January 14, 2008
Rumor has it...

...we have a ferry system in this state. If someone could let me know when it actually runs according to plan I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

Posted by Eric Earling at January 14, 2008 10:29 PM | Email This
Comments
1. As a regular ferry rider who actually uses the ferries daily, rather than whine about them from Snohomish County, I can tell you that the ferries generally run on time. I am not defending any Democrat here, but ferries would rust no matter which party is in charge in Olypmia. Furthermore, as transit systems go, the ferry riders pay the highest percentage of cost (80%).

I do commend you on finally choosing a topic that is neither Snohomish centric or Connelly worship.

Posted by: pbj on January 15, 2008 01:49 AM
2. I admit I did not get a chance to hear or read Rossis response to the state of the state but I am guessing he still has not got a clue what the proper free market response to the ferry system situation is. Did either he or Gregoire make the common sense solution that the state should abandon its ferry monopoly and let the free market return to the sound?

Like I said, I did not have a chance to listen but based on previous comments from Rossi, I am willing to bet the answer is no. Rossi rarely suggests we actually cut government programs. INstead he runs on the idea he can run it better.

Posted by: Travis on January 15, 2008 05:30 AM
3. Again I say: Mr Rossi is 'pissin in the wind' if he thinks he has a realistic chance of defeating an incumbent Governor who has garnered the support and respect of the citizens of this State. Our Governor will remain and report to our Democrat POTUS (probably Hillary).
Rossi campaign folks: you have my permission to use that slogan in your ads, if you like: 'ROSSI: PISSIN IN THE WIND' - (for moderate royalties).

Posted by: HillBill on January 15, 2008 05:42 AM
4. Clear thinking adults understand perfectly that government is about making policy; government is incapable of efficiently providing services, within the confines of the civil service/unionized state employee system as we have it.

Eighty year old ferries are rusting away?? Who would have imagined??

Fifty year old Viaduct structurally incapable of withstanding the Big One, after 50 yrs of 24/7 pounding by tens of thousands of cars and trucks? Who would have imagined?

And yet, we the public elect and re-elect petulant, arrogant, dunderheaded children like Haugen and Gregoire who have no experience whatsoever in the adult real world, and expect them to act, and think, like adults, that is, clearly.

Attention, Washingtonians, take care of yourselves.

Might not be bright plopping yourself on a 75% rusted away 80 yr old ferry operated by grossly overpaid unmotivated union members (aka professional victims).

Can you spell P R I V A T I Z E?? TODAY....

Can you spell move your fanny off Bainbridge Island?

Can you spell gigantic, and successful, lawsuits against the State et al (et al being you and me footing the bill for damages) upon catastrophic failure of transportation infrasture(s)??

Posted by: Hank on January 15, 2008 06:10 AM
5. Thank you for that very uplifting and optimistic message on this cool, icy morning. May the birds of paradise collectively fly out your ass.

Posted by: Optimist on January 15, 2008 06:17 AM
6. pbj,

Yes, ferries rust, and as such, must be maintained repaired and eventually replaced, and these are the areas where our socialist state government has failed us. Too much spending on feel-good welfare programs and too little on effective transportation options, such as general-purpose traffic lanes, bridges maintenance and repair, ferry maintenance and repair and traffic flow management.

A recent letter to the editor in the Pt. Townsend Leader from a marine engineer with 30+ years experience, over half of it spent on the recently drydocked Steel Electric Class ferries, stated there was nothing wrong with those boats, which he considered fully seaworthy. Yes, they are 80 years old, but with proper maintenance (including some hull plate replacement) they could be returned to service. Instead, our knee-jerk State Transportation Department pulls them from service, shuts down a ferry run, and opts to build replacements with 70% capacity of the Steel Electrics. When I protested to my State Representative, he would only back the party line of this one-party matriarchist oligarchy. When will people grow so sick of this they demand change?

Posted by: Salherring on January 15, 2008 06:23 AM
7. It's interesting that, while some folks here think the "rusting" ferries are fine, others think they should have been retired years ago, and others think the government should never have owned them, all of you can agree that it's Gov. Gregoire's fault.

Posted by: Bruce on January 15, 2008 08:13 AM
8. Surely, Bruce, we can also agree that we can blame Gregoire for 'retiring' all those ferries at the same time.

