January 19, 2008
Gregoire Blames Environmentalists For Viaduct Delays

On Up Front with Robert Mak, Governor Gregoire was asked if the replacement of the Alaskan Way Viaduct is the biggest public safety threat in Seattle, why has nothing been done for the last seven years, including three years with her as governor?

Gregoire said, yes, it is the most threat, and that there were two reasons why it's not been fixed yet: first, because Transportation was not reporting directly to her until 2005, and second, because if they didn't do environmental impact studies, they'd get sued.

Unfortunately, she does not take the next logical step and say that our current environmental impact study process is clearly doing more potential harm than good. So we'll continue to waste time and money and, potentially, lives, by bowing to the altar of Gaia. Of course, that's not to say that we should completely ignore the environment. But we clearly take it way too far, often doubling the time and cost of projects, for no clear benefit whatsoever.

Cross-posted on <pudge/*>.

Posted by pudge at January 19, 2008 05:38 PM | Email This
Comments
1. After talking with the advisory committee there is a strong consensus for using the deep bore tunnel option instead of the tunnel light or strickly surface street/transit option.With the deep bore tunnel you have 0 traffic mitigation costs wich lower the total cost to less than a billion,and you can keep the viaduct open until the last stages of construction.
This is bad news for the surface street fans. They were hoping that the high cost of the tunnel or replacement option would allow for all of that traffic to be diverted to a grand boulevard.It will be interesting to see how the greenie Seattle urban village grand boulevard zealots corrupt another state project.It is bound to get deep as Sims,Nickels,Moon ,Seirra club,futurewise et al will try to prevent the obvious solution.
The deep bore option is the best option.Now lets see if the D's have the underwearwithall to stand up to the greenies,and get it done. .
Certain members of the advisory committee have already come up with the solution,It keeps the seattle bypass,Is cheaper than any other proposal,and allows traffic to keep moving longer without pushing traffic onto I-5,and I-405.
Sorry greenie bastages.

Posted by: Publicbulldog on January 19, 2008 06:40 PM
2. How many lanes are they talking about Publicbulldog?


Posted by: Al on January 19, 2008 06:52 PM
3. Actually Pudge, if she doesn't bow at the altar of gaia, she fears she will not get re-elected. A not unreasonable fear for someone on the left.

As we saw in 2004, she can lose most of state on a geographic basis and still win in King County - so long as she has friends in Seattle. And that means greenies.

Posted by: deadwood on January 19, 2008 06:53 PM
4. Publicbulldog:
Why do you suggest that "greenies" (as you so derisively put it) would be against a deep-bore tunnel? THE Surface/Transit people care far more for getting rid of the Viaduct than in some will o' the wisp notion of getting everyone to bike or ride the bus.

As to the overall idea that the delay in doing "something" about the Viaduct hs been because we have been "bowing to the altar of Gaia," that's doesn't comport with reality. We didn't build the tunnel simply because it cost too much — so we were if anything bowing to the altar of Mammon.

Posted by: David Sucher on January 19, 2008 06:55 PM
5. ..but the Viaduct is an emergency, dontcha know?? She is doing a fine, fine job pretending to care about all this. Nothing has happened on her watch because all her poltical friends don't yet want it to. If they did, something would already be done.

Posted by: Misty on January 19, 2008 07:11 PM
6. I like Robert Mak. I can't tell for sure what his politics are which to me is the hallmark of a good reporter. He shows the Times, PI, and Weekly how it should be done if only they would pay attention.

Alas, they're probably too busy out getting boozed up w/ the likes of Rich McIver and Bobbe Bridge.

Posted by: russell garrard on January 19, 2008 07:32 PM
7. Why the Governor has recent history of over riding due process in siting critical infrastructure despite EIS and SEPA reports, that would be the Kittitas County Wind Farm decision. 3 years of review and hearings went away in a flash because the Governor wanted more Wind Turbines placed in Kittitas County. It didn't hurt that she took the recommendation of Jim Luce, her hand picked head of the State Siting Commission, who sends her thousands of dollars a year in donations (Along with his State Department of Licensing head wife). The problem is that Luce has apparently violated all of the quasi-judicial procedures he was responsible for enforcing as the Commisson Chair and his advice to the Governor is probably bogus.

