks who voted for Rossi last time are voting for Gregoire this time?
ANSWER: Almost ZERO

How many folks who voted for Gregoire last time are voting for Rossi this time?
ANSWER: Lots

Why?
1) Gregoire has spent us to the doorstep of a massive projected multi-billion dollar Budget deficit...by her own admission!
2) She has done nothing to improve DSHS.
3) She has done nothing to get things built and ignored her responsibilities regarging the Washington State Ferry's until a crisis hit.
Management by crisis??
4) Her "cut" of 1000 middle-managers was a flim-flam where she counted retirees and she merely started calling "middle-managers" something else. She added significant # of State employees.

Her list of incompetence goes on & on...just like her track record as Attorney General.

Gregoire has a track record she must defend.
She will be on the defensive.
Attacking Rossi not the answer for her.
She must defend her actions and inactions.
Having lots of meetings isn't action.

Gregoire==
Consistently mistakes costly MOTION for ACTION!!!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on April 9, 2008 09:01 AM
28. Eric,

In your thread start you said:

''Rossi has broadened his base better than Gregoire. He holds self-identified Republicans 92% - 7% while winning Independents 50% - 40%."

BUT: In both your first ''latest to show a dead heat'' link and the ''crosstabs**'' link it sez:

''Independents favor Gregoire by 10 points.''

I would guess there might have been a typo in one of those Poll #13672 links that has been corrected; or you have a typo. :-]

Also of significant interest to me from this poll, as a resident of the Inland Empire:

''Gregoire leads by 5 in Western Washington; Rossi by 9 in the Eastern portion of the state.''

Looks like we better get to work:
SURELY we can do better than ''Dino up by 9'' in eastern WA: There just CAN'T be that many left-wing, eco-extremist, big-government socialist liberals on this side of the Cascade Crest (I sure hope).

Posted by: Methow Ken on April 9, 2008 09:02 AM
29. Excellent points by Mr. Cynical in 27.

Posted by: Methow Ken on April 9, 2008 09:05 AM
30. Duffman,

If we are the two votes that put Governor Gregoire over the top and keep a group of racist thugs out of state government. I, for one, am honored. Methow Ken is correct, we need boots on the ground as they say and this really is about politics 101 of getting out the vote. I hope folks volunteer to work for the current and FUTURE Governor, Christine Gregoire.

Posted by: WVH on April 9, 2008 09:07 AM
31. Political trends are not straight-line projections into the future. Yeah, there has been a Democrat tide in the last 10 years. The State has grown, but other than being a bit more Hispanic than it was ten years ago (and BTW, for some reason Hispanics here are more Republican than all the other states but FL, TX, and OK), the demographics haven't changed. Bush was unpopular in '04 here and maybe more so today. But Bush will not be running. Oh, the Rasmussen Poll has Obama by 5% and SUSA has him by 7%. Gee that was Gore's 2000 margin and Kerry's 2004 margin. Those polls look pretty good to me.

The other thing to look at is that Gregoire is not a terribly unpopular Governor--her approval numbers are around 50% or a little higher. Yet Rossi is even with her. What do you make of that? Could it be they like Rossi too and maybe some who might otherwose vote for her think Rossi got cheated and want to settle that?

And we haven't talked about her record yet.

WVH, you show your colors by your "racist thug" statement. It's unfortunate that those on the Left engage in baseless, ad hominem attacks. Do you believe that those on your right are either stupid or immoral or both?

Have a nice day.

Posted by: besquared on April 9, 2008 09:10 AM
32. besquared:

You said this:

"WVH, you show your colors by your "racist thug" statement. It's unfortunate that those on the Left engage in baseless, ad hominem attacks. Do you believe that those on your right are either stupid or immoral or both?"

Maybe you should review some of the other threads.
The best recruiting tool that the democratic party has are the comments from many of the conservative libertarian posters here. I suggest you scroll down a few threads to Eric's post on the BIAW article on Nazi envrios.

There are some principled conservatives who post here. They are conservative in philopsophy, but would never think to treat some one unfairly because of race or religion. There are some people who claim the conservative mantel who are racists masquerading as republicans. There is a world of difference between Jack Kemp and David Duke.

The article said this:

"But analysts now say that the Democrats have upped their chancing of winning as the state GOP party faces structural problems and GOP efforts to appeal to the state's large number of moderate voters has been hampered by their strong conservative base."

