The Seattle PI approves of banning plastic bags at "large chain grocery stores", but thinks the ban should be more general. Letter writer Patricia Warren replied, suggesting that the PI give up its own plastic bags. (Don't count on that happening soon. The rains in this area are rough on newspapers left outside without protection.)
Cross posted at Jim Miller on Politics.
Posted by Jim Miller at January 23, 2008 12:28 PM | Email ThisIt will be interesting to see what happens if the plastic bag ban goes through. I know I won't shop at any stores that ban plastic bags, because the price of the alternatives is greater, and will be passed on in the form of higher prices.
Why pay more for a program that has the reverse effect of intent, even from the Progressives who propose the ban. It is well documented that recycled paper bags and starch bags take much more energy to produce than plastic bags. That's more greenhouse gases. And plastic bag users are far more likely to voluntarily recycle the bags into their own home uses they are with paper bags. The plastic bags are strong and less permeable. There are hundreds of home uses for plastic bags that don't work for paper. And if there's no longer a supply of those cheap plastic bags from grocery trips, folks will purchase the bags anyway for those same home uses.
This is misguided legislation that is so typical of those who feel first and think second.
Posted by: Jeff B. on January 23, 2008 12:51 PMIf they won't comply willingly, then taxes must be increased to mould their behaviour and to provide government the funds to "fix" the problems the non-believers create.
How will this law impact Seattle's plan to force recycling compliance by using only clear trash bags?
Which laws infringe on our liberty and freedom more? National Security laws or Environmental laws?
Which one impacts everyone visibly every single day?
My free speech is restricted depending on what I may want to say, by where I may be, and by who I might offend.
My property rights are severely restricted because I might use my property in a manner that does not conform to ideals of environmentalism.
If I am a white male, I am automatically guilty of racism regardless of my actual behaviour.
My ability to practice my religion is partially guaranteed only if I am at home, and if nobody knows it. If I am in a public area, or an area where someone else might be offended, then I must cease and desist the practice of my religion.
If I can't or won't use public transportation, then I must have a transponder put in my car so that the government can track when and where I go so that they can tax me accordingly.
None of these restrictions came about because of the Patriot Act.
Posted by: SouthernRoots on January 23, 2008 01:12 PMAnd who are the fascists? Why is those bible-thumping Republicans, trying to impose their morals on everyone.
Posted by: russell garrard on January 23, 2008 02:34 PMTrue, but now my Govt. now has free reign to listen in on any of my private phone calls without telling me, a judge, or anyone else for that matter.
The Govt. can now come into my home without a warrant, search the place, and hold me without bail until I give Law Enforcement something they can use at my trial (assuming I get one).
If I go to trial, the prosecution can present classified evidence against me (which neither my lawyer [if I get one at all] or myself can see) will be made up of hearsay, information obtained by torture, or just plain made up.
Thank you Patriot Act for taking away my Constitutional rights should I ever be declared an "enemy combatant".
Yawn.....................
Well, actually that falls into the "Not a bad thing" category. Solve the problem by cancelling the local paper. I did... in 1995... haven't missed it yet.
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Poor Yuck, still convinced his koolaid is really a Chateau Lafite Bordeaux.
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Re the garbage police... I simply can't wait till the day that Seattle discovers the resultant rat, maggot and general vermin problem, drawn by the odors of unwrapped rotting food and the "juices" of decomposition leeching into the ground from unsealed yard waste containers. It will be the well deserved poetic justice of unintended consequences.
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Army/Medic... there's a post on the publilc blog with your name on it!
If you wanted people to switch, give them an incentive to do so. If you offer people 5-10% of their total purchase for 6-12 months if they use Nanny State Bags, you would see a dramatic decrease in the number of plastic bags used.
As for myself, I reuse most of the plastic bags and recycle the ones I don't. I only get paper bags when I have a lot of paper stuff to recycle. I don't appreciate having the handles detach or the bottom split out at inopportune moments. In fact, I ask for double paper bags because of these problems.
This will just be another cost passed on to the consumers via social engineering. If the loons in Olympia were really serious about reducing the use of oil, they can start by giving up their cars and having the govenor walk the two feet to her office.
Posted by: Burdabee on January 23, 2008 03:27 PMIt's got nothing to do with "the environment" or "the children" or "future generations"; it's all control. Environmentalists are like watermelons: Green on the outside, Red on the inside.
