January 07, 2008
Have At It

I'm playing catch-up after going to the Seahawks game on Saturday (it was fun) and a long overdue date with my wife much of Sunday (ditto). Plus, you know, I have a job. As such, this is an open thread.

Posted by Eric Earling at January 07, 2008 07:25 AM | Email This
Comments
1. What do all of you in the Sound Transit taxing district outside of Seattle think of Sound Transit's new plans to ignore the subarea budgeting/subarea equity terms approved in 1996?

Now you all are going to be paying WAY too much in Sound Transit taxes, for years, and the Nickels-led board of ST will be dumping all that tax revenue into Seattle light rail.

So what do you and your neighbors think about them apples?

Posted by: just curious on January 7, 2008 08:27 AM
2. Luckily I live just outside the RTID so I don't have to pay any of those smarmy taxes. I do think it is business as usual though: the Seattle-centric focus of King County and all the more reason that we should work toward a two-county solution.

Posted by: WarmFuzzyPuppies on January 7, 2008 08:48 AM
3. An open thread.. ugh.

That being said, why not much heard on the forced food recycle in Seattle?

My thoughts:
I keep my grass/yard waste cans as far from my house and summer open windows as possible: fermenting yard waste STINKS... how lovely will it smell when you add rotting vegetables, eggshells and scraps of raw meat?

The cans provided by Rabanco are not sealed: they leak where the wheels insert... does the city not realize the nasty liquids that are the result of the breakdown/fermentation of food products will leech into the ground? Won't attract RATS? Gosh Maybe with Seattle's help our little corner of the world can learn to attract COCKROACHES!

When we lived in PA, I had a neighbor furiously scrubbing and bleaching her garbage cans... why you ask? MAGGOTS.

Furthermore, it seems (and is probAbly a fact) that easily degradable garbage such as food products would hasten the degradation of ACTUAL garbage.

Once again, Seattle has its collective head up its... garbage pile.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on January 7, 2008 09:01 AM
4. Fuzzy, my problem is that I shop in areas that pay the RTID or is included in sales tax.

If I recall, there is none of the tax in my property tax bills on property I own in RTID.

Posted by: swatter on January 7, 2008 09:08 AM
5. So, there WAS a winner!

I know you guys were anxiously awaiting the results!

ps, I love the Hershey Kiss comment! :)

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on January 7, 2008 09:12 AM
6. I know, I know.. I can already hear the outrage... but it's just too fun!

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on January 7, 2008 09:21 AM
7. I just wanna know why Mitt Romney appointed a liberal activist judge that released a convicted felon early, who went on to kill two people in Washington. He blabbers on about Mike Huckabees pardons, I think he made alot bigger mistake.

Posted by: JL on January 7, 2008 09:58 AM
8. Swatter, you're right that property taxes aren't affected but car tabs, which do depend on where you live, are a large part of it. Sales tax is the other part so, yes, that affects us all. Yet another reason to do all your large scale shopping outside the RTID.

Posted by: WarmFuzzyPuppies on January 7, 2008 10:02 AM
9. Jl

I believe Pudge answered your question on another thread as he grew up in Mass. Maybe you should ask him.

Posted by: WVH on January 7, 2008 10:04 AM
10. I think one of the big unearthed issues is the number of taxing districts like the large ones, Port and Sound Transit and many smaller ones that operate and their acitivities don't seem to be that transparent.

This garbage thing, why not just encourage those with yards to compost in their own yard.

Posted by: WVH on January 7, 2008 10:08 AM
11. Paulistas! Realclearpolitics have just released results of their latest national poll of likely Republican voters, with Ron Paul coming in at 3.3%, um, last.

Posted by: katomar on January 7, 2008 10:18 AM
12. The big news is the Seattle City Council voting 8 to 1 to declare the boarded up Denny's at the corner of 15th and Market in Ballard an historic landmark, thus depriving its owner of the opportunity to complete a sale of the property to a developer. Will there be compensation for this taking - no.

This is the same Denny's that the city was only too glad to condemn when they wanted to build a Monorail station there.

Beware - your property is not safe in Seattle from the predations of the crooks in power. Hugo Chavez would be proud. So-called historic preservation is nothing more than the latest method by which the far left can steal your property. Combine that with "cars are bad" and "global warming" and we will soon live in a perfect socialist utopia.

