Christians are sneaky people who'll stop at nothing in order to spread their fundamentalist ideology. Why, they'll even try to hijack a perfectly good commercial holiday like Christmas to spread messages about religion, the Bible and some Jewish guy born 2,000 years ago in a stable.
On Tuesday, Matt Drudge, being the best journalist ever, was brave enough to lay the hammer down on Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee for shameless proselytizing after his campaign inserted a subliminal "Floating Cross" into his "What Really Matters" Christmas message.
Skeptics might say that the "Cross" in question was simply a white knickknack shelf holding ornaments. If this was the only instance of a candidate using hidden crosses to brainwash voters I'd agree.
The Ron Paul campaign released "Season's Greetings from the Ron Paul Family" on December 11 featuring the candidate's family singing "Deck the Halls" and decorating the family home. Look closer. After 26 seconds elapse, take a gander over Paul's right shoulder as the video closes. You'll see a row of vertical crosses set into window panes by a white Christmas tree.
John McCain debuted "My Christmas Story" on December 20. The ad features a voice-over by McCain recounting his captivity in a North Vietnamese POW camp and telling about a moment of kindness shown by a jailer. Although it is hard to tell in the video, there is a brief moment where you can almost see a cross that had been drawn in sand.
This isn't just a Republican issue either. In "Presents" Hillary Clinton is shown wrapping boxes marked "Universal Healthcare", "Alternative Energy" and "Bring Troops Home". I think I'll be re-gifting those presents; hopefully she left a receipt in the packages. On every box, outlined in green ribbon, you can clearly see a cross. Furthermore when Hillary gives her "I approve this message" disclaimer at the end of the video the New York Senator is shown brandishing the cross in her left hand.
The John Edwards ad "Season" focuses on the candidate's concern about the plight of homeless veterans during the holidays. All Americans can agree that not nearly enough money is being spent helping 45-year old Vietnam War vets holding cardboard signs on street corners. Next to Edwards' right shoulder you can clearly see five Christmas tree lights aligned in the shape of a cross. Not a perfectly symmetrical cross mind you. More like a constellation up in the night sky kind of cross. I mean come on. If the Big Dipper is supposed to look like a bear then clearly those five lights are a cross.
Rudy Giuliani's Holiday Video "Same Gift" does not have a cross in it. Not anywhere. Thought I saw one in the corner but it turned out to be just the carpet. Rudy's acerbic personality came through again, this time offending Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul supporters when the former New York mayor promised to give Americans a fruitcake with a bow on it.
Fred Thompson has not released a Christmas message yet. Rumor has it that one is in production ready to debut on Late Night with Conan O'Brien in time for Super Tuesday in February. But he was cross with that shrewish looking moderator during the last Fox News Debate in Iowa when he refused to do the show of hands circus seal trick that has become standard in all presidential debates.
Posted by DonWard at December 20, 2007 08:06 PM | Email ThisThe Huckabee cross is bright, large, by itself (not part of a larger pattern) and is no surprise if you've heard about the incident where he pretended to carry on a phone conversation with God at a governors meeting. He has used God before. The only really disturbing fact is the fact that he will not admit that he did it purposely.
Posted by: Evan on December 21, 2007 02:40 AMRon Paul, a true Christian, lives his life by example. If he is a good example, other will want to emulate his example. Ron Paul sets a very high standard. Ron Paul actually has family in his video, instead of just talking about family... and the spirit of Christmas.
Posted by: a Rocket Scientist on December 21, 2007 04:49 AMI am surprised there aren't more Democrats coming over to the R side considering he is the next Jimmy Carter.
Posted by: swatter on December 21, 2007 06:55 AMI am not a Huckabee fan, but good lord this is ridiculous. It shows just how far into lunacy we have fallen as a nation.
2. All of the candidates running, with the exception of Alan Keyes have held elected office. There is a record of whether they were trying to shove their particular faith down some one's throat. Both Romney and Huckabee were governors. I am not aware that either discriminated against individuals or groups because of their faith. There seem to be policy differences with each, but a policy difference is not discrimination on the basis of religion. The fact that an individual professes a faith does not equate to bigotry.