Posted by: Frank Black on January 23, 2008 03:33 PMWhy would they be unsealed Ragnar? The one I have in my yard is designed to keep out the four legged vermin we have around here. Doubt it would stop a bear, but the only time I see those in the city is at the Zoo.
The juices of decomp will actually help new life grow....life feeds on waste. In fact I fertilize my lawn with the decomp I get from cutting my grass and sticking it in a pile for a month.
Ragnar, you really should tale a basic biology class. You might learn something.
These enviro-wackos make me laugh.
Hey Mr.Yuck, they tried the same thing in Calif for a few years and it didn't help out much, but don't stop.
Did anyone see the news in Russia, they set a record low in temps. Some like -56 deg's!
OUCH!
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on January 23, 2008 04:00 PM
Yeah, yeah, my grass clipping can lid is "sealed" too... when it's not warped, when it's not over flowing and when it's clamped down properly... the problem isn't the lid, kiddo. The problem is where the axis for the wheels insert in one side then come out of the other side of into the can. OOPS!
Yucky, you should really take a basic logic class... or talk to someone in the solid waste business... you might learn something.
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on January 23, 2008 04:03 PMBut banning plastic bags makes these infantile fools "feel" better.
You still have the freedom to go to Afghanistan, buy or steal an AK-47 and ammunition, yell 'Bush Lied' and 'Allah akbar' and take a shot at some Americans. You can meet interesting people and blow them up. Then you'll be a REAL enemy combatant, and get your nifty decoder ring and stuff, and get an all-expense vacation to a nice island in the Caribbean. Oh, do please go for it.
Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on January 23, 2008 06:26 PMWhat next will be banned or taxed!
So as I get inline, I will put my Nazi boots and I will march to the tune!
I now agree that all and I do mean all plastic bags be banned.
No garbage can liners anywhere
No PI or Times plastic bag delivery liners
No doggy bag crap bags
No Glad Food bags
No Cereal freshness bags
No Saran wrap or grocery store meat wrapping plastic
I'm sure I have missed a few million items they can ban in 60 days.
Their last 60 days
Posted by: GS on January 23, 2008 08:32 PM
Really, the store bag thing is just feel-goodness. They will still offer plastic produce bags and plastic pudding cups (not that i eat anything from a plastic pudding cup, but they sure are selling them, aren't they??)
Posted by: Michele on January 23, 2008 10:21 PMHAHA! Exactly...it's all about feel-goodness. You know, I feel good when I coast down hills while driving to save myself gas...er, I mean, save the environment.
I'm sorry, but I LIKE my plastic bags, thankyouverymuch. I don't just throw them away after I use them, either. They're great for small trash can liners, sack lunches, dirty clothes from a trip, dirty shoes, disposal of cat crap from the litter box, dinky parachutes for your kids, and kites (dental floss + plastic grocery bag + wind = cheap toy and hours of fun).
Plastic bags are totally reusable...AND, they're easier to carry than most paper bags.
Posted by: Cydney on January 23, 2008 11:41 PMYeah, um, can someone please inform them what "given" actually means?
"even China is making some changes there."
Frankly, I find this very telling: the Seattle P-I is directly implying that we should follow the socialist policy of an openly communist state.
Posted by: pudge on January 24, 2008 09:09 AMConsidering ALL of the uses of plastics in the United States, how big of a dent would banning plastic grocery bags make? How much net energy would it actually save? How much plastic waste would it actually remove from the environment?
How about the sponsors of the bill doing something like a reality show - "One week without plastic". On the show, they promise to go without anything that uses plastic - except for the production equipment taping the show - for a whole week.
No computers, no telephones, no electricity, no cars, no toilets, limited selections on food, no microphone to grandstand with.....
Maybe they will see that this idea is an expensive "feel good" measure that really has very little effect on the amount of plastic used.
Posted by: SouthernRoots on January 24, 2008 09:29 AMcotton shopping bags & natural bags sound good, but isn't cotton a high-maintenance and intense soil-depleting/high pesticide crop? anyone know? i thought i read that somewhere; i also thought recycling the plastic bags uses much less energy and creates things like benches & durable decking & stuffing for sleeping bags/clothes? is it that much of a bugaboo product?
banning bags is a quick feel good fix for politicians; solving long-term problems (with broader all-production-costs view) in not in their nature; too bad for us voters; any pols ever run a real business? doubt it;
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on January 24, 2008 10:38 PMI always thought that commercial was rather interesting.
Posted by: Cydney on January 25, 2008 04:19 PM