The latest Rossi email update announces that through the end of February he has raised "over $2.8 million with over $2 million cash-on-hand." Nice numbers to be sure, but not wildly newsworthy (Gregoire has around $2.9 million on hand and both candidates look to have strong fundraising bases).
Here's the interesting part. The update also announces over 23,000 total donors, including the fact that "54 percent of them are new." That 54% is news, as is the roughly $120 average of the contributions.
Rossi still has to run an excellent campaign to dethrone an incumbent Democratic Governor in our increasingly blue state. Yet, at every turn there are some interesting indicators that Rossi's effort has some unexpectedly strong and active grassroots backing.
Posted by Eric Earling at March 12, 2008 07:13 AM | Email ThisDino -- show me that you're really breakthrough and not just part of the crowd.
What's the point?
Currently the Rs are completely disorganized as shown by their inability to list their events at the
State, County, and Local level
If Dino Rossi really wants to win, he needs to present his ideas on how to fix the problems that Washington faces
These ideas need to be easy to understand and reasonably priced
A large part of the State including King County and yes, Seattle, want solutions NOW and they don't care which party implements them
You and Dino need to "just say No" to the
infamous Seattle analysis/paralysis
Dino Rossi's first act of subsidizing Save our Sonics season ticket holders with limited government money is Not a good choice
Posted by: Green Lake on March 12, 2008 08:23 AMoh- and the drive into work today - was 20 MPH- in the car pool lane (the GP lanes weren't moving at all) for 50 minutes of my morning commute.
Thank goodness I wasn't going to the pharmacy to buy a plan B pill- because it would be a late term abortion by the time I arrive via our state's transportation network that we are paying infinitely higher taxes for now.
Thank you Gregoire AND Locke- you've done nothing for the state- and it really shows.
Posted by: Andy on March 12, 2008 08:35 AMThe current arena package will save millions. A private gift of a half billion is tough to pass up.
Posted by: AP on March 12, 2008 09:46 AM
Now if in fact Dino shares the same views as
Governor Jindal he would be a fool not to seek
him out and use his blueprint for success.
But alas I think that Jay Vander Stoep and the
rest of the mainstream republicans of Washington
crowd have convinced Dino that in order to win more convincingly he needs to go more to the left.
All that will do is make it harder for Dino to win.
She will loose votes either way, one hand doesn't want to give anymore money to private corporations that threaten to leave town every five to ten years because they need a new shiny place to play.
On the other you have all the morons who think sports teams rally the economy and give them something to watch at the bar on a Wednesday night. It's a no win situation.
In the end we're better off not wasting the money since the Sonics or some other pro-sports team is just going to threaten to leave in the next five to ten years.
You are so far off on this issue, just like most of the Dems. The local folks want to buy the team as gift to the the area. They are willing to donate a half billion dollars of their own money to do it, $150,000,000+ of it will go towards a public venue that will need a major overhaul anyway.
Is it better to spend $75,000,000 and save the Sonics or spend $150,000,000+ and lose a popular, succesful, historical NBA franchise to a podunk, tornado infested, prairie fire ravaged, softball sized hail pounded, cowtown?
Posted by: AP on March 12, 2008 10:05 AMMaybe you should get a job closer to home (or a home closer to your job). Blaming others for your lousy commute is just passing the buck.
If people would just stop moving here maybe we could have less NIMBYS and fix the infrastructure...of course the economy would suffer and you'd blame Gregoire for that too. My guess is that you also blame Gregoire for $3.45/gal gas and the fact you have to get an oil change every 3000 miles.
Sure, it goes towards a public venue that sits empty 50%-75% of the year. The Sonics won't be playing there even if it gets fixed, T-Birds won't be there, Storm will stay but they hardly fill the place to capacity, you get the occasional rock concert or two (in a place has lousy sound). Seems like a pretty lousy investment to me.
Is it better to spend $75,000,000 and save the Sonics or spend $150,000,000+ and lose a popular, succesful, historical NBA franchise to a podunk, tornado infested, prairie fire ravaged, softball sized hail pounded, cowtown?
Historical NBA franchise? They've been around since '67, hell I've got LP's at home older than that. The fine people of Oklahoma have already voted to tax themselves a new stadium, we voted to have the city spend money on more important things and not on corporate subsides. Let the will of the voters prevail.
Of course I blame the commuters, if we had fewer commuters would not be discussing this problem. =P
So let me get this straight, you want more expensive roads but don't want to pay the taxes to build and maintain them. That sort of thinking got the Bush Administration in trouble, why should Gregoire follow the same flawed finance model?
You are clueless. Seattle Center is a public entity. They are planning on spending $600,000,000 to $800,000,000 already. Why not slash $150,000,000 to $300,000,000 off of that # for just $75,000,000? It does not take tax dollars from anything else. It will not create an additional tax. Balmer, Stanton, Sinegal, and company want to buy the Sonics because they are an important community asset. Your pathetic religious hatred of corporations has clouded your thinking. These are local folks, who if they didn't have to step in at the last minute to save them, would never buy an NBA team.
We have plenty of $ to fix our roads, we just are wasting too much of it on silly projects, union handouts, lawyer handouts, and environmental handouts. Our gas tax can sufficiently fund all of our road needs. It is time we stopped raiding and misspending our gas tax revenues.
Posted by: AP on March 12, 2008 11:01 AMCommunity asset? ROFL.
Millionaires playing basketball on a rectangular court in a taxpayer funded stadium are not community assets.
How about the Mariners? They made $17.8 million in profit in a stadium that is paid by your taxes implemented by the legislature after the voters rejected it.
How much do we the people get back from that? Are the Mariners going to pay back the people who built them the stadium? (No) Will they threaten to leave town if they got a better offer from a different city? (Yes)
Your pathetic religious hatred of corporations has clouded your thinking.
It's more like my hatred of people who will go out of their way to betray the will of the voters. I don't give a damn how local billionaires spend their money as long as they don't defy the voters who through the ballot box stated they did not want to finance any more venues for professional athletes with their tax money.
The people of Oklahoma City voted otherwise, why should we here in Seattle stand in their way?
Tax breaks for Boeing, Microsoft, sure. They hire thousands of people and provide billions of dollars to the local economy. How many people are employed by the Sonics organization? A hundred at most. Hardly seems worth the money.
1. Governor Jindal ran on an anti-corruption message and he had the "assistance" of a natural disaster which pointed out the weakness of a decades long corrupt power structure which literally killed people. Corrupt systems simply do not work and they put the lives of the most vulnerable at risk, always. Corrupt systems waste resources and are not productive. One-party rule was shown to be glaringly ineffective. He had this going for him. Also, Jindal had a less effective opponent and the incumbent did not run. I think running against one-party rule is an effective message.
2. I don't see how Rossi will win in urban counties at this point and he certainly will not win with the message proposed by the far right republicans. King County has about a fourth of the state's voting population, add the urban sectors of Pierce, Clark, Sno and Spokane counties and they overcome a far right message libertarian message that might move voters in rural areas and small towns. As far as I am able to determine, the far right wing and libertarian segments of the pubbie party want to think that urban areas don't exist and will wither away if you don't address their needs. It ain't gona happen and urban areas will continue to elect dems if their needs are not addressed. Green Lake is right about that. Jindal inherited a decades long system of one-party rule with corrupt political dynasties. Urban areas at this point in history are not going to vote for a far right libertarian message and if Rossi can win without urban areas, I guess cows are voting some where.
Posted by: WVH on March 12, 2008 11:17 AM
"Of course I blame the commuters, if we had fewer commuters would not be discussing this problem. =P"
THANK YOU. You've captured the exact reason why 54% of Rossi's donors are new, are private citizens, are ANGRY with the non-customer service attitude they get from the government we pay for.
If you aren't going to fix the roads- give us our f***ing money back and fire all of your useless money sucking government overhead. We can drive on crappy low capacity, low through put roads at a much lower cost than what Gregoire and Locke have created for us.
The same can be said for our schools. If I wanted my kids to not be able to read, do math or be functionally literate- that result could be achieved with 3k less a year of MY money.
Posted by: Andy on March 12, 2008 01:43 PMurban voters apparently don't care about:
1- transportation?
2- education?
3- public safety?
If the majority of washingtonians don't give a crap about core infrastructure and would rather spend all of their tax money on global warming awareness, committees to talk about issues that will never get addressed, and creating entitlements that we can't afford- then they SHOULD vote for Gregoire.
It's very clear what she stands for- I'm not sure why she ran on the line of "cutting through red tape and not raising taxes" because all she did was create more bearuacacy and spending programs.
Hell- all Rossi has to do is buy up ad time and run all of Gregoire's 2004 campaign promises! She broke every one of them.
Posted by: Andy on March 12, 2008 02:07 PMWhy, because the economy is so good that it causes companies to expand/relocate here, this in turn causes peoples home prices to rise, and making it so newer workers who cannot buy such homes have to live farther and farther out?
Roads get built, now it's the Dem's fault for not building them fast enough to support an economy that has the potential collapse on them when they passed the roads budget two years ago? What about all the NIMBY's? Just look at all the BS surrounding Hey 99, and the 520 replacement. Maybe you should move to Eastern Washington, they hardly have any traffic problems.
If I wanted my kids to not be able to read, do math or be functionally literate- that result could be achieved with 3k less a year of MY money.
There are other options such as sending your child to private school. That seems like a fine protest against the Govt. Stephan does it, I'm sure many others on here do as well.