If she wants to show she is for the people instead of the special interest groups she would declare an emergency, wave the EIS and SEPA (Saving 1% a month in total project costs over a three year study period) and go straight to design and build. She will not take this bold course of actions because she is bought and paid for by the environmental groups who are determined to under build and overcharge for the 520 corridor.

Posted by: Huh? on January 19, 2008 07:47 PM
8. Al,
Three lanes both ways.
It will start about at the Coast guard station south where it will connect north has yet to be decided becuase of the height of the battery street tunnel.
D.Sucher,
Read Peoples waterfront coalition website.
Notice the claim that the surface street will create 6 to 8 blocks of retail sales and sales taxes.If you think the greenies care about saving a whale salmon and frog,Try paying the rent trying to save the whale salmon and frog.You will be taking a check from Greg Smith or Martin Selig before the rent is due.sierra club and its congestion pricing lust is a brother can you spare a carbon tax policy that aims to get people to fill in the urban villages.
Pick a group and I will tell you what they really want.
What I really want is to slap them greenie bastages with a truck payment,and have them driving a stick shift delivery truck for a couple of months.Let them run on the hamster wheel for a while,and see what kind of policies they have in mind..

Posted by: Publicbulldog on January 19, 2008 07:49 PM
9. "she does not take the next logical step"

Sorry, but that is not possible for her to accomplish, since "logic" and Chrissy are never seen in the same room simultaneously.

You will be accessed a 15 paragraph penalty on the campaign kick off.

Posted by: hinton on January 19, 2008 07:52 PM
10. @1:
If you have a source or link for costs, design, timetable, etc. please provide.

Thanks.

Posted by: C;eve on January 19, 2008 08:09 PM
11. Dave Sucher,
your next book should be how to coerce a fill in of the inner city urban village.

http://www.amazon.com/City-Comforts-Build-Urban-Village/dp/0964268000
Here are some hints for you.

Step One: Elect Ron Sims.
Step Two: Elect Greg Nickels.
Step Three: have the downtown developers pay the bills for the greenie groups to whoop whoop whoop and shout we cant just pour more concrete.
Step Four: use ramp metering to skirt two thirds of the traffic from the freeways.
Step Five:Reduce interchanges to one lane,turn the other into an HOV lane,use ramp meters to stop 95 percent of the traffic so 5 percent can get by and call it an HOV supoort system.

Step six:Have the UW invent something called fuzzy logic that baffles the public with BS, by convincing them that stopping already moving traffic will allow them space to get up to speed,while HOV traffic doesn't have to.then throw in a few more lies like it saves gas reduces pollution saves a frog in Colorado all that good greenie stuff.
Step Seven:have congress pass a bill called TEA 21 to mandate transit projects and retrofitting because it creates more jobs.That will put traffic congestion so far behind they will have no choice but to fill in the inner city or take a bus.
Step Eight :Spend all of the transportation dollars on boondoggles as outlined by TEA 21 to gentrify the inner city so we can coerce the people into it with a carrot and stick.
Step Nine:Kick Rob McKenna off the Sound Transit board so hard he needs to buy two new suits.
Step 10.Let the ferries fall apart force Joell Conely to move to the Rainer Valley.
Are you ready for a truck payment Dave?
The hamster wheel awaits.

Posted by: Publicbulldog on January 19, 2008 08:22 PM
12. @10,
Contact Bob Donegan.
I may be off on the figures but not by much.
The principals won't change much.
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/522E8205-C74F-4842-A8BD-1CBC3507198D/0/SAC_Roster_011408.pdf
Keep on these guys.....
Be Heard.........

Posted by: Publicbulldog on January 19, 2008 08:28 PM
13. And the state won't be sued when an obviously decrepit structure collapses as kills hundreds of people after seven years of inaction?

I never understand the "we might get sued" justification for stupid actions.

Posted by: Cicero on January 19, 2008 09:23 PM
14. If they want no cars in town then tear down that damn viaduct and sink 520, and save us all one hell of alot of money that they never do anything at all with but count, spend, and rip us all off for more.

NOTHING EVER GETS BUILT!

Posted by: GS on January 19, 2008 09:46 PM
15. I don't understand why there isn't more interest in the Elliot Bay bridge option.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2003151753_earlbell26.html

Posted by: gnossos on January 19, 2008 10:02 PM
16. A tunnel under Seattle would make the "Big Dig" look like the "Big Bargain".