1. The deomgraphics of this state are changing and it is urbanizing, particularly around Puget Sound,

2. Just shouting liberal or socialist to describe any one who disagree with you is not going to cut it.

3. There is a strain of David Duke conservative libertarianism that is trying to take over the republican party because they cannot get elected as libertarians

In my opinion, this election is about keeping racist thugs out of state government. I respect Jack Kemp, I have no respect for David Duke and those who follow and are like him.


Posted by: WVH on April 9, 2008 09:21 AM
33. I have no respect or use for David Duke either. But I really haven't seen a lot of people like that in the GOP either.

The Republican Party has moved quite a bit to the center in the last few years as evidenced by McCain winning the GOP nomination. The Democratic Party has moved quite a bit to the Left. Their 2000 Vice Presidential nominee couldn't even get renominated to the Senate!

I think the problem with the Democrats is the DailyKos netroots types. I recommend you read the book The Argument by Matt Bai--a New York Times reporter normally sympathetic to the Democrats. But reading it you get the impression that he doesn't think much of the Netroots.

By the way, I vote Republican mostly because they are not the Democrats. The R's have let me down too but the D's are worse. And I don't embrace the label "conservative". I'm a classical liberal--free people and free markets.

Posted by: besquared on April 9, 2008 09:32 AM
34. besquared,

If you are a principled conservative, I have no problem with you. We might disgree on an issue or two, but those are disgreements on issues. I prefer the Jack Kemp style of republicans. The republican party in this state is simply not competitive and I expect that at some point, there will have to be a split of some sort.

Urban environments require a different type of candidate than the type of candidate who can get through the current republican party process. This state would benefit from having two strong parties.

Posted by: WVH on April 9, 2008 09:39 AM
35. No problem WVH. I just don't trust polls this early in the cycle. I thought that was my post?

Andrew, please break up your comments. After the DSHS comment, I didn't read the rest of your lengthy post. I disagree with the DSHS comment. If kids are being abused, assaulted and raped, they need to be taken care of. From Rossi's statement, I didn't see where you took Rossi's position to mean another bloated agency. I think, perhaps, you are projecting too far out.

Posted by: swatter on April 9, 2008 10:03 AM
36. Swatter,

I don't trust polls either. I want all of us to work hard for the candidate of our choice. I want whatever election problems there are to be fixed. I want the next Governor, I believe it will be Governor Gregoire, to be elected fair and square and because their peeps worked their butts off to get them there. At this particular juncture, we all just need to get out and support our candidate.

Posted by: WVH on April 9, 2008 10:13 AM
37. If we are the two votes that put Governor Gregoire over the top and keep a group of racist thugs out of state government. - WVH

You should be banned from this site for making such an outrageous statement.

Posted by: jimg on April 9, 2008 10:20 AM
38. Jimg,

I have been BANNED by pudge. So, that is the answer for you conservative libertarians, BAN everyone who disagrees with you, right? I imagine that David Duke would like to have folks like me permanently BANNED, its called the final solution. Bet you support that, don't you?

Posted by: WVH on April 9, 2008 11:03 AM
39. #39 Yeah, the banning thing I don't understand; especially from someone like Pudge, for whom I have great respect (despite his Politics) :)

Posted by: Duffman on April 9, 2008 11:56 AM
40. Mr. Cynical @ 27,

How many new voters that weren't able to vote for either Rossi or Gregoire last time are going to vote for Rossi in the next election (I'd guess most are Dems)?

How many voters that did vote for Rossi or Gregoire last time, won't vote for either this time (I'd guess most that retired elsewhere or passed away were Reps)?

As close as the election was last time around, these numbers alone could make the difference in who gets elected in November.

Posted by: Smoley on April 9, 2008 03:59 PM
41. @ 34- "The republican party in this state is simply not competitive and I expect that at some point, there will have to be a split of some sort."

If you think that is fact and not your own version of distorted reality, you need your head examined. I don't think most GOP'ers here would consider the Republican party as splitting anytime soon, but thanks for your two cents worth. Unfortunately, that's about all your particular opinion is worth. On second thought, here's a penny back as change.


Posted by: Rick D. on April 9, 2008 04:10 PM
42. Yeh Gregoire is just beaming with a whopping 1% lead in a highly blue state. That kind of lead in this state either proves she is not terribly popular, or that you're blue state is not terribly blue with regards to Gregoire.

After four years of her mismanagement, massive and continual over-regulation, tax and fee rip off schemes by the 100's of Billions, a complete and total disregard for the initiative process and the views of the voters in this state.

I wouldn't be suprised to see Dean Logan back here by November!


Posted by: gs on April 9, 2008 05:58 PM
43. It has been interesting to watch posters here decide who is a "conservative" or who is a "republican." Some here have indicated that in their political thought process, they don't consider Senator Mc Cain conservative enough. I believe that some felt Governor Romney was too liberal on health care, for example.