3. There is nothing wrong with any person's acknowledgement of the symbol of their faith unless one is an atheist or secular progressive. They seem to be like vampires and the sight of the cross scares them. I applaud Joe Liberman for maintaining his Orthodox Jewish faith. That makes him attractive to me because of the values of that faith. As I recall, he was one of the few dems to publically state Bubba's behavior in the Oval Office was appauling.
4. Yes, in my opinion, this was a huge waste of time pointing out this optical illusion. In the minds of an atheist or secular progressive, it was not. It is one skirmism in the war against Christians and all religion. They want they religion of atheism as the primary religion and will stop at nothing until that is accomplished.
I don't know who I am supporting for president, yet, but I support Huckabee's right to use symbols of his faith.
Time to get a collective grip on the religion in politics thing. Years of left wing whining has raised to sensitivity level so high that hysteria is the rule...kind of like most PC nonsense.
-steve, not planning on supporting Huckabee.
Posted by: Steve in Queen Anne on December 21, 2007 12:30 PMI called it an optical illusion, the strategy to demonize those who use religious symbols is not an illusion. There is an active attempt to totally eliminate religion from the public square. This is merely one skirmish in that war.
Posted by: WVH on December 21, 2007 01:28 PMRe: Huckabee's ad - looks like Hope, AR breeds slickmeisters.
Posted by: ks on December 22, 2007 03:07 PM"Although, Chrisitans are accused of being the Taliban, most Christians that I know do not force their religions on others. Just about all atheists and secular progressives that I have met do."
How many atheists have ever come knocking on your door, freely trespassing asking you to "forget the lord"? Does our money say "in atheism we trust?" WHo is forcing whom here me dear?
And yet with all that religious "better than ever one else" upbringing, we still end up with the Ted Haggards, Bakkers, Saggarts and Fred Phelps of the world. Tell me, when was the last time a organized group of atheists protested at a soldier's funeral. And before you go there, the liberal groups do not count because they include beleivers in their midst. And what about priests banging little boys??
And crime in America. Atheists are such an admitted minority in this country that even if every atheist was a criminal (I am sure you think so in your own mind), that would still not account for all the crime in this country.
Every Christian I have met is a narrow minded bigot intent on imposing a theocracy on this nation.
Posted by: Atheist on December 23, 2007 02:19 PMHow many secular/progressive/agnotic types who value diversity will start a lawsuit if someone says Merry Christmas? How many atheists are intent on forcing their views on society in every where from schools to workplaces or even the courts. This Danny Westneat story:
"The past few weeks, visitors to the U.S. District Court building have been treated to a hapless display of irises, primroses and other spring flowers.
Why spring flowers in the dark of winter? It was a rush replacement. For what has been there in winters past -- dozens of bright-red poinsettias.
I love this city, including its eccentric liberal ways. But I'm embarrassed for us because of where this story is going.
Yep, you guessed it -- some who work there complained about the poinsettias. Too Christian, they said. Too symbolic of one belief system.
How would non-Christians feel walking past a bunch of poinsettias? Should a courthouse -- a place about equality and the Constitution -- favor one religion over the others?
Long story short: No more poinsettias in the lobby (workers can still have them in their offices). The landlord, the General Services Administration, felt it had no choice after hearing "a series of complaints" that poinsettias were "too Christmas-y," says Bill Lesh, the agency's spokesman.
"It's just sad," Lesh says. "It's a no-win situation. We live in a day and age where somebody is always willing to be insulted by practically anything....."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2004088495_danny23.html
Like it or not, this country was founded by predominately Christians. So, you get a little irritated when people excercise their free speech. Do you also get upset when doorbellers for political candidates knock on your door?