Posted by: swatter on January 15, 2008 08:18 AM
9. The ferry system is basically a pawn in the scheme to extract as much money as possible from we the people (sheeple).
The dems tactic of "utilizing media to instill fear, wave a half baked solution in the air, tax and fee to the powers that be" is in full play here.
Oh but queen Christine is doing such a fine job, look at the billion dollar rainy day fund.
That's a billion dollars of over-taxation that could have filled alot of potholes in the roads.

Posted by: PC on January 15, 2008 08:40 AM
10. Of course, it could be Gary Locke's fault. Or Mike Lowry, or Booth Gardner because the maintenance that could have helped these ferries should have been done on their watch.

For the last 23 years, we have had only Democratic governors. Why didn't(don't) they have a better handle on the ferry system issues?

Posted by: SouthernRoots on January 15, 2008 08:47 AM
11. I got an idea! Why don't we let private individuals and companies buy and maintain ferries and charge passengers for ferrying them across the sound!

What a concept.

Too bad it is written into our state constitution that only the government can ferry people and cars across the sound. It'd require an amendment to fix that problem.

Posted by: Jonathan Gardner on January 15, 2008 09:47 AM
12. "PC" expressed it right. Very coincidental that a perfect storm of ferry problems has come all at once. Smells like yet another maneuver from Olympia this time to scare the populous into buying into a program to spend massive bucks, from new sources aka taxes, on a "world class" ferry system.

As far as how the bucks have been spent and planned spending on ferries I recall something in the past year or eighteen months being reported about rebuilding Coleman Dock. Something about adding entertainment, retail, and other questionable frills to a commuter station. Western WA priorities at their finest.

Looks like ploy from the nabobs similar to the Gregoire/Sims/Nickels scheme of "Hey Chris, at the start we'll make it look like you're opposed to anything but a viaduct and since it's a state highway you're the boss. Then at the last minute you announce you're fed up and tearing it down. Then we'll get our way regardless what the public wants."

Posted by: floater on January 15, 2008 10:45 AM
13. Those of you who want privatized ferries should study up on state history. We tried that in the past and it was an abject failure. That's the reason why voters in this state requested a state-run system, which has worked pretty well since 1951.

Posted by: Stan on January 15, 2008 11:34 AM
14. Gregoire "PISSIN OUR TAX MONEY TO THE WIND' is a bit more like it.

Built nothing
Taxed everything

Government HACK!

Real leadership....NOT

Posted by: gs on January 15, 2008 07:24 PM
15. Ferry riders should pay 100% of the costs of ferry service, less any on-ferry advertising or other legitimate revenues.

Road users should pay for roads via tolls and gas taxes or other user-fee methods, not sales taxes or vehicle tab fees.

And ferries should lose their government monopoly status. It should not be illegal, as it now is in WA, to start a car ferry service.

The biggest creator of monopoly today is the government. Mail, cable, local phone landlines, gas, ferries, water/sewer, garbage collection... All should be opened up to competition and choice. What are they afraid of? Only that efficient for-profit businesses would take some of "their" revenue.

Liberals decry monopoly, as they set out to create them left and right. Then these monopolies help support state control.

Stan @ 13, let's keep the government ferries, if you like, as long as they are self-funded and compete fairly with private ferries, I have no huge problem with them. But I think that if we eliminated the law that makes competing with the ferry illegal, we would all have shorter ferry lines, and better ferry service. Even the WA ferry service would improve due to the competition! Win-win.

Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on January 15, 2008 07:52 PM
16. Bruce @ 7:

No, I would not place the blame on Gregoire. I do not like her at all. In fact I sparingly use the word hate but hve been known to use it on her ever since the her days as a lead AG sueing tobaco companies. But the ferry system is not her fault. The state took it over in the 40 or 50 sometime. It is the every governor since that times fault as well as every state legislature and every republican and democrat party chair that has not used their position to try and push the free market back into the sounds ferry system. To place all blame on the ferries on Gregoire is unfair.

Posted by: travis on January 15, 2008 08:23 PM
17. PC @ 9:

It is in the state constitution? It has been a while since i read that rag but I do not remember that in there.