Posted by: Steve on January 7, 2008 10:38 AM
13. This garbage thing, why not just encourage those with yards to compost in their own yard.

Right, absolutely.

BUT, you do that with fruit and vegetable scraps (preferrably uncooked) and yard waste.

Seattle wants ALL food scraps. Think, cream sauces, steak fat, RAW meat and chicken trimmings, pie crust... all things to attract vermin, big and little.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on January 7, 2008 11:13 AM
14. I don't like how Huckabee didn't answer Romney's question--though it was asked at least three times last night. Huckabee came across as an angry man during the roundtable. Romney strikes me as a man with more style than substance.

Did anyone see McCain last month on MTV's forum? I was leaning towards him prior to it and his appearance in that venue sealed the deal.

Sure, I don't wholly agree with him on EVERY issue; however, he IS the most qualified to defend America. Shouldn't this be the first and foremost qualification of our future Commander in Chief?

Oh, and I can't think of a better endorsement than Kissinger himself during these troubling times. I would love to see an endorsement from Colin Powell. I googled him and didn't come up with an endorsement by Powell. Better yet, I would love to see a McCain/Powell ticket.

Does anyone know, or care to speculate?

Michael Radford
Beaverton, OR
P.S. Go HAWKS!!

Posted by: Michael Radford on January 7, 2008 11:50 AM
15. Did anyone catch Robert Mak's program last night because one item is HUGE for King County. Apparently the county investment pool has at least $250 million or more in exposure to the subprime mortagage mess. They could lose that money and take down some smaller units like hospital and fire districts with them. I wonder what the association list looks like for investment managers and contributions? Is this another WHOOPS? I believe it is on streaming and it came at the end of the show.

Posted by: WVH on January 7, 2008 11:57 AM
16. I get a kick of discussions on taxes; sometimes Seattle folks ack like they're suffering a bout of intaxication.

Posted by: Simon on January 7, 2008 12:18 PM
17. Michael, can you even understand Kissinger anymore? As for Powell, I believe he is leaning Obama's way.

Posted by: swatter on January 7, 2008 12:38 PM
18. Seattle politicians doing a number on everyone else in the state - so what else is new. Quit your whining and buy on-line.

Posted by: cromwell on January 7, 2008 12:44 PM
19. I don't know if this thread is now dedicated to ST or Property Taxes... but I want to know what inquiring minds want to know:
what ever happened with the Pope et. al v. Costco class-action suit?

Posted by: Andrew on January 7, 2008 01:14 PM
20. Good point Andrew, I think it's close to Karmageddon.

Posted by: Simon on January 7, 2008 01:26 PM
21. New national presidential poll:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1131ap_poll_2008_national.html

(How does one make that an actual link?)

Posted by: Jessica on January 7, 2008 01:48 PM
22. Looks like the Feds are going to lance the infected boil that is the Port of Seattle. Those tax-sucking leeches deserve hard time.

Posted by: Dr. Woot on January 7, 2008 01:54 PM
23. That was a USA national poll. NH is the game tomorrow. The next odd state is South Carolina and Michigan (and I don't know what order). Huck is getting little to no traction in NH, and if that holds up, the MSM will slam his coffin shut and again, the national polls will change.

I was actually surprised Giuliani polled so well after his major gaffes of ignoring the Iowa and NH contests. He has been out of the loop for quite a while.

Posted by: swatter on January 7, 2008 01:55 PM
24. I'm seeing that Hillary is apparently playing the sympathy card in NH by showing tears in regard to her quest for the Presidency. She seems to now be saying that it's a 'personal' thing with her. If in fact those tears are real that's the first time I can recall seeing her demonstrate emotion like that. That could play well for her in NH?

Posted by: Grace on January 7, 2008 02:03 PM
25. I don't think those are phony tears because she is a lousy actress; however, I think it phony that it is only now that they allow her to be real.

Posted by: swatter on January 7, 2008 02:17 PM
26. Don't know 'bout the statement 'she is a lousy actress'; as I recall her appearance on 60-Min where she did the Tammy Wynette 'Stand By Me' bit and I though she handled it quite well; certainly better than I would have had the same circumstances befell my marriage.

