February 06, 2008
Caucuses & the Primary

With attention turning to Washington state, remember you can find out more about attending your Republican caucus here and your Democratic caucus here. If you can't find and don't know your own precinct information to find your caucus with either party you can either contact your county auditor's office or use Stefan's handy voter database to look yourself up.

Also, pudge's point about the primary bears repeating: follow the instructions properly and mark your party selection when you vote. If you don't, your vote won't be counted in the race you've selected.

Posted by Eric Earling at February 06, 2008 07:19 AM | Email This
Comments
1. I don't like the R's "loyalty oath." It requires the voter to swear that they're a "member" of the Republican party. I'm not, and don't plan to be.

Posted by: Obi-Wan on February 6, 2008 08:07 AM
2. That's why they did it. Except, you would be more honest and you are probably more R than many tens of thousands who will take the oath and vote.

Sometimes, Republicans just want to abuse themselves.

Posted by: swatter on February 6, 2008 08:10 AM
3. Of course one theory on the oath was to depress the Ron Paul vote by libertarians.

Of course it makes it simple, just don't vote in it (Caucuses/Primary). Then, the Republicans (and Democrats) will see how few people they actually have in the state. They continue to insist on holding caucuses so that only so-called party people pick the candidates. Then, they wonder why turnout keeps getting lower and lower. Both parties aren't concerned about the will of the people.

Posted by: tc on February 6, 2008 08:40 AM
4. Not sure how one party can allow a primary vote to carry weight when the other party's primary vote means nothing. Why wouldn't any rabid anti-Republican Democrat voter simply mark their ballot as Republican and vote for one of our least conservative candidates? BTW, do we have a genuine conservative in this race? And if not, why not?

Posted by: MJC on February 6, 2008 08:51 AM
5. tc: They continue to insist on holding caucuses so that only so-called party people pick the candidates. ... Both parties aren't concerned about the will of the people.

So by being concerned about the will of their actual members, they therefore aren't concerned about the will of the people?

Why bother having a party at all if you are going to ignore what the actual members of the party think?

Posted by: pudge on February 6, 2008 09:33 AM
6. #1 Obiwan - EXACTLY! I couldn't agree more!

Pudge -- you have a good point, so my decision was to step aside and let the Republican Party members make their choice. I refused to sign the "loyalty" oath and therefore declined to vote in the primary.

I am a Conservative, not a Republican.

Posted by: Dick on February 6, 2008 09:47 AM
7. #6

Well, if you're not a republican, then how could you claim a voice in who the republican party puts forward as a candidate? It sounds like some people want to have it both ways. Personally I don't see any point in opting out of the process, but it that's what you want to do, then you shouldn't complain about it.

Republicans and Democrats vote in the party primaries for the same reason that the vote is (or should be) restricted to residents of washington. After all, why shouldn't folks from Victoria have a voice? They have an opinion, too.

Note that the positions of candidates are *not* state positions, but party positions. Nothing is preventing people from forming another party that they *do* like, or running as an independent.

Posted by: bfr on February 6, 2008 09:57 AM
8. bfr, signs, signs, you have to have a membership card to get inside.

I consider myself to be a democrat....that is the box to check if you want to vote democrat.

I am a member of the Republican party......

Hmmmmm...How many people here have an actual membership card from the Republican Party? I have membership cards from a number of conservative groups, I've been a delegate for the R's at a state convention, but I don't carry a membership card from the Republican party.

Maybe I shouldn't have checked that box, did I just lie by saying I'm a Member? I haven't lied for 19 years (I'm trying to prove a person can actually not lie in their life if they try to), I guess it must be time to start over.

Posted by: Doug on February 6, 2008 10:06 AM
9. Pudge,
Why have a parties when they don't represent the majority of the people? In this modern age, what do parties really offer? Part of my main problem is that both parties appear to want to cater to the extremes. What one is seeing in this election is the revenge of the middle. The middle is sick and tired of the politics as usual. They want the parties to move to them.