What is it w/ Democrats that just can't get their little minds around cost, schedule, ease-of-use, minimalization of impact, etc? Every project has to be "THE BIGGEST PROJECT EVER!!!!"

1) There should be a Viaduct replacement.
2) It should look really similar to what's there now.
3) It should move MORE goods and MORE commuters than the current Viaduct (which ain't half bad).

Posted by: cmiklich on January 19, 2008 10:42 PM
17. Just a side note. When Prop. 1 was being drafted there was a clause that would have required a 'carbon footprint analysis' before starting any projects. I didn't find it in the final text that was filed with the SoS, so I'm guessing they got smart and took it out.

That would certainly have created more opportunities for lawsuits. Enviro-wackos wouldn't have had to look for puddles of water near a proposed project for an excuse to file a lawsuit. Air is everywhere and where there are roads there is carbon. Voila... instant lawsuit.

Posted by: Republican (by default) on January 19, 2008 10:51 PM
18. Apparently the Governor is ready to pull the trigger on a new 4.2 Billion Dollar Bridge across the Columbia in Portland to address the bottleneck on I-5, according to Skip over at Crosscut. The Feds will pick up the majority of the tab, but the Governor is trying to get Oregon to agree to make it a toll bridge and to apply tolls to all of the other existing bridges. Sound familiar?

Posted by: Huh? on January 20, 2008 09:13 AM
19. No viaduct,no 520 bridge;big deal.Taxpayers save a bunch by moving the "End of Road" to Bellevue!

Posted by: kilroy on January 20, 2008 09:31 AM
20. Especially since the new, unwanted, unneeded bridge, which is only an excuse for bringing loot rail and it's wasted billions across the river, will do absolutely nothing to relieve congestion, or fix the bottle neck.

Posted by: Hinton on January 20, 2008 10:07 AM
21. Davie @ 4:

If you have watched any project dealing with transportation and specifically roads you will realize that "the greenis" are against anything that will allow the same amount, or more, of automobiles on the road.

They litigate the bejeebus out of everything because they want cars off the roads period.

Pay Attention.

Posted by: Mr. RcGuy on January 20, 2008 11:02 AM
22. RE 21:
Additionally for those of you who have ridden in locales with real mass transit you know that our WA govt. is just blowing smoke up our arses.

NY, WA DC, Italy, Spain, Europe as a whole. Mass transit is a total commitment to provide it REGARDLESS of the cars and of the expense.

To do Mass Transit in Western WA you have to run at least two North South lines, but probably three with one on the corridor on the Kitsap Peninsula. Multiple East West lines. And you have to do it from Olympia to Mt. Vernon. You have to invest in massive parking structures, security, and additional bus transportation to make it a no brainer for people to hop a bus to get to a hub.

You will never ever get greenies to cop to all of the vegetation that will have to be destroyed or all of the cement put in its place for parking lots.

You will never EVER get the freaking residents of Western WA to realize that this takes money and they will have to pay for it for generations. The residents feelings though are justified when we look back at the shitty way transportation has been handled in the past. But the biggest thing is we all look at Sound Transit and the bullshit light rail system/route that is going in now and what it costs vs. what we were told, the fact that it will do 0 to alleviate traffic congestion, and that it doesn't provide a meaningful route for anybody, to realize why we Washintonians blow off just about any suggestion that originates with our govt.

Posted by: Mr. RcGuy on January 20, 2008 11:26 AM
23. Actually, a deep bored tunnel is a very good solution. As explained it will allow continued use of the Viaduct, during most of construction and it can (if routed correctly be far enough to the east that it will be much above sealevel for most of its route. If it were done correctly (enough lanes and exits on and off of I-5), it might even allow for expanding I-5 where it narrows now designed under that theory that everyone exits in downtown Seattle.

Now as to why this is not likely to happen. It doesn't allow the City of Seattle to get its seawall replaced with federal or state money as a hidden cost of a viaduct replacement project. It also doesn't create a double "urban renewal" project in Seattle that benefits those that want to remove the viaduct and place condo's and office building in its place and the other group of money'ed folks who want small business in the area to throw up their hands over years of construtcion congestion so they can buy properties in the general waterfront area of a fraction of its true worth.