This country is one of the few in the world where atheists like you can say anything they want about the dominant religion and not have your lame a$$ beheaded. Try taking a Torah, Bible, or Buddhist texts into Saudi Arabia. Try practicing other faiths or no faith in Malaysia. This country and the predominant Christians allow and encourage people like you to spout off without fear of reprisal. One comes to Christianity by faith, it is purely a voluntary decision and one can just as easily leave. We don't hunt you down and kill you, like some other faiths when you leave. No, Buster, you don't know how good you have it that you butt was born here and not some real theocracy. Just as you are entitled to push your faith of secularism. I am entitled to get back in your face and demand my Consitutinal right to practice my faith. You have highlighted that this is a cultural war and many Christians are waking up a little late to that fact.
So, God Bless you and Merry Christmas.
But this is just what Huckabee and Romney have done lately. Huckabee's TV ad with the not-so-subtle cross in the background, and Romney's speech in which he declares his faith, were acts only a Pharasee would love. No real Christian should vote for a candidate who behaves in this way.
In TV ads, nothing is unintentional. Huckabee's bookshelf is intended to suggest a cross. To think that it is a coincidence is naive. TV ads are too expensive to leave even a second to chance. Every image has to pull it's weight and must have some purpose. The purpose of the bookshelf is to suggest a cross without actually being one. Huckabee knows that actually featuring one would be going too far for even his Christian target segment.
Jim's article elsewhere on Sound Politics refers to a House Resolution declaring Christmas to be an important holiday to America. But this resolution has no real effect. It takes no action. It's only purpose is to help those who voted for it to get re-elected by having them publicly defend a religious holiday. These politicians assume it will be popular with their constituencies. So it is another form of public declaration of faith that Jesus would have opposed. No real Christian should vote for anyone who voted for this pointless resolution. Voting for it was against the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Furthermore, this resolution wasted time in Congress. We pay our representatives to work on the business of government, not to get themselves re-elected. No fiscal conservative should appreciate what those who voted for this resolution have done. Time in Congress is probably worth millions of dollars a minute. They have wasted the taxpayers' money.
The Constitution does not authorize these kinds of resolutions, so under the 10th amendment, they are unconstitutional. All who voted for this resolution not only violated the Bible, they violated their oaths of office to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.
Yes, as Jim points elsewhere, McDermott voted against the measure, but probably for the "wrong" reasons. He probably voted against it because he is an atheist. I'm sure most of the people on this forum will dislike him for this. But there is a good argument that good Christians should have at least abstained on this resolution.
Unless you like Pharisees.
I'm a proud atheist, but I agree with Jesus on this one, and I support the Constitution as well. These politicians are despicable. No Christian should vote for Huckabee or Romney. They are worse than the money-changers in the temple.
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on December 23, 2007 11:10 PMThe reference to go into thy closet has been translated in other versions of the Bible as "go into your inner room." "go away by yourself," "all alone," "your [most] private room," "enter into thy chamber," and "go into your room."
The reason Jesus opposes such public prayer, is that he opposes using prayer as a means of manipulating others or demonstrating your own piety for personal or political gain. But this is just what Romney and Huckabee have done.
No good Christian should support either of them. They are USING Christianity.
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on December 23, 2007 11:25 PM"How many secular/progressive/agnotic types who value diversity will start a lawsuit if someone says Merry Christmas?"
Oh puhleeeze. talk about hyperbole! Please point to the case law where an atheist sued over someone saying "Mery Christmas". Christians are angry because their hegemony on the holidays is being challenged to be inclusive of others as well. There is nothing anti-christian about saying "Happy Holidays", yet the Christians want to force everyone into saying "Merry Christmas" ignoring Hannukah, Winter Solstice and Kwanzaa. That is what is really is all about.
"This country is one of the few in the world where atheists like you can say anything they want about the dominant religion and not have your lame a$$ beheaded."
Funny, they used a similar argument to keep black in their place during the 60's, telling them that they were lucky to even be allowed to walk the streets.
And since you are such a good Christian Soldier wvh, HAVE you SERVED IN THE MILITARY to defend your Christian throcracy???
Please don't lecture me until you have candy. I have served in this country's military and it is not a Christian nation. Seperation of church and state are vital to keep us from becoming the taliban.
Posted by: Atheist on December 24, 2007 02:54 AMHAPPY HOLDIAYS! HAPPY HANUKKAH! HAPPY KWANZAA!