Posted by: travis on January 15, 2008 08:25 PM
18. Stan @ 13:

First lets assume you are right and that the private ferry system failed in a truly free market. What this means is the people do not value the service a ferry provides more than the price it cost to provide such a service. The question then is why should the state run a service people do not think is very valueable?

But all of this supposes that there was a free market when the ferry system failed. I have read up on the history of the misquito fleet and it did not fail for free market reasons. It failed because of government regulations in the labor market made it too expensive to operate. If I remember right the same labor rules did not apply to the state ferry monopoly that came in to replace the private fleets. I could be wrong on that, I often get it mixed up with a similar situation with the NYC subways.

Posted by: Travis on January 15, 2008 08:30 PM
19. we need to raise taxes so we can build more bike paths, bus barns, trolleys etc.

Posted by: Randy on January 15, 2008 09:02 PM
20. Ever owned a big old boat? If you have you'd probably marvel at the amazing job the ferry system has done running a whole fleet of very old boats, with a dozen unions, cranky nieghborhood rantings, and non competitive laws requiring that we "build them in Washington."

Why the people who depend on the service have spent more time fighting over turf and little time rallying support for their lifeline ferries is one of life's big mysteries. We need to replace at least one vessel per year for the next 30 years. That might not even keep the fleet afloat.

The ferry system is one of this state's best loved assets. We need to can the politics and keep it afloat.

That rust you see staining our fleet is a stain on the face of the state of Washington.

Posted by: redflag on January 15, 2008 09:04 PM
21. As a daily boat rider I can't wait until the tax, errr, toll goes on 90 and 520. Enjoy, like I do, paying twice for the same substandard product.

Posted by: Dbltap on January 16, 2008 06:50 AM
22. Stan@15, according to the WSF website, private ferries failed because regulators wouldn't let them raise rates high enough to cover their increasing labor costs. So that was not entirely a failure of the free market.

On the other hand, state policy is that the ferries are an essential part of our state's transportation infrastructure and should be subsidized just like roads and mass transit. Of course this will never persuade the hardcore libertarians on this site.

Posted by: Bruce Burger on January 16, 2008 09:09 AM
23. should be subsidized just like roads

Kindly explain how our state highways are subsidized when 100% of their funding comes from users of the roads through weight and other fees, gas taxes, and licenses. And please do not tell us that people who ride ferries don't ever use state highways.

Posted by: Palouse on January 16, 2008 09:19 AM
24. Given the $18 billion "carbon tax" plans by her highness. Why would one think that she won the hearts and minds of the citizens for the next election?

The stadiums rejected by the voters and bought by the elected officials in time of emergency stand as permanent icons that elected officials think they know better than the average citizen.

Privatizing government is an oxymoron and bad policy. It subsidizes bad management, corruption and reckless spending. Explain to me why the ferry system, sports arenas, sound transit, liquor stores and ports are owned and operated by politicians. Politicians who don't have a clue about running a business. ANy business large or small.

This year our fine elected official are voting on buying into a hoax called carbon taxing. Now that is going to help our economy.

Posted by: Snuffy on January 16, 2008 09:41 AM
25. What this state needs is a constitutional ammendment to remove state support of all ferry systems. Theses systems should be required to support themselves....no tax payer subsidies at all. The people who desire to live on islands for the amity of the scenery should bear any and all costs of ferry systems. It is/was thier decision to live there.....let them pay to enjoy it.

Posted by: Allan Rothlisberg on January 16, 2008 12:54 PM
26. Yeah, Allan, and while we're at it, lets put a toll booth at every mile mark on state highways, to make sure everyone pays for each 5,280 feet they drive. But don't forget those Lake Washington Bridges, where them @#%&*?@ people have been crossing for free for decades. And while we're at it, why don't we just force everyone to move from them damn islands and peninsulas to Seattle and ride Sound Transit. Then we'd have no worries at all, would we.

Posted by: Saltherring on January 16, 2008 05:49 PM
27. Saltherring and others that choose to live on islands. How dare you compare a ferry to a road. That boat provides you with a free ride to and fro on the island you and others choose to live. Are you suggesting that people who choose to move to Hawaii should have a state sponsored ferry to the mainland. Suggest you think in terms of privatizing the ferry system.