Here is the theory and you are free to debate it.
The republican party will split because of state demographics. Most of the population is in and around Puget Sound. Population is moving to the urban areas and urban counties. Urban counties contain a variety of people. Unless a party can elect its candidates, it withers. The issue is electoral politics and the kind of candidates who can win in urban and urbanizing areas. The current race between Rep. Reichert and Ms. Burner shows that burbs that were once solidly in the republican corner, can't be counted on. Mercer Island is no longer solidly republican.

So, republicans seem to have an electoral problem.
The base is one way and what the electorate seems to want is another. How long are the moderates who want to win going to stay with the conservative libertarians who are focused on strict ideology?

Looks like the big tent is folding.

Here is some info on Eastern Washington and Western Washington:

"....Compared to Western Washington, Eastern Washington has roughly twice the land area and one-third the population. According to the U.S. Census Bureau the population estimate as of 2004 was 1,371,802, less populous than King County alone. The population growth rate between the two is roughly the same. Of Washington's nine Congressional districts, Eastern Washington is nearly exactly comprised of two (the 4th and 5th), aside from a small portion of the 4th in Skamania County. In the 2004 election, this region voted 59% for Republican Dino Rossi, while the Western half voted 53% for Democrat Christine Gregoire.

Eastern Washington is composed of Adams, Asotin, Benton, Chelan, Columbia, Douglas, Ferry, Franklin, Garfield, Grant, Kittitas, Klickitat, Lincoln, Okanogan, Pend Oreille, Spokane, Stevens, Walla Walla, Whitman, and Yakima Counties...."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Washington

"....As of the Census 2000, the Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue Metropolitan Area's population was 3,043,878, about half the state's total population.[9]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington

The republican party is facing the changing demographics of the state. Posters here often argue that the state is ready for a libertarian tide. That just isn't what, in my opinion, sells in urban areas. The state is urbanizing.

So, republicans who want to win will either have to wrest control from the current base and build a new base or they will have to form an offshoot with the ability to sponsor candidates.

Posted by: WVH on April 9, 2008 10:14 PM
44. WVH stated in #23:
Some of the graffiti included Nazi symbols. The question is which candidate is the best person to stand up and say that Nazi symbols are wrong. Governor Gregoire, of course.

3. This is the defintion of nonpartisan:

a person who is nonpartisan
free from party affiliation or bias
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

You are truly a moron to juxtapose your bias for Gregoire (against Rossi) and the definition of nonpartisan. Not having a party label is not, and will never be a substitute for nonpartisan, and you are only kidding yourself to say that.

Like so many said, I seriously question how you got your PhD, if you indeed earned it.

I suggest to you that you simply stop coming to (or posting) at SP, because you show your true color, to quote bsquared in #31, and your utter lack of logic and reason every time you post something.

Posted by: DopioLover on April 10, 2008 02:29 AM
45. @ 43- "So, republicans seem to have an electoral problem...

Take away the illegality in 2004 and the Republican candidate won the Governorship. Even the most ardent partisan Democrat admits that to themselves albeit begrudgingly. The only problem appears to be Democrats unwilling to relinquish their grasp on the power once they've attained it, and have no qualms about disenfranchising the voters in order to keep it.

The base is one way and what the electorate seems to want is another...Looks like the big tent is folding.

You'll see the error in that logic in November when Dino Rossi gives you a Birthday to remember this November...The big tent is coming and he's replacing the current 3 ring circus occupying Olympia......the first to go is the head Clown.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 10, 2008 06:16 AM
46. Arggghh... Dang HTML... I am fixing a little bit of formatting on my comment in #44...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WVH stated in #23:

The question is which candidate is the best person to stand up and say that Nazi symbols are wrong. Governor Gregoire, of course.

3. This is the defintion of nonpartisan:

a person who is nonpartisan
free from party affiliation or bias
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


You are truly a moron to juxtapose your bias for Gregoire (against Rossi) and the definition of nonpartisan. Not having a party label is not, and will never be a substitute for nonpartisan, and you are only kidding yourself to say that.

Like so many said, I seriously question how you got your PhD, if you indeed earned it.

I suggest to you that you simply stop coming to (or posting) at SP, because you show your true color, to quote bsquared in #31, and your utter lack of logic and reason every time you post something.


Posted by: DopioLover on April 10, 2008 09:33 AM
47. Dopio or Dope,

1. You said this:

"Like so many said, I seriously question how you got your PhD, if you indeed earned it.