I say let the Sonics go to a city where grown-ups are in charge of the city, state and local government.
Posted by: Punctuation Nazi on March 12, 2008 02:13 PMLast night, as the grocery checker at my local Safeway handed me my receipt he said "Thanks, for using your Safeway blah, blah card. You saved $6.47." I promptly replied, "You're welcome, but I would have saved $93.00 if I hadn't come in here." If something cost you money, it is not a gift. Sports teams and stadiums are frills, and Seattle has more important places to spend our hard earned tax dollars, like buckling washboard steets. If Ballmer and his love the Sonics so much, let them fund the whole thing. If Key Arena isn't profitable, then tear it down and replace it with a park. After all, the homeless need a place to sleep. Go, Sonics go...and take the Seahawks and the Mariners with you.
Posted by: NW Denizen on March 12, 2008 02:39 PMIsn't it great when people use that excuse. I got mine, but you can't have yours.
Like it or not this state is growing, and not everyone wants to live in the dump of Seattle.
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on March 12, 2008 02:45 PM"There are other options such as sending your child to private school. That seems like a fine protest against the Govt. Stephan does it, I'm sure many others on here do as well."
A better protest would be to send your kid to private school and refuse to pay public school taxes and levys. Why don't we have school voucher and charter schools in this state? California is moving to criminalize individuals who choose to home-school their children. Hmmm, I wonder if it has anything to do with liberalism.
Vet is right, Seattle is becoming an increasingly difficult place to live. Mayor Quimby thinks it is top priority to demand that Seattleites sort their table scraps, and submit forms describing how they get to work everyday. Meawhile, our streets are buckling and he crows about how proud he is of his pothole repair truck. Get the best bang for your tax buck...vote Democrat!!!
Posted by: NW Denizen on March 12, 2008 03:11 PMThat's fine and dandy, but you can't expect the needs of the few to outweigh the needs of the many. Especially when those few are in areas that choose the wrong party last election. That's not how politics works. Since roads are built by the Govt, they are quite political and everyone wants an easy commute as long as it doesn't require them sacrificing their NIMBYism.
Since the needs of the many seem to want mass transit (at least according to the ballot box) they get what they want more than say the people who live out in the middle of what used to be nowhere and commute to somewhere. Since the used to be nowhere (USN) people want a short commute to Somewhere the Govt. should make sure that the road Somewhere can handle all the USN people.
Meanwhile the Developers who build in Nowhere don't give a damn about the road to Somewhere they pay lots of $$ to the Govt. so that they can keep building in Nowhere and not have to worry about how Joe Taxpayer will get to Somewhere.
Rossi lost the election last night with his stupidity. I hope he's satisfied.
Posted by: hinton on March 12, 2008 04:14 PMGregoire turned a 2 billion dollar surplus into a 2 billion dollar defecit. Give r take (mostly take on her part) 400 to 500 mil
She takes an 18% increase in pay, hands out our money like it was hog feed to her constituants
Rossi will get my vote for damn sure!
PS: I think Eric is doing a damn fine job on this site!
That's fine and dandy, but you can't expect the needs of the few to outweigh the needs of the many.
Wow. I thought progressivism was built upon this concept? Gut the health care system in this country because 16% of Americans aren't covered? How about bilingual education because a few percent of the students can't speak english? What about Affirmative Action?
Posted by: Smoley on March 12, 2008 06:11 PMHopefully their last stand!
No more Daily Billions in spending Bill emails!
They can all go home and plan their Attack on reversing the People of this state's overwhelming I960 decision so they can shove another 7% Income tax down our throats, Massive more taxes, Massive more regulation, Massive More fee's.
GULP GULP GULP GULP
No end to Liberals Sucking you dry!
Not sure how the checker is responsibile for YOUR choosing to go in the store and YOUR choosing to purchase items from YOUR local grocery store......Look up the words YOUR and CHOICE and you might develop a hint as to what I'm saying.
Posted by: Rick D. on March 12, 2008 06:48 PMYou said:
"WVH-
urban voters apparently don't care about:
1- transportation?
2- education?
3- public safety?
If the majority of washingtonians don't give a crap about core infrastructure and would rather spend all of their tax money on global warming awareness, committees to talk about issues that will never get addressed, and creating entitlements that we can't afford- then they SHOULD vote for Gregoire."
Couldn't disagree with you more. I ride the bus and use Flex Car now Zip Car, I care about transportation. The direction to look at Governor Jindal is apt. Most sane people in LA that can afford it, send their kids to private school. As I understand it, Governor Jindal was elected to clean up the sewer that is LA politics, improve education and improve the infrastructure of the state.
What I am saying is that urban areas are fairly diverse and a rigid social agenda, even if I may agree with many points will not get one elected. For example, I do not support abortion, but I am not running. I believe that a candidate running in an urban area could be personally against abortion and believe that unless the Supreme Court changes the rules, they will enforce the law as currently enacted. I know that that will upset many here, but an anti-abortion, pro-Constitutional Amendment banning all abortion candidate at this point in history is not going to win in an urban area. I believe that more moderate pubbies who focus on bread and butter issues and fiscal responsibility have a chance. An extreme social conservative's candidacy is in my opinion, DOA in urban areas.
Posted by: WVH on March 12, 2008 09:41 PM"How about the Mariners? They made $17.8 million in profit in a stadium that is paid by your taxes implemented by the legislature after the voters rejected it."
Um actually Safeco field was signed into law by DEMOCRAT Mike Lowry. It is always interesting to hear you liberals create a mess then turn around and tell everyone how much it stinks as if you had nothing to do with it. It was the Democrats that invented the "emergency " maneuver to steal tax payer money to subsidize the millionaire to begin with you idiot!!!!!
And don't give me this crap about how there were a few Republicans in the legislature at that time. The governor has VETO power. SO STOP YOU DAMN LYING COMRADE!!!
It may work with the rest of your brain dead liberal cabal, but it won't fly here.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 03:23 AM"It's more like my hatred of people who will go out of their way to betray the will of the voters."
What a hypocrite you are! It was DEMCORATS who used the emergency clause to push Safeoc on us. It was Democrats who overturned I-601, the "will of the people" you claim to defend.
You are a damned liar, that's all.
Good job on reading Wikipedia...I would like to point out who controlled the legislature at that time, which if you every bothered to take a civics class put the bills before the Governor. The GOP had the majority in the State Legislature (remember Contract with America) so I guess that puts a big hole in your argument.
It was Democrats who overturned I-601, the "will of the people" you claim to defend.
I have no doubt, but again I don't hold you personally responsible for the Iraq War or the Recession. I don't agree with the overturning of I-601, I believe if the people spoke (via the ballot box) the Govt. should listen. Sometimes people pass stupid legislation like I-728, which as far as I can tell has no way measurable way to verify it success/failure but we have to follow that (unless of course you break the state rules by bundling initiatives *cough* Tim Eyman *cough*).
Should I hold you personally responsible for Dino Rossi willingness to defend corporate subsidies for pint-sized corporations who demand that taxpayers build them a place to work? Nope, but I sure won't be voting for him in the fall.
You are a damned liar, that's all.
It appears you just read the Wikipedia page rather than doing your homework. Also, you're argument holds up better when you don't resort to name calling.
Should be "Also, your argument", for all the grammar/spelling peeps.
He does, but why would he go against the will of the people as spoken through the GOP controlled legislature? First term, new governor upsetting the people as spoken through their elected reps. seems like political suicide. The M's were threatening to leave, they are clearly a valuable "community asset" (and they had actually a good season that year).
Obviously he didn't run for re-election and given the choice between Gary Locke and Ellen Craswell my voting choice at the time was pretty clear.
In the meantime I applaud Gregiore and the current Democrat super-majority legislature for not giving into the demands of the Sonics organization (as of this moment).
How many folks who voted for Gregoire last time will for for Rossi this time?
ANSWER: Plenty
The key will be turnout.
With the State Budget Revenue forecasts declining monthly and the Rainy Day Fund "shell-game" exposed as merely failing to Fund the State Pension Fund adequately (it was underfunded by $5 Billion @ 6/30/07 and has $37 BILLION invested in Equities...equity markets have dropped by 10% or more since then or possibly another $3.7 BILLION).
In the meantime, Gregoire has hired more State Employees (the gift that keeps on taking & sucking) and failed to get any Transportation relief on the ground. With Boeing losing that big Contract and after the fact getting Gregoire's attention...shows case after case of lack of leadership. LEADERSHIP is what people want.
As for the Sonics leaving....I attended games for years. I viewed the Key Arena, Safeco Field & Seahawk Stadium as welfare mainly for rich folks.
The NBA has lost it's shine. I haven't been to a game for 4 years & have zero interest.
How is Boeing loosing the contract her fault? Seems Sen. McCain had a much bigger hand. I was reading today the Alabama Senator Richard Shelby is quite happy with the decision.
Can you blame the Bush Administration for wanting to place billions of dollars into a GOP controlled Southern state as opposed to a Dem controlled Western one? How better to swing an election in your parties favor than by blaming a Liberal Governor for loosing it when she had likely had very little to do with it (of course this is at least as much a stretch as your argument is).
it was underfunded by $5 Billion @ 6/30/07 and has $37 BILLION invested in Equities...equity markets have dropped by 10% or more since then or possibly another $3.7 BILLION
Maybe the State should have invested it in Gold or Oil since those are the only two things that seem to be rising on a consistent basis. I like how your conveniently blame her for the national recession and stock market losses (while the local economy seems to be doing ok).