Posted by: Atheist on December 24, 2007 02:57 AMThe seething anger , frustration, suspicion, distrust and even hatred that pour out of your letters speak volumes about your desire to prevail.
Us dumb christian folk call that PRIDE and original sin a.k.a.-The desire to be recognized as better (smarter, intellectually superior...) than everyone else.
Us dumb christians are well aware of that because we see it in ourselves too. It doesnt go away---ever
You see all Christians as dumb and narrow minded....
could that be because they don't agree with you as you try your damndist to straighten us out-- to "see the light" (hah) of your world view which you contend is "higher" than ours.
Well Merry Christmas anyway athiest.
God loves you
-and Christian hipocrates too.
scripture says "no one is righteous - not one..."
Peace, love , joy, grace, forgiveness, ... are what christianity (and most Christians) stand for-
even though we miss the mark too much of the time.
I'm not smarter or superior or higher than you.
God is infinately higher & smarter & superior to both of us.
Love
a neighbor
Atheist said:
"HAPPY HOLDIAYS! HAPPY HANUKKAH! HAPPY KWANZAA!
1. I believe you gave your religious heritage away as Hanukkah is a Jewish holiday, albeit a minor one. You have the same religious heritage as Bruce G. Are you the same person? I did not grow up Jewish and it seem that many secular Jews hate Christians and are behind many attempts to totally eliminate religion of any type from the public square. Am I wrong about that?
2. No atheist, they did not use the arguments that are used against Blacks that you spout off. You are lucky to be living here instead of some theocracy or even the USSR under communism which routinely killed Jews and Pentecostal Christians.
Are you and Bruce G the same person?
3. Now Bruce G. for an atheist of Jewish heritage to tell any Christian the meaning of what Jesus said or meant on Christmas is just beyond the pale. You have said on many threads you hate all religions and particularly think Christianity is evil. So, what point are you trying to make. Your instruction to one of your team member Michelle, to use the term Pharisee, is that the coordinated campaign term that team members are using against all who oppose Paul? So, any Christian that publically states that this is a Christian nation by number of believers and by heritage is to be called a Pharisee?
4. Since you have become so familar with Christian Scripture, here is a passage from the Gospel of Mathew:
"15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."
Now what exactly is the fruit of the Paul campaign.
a. He consorts with Nazis, Aryan Nation types, and the KKK
b. Locally, one of your team members is close to a psychological breakdown, see postings of Public Bulldog on the open thread.
b. Another team member is so focusd on one issue politics they would destroy their political party and everything in the way because they have no sense of balance.
c. And, you who seemed to have staked your entire being and reputation on the Paul candidacy.
Some fruit. Your group as Satherring has pointed out on another thread is acting like Bolsheviks and I have called you Brownshirts.
If there is any group that needs the gift that Christ brought to this world, it is your team. Don't try to use a religion that you hate to make arguments. Argue the politics of your racist loving mentor if you can.
God Bless you and MERRY CHRISTMAS.
I am off to services and will enjoy the rest of my Christmas.
MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and yours.
Posted by: WVH on December 24, 2007 11:15 AM1) No I am neither Jewish nor Bruce G. WHy didn't you accise me of being African American, as I mentioned Kwanzaa?? Could it be your anti-semetic inner self coming out? Or could it be that someone who claims to have a PhD doesn't understand the meaning of the word atheist?
2) Those were the exact same arguments used to keep blacks down in the 60's. I have an uncle who could tell you a thing or two about that era. Unlike uppity blacks like yourself who got theirs and left the othes behind, my family decided to help others liberate themselves instead of everyone for themselves.
3) And I am STILL waiting for the case law in which someone was sued for saying "Merry Christmas". Will you admit you lied or simply persist with this myth along with your diety myths and mytsicisms??
4) The so called "Christmas Tree" is a tradition stolen from pagans. They want it back. No papal decre from the last vestiges of the Roman Empire should be allowed to tear it from them. Isn't it funny how Christians lie. They will claim up and down that the "Christmas Tree" originated in Christianity, yet when confronted with removal of such from the public square will deny it has anything to do with Christianity. Oh heaven forbid you call it a "holiday tree", that is a "war on christmas". And they have the NERVE to complain about anyone else being "PC"!!!!!