I suggest to you that you simply stop coming to (or posting) at SP, because you show your true color, to quote bsquared in #31, and your utter lack of logic and reason every time you post something.

Posted by DopioLover at April 10, 2008 09:33 AM
Post a comment

So, you want me BANNED? Is that your solution. I suppose the reason you want me BANNED is because you disagree with my opinion.

1.I am correct that you are from an Asian culture?

2. Did you come here on a Visa and do you have an understanding of this cuture and history?

3.In other words what do you know about this culture and the First Amendment?

The reason I am asking whether you are from an Asian culture outside of the US is many of those cultures have no tradition with the First Amendment. True, this is a private site and the site owner, Stefan can kick anyone's lame ass to the curb. So, far he has been fairly lenient as he grew up in this culture and understands the First Amendment. Further, he is of Jewish extraction and undertands Hitler and censorship.

Now let's get to Hitler and BANNING people

You might be interested in these sources:

Censorship in Nazi GermanyEven telling jokes about Hitler became a serious offence - one to send you to the concentration camps and potentially death. Censorship was enforced by a ...
www.historylearningsite.co.uk/censorship_in_nazi_germany.htm

Nazi Propaganda and CensorshipThe Nazi censors also burned the books of Helen Keller, who had overcome her ... After-school meetings of the Hitler Youth and the League of German Girls ...
www.ushmm.org/outreach/propag.htm

disinformation | what would hitler do? censorship and the new ...what would hitler do? censorship and the new 'degenerate' art by Lucifer Marx (lucifermarx@disinfo.net) - October 16, 2001 ...
www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/article/id1637/pg1/index.html

The long history of censorshipHitler, the omnipotent FĂĽrer of the Third Reich, also implemented the severe censorship and intolerable propaganda machine of the Nazi regime to all ...
www.beaconforfreedom.org/about_project/history.html


[PDF] Overcoming Censorship through ArtFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
endured harsh censorship under these governments. Example one: Hitler organized an art exhibition of "degenerate art" and destroyed ...
www.blantonmuseum.org/elearning/aac/teacher/censorship/blanton_censorship.pdf


So, how long have you lived in this culture and what do you really understand about the US First Amendment?

Posted by: WVH on April 10, 2008 10:18 AM
48. Rick D,

I don't know your name and birthday as I don't have racist thugs to investigate, nor would I care to. Intimidation and bullying, well that is just something the KKK and groups like them do. I do know that Governor Gregoire will win and you will have join one of your fellow thugs in grief counseling. At some point, the republican party will have to decide whether they want to go the way of the party in Louisiana and elect a candidate who will begin to clean up the mess. I suppose the next comment by one of the allied thugs is she definitely should be BANNED.

Posted by: WVH on April 10, 2008 10:24 AM
49. Personal note to Dopio... beware of contradicting our favorite victim... any cross word or failure to bow will result in being called a hateful racist. With a usual pique of perpetual indignation, some have forgotten that Little Black Sambo was never Little Black Victim.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on April 10, 2008 10:27 AM
50. WVH, you are truly a moron. I never said anything about banning you, and you know you are just trying to put my words in my mouth. I simply suggested that you voluntarily stop coming and posting because you are making a bigger fool of yourself the more you write.

Your reply is a classic example of your foolishness. Your implication that anyone (and you specifically stated my Asian heritage) who came to the US on a visa would not understand the first amendment is a complete logical fallacy. This is in the same league as your questioning of others on black-ness based on number of black friends, neighbors, etc. Maybe, I should just flip the question and ask you:

1) How many personal friends do you have of those from Asia on a visa?

2) The church you go to, how many came from Asian countries on a visa?

...

I could list a few more, but I hope you get the point on how ridiculous your black-ness test is.

Now, as for your claim that Gregoire is the best person to stand up and say that Nazi symbols are wrong, just give me one solid argument supporting this. She is the best? That means she is better than you or any other person in this state? Who is the second best?

Last not but least, I will bite your bait and answer on your qualification questions. I came to the US as a student in 1984 and got a BS and MS. I do feel I am pretty well Americanized and understand US culture, probably better than you.

I see you a frog in a well that sees only what's inside of the well. You only see diversity in terms of black-ness, while I see myself a frog from outside into the well telling to the frog inside that there is a bigger world out there.

Well, that's enough for now, and I hope this is the day you stop from making a fool of yourself.

Posted by: DopioLover on April 10, 2008 01:26 PM
51. Oh, Ragnar..