Actually you need a civics lesson. The governor has VETO power. In 1995 DEMOCRAT Gov Mike Lowry convened a special session of the legislature for the Safeco Field bill (Engrossed House Bill 2115 (10/14/95) - An act to finance a Major League Baseball Stadium).
Passed in House: 66-24; Affirmed by Senate: 25-16.
In 1995, Democrat Marcus Gaspard was the MAJORITY LEADER in Washington State Senate.
And that FACT put the lie to your contention that the GOP controlled the legislature.
FACT: Democrat Governor.
FACT: Democrat majority in Senate.
Stop lying and research before throwing out talking points. The phony "working man's party" is nothing of the sort. Instead they are the Emperor's Club.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 09:23 AMAs shown in the previous post, this is a lie. Please stop repeating it. And the will of the people was expressed at the ballot box - they didn't want it. Safeco field was a Democrat hit job on the will of the people.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 09:38 AMHmmm, who was the Speaker of the House? Could it be a REPUBLICAN? Oh damn, how did that happen!
I admit I was wrong, the GOP only had a majority in the State House of Representatives.
Of course that would mean that the GOP would have had to pass it out of the House. There must be some mistake there because the GOP (people like Dino Rossi) are strongly against spending the taxpayers hard earned money on wasteful things like Pro-Sports Stadiums that sit empty for 50-75% of the year.
And the will of the people was expressed at the ballot box - they didn't want it. Safeco field was a Democrat hit job on the will of the people.
Clearly you can't do simple math. 66 of 90 is more than 46 (needed to have a majority in the House), which means the GOP Reps. would have had to have voted for it as well. Same thing with the GOP members of the state Senate (which seems to have all the makings of a bi-partisan hit job). Wow, funny how that works.
Hmm so in Cato world, the House of Representatives runs everything eh? The gov and the Democrat majority Senate have no say at all. That's interesting.
"Of course that would mean that the GOP would have had to pass it out of the House. There must be some mistake there because the GOP (people like Dino Rossi) are strongly against spending the taxpayers hard earned money on wasteful things like Pro-Sports Stadiums that sit empty for 50-75% of the year."
Oh wait! It passed the Senate and was signed by the Democrat governor - who could have vetoed it instead. There must be some mistake here because the Democrat Party (People like Christine Gregoire) are strongly against corporate welfare and taking money from the poor taxpayers and giving it to subsidize millionaires with Pro-Sports Stadiums that sit empty for 50-75% of the year.
There must be another mistake because don't we also hear that the Democrat party (people like Christine Gregoire) is against the objectification of women via prostitution yet she is shown embracing Client #9 (Democrat Gov Spitzer).
"Clearly you can't do simple math. 66 of 90 is more than 46 (needed to have a majority in the House), which means the GOP Reps. would have had to have voted for it as well. Same thing with the GOP members of the state Senate (which seems to have all the makings of a bi-partisan hit job). Wow, funny how that works."
Yes I can do simple math. Please show me where I stated that the Republicans did not hold the majority? Your straw man is a distraction from the fact that HOUSE Democrats also voted for it, the Republicans did not in fact have the majority in the legislature in 1995 as you contended and finally the Democrat Governor (from the party of people like Christine Gregoire, who embraces other Democrat governors who objectify women over 10 years while hypocritically proscuting others for the same offense and was ironically caught by the same financial trip wires he himself put in place) could have VETOED the bill and thus upheld the will of the people.
Instead, the Democrat Gov Mike Lowry (from the same women objectifying party as "John" Elliot Spitzer) did the exact opposite of honoring the will of the people. He went out of his way to convene a special session (Republicans cannot call a special session idiot) and trampled the will of the people.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 11:00 AMcato--
The point is Gregoire has kept spending DESPITE the fact the State Pension is underfunded by $5 BILLION and growing.
Spending despite stock market losses.
Spending despite National Economic woes.
And your take on the loco-economy Kato--
SEEMS to be doing ok??
Why did the State Revenue forecast drop by $432 MILLION, Kato??
How much more will it drop next forecast Kato??
What about the Democrats own admitted Budget trainwreck in the next Budget cycle Kato?
Where is the leadership Kato?
I don't consider it to be leadership to wait until the poop has already hit the fan and splattered all over you to adjust. That's what Gregoire has done.
Deer in the headlights.
Knows how to spend.
No idea how to control spending.
Regarding Boeing...
My point is what did she do to help them BEFORE the contract decision wasw made??
ANSWER: NOTHING
And only now she is wading in...to grandstand??
That's not leadership.
$40 BILLION Contract...she should have been meeting with Boeing officials to see what she could do to help them be successful.
Gregoire is now crowing about injustice??
That's not LEADERSHIP.
So Cato...who's kids are gonna fund the $5 BILLION and growing Pension underfunding??
What is your plan Cato?
My plan was:
1) Hiring freeze until plans were fully funded.
2) Buy-outs for non-retirement employees to reduce FTE's. Have you ever seen the BENEFIT PACKAGE State Workers receive?? Staggering.
Big savings with buyout is eliminating unnecessary positions wages and BENEFITS.
Gregoire did some fancy "shell-game" in her eliminate 1,000 Middle Managers which meant count retirees and call the others something else.
FTE's increased.
Just like this "Rainy Day" Fund is a "shell-game" resulting from not funding known liabilities.
You lose Kato...again.
Very much inded a Democrat hit job on the will of the people.
Even to this day we have the Democrats doing hit jobs on the will of the people. Democrat leader Lisa Brown is suing the people to CRUSH their will.
No amount of stalinist misdirection, projection and propaganda will ever change that.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 11:05 AMA) The Republicans did not, in fact, hold a majority in the legislature in 1995 when the Democrat Dwight Pelz sponsored (Engrossed House Bill 2115 (10/14/95) - An act to finance a Major League Baseball Stadium) was signed into law by Democrat (the party that claims to not want corporate welfare, people like Christine Gregoire) and gave corporate welfare to the Mariner's organization.
FACT: A legislative majority consists of a majority in the HOUSE and SENATE. You cannot have a legislative majority with one or the other, it must be BOTH. You especially cannot have it when you only control the house and the Democrat (the party that claims to not want corporate welfare but goes out of its way to grant it, claims it doesn't want women objectified but embraces colleague like Elliot Spitzer that are "Johns" spending $5500/hour for hookers, people like Christine Gregoire) Perty controls the Senate and the Governorship.
FACT: Cato made the claim (POST #41 "The GOP had the majority in the State Legislature (remember Contract with America) ") that Republicans controlled the legislature in 1995 when the Democrat Dwight Pelz sponsored (Engrossed House Bill 2115 (10/14/95) - An act to finance a Major League Baseball Stadium) was signed into law by DemocratGovernor Mike Lowry. So Cato is a PROVEN LIAR.
FACT: Democrat (the party that claims to not want corporate welfare, people like Christine Gregoire) Gov Mike Lowry signed into law the Democrat Dwight Pelz sponsored (Engrossed House Bill 2115 (10/14/95) - An act to finance a Major League Baseball Stadium). Now Mr Cato claims that the Democrat Governor was only honoring the "will of the people" (Post #43 "He does, but why would he go against the will of the people as spoken through the GOP controlled legislature?"). He also repeat the lie that that he made up in post #41.
FACT: To this day Democrats are suing the people to overturn their will as expressed at the ballot box. Democrat Lisa Brown files suit on behalf of her Democrat Party (the party that claims to not want corporate welfare but goes out of its way to grant it, claims it doesn't want women objectified but embraces colleague like Elliot Spitzer that are "Johns" spending $5500/hour for hookers, people like Christine Gregoire).
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 11:19 AM
Sorry comrade. Provide me the vote role call on that with the LINK to the source. I say BS as you are a proven liar that doesn't do his homework and makes up stuff without verifying it, such as your statemment at post 41 that the GOP held the majority in the legislature in 1995 when Democrats (the party that claims to be against corporate welfare but votes it it, claims to be against subjegation of women in prostitution yet engages in it and whose colleagues sch as Christine Gregoire, highlight Democrat "Johns" such as Elliot Spitzer, at prominent fund rasing events).
So until Cato, a proven liar, actually provide sources to prove for a fact that the no Democrat house members voted for the Democrat Dwight Pelz sponsored (Engrossed House Bill 2115 (10/14/95) - An act to finance a Major League Baseball Stadium), that statment shall also be considered false, given Cato's history of false statements clearly demonstrated here today.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 11:29 AMHmmm, let's look back at the nation GOP party circa 2000 - 2004. Why didn't Bush veto the obscene spending bills, clearly he had the power as pbj has so valiantly stated. Seems rather hypocritical to look the other way when your party is the one doing it.
Why did the State Revenue forecast drop by $432 MILLION, Kato??
Because people are not spending, without spending there is lack of revenue. If anything it means we're going to get hit by the recession (just like everyone else). Gas prices are up, inflation is up, people are going spend less, fact of life.
Did Greigiore cause oil prices to rise by declaring war on an oil rich country and rattling sabers with another? Nope.
How much more will it drop next forecast Kato??
What about the Democrats own admitted Budget trainwreck in the next Budget cycle Kato?
That really depends on how Washington State weathers the coming recession. Sounds like we should cut spending and not be giving money hand over fist to build pro-spots stadiums like Mr. Rossi suggests.