That means that lots of folks with political power don't want a solution that works, is less expensive or good for the State, they want something that is good for the Seattle power-elite.

Posted by: robert32asp on January 20, 2008 12:13 PM
24. But her campaign promise was to cut through the beauracracy and red tape.

Are you implying she hasn't lived up to her campaign promises?

Posted by: Andy on January 20, 2008 02:51 PM
25. Why not just blame the Mayor of Seattle and former Transportation Secretary Doug MacDonald for putting all of their marbles in a huge expensive freeway either under or over the city? That's what led to the delay in getting a decision on the part of the Viaduct through downtown. It all started in the Locke Administration. Once the big tunnel was locked in, it had to play through. Any who complained about the costs and proposed better, less expensive ideas, were basically told they were stupid and to get out of the way.

It was stupid from the start.

Posted by: redflag on January 20, 2008 03:56 PM
26. The Green Governor takes a sudden right turn and bloodies her nose on the Green Wall. This is such high quality poetry that it's beyond the skill of poets. Who could ask for more?

Let's all sit back and drink in the art. Moving vehicles North and South is a crass diversion in the face of such inspiration.

Posted by: Bart Cannon on January 20, 2008 04:35 PM
27. The Green Governor, who by the way can't walk her A 100 yards from her home to the capital in the morning, is the major obstacle to any transportation improvement in this state.

Until she has been retired from this office, I will vote no on any transportation issue.

Why?

Because although declared an emergency, the recent 15 odd cent gas tax was suppose to begin to take care of these emergencies.

Not a single one has had one shovel of work done on them, but the dollars have been shoveled into the rapidly expanding Gregoire government for years now.

We get nothing but higher pay for the government trough, and more expansion and intrusion in our daily lives by a never money hungry state government.

We need new leadership in this state.

Posted by: GS on January 20, 2008 05:27 PM
28. It is funny watching her trip all over herself to be just like Rossi.

It is going to be an entertaining year and an even more entertaining legislative session.


On the downside- with the inability raise taxes or otherwise take any more of our money- the chimps down at the legislature seem to be taking aim at our rights...

let them eat cake instead.

Posted by: Andy on January 20, 2008 06:22 PM
29. I'm not joking about ending the road on the east side.I believe the majority of Seattle residents want a viaduct tear down without replacement and could care less about the 520 bridge.Give them what they want. Use transportation dollars to enhance 405, expand route 18 to be a bipass from the south to I-5,bring all shipping to the port of Tacoma and let Seattle be something like a New Age Victoria.

Posted by: kilroy on January 20, 2008 06:27 PM
30. The people who claim a "deep" tunnel will cost less than a surface street are living in a fantasy world. It's Mayor Moron & Co. who want a crowded city and the police state power to regulate/rule it.

Less transportation, less population. Pugetopolis is killing itself now.

Posted by: JB on January 21, 2008 01:31 AM
31. A "deep" tunnel might avoid the various indian burial grounds which are though to exist along the surface / near surface route. There is one at the foot of Seneca.

I believe that the discovery of an indian burial ground would stop the project faster than a nesting spotted owl.

Posted by: Bart Cannon on January 21, 2008 04:24 AM
32.
JB must be worried that the deep bore tunnel does not cause enough chaos or use enough orange vests,Cones and barrels.The only thing we would have to worry about is how to properly dispose of the slurry.

Posted by: Publicbulldog on January 21, 2008 06:45 AM
33. Deep Bore tunnel link
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5378085-description.html

Posted by: Publicbulldog on January 21, 2008 07:05 AM
34. Everyone wants to get rid of their bypasses.


http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20080120/NEWS/801200305

We have to save the Economy/environment.
It is corruption..Greenies have been corrupted by retail sales and sales taxes.
It is happening all over ...
Cary Moon does wear some far out clothes though.
I wouldn't kick her out of bed for using a plastic grocery bag.
LOL

Posted by: Publicbulldog on January 21, 2008 07:17 AM
35. And so the retrofit option is becoming cheaper and cheaper compared to the other alternatives. Do it!!

Posted by: swatter on January 21, 2008 07:24 AM
36. Wow this is the pot calling the kettle black. Gregoire would normally side with the environmentalists, because Greogire and the Environmentalists all fall under the banner of collectivism.