Why do you think changing offices to non-partisan races, like has happened in Pierce County for all but a few offices, is so popular?

Posted by: tc on February 6, 2008 10:08 AM
10. Have we come to this now, where we have to "swear" a loyalty oath? To a party if we want to vote? We're getting to the point where we are no better than the old Soviet Union, or some other Socialist third world hell hole where loyalty to the party is tantamount. I was under the impression that we are all Americans and have the God given freedoms espoused in our Constitution, chief among then being the freedom of choice. I see no real choice here, what I see is the continuing spiral of liberal left dominance that has turned Washington State into pretty much a laughing stock - kind of like Berkeley and San Francisco.

Posted by: Orzel on February 6, 2008 10:14 AM
11. "Why have a parties when they don't represent the majority of the people? In this modern age, what do parties really offer? Part of my main problem is that both parties appear to want to cater to the extremes." - tc

Where the heck have you been the last 8 years? Bush = middle of the road, not extreme. McCain even more so! The problem with the GOP today is that they are too much Democratlite and not extreme enough! The ideological battle in America today should be conservatism and classic liberalism vs. statism and fascism, not statism vs. statismlite.

Posted by: AP on February 6, 2008 10:49 AM
12. AP,
If you think Bush was middle of the road, then it must not be a road in the US. Bush may be in the middle of the conservative wing of the Republican Party, but definately not the country. I would hate to see someone on the "right" side of the road that Bush is in the middle.

Posted by: tc on February 6, 2008 11:04 AM
13. ..while I cringe at the thought of seeing rabid leftists Hillary or Obama in the Oval Office. Obama is rated the most leftist U.S. Senator. (no thank you)

Posted by: Michele on February 6, 2008 11:26 AM
14. tc,

If the linear spectrum we use is powerful big government vs. small government, Bush is totally middle of the road. Since being President is being the CEO of Govt., government is the primary issue, and using that as a gauge, the GOP is way too middle of the road, including Bush.

Posted by: AP on February 6, 2008 11:27 AM
15. Michele,

I will vote for Obama over McCain. McCain is so destructive, it is better for the GOP and country that he loses. I won't vote for Hillary however.

If you don't want to lose in 2008, you still have some time to support Romney.

Posted by: AP on February 6, 2008 11:30 AM
16. the last time I didn't vote for the Republican nominee for president, I got a big, fat tax increase from the likes of Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend. I just can't afford the democrats.

Posted by: Michele on February 6, 2008 11:54 AM
17. When checking the Republican oath box on the ballot, keep in mind that someday, somewhere, someone may ask you:

Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Republican Party?

Posted by: tim on February 6, 2008 12:19 PM
18. tc: Why have a parties when they don't represent the majority of the people?

Ummmm. Sorry, I don't understand the question at all. MOST political parties throughout history do not represent a majority of the people, and even when they do, it is usually for only a short time. I cannot understand why "not representing the majority" should have any bearing on a party's existence.

A party exists for one reason: to further the political interests of the members of that party. Indeed, a better question is the opposite: why have a party if it DOES represent the majority?


In this modern age, what do parties really offer? Part of my main problem is that both parties appear to want to cater to the extremes. What one is seeing in this election is the revenge of the middle.

So if you don't like parties, then why should you care to help the party pick their nominee?

Posted by: pudge on February 6, 2008 12:35 PM
19. McCain is so destructive, it is better for the GOP and country that he loses.

One of the long term effects any president can leave on the country is the selection of Supreme Court justices and Federal judges.

Policies and [congressional] legislation can be overcome by public outcry and elections. Legislating from the bench, or poor decisions from the bench are virtually permanent.

Would Clinton or Obama selections to the courts really be better for the country?

Would a Clinton or Obama, coupled with stronger Democratic majorities in Congress be better for the country?