My point is what did she do to help them BEFORE the contract decision was made??
ANSWER: Tax Breaks, maybe lobbying (I dunno, is she really qualified to embed herself in the middle of an Air Forces decision made in the Pentagon).
$40 BILLION Contract...she should have been meeting with Boeing officials to see what she could do to help them be successful.
Talk to the GOP Presidential nominee, he seems to have a lot more influence than a first-term Governor in these matters. In fact he's the reason Boeing lost the contract the first time it was awarded.
Since you can't differentiate between a Governor and a Senator and a nation military decision and a local one (Buying airplanes for the next 20 years vs say sending out the National Guard) why are we even having this conversation?
So Cato...who's kids are gonna fund the $5 BILLION and growing Pension underfunding??
Likely the same ones who have to pay off the $9 trillion national debt that US Congress has racked up.
My plan was:
1) Hiring freeze until plans were fully funded.
2) Buy-outs for non-retirement employees to reduce FTE's.
Sound like a good plan, maybe you should run for office. Because it sure sounds great to talk the talk, you going to walk the walk?
Client #9 was not even a buzzword till Monday. You seem to be saying that Gov. Gregoire had advance knowledge of Gov. Spitzer's transgressions when she hung out and embraced him when the photo was taken (likely well before Monday). Simple logic would tell me this is not the case.
Yes I can do simple math. Please show me where I stated that the Republicans did not hold the majority?
Obviously you can't because it would take a Majority of both the House and Senate to pass the bill. In order to archive the numbers here (House: 66-24, Senate: 25-16) it would mean that a majority of members of both the House and the Senate would have had to pass the bill. Since 66 is more than half of 90, and 25 is more than half of 41 that would mean there was some GOP crossover votes.
That looks bad especially in light that the Dems only had one seat advantage in the Senate. Maybe the Democrats snuck in a bunch of other Democrats at put little (R)'s next to their name just for this vote in order to make the GOP look bad. Yeah that's it!! The very fact that the GOP members voted for it makes it bi-partisan.
Seriously get over yourself, accept the fact that it was a bi-partisan state legislature with a Dem. Governor passed a law that voided the will of the people to keep a popular sports team in Seattle. Beyond that who cares, it's built and we're not going to get paid back for our investment.
I'm just glad the current Dem. super-majority legislature is not as dumb as their mixes party predecessors. Except Dino Rossi of course, but since he doesn't old an office it's all talk. it's a good thing he's not Governor or he'd be more than willing to give a s**tload of money to a bunch of spoiled whiny millionaires who expect the taxpayers to pony up for their workplace while giving very little if anything back.
Do I agree with them? NO!
I think the will of the people is more important. Please stop lumping me in with a bunch of people I obviously have no connections to. I'm not a legislator and if I was I would certainly not be supporting this effort to overturn the voters will. I speak on behalf of myself, I do not speak for all liberal/concervative/socialist/liberatrian or whomever/whatever else you want to claim I'm some sort representative of.
BTW, if you really expected me (as an individual) to vote for Ellen Craswell as retribution for Safeco Field you clearly don't know me as well as you seem to claim.
Unless of course that vote was rigged to favor a certain candidate (see MI), or was manipulated by the opposing party to purposely break rules set forth prior to voting (see FL).
Then the will of the people is untrue. In this case I would be in full support of a re-vote that follows the rules agreed upon by the party in question.
Do you know for a fact, and of course if you say yes I will ask for proof, that she did not know about it? Client #9 was doing this for 10 years accoding to reports and all the while he was prosecuting others for the very same crime he was committing. We do know that she hung out with him for many of those 10 years as a partner on the tobacco case when both were AG's.
"Obviously you can't because it would take a Majority of both the House and Senate to pass the bill. In order to archive the numbers here (House: 66-24, Senate: 25-16) it would mean that a majority of members of both the House and the Senate would have had to pass the bill. Since 66 is more than half of 90, and 25 is more than half of 41 that would mean there was some GOP crossover votes."
THERE. YOU. GO. AGAIN.
The GOP never held a majority in the legislature. Were the GOP member that voted for it? Obviously. But that fact doesn't excuse the Democrat Governor who was the prime advocate for the thing in the first place. This disprove your implications that the GOP are corporate whores and the Democrats are the party of the peole blah blah blah. When it comes down to it, Democrats whore up as much or more than anyone else. And no amount of obfiscation will change that fact.
"Seriously get over yourself, accept the fact that it was a bi-partisan state legislature with a Dem. Governor passed a law that voided the will of the people to keep a popular sports team in Seattle. Beyond that who cares, it's built and we're not going to get paid back for our investment."
The Democrats had the veto, they could have stopped it. They did just the opposite. They are not the party of the people, but rather the party oif the rich millionaire sports players.
What this gets down to is the high and mighty attitude of liberal Democrats that they alone are the only ones looking out for the people against a mythical Republican ever evil corrupt cabal looking to enrich the rich, or so the tome goes. Reality proves to be much more of a bitch for Democrats.
"I'm just glad the current Dem. super-majority legislature is not as dumb as their mixes party predecessors"
Well if they did do something bad, like say kill the homeowner's bill of rights, you'd probably find a way to blame the GOP since even a Democrat super majority ought not be held accountable according to yourself.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 01:01 PMAre you talking about Hillary Clintons's antics or the Democrat's disenfranchising the voters of Florida in the primary election?
I was talking about Wshington State Democrat Majority Leader Lisa Brown and her suit against the will of the people as expressed in I-960. Not sure what that has to do with Michigan or Florida. I think your "medical" marijuana is affecting your comprehension.
Then the will of the people is untrue. In this case I would be in full support of a re-vote that follows the rules agreed upon by the party in question.
You are saying the voters of Washington State did not pass I-960? Please provide your evidence, links and sources please.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 01:14 PM
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/blogs/olympia/
Now under the Democrat super majority, we have an expected deficit of $2.4 billion. Gregoire took us from a surplus to a $2.4 billion deficit.
By your logic Pres. Bush should know his good buddy Kennith Lay was a big fat tax fraud artist since Enron had been defrauding the shareholders for years. They were both oil company CEO's right? Dubya was the Gov. of Texas where Enron was based, he must have known right?
The GOP never held a majority in the legislature. Were the GOP member that voted for it? Obviously
Yes, it's a bi-partisan problem. Maybe the GOP representatives should have stuck to their party's supposed credo instead of blowing it out their ass with a huge donation to whiny millionaires. Both sides are at fault, but there's really no point on crying about it now. It's built, it's used, and in 5 - 10 years they will threaten to leave again. Let's just hope Rossi is not in office when this happens cause it sure sounds like he'll cave in as quick as Lowry did.
THERE. YOU. GO. AGAIN. The GOP never held a majority in the legislature.
I said I was wrong @ 49, and you still continue to press the issue. The House was held by the GOP, the Senate was held by the Dem's by one seat. Give it up already. They all voted for it.
Well if they did do something bad, like say kill the homeowner's bill of rights, you'd probably find a way to blame the GOP since even a Democrat super majority ought not be held accountable according to yourself.
Haha, nope. That's all Frank Chopp (D) who coincidentally does not represent my Dist, otherwise I would give serious consideration to voting for his opponent.
Are you talking about Hillary Clintons's antics or the Democrat's disenfranchising the voters of Florida in the primary election?
Hate to tell ya PBJ but it was Gov. Christ (R) who beautify orchestrated this plan. He gave the Dem's something they wanted (paper trail balloting) and they bit along with the GOP controlled legislature who was more than happy to advance their parties primary. I doubt in his wildest dreams saw this coming. Looks like the GOP disenfranchised their voters too since they only have half the number of delegates.
You are saying the voters of Washington State did not pass I-960?
No I was still talking about MI and FL. I don't support the overturning of voter initiatives (unless they break the rules like Tim Eyman did on one of his, can't recall the #). I think Lisa Brown is wrong, I said so before (see comment #58). Get it through your head.
Now under the Democrat super majority, we have an expected deficit of $2.4 billion. Gregoire took us from a surplus to a $2.4 billion deficit.
Yeah, and we're heading into a recession. Woo Hoo! You want to tell me what Mr. Rossi would have done differently so as to stave off the effects of a national recession, credit crisis, and inflation during a time of war? Oh wait, you can't because it would be pure fiction.
Hmm, well using YOUR logic, Democrats voted for the Iraq War. Both sides are at fault,but there's really no point on crying about it now.
"Hate to tell ya PBJ but it was Gov. Christ (R) who beautify orchestrated this plan. "
Really? How did that rascally Republican convince Howard Dean to disallow all the Florida delegates? Do tell. Those reporters must have it all wrong then because they are reporting the DNC refused to seat Florida's delegates because the chose an early primary date. You'd better call the NYT and CNN and tell them they are wrong on this and it is all a plot by the evil Republicans.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 02:49 PMYou want to have it both ways. When the economy is booming it is "Oh look at the Chrissy miracle, isn't she an economic genius?" with zero regard to the booming national economy. And now that the truth of the $2.5 billion deficit comes out it is all Bushes fault. Puhleeeze. You are losing what shread of credibility you may have had.
FACT: We were in a war before Gregoire was selected as Governor so that really cannot be any reason for her deficit.
FACT: Dino Rossi balanced the budget without rasing taxes when he was a state senator. He did that through a combination of reigning in spending and bipartisan cooperation.