Roads are paid for any number of ways by taxes and other revenues collected from the population. The same may not be said of the islanders. You enjoy a free ride. Privatize the boat that carries you to the mainland or pay full price for the ticket.

Posted by: Snuffy on January 16, 2008 07:20 PM
28. Comparing the subsidized ferry system to Sound Transit indeed makes my point. Both should be privatized. I guess the full meal deal is taking a ferry to Edmonds catching a sounder train to the stadium. Now that what I call enjoying to the max what the government takes from taxpayers.

Now if we can find a way to put a liquor store on the ferry. It would be complete.

Posted by: Snuffy on January 16, 2008 07:52 PM
29. Snuffy,

I don't live on an island, but empathize with those who don't choose to live wall-to-wall and must rely, to varying degrees, on ferry service. I am also not an advocate of big government, but outsourcing services is not always the answer. But, of course, you sound like another "losertarian" braying the privatization mantra, while sucking up all the "free" stuff Seattle and the inner 'burbs offer. Just because you don't use the ferries, they aren't needed. And how 'bout those tolls on the Lake Washington bridges?

Posted by: Saltherring on January 17, 2008 06:05 AM
30. Salthering: Your blathering about tolls on highways is funny....we tax payers pay enough for using these roads.....with the leftists in Olympia refusing to upgrade general purpose roads. Since no one forces people to live on islands, it seem to me that it is thier responsibility to pay for thier transit costs....no one else should be forced to pay it. As for bridges, remember that we taxpayers (ie gas taxes, vehicle taxes, etc) have and are paying for them every time we gas up...both at the state and at the federal levels. If this sociaist state wouldn't waste money on mandated art projects dealing with road/bridges, there would be hundreds of thousands left over for real projects. Also, this state needs to quit lumping gas tx money in with the general fund. It all boils down to accountability....of which these left wing, socialist wackos will never want.

Posted by: Allan Rothlisberg on January 17, 2008 12:06 PM
31. Allan,

I agree with much of what you said, particularly your comments on art projects and general fund. But, I have no problem paying full price for a ferry ticket (we pay 80% now), but I expect the system to be better managed. You however, seem to believe that folks in Aberdeen, Mt Vernon, Vancouver, Kennewick, Spokane and Port Angeles should pay for a new $4 billion Evergreen Point Bridge. No, the folks who use that bridge should pay the majority of the cost. After all, they chose to live on the other side of Lake Washington, (to use your "logic") so they should pay.

Posted by: Saltherring on January 17, 2008 04:54 PM
32. Slathering:

You are right the bridges should have tolls. But the taxes should be reduced also since the state will not have to spend money on it. Just as the ferries should be privatized and taxes reduced since the state will no longer have to spend money on them either.

Posted by: Travis on January 18, 2008 05:14 AM
33. It seems that Washingtonians place a high value on government management skills. So much so , that any and all services should be carried out by beaucrats. Routinely people in other parts of the US use privately owned and managed businesses that carry (float) them across bodies of water. There are fleets of private ferries operating on the Long Island Sound. I have used them crossing from Port Townsend to Conn. Loved it. One pays the purser while underway. No ticket booths. Enjoys a meal complete with adult beverage in a real restaurant. The wonders of private business.

Also enjoy buying lower price adult beverages at supermarkets on a Saturday evening or Senday morning in many states. Check out the prices in California for a bottle of your favorite adult beverage.

Yankee stadium is owned and operated by private business. Has been for decades. Why do Washington politicians require taxpayers to pay for sports arenas. And why was it an emergency?

Local ports ooze with the smell of corruption. Why do taxpayers support government "landlords" that can't make a profit on the choicest properties in the area. Makes no sense. Ports should be leased to private operators.

A few years ago there was talk of removing rest stops on our freeways because they cost to much to operate and patrol. I suggested that the properties be put out for bid to restaurant and gas station operators as done on the NY Thruway. This would offer motorists the convenience of filling up and relieving themselves anytime night or day. And the state would collect rent. Net result is the rest stops are still owned and operated by WA beaucrats and subsidized by taxpayers. This is not a right or left political dogma thing. It is common sense. Taxpayers pay less if the government operates less. It is that simple.

Posted by: Snuffy on January 19, 2008 07:40 AM
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