Posted by: Grace on January 7, 2008 02:23 PM
27. Prediction for Saturday:
Green Bay 14 - Seattle 7
Temperature: 10 F Wind-Chill -30F
Injuries:
- Hasselback goes out in 1st Qtr with wrist injury
- Farve goes out in 2nd Qtr with shoulder injury after Kearny sack
Beer Consumed per fan at game: 96 ounces
Beer Consumed by Wisconsin Fan watching game: 144 ounces
Bratwursts consumed by Wisconsin fan watching game: 3 (with Saurkraut)
Cheese Curds consumed: 2 pounds per fan
Start of tailgate party at Lambueu Field: 5:00 AM Central
End of tailgate party at Lambueu Field: 2:00 AM Sunday morning
Other News:
After game, Holmgren announces retirement from coaching.
Following week, Farve recovers, goes to the Big D and defeats them Cowboys 24-20 and late 4th quarter drive. Goes to Superbowl and eats up Pat's secondary. After Superbowl, Farve retires.

Posted by: tc on January 7, 2008 02:48 PM
28. You bring up a great point, Grace. It is easier to get money for another cause or another pol than it is to politick for yourself.

Same goes for the race. Before, she was the wife, but now, it is her heart and soul and it is her that the D voters are rejecting. Big difference. Glad you caught it.

Posted by: swatter on January 7, 2008 02:50 PM
29. Interesting scenario you paint there 'tc' but I must disagree. Suffice to say that I think Green Bay will suffer an Arachnoleptic fit.

Posted by: Simon on January 7, 2008 02:53 PM
30. Last year I bought a motorcycle rated at 65MPG to help fight global warming, strike a blow against Big Oil, etc. My reward?? I got to pay over $1000 in sales tax and $80 for my just-renewed tabs.

If Christine, Ron, Joni, etc. cared an ounce about ecology, they would encourage, not punish, 65 mpg vehicles which also use less oil, less tire, and less paved area to park.

That they don't PROVES that they're only concerned about vacumning wallets and bank accounts.

Posted by: russell garrard on January 7, 2008 02:59 PM
31. The death penalty is the best UN-USED law ever created.

Posted by: Bart Cannon on January 7, 2008 03:34 PM
32. Why does Bill Kristol have a column in the New York Times?

Posted by: Noble on January 7, 2008 03:59 PM
33. Michigan is next after NH. It is possible, though very unlikely, that 5 different candidates could win the first 5 caucuses/primaries:

Iowa............Huckabee
Wyoming.........Romney
New Hampshire...McCain
Michigan........Giulani
South Carolina..Thompson

Probably not going to happen, but it would be very interesting if it did! I still think Romney eeks past McCain for the win in NH (thanks to Obama and to a lesser extent, Paul, taking a large share of the independents that McCain needs to win NH).

Posted by: Bill H on January 7, 2008 04:10 PM
34. --I---------------------------

--I-

What are these? Rotate them clockwise to the vertical. The shorter of the two represents a Seattle Center Monorail column and below the "I" it's foundation depth of 25 feet.

The longer of the two represents column depths of 270 plus feet or ten times the depth of the former. The Monorail column foundation depths to the earth's core for each and every column were planned by the Seattle Popular Monorail Authority for the Monorail Green Line.

This is an example of how the SPMA intentionally drove up costs on the SMP as part of their plot to kill the Monorail project by putting it to yet another vote.

Any competent honest engineer would tell you that all that extra foundation in relation to the above ground column support structure would not provide any extra appreciable benefit to the system and would be a complete waste. Don't think the SPMA didn't know this.

You will then notice the vote they put before the people. It was worded so that you could not reject their ridiculous proposal on how they wanted to proceed with the project without accepting the alternative that then "no new monorail would be built."

You were scammed.

But, you did vote for 2005 Seattle Proposition 2 to change the composition of the SPMA to a majority elected Board, and that was to begin last year (with the vote).

Ron Sims had the elections for those new SPMA Board members kept off the ballot despite your vote and the law. Why? Well it's obvious. The people voted for the change to oust the crooks and let the SMP succeed.

The crooks don't want the SMP to succeed.