Contrast that with Gregoire (the selectee) who promised not to raise taxes and then within 6 months she broker her promise. What is her excuse? Because the people never really elected her to begin with, she isn't responsible for that pledge?
Or is she just a plain everyday ordinary hypocrite like fellow Democrat Elliot Sptizer?
True, but we can leave Iraq, it would seem silly to dismantle a perfectly good stadium. We've already dismantled a perfectly good country, there is not much use sticking around and praying that the Iraqi Govt. gets their s**t together
Those reporters must have it all wrong then because they are reporting the DNC refused to seat Florida's delegates because the chose an early primary date
Cause you have to go back farther than last week dimwit. To set a primary date you need to pass a bill to declare it so. Now we go back to the civics lesson mentioned earlier.
The Florida Dem. representatives decided to take a gamble with Howard Dean vs. Paper Trail Touchscreens they went along. I don't think they could have predicted the mess we see today. A re-vote would be a great way to solve this, but as time passes it seems less and less likely.
Luckily Florida will be all set to have a fair election in November without any butterfly ballots/hanging chads. So when the state goes to McCain in Nov., Florida will have actually have a legit paper trail to prove it.
Haha, I like how you conveniently left out Recession, Credit Crisis, and Inflation. None of which she caused, all of which can lead to a budget deficit.
Dino Rossi balanced the budget without rasing taxes when he was a state senator.
By that logic I can say the same thing about Gregoire when she was Attorney General.
FACT: Christine Gregoire presided over a balanced budget and did not raise taxes when she was the State AG.
Give it up already, anything you got with Rossi as a Governor not getting us into this budget crunch is pure fiction. You can't definitively prove one way or the other that things would be different with Rossi and the Super-Majority Dem's.
When the economy is booming it is "Oh look at the Chrissy miracle, isn't she an economic genius?" with zero regard to the booming national economy.
I'm happy to give credit where credit is due. The NATIONAL economy is in (or going into depending if you ask a Dem or GOP) a recession, who has had control of the national economic policies for the last 7 years? The President. Who let the banks run wild and unchecked? Greenspan. Who got us into Iraq where we spend billions of dollars a week and accomplish very little? The President.
Who gave huge tax breaks to Boeing and Microsoft? Gregoire. Who can't fix the local traffic issues? The state Democrats. Who is responsible for the avalanches that shut down traffic on the I-90 corridor? GOD!!
As you can see there is a difference between a nation economy and a local economy. the national one is driven by the President, the local one is partially driven by the Governor but is directly affected by the national one. She can encourage more companies to move here and do buisness, but she doesn't appoint anything like a local Fed chief.
We can't just run out of Iraq with our tails between our legs. It will fall into civil war or become a terrorist base for attacks against the homeland. Even Clinton and Obama realize this as they have not committed to an immediate unconditional surrender (uh, Democrat "withdrawal") on inaguration day should they win the presidency. Obama wouldn't even commit to leaving Iraq by the end of his first term. Instead he would bomb Pakistan and sit down to tea with Iran.
"...it would seem silly to dismantle a perfectly good stadium. "
Why not? Democrats dismantled a perfectly good stadium when they built Paul Allen his little gift of Quest field. Or have you forgotten the King Dome? Hell they blew that thing up right AFTER a costly rennnovation and before the mortgage was paid. We are STILL paying for that today. On a national level Democrats did a good job under Clinton of dismantling our military. Democrats are experienced in this area.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 03:41 PM
That's right we can stay there for 100 years and everything will be fantastic. Gazillions of dollars later and 50,000 American lives later the Iraq govt. will finally be back to where they were before we invaded. That seems like a happy goal to accomplish.
It will fall into civil war or become a terrorist base for attacks against the homeland
Well at least then we'll know where to find them won't we. Right now they seem to be doing a pretty good at hiding.
Obama wouldn't even commit to leaving Iraq by the end of his first term.
He seems to be campaigning on the idea of phased withdrawal. Seems like a fine option to me. Maybe once the Iraqi Gov. realizes we're not going to cover their asses forever they will start functioning like a real wartime Govt.
Democrats dismantled a perfectly good stadium when they built Paul Allen his little gift of Quest field.
Playing loose with those facts again. Who was the biggest supporter of the new Seahawks stadium? White suburban voters, aka Republicans. At least Paul Allen paid for a good chunk of his stadium the cost overruns. Remember we voted for that one and it passed? Oh wait, use of actual facts doesn't seem to be your strong point.
On a national level Democrats did a good job under Clinton of dismantling our military.
Did they really dismantle it? Seems to me we still had all our armed forces when Bush took office. In 2000 we had the Navy, check. Army, check. Air force, check. Marines, ummm....yup, check. Coast Guard, check.
Can you tell me exactly what they dismantled or are you just using some BS GOP talking point?
FACT: Christine Gregoire presided over a balanced budget and did not raise taxes when she was the State AG."
Well if you are a braindead liberal moron you could. Wait a sec...
See, AG doesn't participate in the budgeting process. A state senator does. It is widely known that Rossi was a successful budgeter when he was in office. That was why KCE had to cheat in 2004 and select Gregoire, who in contrast to saving the state money while AG, in fact cost it over $10 million for failing to file her papers on time.
"Haha, I like how you conveniently left out Recession, Credit Crisis, and Inflation. None of which she caused, all of which can lead to a budget deficit."
Well first off, we are not officially in a recession and any speculation of such is a recent phenomena. Or are you saying that Gregoire lost $2.5 billion in the last 6 months alone?
As recession is defined as:
In macroeconomics, a recession is a decline in a country's gross domestic product (GDP), or negative real economic growth, for two or more successive quarters of a year.
Since this has not occurred, Gregoire cannot use that as a CYA (and if you come back and say it has, you had damned well better provide a source) .
The EEAG Report on the European Economy 2008 states:[35]
" The 2008 performance of the U.S. economy is difficult to predict due to the declining house prices and the subprime crisis, the full impact of which is still unclear. ..., it is not in our view very likely that the U.S. economy will fall into recession. Recessionary tendencies will be counteracted by both low interest rates and a substantial fiscal stimulus programme. Our forecast is that U.S. GDP will grow by 1.7 percent in 2008."
As for interest rates, they are at an all time low. And on March 18th, they should be even lower.
Regardless of any of that, it is not consistent to credit Gregoire with some sort of economic miracle in the years 2004- 2007 because as you said, she doesn't have control over any of those factors and we all remember how liberals were touting her as the economic savior of Washington State ignoring all the good national numbers.
"Give it up already, anything you got with Rossi as a Governor not getting us into this budget crunch is pure fiction. You can't definitively prove one way or the other that things would be different with Rossi and the Super-Majority Dem's."
I certainly can. One merely need look at Rossi's performance as the Chairman of the Senate Ways and Means Committee in 2003 when the state faced the largest dollar deficit in history. In this leadership position, Dino worked across party lines to balance the state budget without raising taxes, while still protecting the most vulnerable.
Gregoire on the other hand has a history of losing the state money going back to her days as AG when she lost us $10 million for failing to file court papers on time. SHe tried to pin it on a subordinate because she didn't have the integrity to take personal responsibility for her poor leadership.
So you give it up. You cannot keep flip flopping back and forth between whether or not Gregoire is responsible for the $2.5 billion budget hole.
She IS responsible for it. She increased spending 33% despite promising she would not raise taxes.
Following the 2003 legislative session, state spending was at $25.2 billion. That number is now $33.4 billion - a 33 percent increase.
Gregoire's latest budget increases state spending by 15 percent, while assuming revenues will increase by around 7.5 percent. This creates an $852 million gap.
Yeah, I think we can do better. We should now put in charge the governor that was elected in 2004, not the one that was selected.
Wow, your good. And a Governor signs the budget. I'm so glad to see you were actually paying attention in civics class.
in fact cost it over $10 million for failing to file her papers on time.
People make mistakes and that person in the office was let go or resigned. I can't recall which. Maybe they were a GOP plant. =P
Well first off, we are not officially in a recession and any speculation of such is a recent phenomena.
Haha, stop kidding yourself. Wow, we're not officially in a recession, we're just in an "economic slowdown" which feels just like a recession in case you haven't noticed. Do yourself a favor and look up the word Stagflation.
As for interest rates, they are at an all time low. And on March 18th, they should be even lower.
that's great, but how low can they go? Japan's interest rates were at 0% for the what seemed like forever in the early 00's and they were in an "economic slowdown" caused by a housing bust as well. Took them six years to get themselves back up to 0.25%
we all remember how liberals were touting her as the economic savior of Washington State ignoring all the good national numbers.
I don't but I'll take your word for it.
Of course this all came before the NATIONAL "economic slowdown", housing crisis, and credit crunch. Maybe the Bush Administration was buying lots of MS software because they certainly we're not buying strike fighters or fuel planes from Boeing. Even WaMu was doing great till they actually had to look at who owned the loans they were dolling out.
In this leadership position, Dino worked across party lines to balance the state budget without raising taxes, while still protecting the most vulnerable.
Good for him, and now he wants to give billions of dollars in handouts to whiny millionaires so they can play basketball in a shiny rebuilt Key Arena. My how the mighty have fallen.
She IS responsible for it. She increased spending 33% despite promising she would not raise taxes.
Arnold S. promised the same thing, he just raised fees instead. Which is the better approach?
That number is now $33.4 billion - a 33 percent increase.