Reminds me of the rich guy that is a braggart all year except tax day. Come the tax man, it looks like a rummage sale (to quote CCR).
Christians, you are judged on your actions, not your words. And so far, I am not impressed. Just a bunch of common ordinary garden variety scoundrels as far as I can see.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
Did I miss anything? Why is it the lunatic fringe goes crazy on religious days. Can't wait for Easter.
1. I am Black. I wouldn't dare accuse you of being like me. You are too lame. Before you accuse me of being anti-Semitic again, My great grandfather was Jewish. Anyhow, Public Bulldog accuses me of being in the pocket of the Israel lobby. I do support the International Congress of Christians and Jews.
2. You said;
"Unlike uppity blacks like yourself who got theirs and left the othes behind, my family decided to help others liberate themselves instead of everyone for themselves...."
Do you know what I do with my life?
3. You said:
"Or could it be that someone who claims to have a PhD doesn't understand the meaning of the word atheist?
Ask Bruce G. I graduated from the same school where he is pursuing his masters.
4. Now regarding Merry Christmas. This from the Alliance Defense Fund:
a. "This year, school officials in Jackson County, Ga., attempted to censor staff and teachers from wearing any pins, angels, crosses or clothing that might evoke religious expression at Christmas. Teachers were even asked not to wish anyone a "Merry Christmas." However, one teacher decided to stand up to Scrooge by contacting the Alliance Defense Fund. An ADF attorney let the district know that this overreaction was completely unconstitutional.
"Frankly, it's ridiculous that we're even debating whether it's OK to say 'Merry Christmas,'" ADF's David Cortman said. "I'm sure just about everyone would rather have a Merry Christmas than a meaningless winter holiday."
http://www.bpnews.net/bpcolumn.asp?ID=2082
b. "HOLIDAY BLUES
Lawsuit challenges Christmas-music ban
Federal appeals court to rule on school district's policy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 16, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
A parent is challenging a New Jersey school district's ban on Christmas music with a lawsuit that has reached a federal appeals court.
Michael Stratechuk, who has two children enrolled in the South Orange-Maplewood School District, filed a brief yesterday in the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia, asserting the school district's ban on religious music conveys the impermissible, government-sponsored message of disapproval of and hostility toward religion in violation of the First Amendment's Establishment Clause."
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47925
c. "Don't Wish Me a "Merry Christmas"
By Vincent Phillip Muñoz
Posted December 25, 2001
Can you imagine a public high school principal forbidding her teachers from talking about race during Black History Month? Unthinkable, especially in these enlightened, politically correct times.
Yet this scenario exactly parallels what King County, Wash., executive Ron Sims told religious employees who work for county agencies in and around Seattle.
In a November memo to all King County employees, Sims required that all workplace holiday celebrations remain "religion-neutral." The memo includes examples of neutrality, such as, "naming the celebration(s) 'Holiday Celebration' or 'Winter Celebration'; using general greetings such as 'Happy Holidays' or 'Holiday Greetings'; using decorations that are commonplace -- poinsettias, evergreen boughs, lights -- but not using religious symbols nor (sic) practices."
When word of the memo leaked, Sims' office reportedly was flooded with complaints.
http://www.claremont.org/publications/pubid.207/pub_detail.asp
As for being a hypocrite and bad behavior. That is spread throughout the atheist community as well. Stalin was no walk in the park and I guess you know China's official religion is atheism. That Tiannamen Square, thing, guess you don't remember.
I know there is a full moon, but you are usually angry, even for an atheist. Dude, you need some serious Christmas cheer. Can't wait for Easter.
You are about as black as Bill Clinton. As for your great grand daddy, well there were Jews that turned in other Jews during the holocaust in order to try to save their own hides. This behavior is well known, so citing some alleged Jewish ancestry is meaningless.
"Do you know what I do with my life?"