But this is a temporary political diversion so that Gregoire can "talk tough" and appeal to conservatives and independents who don't like environmentalists and the billions we waste making roads safer for frogs and not people.

But Gregoire can then be found talking carbon footprints and Global Warming. She is an environmentalist. It's all part of the plan to retain total Democrat control of Olympia so that next year will be a Progressive Orgy of Legislation that would make even Marlyn Chase blush.

Posted by: Jeff B. on January 21, 2008 08:46 AM
37. A retrofit of the center waterfront section, combined with the rebuilding of the south section now begun, is perhaps half the cost of the billions being thrown around.

Why not do that and devote the remainder to building a "full-size" 520 bridge capable of carrying light rail (or dedicated bus lanes now).

Posted by: BA on January 21, 2008 08:50 AM
38. BA ,
That is what SEIU would want us to do so we can hire more state employee's

Posted by: Publicbulldog on January 21, 2008 11:12 AM
39. I'd rather see a tunnel, and an improved surface street, but I fear the costs are too high.

So, rather than build a new above ground solution that we're then stuck with for another 50 years or so, fix what we have to last another generation, then look to replace it in the future.

Alternatively,
How about one tunnel bore for now (three lanes one way), and knock off the upper level of the viaduct? A single level viaduct is quieter, blocks fewer views, and easier to make earthquake resistant being a lower structure.

Posted by: BA on January 21, 2008 11:20 AM
40. BA, I am a retrofit fan. But, the argument we get is that a retrofit will allow the structure to stand during a 7.0 earthquake (don't know the number) but a new one could withstand an 8.0 earthquake.

The idea is to protect a new structure at least 100 times better than most of the buildings in Seattle.

Posted by: swatter on January 21, 2008 12:37 PM
41. BA ,
I am tired of putting lipstick on my grandfathers pigs. We need to commit to new infrastructure instead of spending billions on a drug war and a war in Iraq.

Posted by: Publicbulldog on January 21, 2008 01:01 PM
42. Democrats are masters at shifting blame. Her inactions and those of her Democrat predecessor can't withstand hard scrutiny.

Posted by: John425 on January 21, 2008 02:37 PM
43. I'd back one of the plans if they'd just show a little foresight and try expanding the number of lanes by AT LEAST 2 lanes each direction. To spend all of that money and only gain one lane is stupid. It's as stupid as building another Narrows Bridge that only adds one commuter lane each way. There's no logical reason to add just one. I guess the DOT just sees it as job security. Our elected officials say they need to look ahead for population growth, well, they need to actually show it.

Posted by: Brent on January 21, 2008 08:38 PM
44. Brent, drive across the new Narrows Bridge and it is four lanes wide - I think the retrofit of the original bridge might remain four lanes too - which means the corridor was constructed to have capacity to grow since the original bridge was two lanes each direction.

Yes that fourth lane isn't a through lane...yet, but now the additional capacity for growth is in place. Similar to I-90 over Lake Washington, lanes are being added there too.

Increasing the viaduct from 3 to 5 lanes might make some sense - though the Battery Street Tunnel is 2 lanes each way so that capacity will not be usable until that tunnel is also expanded.

Posted by: BA on January 21, 2008 09:57 PM
45. I wonder how well tunnelling thru fill in a liquefaction zone will work out...especially when the Cascadian Fault Line busts loose during the inevitable next huge earthquake??
The last time we had a major earthquake on the Cascadian Fault Line was January 27, 1700.
Plenty of evidence to support that & the Tsunami that followed.
The Cascadian Fault Line creates a massive earthquake every 300-500 years...like clockwork....for tens of thousands of years.
It's now been 308.
Wonder if the LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS have planned for that??

Posted by: Mr Cynical on January 22, 2008 04:42 PM
46. I've said this before but it bears repeating. The much longer and not as well designed Oakland CA viaduct which collapsed during a busy rush hour killed less than 70 people. Are we going to spend $4 Billion to avoid the possible but improbable (most of the day the viaduct is empty) deaths of less than 70 people? That's $57 Million dollars per person. It makes no sense.
Best solution is to make the current viaduct as safe as possible for as little money as possible, like maybe $30 Million for reinforcement. If a quake does happen, it doesn't have to stay intact. It just needs to not totally fail. THEN replace it AFTER the quake. Why buy it twice?

Posted by: Scott on January 23, 2008 09:51 AM
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