How much did tax revenue grow in comparison? How much has the value of the dollar fallen since then? See you can throw out BS numbers like this but unless you have all the numbers your just talking out your ass. I can say Bush has a 3 trillion dollar budget, but adjusted for inflation it's likely not that bad.
Apologies to Bob Dylan:
"Inflation my friend is blowing in the wind, Inflation is blowing in the wind."
It's like this, the reason oil prices are sky high is not because of increased demand, it's because the value of the dollar used to buy that oil is so low. When the dollar value rises oil prices will go down. Or maybe Pres. Bush can just send VP Cheney over to beg our friends the Saudi's to help us out and increase the supply. Because when Bush asked his good friends the Saudi's for more oil they politely told him to "f**k off". The lesson here is if at first you don't succeed, send the brains of the operation over to plead for more oil.
One merely need look at Rossi's performance as the Chairman of the Senate Ways and Means Committee in 2003
Since you have already proven you can't do simple math, maybe you should think about keeping quiet about economics since that involves lots of numbers and counting and stuff.
As of today, we have lost less than 4,00 troops in Iraq. Over the course of 4 years, that amounts to less than 1,000 per year. A tragic figure to be sure. Since 1975, the average number of deaths due to auto accidents have average over 20,000 per year. So that means you have 20 time more chance of dying in an auto accident than dying in Iraq. And yes I have served, FYI. Have you?
In Vietnam we lost 47,424 from 1964- 1975 and average of 5,269 deaths per year. This reprsents a yearly average greater than the total US casualties of the Iraw war in total.
As for the 100 year comment, like everything liberals quote on Republicans, it is taken out of context in order to make a phoney issue. Here is the real exchange on that:
Last month, at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire, a crowd member asked McCain about a Bush statement that troops could stay in Iraq for 50 years.
"Maybe 100," McCain replied. "As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it's fine with me and I hope it would be fine with you if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where al Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/14/mccain.king/
In otherwords, just like Germany after the war and Japan after the war. Or do you argue those troops should be brought home as well?
"Well at least then we'll know where to find them won't we. Right now they seem to be doing a pretty good at hiding."
We already know they are there. They are flocking to Iraq. Good, let em all come and get their 72 virgins. We are willing to send them on their way. As Tommy Franks said "The Global War on Terrorism will be a long fight. But make no mistake we are going to fight the terrorists. The question is do we fight them over there -- or do we fight them here. I choose to fight them over there."
"He seems to be campaigning on the idea of phased withdrawal. Seems like a fine option to me. Maybe once the Iraqi Gov. realizes we're not going to cover their asses forever they will start functioning like a real wartime Govt."
Seems? He is or he isn't. You don't know and look lik a fool making it up.
"Playing loose with those facts again. Who was the biggest supporter of the new Seahawks stadium? White suburban voters, aka Republicans. At least Paul Allen paid for a good chunk of his stadium the cost overruns. Remember we voted for that one and it passed? Oh wait, use of actual facts doesn't seem to be your strong point."
Well you had better tell that to Darcy Burner then because I keep on hearing how all those Suburbanites are really Democrats. Did Paul Allen pay off the King Dome debt before Democrats blew it up? Oh wait, along with the truth, facts don't appear to be your string suit.
"Did they really dismantle it? Seems to me we still had all our armed forces when Bush took office. In 2000 we had the Navy, check. Army, check. Air force, check. Marines, ummm....yup, check. Coast Guard, check."
Not nearly what we had when Clinton got into office. The active-duty military totaled 1.8-million at the start of his presidency in 1993 and declined to 1.4-million in 2000. The naval fleet shrank dramatically. The Navy had 454 ships in 1993, but as vessels were retired and not replaced, the fleet was down to 341 by 2000.
In the days after 911 we didn't have enough AWACS planes in our fleet to cover the entire country. We had to go begging to NATO for extras.
And who was governor in 2003? Hmm idiot? Please tell us... we're waiting.
The only budgets Gregoire ever signed were those where she increased spending 33% over her time in office. Perhaps THAT and not some nutty Bush conspiracy theory is why we are missing $2.5 billion.
"People make mistakes and that person in the office was let go or resigned. I can't recall which. Maybe they were a GOP plant. =P"
Actually Gregoire tried pinning it on and underling and the underling sued and WON. Yeah people make mistakes, but at $10 million a pop, I'd rather Gregoire make mistakes on her own dime.
"Haha, stop kidding yourself. Wow, we're not officially in a recession, we're just in an "economic slowdown" which feels just like a recession in case you haven't noticed. Do yourself a favor and look up the word Stagflation."
I realize liberal never say what they mean or mean what they say, but stop trying to pass stagflation off as recession. If stagflation = recession then they'd call it recession and not stagflation. By trying to pretend one is the other you only make yourself look MORE foolish.
"that's great, but how low can they go? Japan's interest rates were at 0% for the what seemed like forever in the early 00's and they were in an "economic slowdown" caused by a housing bust as well. Took them six years to get themselves back up to 0.25%"
We haven't been having an econonomic slowdown for more than a few months and you are already to shout as if we are all going to die. You must be a real hoot on scary carnival rides.
"Even WaMu was doing great till they actually had to look at who owned the loans they were dolling out."
Now whose fault is that? Did Bush tell WAMU to give loans out like lollipops regardless of people's ability to pay? Hmm?
"Good for him, and now he wants to give billions of dollars in handouts to whiny millionaires so they can play basketball in a shiny rebuilt Key Arena. My how the mighty have fallen."
"Arnold S. promised the same thing, he just raised fees instead. Which is the better approach?"
Is Gregoire running against Arnold S? I was unaware of this. I guess if Darcy Burner is running against George Bush then it must be true. After all a liberal told me so. ;)
"How much did tax revenue grow in comparison? How much has the value of the dollar fallen since then? See you can throw out BS numbers like this but unless you have all the numbers your just talking out your ass. I can say Bush has a 3 trillion dollar budget, but adjusted for inflation it's likely not that bad."
That is the problem. Gregoire falsely anticipated an increase in tax revenue. Any decline in the dollar is offset by an increase in exports as our goods become less expensive to foreign buyers. As a trade dependent state, we shouldn't have this deficit at all but a surplus. Gregoire couldn't or wuldn't control spending.
"It's like this, the reason oil prices are sky high is not because of increased demand, it's because the value of the dollar used to buy that oil is so low. When the dollar value rises oil prices will go down. "
That little theory might hold water if we were the only nation in the world buying oil. In fact, the price has gone up because the worldwide demand has gone up as China is evolving as a consumer nation. OPEC increasing supply would lower the price.
"Or maybe Pres. Bush can just send VP Cheney over to beg our friends the Saudi's to help us out and increase the supply. Because when Bush asked his good friends the Saudi's for more oil they politely told him to "f**k off". The lesson here is if at first you don't succeed, send the brains of the operation over to plead for more oil."
Or he could threaten to invade. ;)
"Since you have already proven you can't do simple math, maybe you should think about keeping quiet about economics since that involves lots of numbers and counting and stuff."
Since you have proven you can't tell the truth, maybe you should simply stop posting talking points.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 05:34 PMUh yeah, those are some mighty fuzzy numbers your messin with. Should watch what you say.
Let's see...America..country of 303 MILLION. 20k deaths/yr, that's 0.006%.
Troops in Iraq is 132,000. 1000 deaths/yr, so that's 0.76%. Of course that's pre-surge #'s, but still...it looks like your wrong.
Percentage wise it's much safer to drive in America then it is to go to Iraq. Nice try, thanks for playing.
Or do you argue those troops should be brought home as well?
We're still there aren't we? Oh yeah, it's for NATO now. Different enemy, same BS.
The naval fleet shrank dramatically
Ok, and the Navy ships are doing what in Iraq? Fighting the ground war? How about Afghanistan? Landlocked countries are great for Navy's. Oh wait, Iraq has 1 port, we must need our entire fleet to stop the terrorists from winning that port. Oh wait, they got planes too. Woo hoo, air support against a country with no Air Force.
Maybe you can explain how a country that holds an enormous tactical and technological advantage in their favor is not winning in Iraq?
We already know they are there. They are flocking to Iraq.
This is a good thing? So that means they're setting up training camps in Pakistan, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia just so they come come to Iraq. So we now have terrorist cells in three countries so they can come fight in one. How is this progress?
Seems? He is or he isn't. You don't know and look lik a fool making it up.
He's not the President, why does it matter? Tell ya what, why don't you read his policy for yourself and tell me what you think.
In the days after 911 we didn't have enough AWACS planes in our fleet to cover the entire country.
Oh wow, cause you just know an AWAC Plane is really going to put fear in the heart of a suicide bomber on a ferry boat who wants to kill 100's of people and strike fear into the hearts and minds of the nation. Maybe we can Radar those terrorists to death at 50,000 feet.
Well you had better tell that to Darcy Burner then because I keep on hearing how all those Suburbanites are really Democrats
Maybe that's why she keeps loosing, much like your own failed arguments.
Let's see...America..country of 303 MILLION. 20k deaths/yr, that's 0.006%.
Troops in Iraq is 132,000. 1000 deaths/yr, so that's 0.76%. Of course that's pre-surge #'s, but still...it looks like your wrong.
Percentage wise it's much safer to drive in America then it is to go to Iraq. Nice try, thanks for playing.
Of course not all those deaths are combat related. A guy crashes his truck in Iraq, it is the same as crashing it here at home. Some have even died as a result of a tire bursting while they tried to service the vehicle.