Well it looks to me as if you spend it debating on blogs. We certainly know you never served in the military to defend this country. But you are sure good on lecturing people about patriotism aren't you??
"Ask Bruce G. I graduated from the same school where he is pursuing his masters."
Well I certainly hope Bruce is paying more attention in class than you do.
1) And I am STLL waiting for case law where someone was sued for saying "Merry Christmas". The only thing you have done is provide a dubious source (WND, puhleeeeese.) where a person who was asked not to proselytize and they sued because they wanted to proselytize. You have NOT cited ANY case where the person saying "Merry Christmas" was sued for doing so.
Finally even Christian scholars ADMIT that the mythical Christ was not born on Dec 25th. So you are not celebrating anyone's birth. The 25th of December was chosen
Finally, as a last gasp of your failing argument, you throw out Stalin as an ahteist murderer. Well let me tell you he attended a Jesuit instituion. Perhaps that is where he gained his murderous tendencies? Oh and Hitler was a Christian just as the current pope was a Nazi. Any dictator you can point to makes use of religion in just the same ways as did Hitler. The followers must be taught to reject all science and reason and not think for themselves. This isn't something any atheist encourages. It is what religion demands.
The only one angry here is you. And to think you should have better things to do on what you claim is such a holy day for you, yet you sit there in the dark in your basement "monitoring" blogs for any dissenter who dare not believe.
Ron Simms is no atheist. So I guess you really have a problem of Christians against Christians. Sorry hon, can't help you there.
Posted by: Atheist on December 25, 2007 04:01 AMThis blogg certainly has morphed...
You would probably agree - "familiarity breeds contempt"
My guess is that you grew up in the US - maybe even in a christian home. You have contempt for Christianity because you see the hypocracy in the institutions and the people.
Do you have contempt for Islam or Hinduism or Judaism or.....?
To be fair - you should have contempt for them too.
I believe those institutions & followers of them are equally full of corruption & hippocracy.. you just have to get close enough to see it..because PEOPLE are that way... people will disappoint you & I should know - I am one & so are you
The message of Christianity (even though it has been used as a tool for evil by fallen men) is forgiveness & hope & restoration.
Lot's of people are celebrating that today -
Merry Christmas Athiest
and you too WH : )
--they should put spell-check on this blog
Posted by: Worker Bee on December 25, 2007 08:00 AM1. You are right, I might be as Black as Clinton or Sharpton or Obama, for that matter. My family has been in this country over 200 hundred years. Anyone's family who has been in this country over 200 years is really a mutt because you never know what the cat brought in. I am proud of my heritage. One thing that my family never instilled in me is to be an angry bigot like you.
My family had a real appreciation of faith and the promise of this country, unlike you.
2. What has serving in the military got to do with anything? Did a lot of the lefties that you probably glorify ever serve in the military? I'm not aware that Kennedy or Kucinach did, am I wrong?
3. Blogging is my hobby. I don't bake cookies or knit. Blogging is the new public square. Must be your hobby too, you're here, aren't you? Anyhow, I do a lot of things, since I can both chew gum and walk, unlike some people.
4. What is it about you angry ______ males. A woman gets a little education and you go around the bend. You sound a bit lit the Taliban in your rantings. I'm sorry you didn't get to do what you wanted in life. Many in my family joined the military to get their education and it was a springboard for them. Sorry, you didn't take advantage of the benefits. Maybe, you wouldn't be so bitter. You are angry and belittle my education because I had the chance to get educated and took it. What a tiny, bitter person you are.
5. Now, regarding Stalin and Hitler, they were atheists. I imagine that you might have believed in Christmas at one time, but are an atheist and very, very bitter angry person now.
This site discusses the atheism of Stalin, Lenin, and Hitler.
http://www.fixedearth.com/hlsm.html
5. If you don't like my examples, well too bad. I made my point. So, pour on some invective.
6. I never said Ron Sims was an atheist. He is an ordained Baptist minister of what denomination, not sure. He probably is not ordained of one of the more conservative denominations or he wouldn't have issued that lame order. There are different sects of each denomination, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America which ordains gays is very different from the Missouri Synod, which does not.
