Not just in Lake Woebegone, but in Seattle, too.
In a move toward more rigorous academics in Seattle high schools, Roosevelt High School will require all sophomores to take an Advanced Placement course next year.
"The idea is to really embrace the idea that all children can achieve to a higher standard," Roosevelt Principal Brian Vance told School Board members Wednesday. "It's a little bit of a risk, but I think it's also an opportunity to move forward."
Advanced Placement courses are growing more common in Seattle high schools, and both Chief Academic Officer Carla Santorno and Superintendent Maria Goodloe-Johnson want all students — eventually — to be required to take at least one.
Let me see, how can I put this gently? How about this: Garrison Keillor is joking when he uses that line. But I fear that Vance, Santorno, and Goodloe-Johnson are not.
Let me give the three administrators this clue. The average IQ is 100. (The average is probably a point or two higher in high schools, since some of the slowest students have already dropped out.) Because of the way IQ tests are constructed, half of the people have IQs lower than 100. With a few exceptions, that half* will not get much out of an Advanced Placement class — but they may handicap the other half.
Some think it is cruel to even mention these well-known facts. I think it is far crueler to put students in classes where they have no chance to succeed, as cruel as asking an average playground pick-up team to compete against the Seattle Sonics.
By way of Joanne Jacobs.
Cross posted at Jim Miller on Politics.
(*More realistically, probably no more than a fourth of the students should take these classes. I picked half for my argument so as to make it as clear as possible.)
Posted by Jim Miller at March 15, 2008 07:37 AM | Email ThisWell, sorry to take it off track a little bit. I had the exact impression as you did when I read the article a few days ago. Liberals mentra at work in whose view, there is no below average including IQ, grades, and even income.
Posted by: DopioLover on March 15, 2008 08:45 AMI can see it now - kids with A's in calculus and physics who can't add or read.
Posted by: deadwood on March 15, 2008 09:00 AMAP courses are intended to bring college level education to high school students. Not all high school students will go to, and fewer succeed, in college. Fewer still are ready to perform at that level in high school. However, I think the benefits exceed the cost. If the courses are balanced well, this should prod some students to achieve more than they would with normal courses, and it should not hurt the ones who score poorly on the AP exam.
Posted by: Michael on March 15, 2008 09:41 AMWhy not just give every student an A, and send them all home. It would cost the taxpayers less.
Posted by: Jeff B. on March 15, 2008 11:41 AMHowever, even in that kind of highly charged academic atmosphere no one is required to take an AP course. The Honors options is already a step up, and even if a student never takes a single AP course, their HS transcript will show a boatload of Honors courses, regardless.
I suggest that if this school wants to up the ante, they require everyone to take an Honors option OR an AP instead, as that leaves it up to each student and their parents as to which type of extra challenge is appropriate for each student. Some may not even get out of the Honors course successfully but the school would have challenged them somehow.
Requiring an AP class from everyone including students who are already barely C students seems hugely misguided.
Posted by: Michele on March 15, 2008 12:42 PMThe system does not value excellence.
Posted by: Ryan on March 15, 2008 12:53 PMThe term "Advanced Placement" of course becomes a misnomer, and there are some concerns I have about workload. (In my experience AP means about a x2 increase in knowledge taught, and about x5 increase in workload- not very efficient).
However, the information in an AP History class for example used to be considered normal basic things you should know after graduating Highschool.
So I find this idea... mildly encouraging.
Posted by: Cicero on March 15, 2008 04:57 PMhttp://www.k12.wa.us/safs/PUB/FIN/0405/0405%20pdf%20reports/SDAllFndc.pdf
Money to send kids to a good private school:
http://www.holynames-sea.org/Admissions/Admin_Tuition.htm
"Tuition paid annually is $10,224 per student, due May 1."
Posted by: John Bailo on March 15, 2008 06:10 PMThe government schools have failed the students and parents for a very long time. It's time to either stop supporting the government schools or support vouchers for parents.
Government is not the solution. Government is the problem.
Posted by: Snuffy on March 15, 2008 06:58 PMThe government schools have failed the students and parents for a very long time. It's time to either stop supporting the government schools or support vouchers for parents.
Government is not the solution. Government is the problem.
Posted by: Snuffy on March 15, 2008 06:58 PMThe government schools have failed the students and parents for a very long time. It's time to either stop supporting the government schools or support vouchers for parents.
Government is not the solution. Government is the problem.
Posted by: Snuffy on March 15, 2008 06:59 PMAP classes have a curriculum that is predetermined, and keeps moving even if students are falling behind. It is what every conservative says they want - an objective measure of what is being taught in class. Some students succeed, some don't. But the studies show that challenging a student is better than assuming they are all too stupid to be there.
The mistake that Seattle is making is forcing everyone into the same AP class. Not everyone is adept at the same things. My child's school counsels students to take AP in the subjects they are excited about, or are motivated to succeed at. Some choose to take 6-7 AP classes their junior and senior years, other take one in high school. Either way, just taking one raises a child's success of going to college and being successful at college.
Posted by: janet s on March 15, 2008 10:30 PMThe Seattle School District and city government are train wrecks guided by political correctness.
They are among the main reasons my family fled Seattle.
Same mindset for this?
Posted by: American First on March 16, 2008 01:03 PMSo objectively speaking, is C in AP better then A in the regular version as far as college application is concerned?
Posted by: FreedomLover on March 16, 2008 01:51 PMOne, it is an AP course designed for a semester that will be given over a year. Therefore, it should be slowed down enough for students who haven't attempted this rigor to do so. Two, for those who want a faster pace, the regular one-semester course is available.
No, the school doesn't receive extra money if all the students take the course. It is receiving money to help train the teachers and get this process rolling.
Yes, a C in AP class is worth more than an A in a regular class not so much for the grade but for the student taking the harder class.
Posted by: westie on March 16, 2008 09:27 PM1) the course is Human Geography and is designed for a semester but will be taught over a year allowing students who haven't experienced this level of rigor to take it at a slower pace.
2)students who want a regular AP pace? It's going to be available at the semester level as well.
3) a C in AP is better on a high school transcript than an A in a regular ed class just because AP is considered the higher rigor class.
4) the school system does consider AP of huge value and guess what? so do most colleges and universities which look for students taking the highest rigor class (AP, IB or honors).
5) this is what they are doing over in Bellevue. Remember them? The suburban high schools that are doing so well?
6) If you add supports to this kind of pilot program, most of these kids can succeed and find that they can do the work. That is a detail that needs fleshing out.
7) the school gets no extra money for the number of students taking an AP class - they are getting grant money to train teachers.
For God's sake, give the district some credit.
Posted by: westie on March 16, 2008 09:40 PM