At least 3,228 died as a result of hostile action, according to the military's numbers.
http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2008/02/25/us_military_deaths_in_iraq_at_3972/
That makes it 645 deaths per year due to hostile fire per year (War started Mar 19, 2003 that makes it 5 years duration). 645/132000
So that's 0.49%. So percentage wise it is much safer to be a soldier in Iraq that drive in America. Thanks for playing!
"We're still there aren't we? Oh yeah, it's for NATO now. Different enemy, same BS."
I didn't know NATO was our enemy. But after hearing Obama's plan to bomb Pakistan I can understand how you'd get that idea that our allies are our enemies.
The naval fleet shrank dramatically
Ok, and the Navy ships are doing what in Iraq? Fighting the ground war? How about Afghanistan? Landlocked countries are great for Navy's. Oh wait, Iraq has 1 port, we must need our entire fleet to stop the terrorists from winning that port. Oh wait, they got planes too. Woo hoo, air support against a country with no Air Force.
Boy you really are not the sharpest pencil in the box are you? Do you know that a carrier air wing can penetrate over 600 miles into a country? Here is a quiz for you Dumbo: How many ports do China, North Korea, Russia and Iran have? Hmm?
"Maybe you can explain how a country that holds an enormous tactical and technological advantage in their favor is not winning in Iraq?"
Sorry son, that old dog don't hunt. The surge is working. Even your Democrat traitor buddies are shutting up on that one. They (and you) can only pray for a turnaround so the enemy will be victorious over us and you will have an election year issue.
The 'surge' is working - LA Times (hardly a right wing bastion)
"It's obvious what accounts for the more cooperative mood. Notwithstanding all the political hype and hyperbole, events on the ground do matter, and there is no denying that events in Iraq have been moving in the right direction since the surge started. Not even the Democrats deny it. Sens. Jack Reed, Hillary Clinton and Dick Durbin, among others, have acknowledged that, as Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin put it, "The military aspects of President Bush's new strategy in Iraq . . . appear to have produced some credible and positive results."
"This is a good thing? So that means they're setting up training camps in Pakistan, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia just so they come come to Iraq. So we now have terrorist cells in three countries so they can come fight in one. How is this progress?"
You think they didn't have any there before? They have them here in the US (with local liberals helping to set them up here)
Anytime we anger them and draw them out in the open so we can kill them it is a good thing. Of course you liberals would prefer we not listen in when they call their US based cells.
"He's not the President, why does it matter? Tell ya what, why don't you read his policy for yourself and tell me what you think."
And hopefull he will never be president. Anyone who associated with known terorirsts like William Ayers (60's weathermen) and Farrakhan should be nowhere near the war on terror except perhaps guantanimo.
"Oh wow, cause you just know an AWAC Plane is really going to put fear in the heart of a suicide bomber on a ferry boat who wants to kill 100's of people and strike fear into the hearts and minds of the nation. Maybe we can Radar those terrorists to death at 50,000 feet."
Now I KNOW you never served because clearly you have absolutely no idea what AWACS does. Did they use a ferry boat on 911? Funny you mention ferry boats as Democrat Paty Murray squashed a Coast Guard plan to implement airport style security at our ferry terminals in 2003 citing the "inconvenience " to ferry goers (of which I am one).
"Maybe that's why she keeps loosing, much like your own failed arguments."
She is one of yours. As is Elliot Spizter.
Posted by: pbj on March 13, 2008 06:43 PMQuit making excuses, a death is still a death if your in a combat zone even if you get hit by a flying tire iron thrown at you by some dumbass Army private who didn't graduate HS.
Here is a quiz for you Dumbo: How many ports do China, North Korea, Russia and Iran have? Hmm?
I'm sorry, are we at war with any of those countries (other than NK)? I thought Bush looked into Putty Putt's eyes and saw his soul and knew he was a good man. He can't be a treat (except when we force neighboring countries to buy missile shield systems which can't hit a target without a GPS in it) in exchange for defense.
North Korea has nukes, an aircraft carrier or a nuke. Hmmm, which is better. I think I'll take Nuke. They can't keep food on the table, why are they a threat again? Oh yeah, the guy leading is as crazy as our President.
China, last I checked we're their biggest customer, it's bad business to go to war with your biggest customer. Since China seems to be enjoying their great economic prosperity and hosting the Olympic Games this year I hardly see them as a threat. They have lot's of ports for shipping cheap stuff to America. Let's get Bush to free Taiwan, that's the ticket to beating China at their own game.
Iran has lot's of ports, but they're much more technologically advanced and bigger in size than Iraq. If we're having trouble winning in Iraq your going to have a hell of a time in a country where they actually have a very modern economy and some semblance of democracy (yes, they elected their loon of a President). I mean you've already pissed off the Shias, why piss of the Sunni's too? You trying to start the crusades again?
Maybe you haven't noticed, but wars aren't cheap. No one wants a war, they're usually become more unpopular as time goes on. So why start one unless you have a good reason (better than defending your daddy's honor).
And hopefull he will never be president.
Why is that? Is that because the current cowboy diplomacy works so well? Our President is begging for oil from our friends the Saudi's in case you haven't noticed. Oh how the mighty have fallen. Maybe we should try a fresh approach.
Anyone who associated with known terorirsts like William Ayers (60's weathermen) and Farrakhan should be nowhere near the war on terror except perhaps guantanimo .
Heck, send Farrakhan over to Iraq, maybe a Muslim can actually bring peace to the region. If he gets assassinated while over there it's no big loss right?
Why Guantanamo, what has Farrakhan done? Nothing except yap his mouth like Jerry Fawell, Pat Robertson, and Oral Roberts used to do. The only difference between Farrakhan and the aforementioned peoples is he's black and Muslim. Sounds to me like your saying it ok for good white Christian people to blame homosexuals for 9/11, but if a black Muslim guy said that...well that should get him sent to Guantanamo. Man, the stuff that comes out of your mouth.
William Ayers....Zzzzz. Who cares. Clinton and Bush are both associated with people who have done far worse things than some washed up hippie. You don't seem to mind though, as long as their God fearing conservatives.
The 'surge' is working
Uh huh, how many pre-established goals had the Iraqi Govt. met before the Surge? None. How many have they met since the surge? None. Wow, that's some great measurable progress. If the surge is working why don't we send in more troops in and stabilize the country? Better yet, let's have a draft because no one wants to join the military and get sent to Iraq.
Now I KNOW you never served because clearly you have absolutely no idea what AWACS does.
I know exactly what an AWAC does. You're delusional if you think some guy walking around NYC with a bomb strapped to his chest is going to fear a plane with a giant radar on it. I think my Radar him to death at 50k feet was accurate.
Did they use a ferry boat on 911?
Nope they used an airplane, worked great once. Seems like once you've used that option it would be hard to do it again, especially when you can hop on a Greyhound to Omaha without anyone giving you a second look. Much easier, kill less people, but the general effect is the same.
Since all airplanes were grounded for several days after 9/11 it seems pretty hard for someone to try it the next day. Maybe we can expect huge threats from grounded planes.
Funny you mention ferry boats as Democrat Paty Murray squashed a Coast Guard plan to implement airport style security at our ferry terminals in 2003
Funny that, I can imagine that you would no longer be allowed to take your car on a ferry since you could hide a bomb just about anywhere in it. No carry-on's either. No cameras, no portable electronics, no liquids, no scissors, etc. Now your 15 min ferry commute from Whidbey to the mainland turns into a 2hr ordeal each way. That will boost tourism. I think a better idea would be to take the ferry facts offline.
Personally, I think the bomb sniffing dogs are doing a fine job.
In post 73 I said 4,000 troops over 4 years (1,00 per year). CLEARLY YOU DAMNED IDIOT, it has been 5 YEARS! Since that war started on Mar 19,2003 it is 5 years which makes the average 800 per year.
800/132,000 = 0.6%
So, even OVERESTIMATING the number of troops killed (it is really less than 4,000 as o today) over 5 years, you STILL have a higher chance of dying in an automobile accident here in the US.
"I'm sorry, are we at war with any of those countries (other than NK)"
Want to talk about a quagmire! There is another one of those countries that a Democrat (TRUMAN) got us into and we have been stuck there, well going on 100 years!
"China, last I checked we're their biggest customer, it's bad business to go to war with your biggest customer. Since China seems to be enjoying their great economic prosperity and hosting the Olympic Games this year I hardly see them as a threat. They have lot's of ports for shipping cheap stuff to America."
We traded a lot with Japan in 1941 too. Germany and Poland traded a lot too prior to the Blitzkreig. You and your party are so ignorant regarding military matters you should never ever ever be near being put in charge of the military.
"Let's get Bush to free Taiwan, that's the ticket to beating China at their own game."
And when China decides to hop across the strait to invade Taiwan how are you going to defend it, with spitballs? Thanks to Democrat traitors giving up our defense secrets to Communist China in exchange for campaign monies (Where is Wen Ho Lee?), we don't have nearly the technological edge over the world tat we once did.
Remember Johnny Chung? Of course you don't. You would prefer the people forget that Chung told federal investigators that China's military intelligence chief, General Ji Shengde, directed $300,000 to Chung's private bank account - money that was intended to "subsidize" campaign contributions to the Clinton/Gore reelection campaign.
How do you think China got to the point where they now have a guided missile destroyer that can go toe to toe with the best we have when 15 years ago the best they could muster were Chinese WWII class vessels?