If this were to happen, would we see the Federal version of what we have right now in this state? Would this be better for the country?

Posted by: SouthernRoots on February 6, 2008 12:57 PM
20. The primary system was setup during a time when service organizations and political parties were going strong. That time has long gone.

In fact, I heard it mentioned that the State constitution setup the primary system. Therefore, the State pays for them. Remember, there really weren't a whole lot of independents back in those days.

If I have to pay for a primary, by golly, I like to vote and should be able to vote. And I plan on it.

Posted by: swatter on February 6, 2008 01:04 PM
21. pudge (@ 18),

I think the concern is that because we've, for whatever reason, entered into a situation where the parties are the only entities with a real shot at winning the election, folks have no choice but to have a vested interest in the choice of that party.

I think it would be a lot more appropriate to force people to declare themselves among your party to choose who will represent you if the two parties didn't have a virtual monopoly on national office.

To some degree I think the parties have brought this onto themselves, because they have consistently worked to marginalize third parties (those that don't do it to themselves, anyway) and create the mindset that it's only R vs. D.

But, to be fair, I'm also not a fan of forcing people to do something for the 'public good', so I'm merely pointing out why folks make comments like that and not suggesting it should change.

Furthermore, if you had to declare R/D to vote in any primary for that candidate, leading to more extremist candidates in each camp, maybe people would actually go third party once in awhile, so it might not be bad anyway.

Posted by: Andrew Brown on February 6, 2008 01:13 PM
22. To vote in the primary, you will need to be a registered voter.

Do you have to be a registered voter to vote in a caucus?

Posted by: SouthernRoots on February 6, 2008 01:17 PM
23. McCain is the best republican we've had to vote for in 20 years.

He would have won in 2000 if Rove hadn't smeared him from here to Sunday.

McCain is straight, indepenent and NOT a party lemming.

He offers everything we want in a leader...especially in times of war.

This guy can beat Hilary easily...and inexperienced Obama with some good old fashioned straight talk.

Go McCain GO!!!!!!

Posted by: McCain Supporter on February 6, 2008 01:20 PM
24. Andrew Brown: I think the concern is that because we've, for whatever reason, entered into a situation where the parties are the only entities with a real shot at winning the election, folks have no choice but to have a vested interest in the choice of that party.

Well, I agree, except for that they do have a choice: they can work on alternatives. This is all about liberty and democracy. The R and D parties are as powerful as they are because voters chose for them to be powerful, and continue to do so. Granted, maybe if there were a ready alternative, they would choose something else, but no one ever said liberty was easy.


To some degree I think the parties have brought this onto themselves, because they have consistently worked to marginalize third parties (those that don't do it to themselves, anyway) and create the mindset that it's only R vs. D.

Oh sure. I am the first to blame the parties when they do something wrong. I criticized the GOP oath in question on this site just the other day, and I have long been highly critical of all efforts to exclude third parties, such as when I voted for Harry Browne in 1996 just because Bob Dole worked to exclude Ross Perot from the debates sponsored illegally by the Commission on Presidential Debates. (Also, I lived in MA, where my vote literally made no difference one way or another, so I figured I'd use it as a protest vote.)

I understand why people hate the parties, or hate what the parties do. But the bottom line is the parties get to make choices for themselves, and that this is not only the way it HAS to be, but the way it SHOULD be.

Posted by: pudge on February 6, 2008 02:03 PM
25. McCain supporter.
If your talking about the phone calls that said bad sufff about John. It was PROVEN it never came from Rove or GW.

But when McCain was asked to release all their phone records, he said no!

You really want to stick with that.

Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on February 6, 2008 02:20 PM
26. me@22. Read first, post second. Eric included links to all the information about caucus's and clicking on them didn't hurt a bit.

Take a deep breath, slow down a bit.

All better now.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on February 6, 2008 03:29 PM
27. Huckabee finished first in Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee and West Virginia. They got hit by tornadoes!! It can't be a coincidence.