Posted by: Mark Mywords on January 7, 2008 04:21 PM
35. Definitely a case of obvious intaxication. :)

Posted by: Simon on January 7, 2008 04:29 PM
36. Hey, where is Duffman now that his inevitable future president, Hillary, no longer looks so inevitable. I don't think I was the only one who said she would NOT be elected president and that she might not even win the Dem nomination. That's looking more and more like that might be the case. She is definitely not out of the race, but she is definitely hurt badly. Obama is starting to look like the "inevitable" Dem nominee.

However, did you hear the stupid thing that Obama said--seems he thinks the Dems should get some credit for the reduction in violence in Iraq. In his fantasy world, it wasn't the Surge that reduced the violence it was the Dems takeover of Congress in the 2006 election! Riiiiiight!

Posted by: Bill H on January 7, 2008 04:39 PM
37. Bill H,

You are making no sense at all, Who in their right mind thinks that Ron Paul supporters would ever consider voting for McCain? You think Romney takes NH because Ron Paul will siphon off independent voters!?! Good golly that is idiotic. "Hey Ron Paul supporter, who do you like in this election..." "Oh I was thinking of voting for that military establishment fellow, you know the one who supports sending more troops to Iraq, McCain."

Posted by: Doug on January 7, 2008 04:42 PM
38. Hey Doug, you are the one making no sense--can you read or not? What I said was "thanks to Obama and to a lesser extent, Paul, taking a large share of the independents that McCain needs to win NH".

Here, I'll take it slow so that even you can understand. Independents are what McCain needs to win the primary, because the Republican base tends not to like McCain. Are you with me so far. Many independents are going to vote in the Democratic primary rather than in the Republican primary in order to vote for Obama. Many independents are also going to vote for Ron Paul because New Hampshire was the targeted state for Libertarians, which is what Paul is. He will get a lot of votes of New Hampshire independents because of his Libertarian bent.

So, here is the summary for you:
1) There are a lot of Independents in New Hampshire.
2) Because of Obama's surge, most of the independents are going to vote in the Dem primary rather than in the Rep primary.
3) A lot of independents in NH are libertarians. Many of these independents will vote for Obama.
so, 4) McCain won't get a large enough share of Independents to beat Romney.

You are truly idiotic if you cannot understand this...

Posted by: Bill H on January 7, 2008 04:59 PM
39. Bill H: We work with good 'ol Duffman. He has not reported in in over two weeks? In SA and not near communications or electricity but did get to a point weeks ago where he was able to call in. He mentioned then to tell all his friends on this blog that he was still rootin for Hillary. We think he's a bit kooky too; but such is life livin with 'ol Duffer.

Posted by: Harmon on January 7, 2008 05:07 PM
40. WVH @ 15 - I'm glad you caught this story and commented. I can't believe there isn't more media about this and more analysis. I only saw the story in passing so don't know all the implications yet but I'm worried the local taxpayer might ultimately be on the hook for the non-performing parts of the portfolio.

If the funds end up being discounted to say 50%, where does the rest come from? I suppose they'd look to the remainder of the $4 billion dollar fund and hope it could perform well enough to make up for the loss over time.

Posted by: TaxPayer on January 7, 2008 05:24 PM
41. I think that all this national talk on Drudge about Hillary dropping out of the race is lame. If she can't handle one lost primary and cries, she doesn't have the mettle to BE president. If you want the job, you have to be tough and determined. Not quit after one bad day. (yes, it could turn into several bad days for her, but she shouldn't be in the corner crying after the first day!) In 2000, President Bush dropped a primary to McCain early on, but I don't remember him crying about it. He pressed on and redoubled his efforts. Hillary may not BE tough enough to be president.

Posted by: Michele on January 7, 2008 05:47 PM
42. If any one saw NBC Evening News a few minutes ago, you saw Tim Russert reinforce Bill H's point about Obama's garnering 'independent' votes to the detriment of McCain. Spot on Bill.

Posted by: Simon on January 7, 2008 06:05 PM
43. I wonder if the Fed investigation of Port slimeballs will spill over to the ultra slimeballs at King County? There's gotta be some connections with all that free money flying around. I wonder if the Fed guys have the stones to chase those leads?

Posted by: Ever Hopeful on January 7, 2008 06:08 PM
44. Swatter @ 23:

Yes, I believe I mentioned it was a "national poll." That doesn't make it any less interesting. At least, not to me. You'll note that the Dems numbers are almost mirror image to the NH polls, while the GOP is way off. It backs up the conventional wisdom that NH annoints the Dem nominee, but not necessarily the GOP nominee.