Are you aware that China now has nuclear class subs that are a good match to ours? Are you aware that over the past 30 years China has undergone a massive military buildup?
"Maybe you haven't noticed, but wars aren't cheap. No one wants a war, they're usually become more unpopular as time goes on. So why start one unless you have a good reason (better than defending your daddy's honor)."
So now you think we started the war on 911? What a traitorous little liberal nutjob you are indeed. Not really surprised, as liberals such as yourself have been doing everything in your power to assure our defeat against islamofascism from day one. You can't jail the terorrists, that is too cruel. You can't listen in on their phone calls, terrorist have the right to privacy. You can't go after them in their own country.
Hell, you liberals have even been helping to set up terrorist training camps for the enemy right here in the Northwest:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/04/14/Ujaama.plea/index.html
I guess lot's of Democrats wanted to "Defend daddy' honor as well" :
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 | Source
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 | Source
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 | Source
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 | Source
"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998 | Source
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 | Source
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998 | Source
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 | Source
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999 | Source
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002 | Source
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 | Source
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 | Source
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 | Source
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 | Source
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 | Source
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 | Source
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002 | Source
Well let's see what has come of that "cowboy Diplomacy" shall we:
Since 911, no terorrists have able to smash planes into any more sky scrapers in the homeland. No US Embassies in freindly countries have been blown up. Top leaders of AQ have been eliminated, the rest are in hiding and we have stopped numerous acts of terrorism thanks to the Patriot Act (which Democrats opposed) and the newly created (no thanks to Democrats who tried to block it) Dept of Homeland Security.
Bush's tough stance has inspired others too. In the Ukraine, the people saw a corrupted elections process run by thugs and, unlike the people of Wash State, they marched and demanded Democracy. This was dubbed the Orange revolution.
In Lebanon, after years of Democrat appeasement policy towards the Syrian occupiers, Bush's "Cowboy Diplmacy" inspired the people to rise up against their Syrian occupiers and they ejected them. For the first time in decades, the Lebanese people were free of a Syrian occupation that Democrats tacitly supported by looking the other way. This was dubbed the Cedar Revolution.
After seeing that Bush was serious, as not a limp wristed wimp like Clinton or Carter, Lybian dictator Mohmar Ghadaffi voluntarily stopped his nuclear development program and turned over all materials to the US. Their nuclear weapons program was dismantled without firing a shot. The prospects of the former terrorist sponsoring nation to join the family of Democracies has never been better.
Putting a naive fool in charge of the greatest nation on earth will result in revisit of the Carter years. We will get our asses kicked all over the world. Our economy will return to the Carter days of 21% inflation, 15% unemployment, a hollow military where helicopters cannot even fly over the dessert without them all crashing because the underfunded demoralized military that cannot keep them flying dues to lack of spare parts. Dictators will kick our asses from one end of the world to the other. We will probably see a nuclear explosion in an American city if not several simultaneously.
We live in a dangerous world where we cannot afford 4 more years of Carter style foolish naivete. And as for oil, in case you don't recall, we couldn't get any at ANY price under Carter.
Of course I have to rehash all this history because your Marxist indocrination in the public indoctrination school system never taught you yoru nation's history.
Do you think for one minute that if Obama bombed Pakistan, as he stated he would, that would not start a war with nuclear armed, Islamic Pakistan?
Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region.
"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0132206420070801
So you can mock Bush as a "cowboy Diplomat" all you want. As someone who has never put his life on the line to defend his country, I would expect no less from you. You get the benefit of freedoms without having to sacrifice for them. So of course you make no connection between sacrifice and freedom. Your freedom has been handed to you by others on a silve platter akin o some spoiled rich kid getting his beef wellington delivered by the butler. Of course there is not connection between the hard work and the meal.
The world is a dangerous place. History is rife with cautionary tales of weak nations being gobbled up by larger ones. Your kind would return us to our knees to be gobbled up by others. Thank GOD for the cowboy diplomat.
Posted by: pbj on March 14, 2008 07:05 AMIn case you hadn't been told, Iraq is filled predominantly with Muslims. They have been at each other's throats for hundreds of years. The only reason they weren't fighting each other under Saddam is because they were being oppressed under Saddam's iron fist. They were all too busy trying to keep from being hauled away in the night by Saddam's henchmen to worry about religous differences.
"Why Guantanamo, what has Farrakhan done? Nothing except yap his mouth like Jerry Fawell, Pat Robertson, and Oral Roberts used to do. The only difference between Farrakhan and the aforementioned peoples is he's black and Muslim. Sounds to me like your saying it ok for good white Christian people to blame homosexuals for 9/11, but if a black Muslim guy said that...well that should get him sent to Guantanamo. Man, the stuff that comes out of your mouth."
Oh stop the race baiting. I never said any such thing, so that straw man isn't going anywhere.
What has Farrakhan done? Let's take a look at this man, shall we?
The current leader of the Nation of Islam (NOI), Louis Farrakhan was born Louis Eugene Walcott on May 11, 1933 in Roxbury, Massachusetts. As a young man in Boston, he became a popular entertainer as a calypso singer, dancer, and violinist. While in Chicago in February 1955, he was invited by a friend to attend a Nation of Islam Saviours' Day Convention at a local mosque. Soon thereafter Farrakhan joined NOI.
In the 1960s Farrakhan developed a strong enmity toward fellow NOI member Malcolm X, who backed a more moderate vision of black civil rights than did Farrakhan. When Malcolm in 1964 publicly revealed that NOI leader Elijah Muhammad had impregnated several of his teenage secretaries, Farrakhan, outraged at what he perceived to be Malcolm's disloyalty, called him a traitor and denounced him in the NOI newspaper Muhammad Speaks: "Only those who wish to be led to hell, or to their doom, will follow Malcolm. The die is set, and Malcolm shall not escape, especially after such evil, foolish talk about his benefactor; such a man is worthy of death and would have been met with death if it had not been for Muhammad's confidence in Allah for victory over his enemies." Ten weeks later, on February 21, 1965, Malcolm X was killed in Harlem's Audubon Ballroom by three gunmen with ties to NOI.
As recently as 1993, Farrakhan tried to justify Malcolm X's assassination when he said in a speech, "Was Malcolm your traitor or ours? And if we dealt with [Malcolm] like a nation deals with a traitor, what the hell business is it of yours? A nation has to be able to deal with traitors and cutthroats and turncoats."
In 1984 Farrakhan issued another death threat against someone he perceived to be a race traitor. After a black Washington Post reporter named Milton Coleman publicly revealed that presidential candidate Jesse Jackson had referred to Jews as "Hymies" and to New York City as "Hymietown," Farrakhan told Coleman: "One day soon we will punish you with death."
Farrakhan also has a long, well-documented history of venom-laced references to the "white devils" and Jewish "bloodsuckers" who purportedly decimate America's black community from coast to coast. He has referred to Judaism as a "gutter religion," and to Adolf Hitler as "a great man" -- though he later claimed that he had meant only that Hitler was "wickedly great." He has made innumerable statements depicting whites and Jews as loathsome, racist oppressors of blacks.
In August 1997, the New York Amsterdam News quoted Farrakhan stating, "A decree of death has been passed on America. The judgment of God has been rendered and she must be destroyed."
In March 2000 the Philadelphia Inquirer quoted Farrakhan saying, "White people are potential humans ... they haven't evolved yet." At other times, he has referred to whites as "vicious beasts" and "the skunks of the planet." Additional noteworthy Farrakhan statements include the following:
* "It is an act of mercy to white people that we end your world. ... We must end your world and bring in a new world."
* "We [blacks] are at war and we never stop fighting for justice. You must have force. ... don't drop your gun and don't forget to squeeze."
* "You [Jews] are wicked deceivers of the American people. You have sucked their blood. You are not real Jews (who everyone knows were black) You are the synagogue of Satan, and you have wrapped your tentacles around the US government, and you are deceiving and sending this nation to hell... . But if you choose to crucify me (subtle reference to the Deicide charge), know that Allah will crucify you."
* "Listen, Jewish people don't have no hands that are free of the blood of us [blacks]. They owned slave ships. They bought and sold us. They raped and robbed us."
On numerous occasions, Farrakhan has made alliances with avowed foreign enemies of the United States. In January 1996, for instance, he formed a partnership with Libyan dictator Muammar Qadhafi, who pledged $1 billion to help Farrakhan develop a Muslim political lobby in the U.S. According to Libya's official news agency Jana, Qadhafi announced: "We agreed with Louis Farrakhan and his delegation to mobilize in a legal and legitimate form the oppressed minorities -- and at their forefront the blacks, Arab Muslims and Red Indians -- for they play an important role in American political life and have a weight in U.S. elections." The Jana story further stated that Qadhafi and Farrakhan had pledged to fight America from the "inside." "Our confrontation with America," said Qadhafi, "was [previously] like a fight against a fortress from outside, and today [with the NOI alliance] we found a breach to enter into this fortress and confront it."
This was not Farrakhan's first friendly encounter with Qadhafi. Eleven years earlier, the Libyan strongman had granted NOI a $5 million interest-free loan, in gratitude for which Farrakhan later visited Libya to personally thank his benefactor. Qadhafi once told a crowd of NOI followers at a Chicago convention that he sought to sponsor an armed black revolution in America. On yet another occasion, Farrakhan and his aides -- violating a travel ban imposed on Americans by Presid