You are so angry and bitter, so typical of many atheists that I have met over the years. You remind me of that doctor who is trying to get "In God We Trust" off the coins. He sued about his daughter having to say the pledge. The kid is in a religious school and is Christian. He lied, accused, and was perpetually angry. No wonder the kid's mother left his lame a$$ at the curb and went on to have a better life for herself and her child.
Too much anger, like you carry around is toxic. I am glad that I periodically blog here. I do not associate with angry, bitter people. Blogging reminds me why.
May 2008 bring some sunlight and less bitterness into your life. I doubt if you will ever see the good things God has given you and how much God loves you even though you reject and hate Him. The greatest gift my family every gave me aside from their unconditional love is to know that God exists and God is real. Unfortunately, not all received that gift.
MERRY CHRISTMAS and JOY TO THE WORLD.
I agree with you about spell check. I am a terrible speller.
I think the thing I cherish most about Believers is their optimism and joy. I have met many atheists over the years, I don't recall ever meeting one that was truly happy.
I wish you and yours the best CHRISTMAS day possible.
Posted by: WVH on December 25, 2007 09:20 AMI am going off to enjoy my day. Here is the site to research case law on Christmas, since you will probably just spend the day being bitter. Knock yourself out:
http://www.llrx.com/features/christmas.htm
MERRY CHRISTMAS and JOY TO THE WORLD!
Well I knew sooner or later it had to come out. The "we are all flawed people" argument to justify Christian atrocities, pedophiles and hippocrites. Right along with ahteists are the mass murderers (Stalin Hitler Moa) because that is the record that has been engraved in your brain and you are simply replaying it over and over ad nauseum.
Posted by: Atheist on December 25, 2007 12:32 PM
2. Oh so now I am a lefty because I am not a god fearing Christian like yourself eh? Yet another epithet to try to lump me into the general category of undesirables (in your mind) in order to avoid having to present a cogent argument with facts and sources. This is very similar to how many gifted individuals of my race were dismissed by white bigots who simply could not face the fact that someone with black skin might be of high intelligence.
And changing the subject to Kennedy or Kucinach isn't going to change the fact that as people who care about this country go, none can claim patriotism more than those who have put their life on the line to protect it, those who have watched their buddies blown to bits in order that you be allowed to wield rights for which are so preciously scarce in the world you have no idea.
3. If I were a believer I would not be wasting time on what is supposedly a "holy day" for my mythical deity to be debating a nonbeliever. Can't bake cookies or knit? Sounds kind of Killaryesque if you ask me. No wonder you could never land a man. With an attitude like that a brother would be crazy to marry you.
4. A little education is the correct term. Apparently wherever you went, they didn't have very high standards did they? Maybe you had a chance to get educated, but apparently you never took it. If your writing is indicative of the best a PhD from your institution could do, I'll pass thank you very much. So the only reason people in your family served in the military was to get something for themselves? Wow, how selfless and "Christian" of them.
5. Hitler was indeed a Christian. Take a look at this site:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
Here is an interesting tidbit:
On April 20, 1939, Archbishop Orsenigo celebrated Hitler's birthday. The celebrations, initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) became a tradition. Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send "warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany" and added with "fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars." - (Source: Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)
6. See, this is why I am sure that if you do have a PhD it must be from a nonaccredited institution. You cannot even grasp how erroneous it was to use Ron Simms as an example of atheists trampling the "rights" of Christians to proselytize in public institutions. You threw out the Simms memo. I take it your PhD never required you to defend a thesis because I find it very difficult to believe that some who would throw out a Ron Simms memo as an example of atheists oppression believers wouldn't be laughed out of their review committee meeting room. It is especially incoherent when one recognizes you KNEW Simms was a minister of some sort and certainly NOT an atheist.