Should we blame McCain, Romney or Huckabee ?

Posted by: Mike on February 6, 2008 03:39 PM
28. Huckabee finished first in Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee and West Virginia. They got hit by tornadoes!! It can't be a coincidence.

Should we blame McCain, Romney or Huckabee ?

Heard John Kerry today. The cause of the tornadoes was ........ Global Warming and the fact that we are doing too little to combat it.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on February 6, 2008 03:45 PM
29. SR@28,

Yes, apparently it's all due to Global Warming! I'm surprised Kerry didn't actually call them "Gore-nadoes".

Posted by: Smoley on February 6, 2008 04:38 PM
30. This just frosts me! In previous primary elections the party choice was on the ballot itself. Why did they move it to the security envelope? The ballot instruction (printed right on the ballot)said to mark the party choice, but they didn't say where. They could have said "On the security envelope" I looked all over the ballot several times, asked my wife to look also.

Luckily, being economic conservatives, we never mail our ballots. We drop them off at the precinct on election day, so we will simply have to steam open the the outer envelope to repair our flawed ballot.

Posted by: Tadpole on February 6, 2008 07:52 PM
31. Huckabee finished first in Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee and West Virginia. They got hit by tornadoes!!

They also don't wear shoes.

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one. FWIW, half my family is from Arkansas. :-)


Tadpole: In previous primary elections the party choice was on the ballot itself.

Note that this is a presidential preference primary, which is not a normal primary. It follows different rules.

I have two guesses why it is on the outside: maybe because of the length of the oath (which is not allowed on the normal primary ballot) it wouldn't fit on the ballot, or maybe because they had a need to be able to pre-sort the ballots, which means it has to be on the outside.

However, you're right, this is bad and a poor design and many votes are not being counted because of it.

Posted by: pudge on February 6, 2008 11:41 PM
32. Bad news, dudes (and dudettes), like it or not, both parties have the "loyalty" oath on the ballot and at the caucus as required by state law. The oaths are virtually identical, except that the Democrats capitalized the spelling of their party for more visibility.

If you are a Pierce County resident, by the way, you can find your caucus location at www.piercegop.org. Have fun at the caucuses but be a bit careful getting there. Many of the Pierce County Republican caucuses share their location (different rooms, naturally) with the Democrats.

Posted by: Deryl McCarty on February 7, 2008 10:08 AM
33. Deryl: there is no requirement for the parties to have an oath on the ballot, there is a requirement for there to be an oath IF the PARTIES require it. You may have meant that, I don't know; just clarifying.

Also, I think there is no oath for our GOP caucuses in Snohomish County. I looked at all the paperwork and saw none, but I don't have it in front of me to doublecheck.

Also, there is one huge difference, much more significant than capitalization: the Democratic oath says "I consider myself a Democrat" while the GOP one says "I am a member of the Republican Party." You may think those are the same, but a great many people disagree.

Posted by: pudge on February 7, 2008 03:11 PM
34. I just read Cornfield's last article. It seems the revered Pete Jackson, son of Scoop Jackson, and still a Democrat party hack decided to vote Republican.

I am assuming pudge and the local Republicans are going to be all over it.

Posted by: swatter on February 7, 2008 04:46 PM
35. Tim asks us: "When checking the Republican oath box on the ballot, keep in mind that someday, somewhere, someone may ask you:

Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Republican Party?

To which I respond: Yeah.... it'll be someone wearing a black uniform with a death's head on one collar and a "D" on the other.

Posted by: Hinton on February 7, 2008 06:57 PM
36. swatter: huh, I was mentioned in that article. They said I was excited about Super Tuesday. I wasn't ... and dang, I am not sure how I could have palpably projected something I didn't have!

As to Pete Jackson, huh. So he is actually a Republican now.

Posted by: pudge on February 7, 2008 09:07 PM
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