As for Huckabee, I was suprised at the Iowa bounce (I am a supporter, but am not entirely delusional just occasionally frustrated :) ). However, I think it's possible the GOP could have 2 or 3 viable candidates very late in the process.

As for the others, Giuliani and Romney suprised me: the former for how high his numbers are and the latter for how low.

Posted by: Jessica on January 7, 2008 06:19 PM
45. Harmon, is SA South America or San Antonio? Since you said something about no communications or electricity, I assume the former!

Simon, I didn't see Tim Russert, but thanks for the back up...

Back to the OSU-LSU game. It was looking like OSU was going to run away with it, but now LSU has scored 24 unanswered points!

Posted by: Bill H on January 7, 2008 06:24 PM
46. Well, make that mirror to the Dem NH polls from yesterday as I just heard today's. :)

Posted by: Jessica on January 7, 2008 06:26 PM
47. Good lord, this is the tactic of a lazy man. "Open" threads are simply an invitation to people to start cussing each other out rather than discuss important topic. My what has become of Stefan's blog while he is away.

Mught as well call this blog HA-II.

Posted by: pbj on January 7, 2008 06:34 PM
48. But pbj, at least the open thread in this blog actually DOESN'T contain reams of foul language as it would over at HA

Posted by: Michele on January 7, 2008 06:48 PM
49. Mark @ 34: The Monorail is in shut-down phase as we speak. They will be ceasing all operations within a month. When you say "The crooks don't want the SMP to succeed," do you mean "didn't" want it to succeed?

Ever Hopeful @ 43: I am in total agreement that the Port contracting issues exposed by that audit was the result of "slimeballs"mismanaging their business. However, do you have specifics regarding King County that the feds can look at instead of a generic statement such as "free money flying around"?? I don't doubt you (not in the least bit, really!) but prosecutors and auditors look at those kind of statements and want to know specific issues with details, not generic statements. They do not have unlimited resources to go chasing every little "scandal" that someone screams about. Too many people have cried "Wolf" in the past. Hit us with some detailed specifics.

Posted by: Michael H on January 7, 2008 08:01 PM
50. Michael H. @ 49: No Michael, I mean the crooks "don't" want the SMP to succeed. As mentioned above, the Monorail killer vote was a fraud, a sham - i.e. not legal. Ron Sims and crew wrongfully kept SPMA Board member elections off the ballot last year. Again their actions were not lawful.

What makes you think the current SPMA has the legal authority to shut down and dissolve the SMP? Are you connected with the SPMA?

Posted by: Mark Mywords on January 7, 2008 08:36 PM
51. #43 I think the Feds will look into "Port" cauldron.Look what happened to the last Fed who would'nt do his job.

Posted by: George A. Smith on January 7, 2008 08:42 PM
52. Michael @ 50 - Thanks for the clarification!

This is not a conspiracy. Why do you ASSume that I am connected with the SPMA?? Sheesh! I was just conveying information I heard. It's NOT whether I think the curent SPMA has the legal authority to shut down and dissolve. It is simply a fact that that is gong to happen.

Anyways, I heard through a "friend of a friend" in the know that the SPMA was ceasing operations.

If you don't think they have the authority to do so, why don't you file a lawsuit to prevent them from doing just that?

Posted by: Michael H on January 7, 2008 08:47 PM
53. Bill H, did it hit you yet? Have you figured it out yet? Those 'Independents' that will vote for Ron Paul would NEVER in a MILLION YEARS vote for McCain. Therefore, Ron Paul taking Independent votes has absolutely NO BEARING on whether Romney beats McCain. Obama's support does, Ron Paul's doesn't. Let me know when that lightbulb turns on.

Posted by: Doug on January 7, 2008 08:48 PM
54. Doug, did it hit you yet? Do you know anything at all about New Hampshire? Obviously not. You've already figured out the Obama issue, which as I clearly indicated was the primary area where McCain will lose independent votes.

However, there are a LOT of Libertarians in New Hampshire. New Hampshire was the designated state that Libertarians elected to move to a few years ago. Not all Libertarians agree with Ron Paul's stance on foreign policy (there was even an article in the Wall Street Journal about this a few months ago--look it up). Sure, the outspoken Ron Paul supporters like him because of his Iraq War position, but a LOT of Libertarians like him for everything else BUT his foreign policy position. Some of these people may have voted for McCain if Ron Paul was not in the race, but will vote for Ron Paul IN SPITE OF his Iraq War position, NOT because of it.