Thanks for the warning, and I just want to tell you that I thoroughly enjoyed your "verbal beating" on our favorite victim's head about her victimhood. If only words can get through her thick skull...

Posted by: DopioLover on April 10, 2008 01:29 PM
52. Too late folks.......World's most Vacuous Human has left to ruin a fresh thread. I will,though, use her blatant racist post @ 47 against DopioLover as ammunition in other threads to expose her true bigotry.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 10, 2008 02:40 PM
53. Good analogy by the way Dopiolover @ 50 re: the Frogs.

Posted by: Rick D. on April 10, 2008 05:44 PM
54. Dope,

1) How many personal friends do you have of those from Asia on a visa?

Quite a few. I grew up in a community with a substantial number of Koreans and Phillapinos.

I have volunteered helping people with visa issues.

2) The church you go to, how many came from Asian countries on a visa?

A really huge number. I am Catholic.

So Dope,

1. How many Black people do you know and do you see them socially?

2. If you belong to a faith community, does that faith community have any Black members?

...

Posted by: WVH on April 10, 2008 09:59 PM
55. WVH, this will be my last response to you on this thread.

I really don't buy that you have personal friends that are of Asian descent who also came here on a visa. As you stated, those dang Asians are pretty prejudiced, and I have a hard time believing your statement. You have shown your prejudice toward Asians, and Asians (not born here) do have pretty strong prejudice toward blacks.

2. Your being Catholic has very little to do with the number of Asians coming to the particular church you belong to. Using the two particular races you mentioned, they do have their own ethnic Catholic churches, and I doubt that very many, as you claimed, actually attend your church.

3. If you are going to resort to name calling, stop advertising that you are a Catholic. You give Catholic church and its teaching a bad name.

That's all for on this thread, and you are truly pathetic.

Posted by: DopioLover on April 11, 2008 01:05 AM
56. Dope,

You don't respond because you can't. First, I do and always have done a lot of volunteer work. Second, I grew up in a very diverse community.

The Catholic church is probably one of the most diverse denominations:

As of 2005, this was the estimated demo:

Estimated U.S. Catholics in 2005:

White alone, non-Hispanic - 44,800,000 (56%)
Hispanic, any race - 29,600,000 (37%)
Black alone or mixed, non-Hispanic - 2,500,000 (3%)
Asian alone, non-Hispanic - 2,500,000 (3%)
Other or mixed, non-Hispanic - 1,000,000 (1%)
Total U.S. Catholic population - 80,400,000 (100%)

The Seattle population is very diverse.

You probably don't know any Black people and you have no idea how to deal with the diversity of this society. My theory is whatever country you emigrated from did not have a racially diverse society nor was there as much mixing between different classes of people as there is here.

I would not call you a moron, but you are profoundly ignorant of this society and its history. You don't know about the history of the various groups in America and what that means. What you describe as being Americanized does not mean that you understand this nation's history.
So, before you throw around that term, moron, make sure it isn't you.

Posted by: WVH on April 11, 2008 09:48 AM
57. Dope,

You said:

"As you stated, those dang Asians are pretty prejudiced, and I have a hard time believing your statement. You have shown your prejudice toward Asians, and Asians (not born here) do have pretty strong prejudice toward blacks."

1. I am not prejudiced toward Asians. Point out where I said, "As you stated, those dang Asians are pretty prejudiced."

2. You stated above that you are probably prejudiced toward Blacks, your statement, not mine.

3. Catholic churches here and how diverse they are depends upon the parish. Some are very diverse.

4. There is more mixing of Asians and all types of folks in Seattle proper and other urban areas than there might be in Redmond, Issaquah or areas like that, so you need to understand the different areas of this state, which you don't.

You have a very limited view of the world. You are the one who is prejudiced. You said:
" Asians (not born here) do have pretty strong prejudice toward blacks." Maybe you don't consider prejudiced people pathetic, as you say. I do.

Posted by: WVH on April 11, 2008 10:28 AM
58. Wilda~ quit being a bigot.

Cheers!

Posted by: Rick D. on April 12, 2008 11:13 AM
59. WVH, as usual, you are nothing but a puff and fluff. What does you doing volunteering have to do with your personal friends being Asian decent who came to the US on a visa? What does Catholic church's demographic have anything to do with the church you personally attend? By the same reasoning, I belong to a diverse community because I belong to a certain denomination.

Your writing reeks of your bigotry, yet you just don't want to see it. You need to wake up and see that you are actually enslaved by your own victimhood created from your blackness.

Once again, quit associating yourself with Catholic because you are only tainting its name.

Posted by: DopioLover on April 13, 2008 11:52 PM
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