In the future actually know something about what you are writing before you embarrass yourself again. In the meantime, find your own set of lightbulbs. I have plenty of light here...

Posted by: Bill H on January 7, 2008 09:04 PM
55. Taxpayer,

Something is seriously wrong with this picture. If there is a potential for a quarter billion or more in loss, well to me that is real money. If the loss actualizes, there will be cuts in services and/or an increase in taxes. I wonder if the county council is investigating this?

Who were the financial advisors
Why were these investments recommended
Are there conflicts of interest
Will smaller government units like fire districts and hospital districts take a hit

The lamestream media probably won't investigate. I hope someone is asking questions.

Posted by: WVH on January 7, 2008 09:14 PM
56. Michael @ 52:

You are welcome for the clarification. Why do you assume I assumed you were connected with the SPMA? You made comments about the SMP like you had insider information, and I simply asked if you were connected with the SPMA. Again, I'm happy to clarify this for you this time, but maybe you're are trying to read faster than you can comprehend.

If you think that it is a fact that the SMP is going to shut down and dissolve, apparently you are some sort of Nostradumbass and maybe you should take that talent of yours to the nearest lotto ticket sales outlet.

And gee, with all that special insight of yours, I can't understand why you didn't already know that the lawsuits have been in play for some time now.

Instead of getting your little pink panties in a bunch, why don't you try and absorb good information charitably placed before your too lazy to do it for yourself self lest you remain completely ignorant.

Posted by: Mark Mywords on January 7, 2008 09:21 PM
57. Gee... if you don't care about (support) ANY of the candidates... does that mean you have "electial dysfunction?"

Check here for the Star Wars guide to the candidates: http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/526482501.html

Posted by: Hinton on January 7, 2008 09:56 PM
58. Mark @ 52 -

Amazing that you take a sincere "Thank You" and twist it in the way that you have. Why did I presume that you assumed that I was connected with the SPMA? Gee, moron, lets see - you said "Are you connected with the SPMA?" as if I was some SPMA insider or former employee. One doesn't have to be connected to an entity to get information about it.

There was no reason, moron, to get nasty in your response. I was charitably placing good information before you so that you didn't continue to look like a moron - but you apparently like looking like a moron. How's that working for you?

Sorry to be nasty in return, but you deserve it. You are the "Nostradumbass" - because by the end of January (or February at the latest) the SPMA will no longer exist as a governmental agency. And, with all YOUR special insight, you would know that
all the lawsuits you make reference to were all either settled with the plaintiffs, or DISMISSED before the end of the year- dismissed as in Summary Judgement that the claims put forth in those lawsuits were a bunch of CRAP.

You certainly make an effort to come across as a knowledgeable citizen, and it is apparent that you care about the shenanigans foisted on the King County public by the idiotic (if not corrupt) King County Executive. But you will never be taken seriously - NEVER - if you claim that you have some great legal insight yet personally LACK THE BALLS to do something about it yourself. Ranting about "this was a fraud" or "this was a sham" rings hollow unless you present documented evidence, such as Stefan did with regard to the election stolen from Dino Rossi in 2004.

So you claim that I have little pink panties and that they are in a bunch - you either have a serious (if not illegal) fetish, or you are just a moron. Feel free to respond - but if you do please stick to the things I say and don't change the subject. Also feel free to check Court records and you will see that the lawsuits have been settled or dismissed, and CALL THE SPMA and ask them when their next Board meeting is and what is on the agenda. You will be unpleasantly surprised.

Stick that in your pipe - or backside - and smoke it.

Posted by: Michael H on January 8, 2008 04:41 AM
59. This "mark my words" character is just a lame troll. Stop feeding it and it will leave.

The monorail authority will be gone in a matter of weeks. There was a public records disclosure act lawsuit against it until recently, but that ended. There was no need for elections of SPMA boardmembers last year because the SPMA is dissolving itself. What it is doing (dissolving itself) is consistent with the proposition that was approved by Seattle voters in Nov. 2005.

Posted by: Coot on January 8, 2008 09:03 AM
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