"Too much anger, like you carry around is toxic. I am glad that I periodically blog here. I do not associate with angry, bitter people. Blogging reminds me why.",
You are the one who is bitter an angry. The fact you became an old maid is no one's fault but your own. If you weren't so cold and angry, perhaps a brother would've hooked up with you. Now instead, you are left with nothing but your computer screen and anger to keep you warm. You need to make up some god and pretend that "God loves you" even if no one else does in order to console yourself in your life of lonely desperation.
How sad.
Happy Hanukkah!
Happy Holidays!
You are simply a toxic waste dump of hate.
You said:
"As for your history of fornication, it is really irrelevant in this conversation so please keep it top yourself. Too bad your family never practiced the tenants of the faith they claimed to cherish so, if you are any indication."
I know that most libertarians and atheists at this site favor slavery. Many of my family had no choice. They were slaves. Oh, I guess you favor slavery just as the rest of the team does, right?
No, Atheist, Hitler was not a Christian.
You said:
"See, this is why I am sure that if you do have a PhD it must be from a nonaccredited institution. You cannot even grasp how erroneous it was to use Ron Simms as an example of atheists trampling the "rights" of Christians to proselytize in public institutions."
Gee, I know that Bruce G would be happy to know that. He goes to the same unaccredited institution. I guess women with an education make you feel more inferior than you already are. What a loser.
I never used Sims as an example of an atheist, the topic was Merry Christmas. Guess that kindrgarten education is catching up with you. You can still get a GED.
You said:
"The fact you became an old maid is no one's fault but your own. If you weren't so cold and angry, perhaps a brother would've hooked up with you. Now instead, you are left with nothing but your computer screen and anger to keep you warm. You need to make up some god and pretend that "God loves you" even if no one else does in order to console yourself in your life of lonely desperation."
I think you are projecting. I don't hook-up which is meaningless one night stands. Don't need to. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were hitting on me. I am doing just fine, thank you. Mot at all interested in losers, like you. Oh, you might want to check Craigs List or Match.com to get your lame a$$ hooked-up as you call it. E-harmony has higher standards and probably wouldn't take you.
I have never met an atheist that was happy. Most Christians, not all, have a peace that simply can't be bought.
Go ahead and keep hating, it will eventually destroy you. It must be terrible to be the toxic waste dump that you are. I have no time for losers like you, ever. I'm am off again. I got the gist of your loathsome drivel.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, I think you are loser, You are lucky God still values you and has a differnt opinion of you than me. Don't waste time replying with more of your hate. Gotta go.
Posted by: WVH on December 25, 2007 02:43 PMHoney, my family were slaves. We weren't house kept niggas like your kin that slept with the massa and got all uppity thinking now you are white because you let the massa bang ya.
Yes hon, Hitler was a Christian. Heck even the current pope was a nazi.
You said:
"Mot at all interested in losers, like you. "
Is that the best sentence you can construct? Like I said, I don't think you really have a PhD and if you really do, it should be revoked.
You said:
"I never used Sims as an example of an atheist, the topic was Merry Christmas. "
BS. You made the slanderous accusation that there were people who were sued for simply saying "Merry Christmas". I called BS and asked you to provide proof. You threw out the Simms memo. Not only can you NOT put together a cogent argument, you are a liar to boot.
You said:
"I have never met an atheist that was happy. Most Christians, not all, have a peace that simply can't be bought."
Well they were probably happy until they met YOU!
I have never met a Christian that wasn't a hypocrit, whether it be the pedophile preists sticking their boner in little boy's behinds or Ted Haggard doing crack with gay hookers.
I guess you are right about one thing though, those priests banging their 13 yr old alter boys are getting a "piece" that cannot be bought.
You said:
"MERRY CHRISTMAS, I think you are loser,..."
Ah there we go. The true spirit of Christmas from yet another hypocrit. Didn't take long for you to show your true stripes did it?
Happy Holidays hon!
"I have no time for losers like you, ever."
Yet you keep coming back and back and back. Yet antoher lie in your long history of lies.
It is all about Spike Lees' "School Days." Character as described by Dr. King comes not from color of the skin, or class, or money. It comes from character.
So this is what it is about:
"Honey, my family were slaves. We weren't house kept niggas like your kin that slept with the massa and got all uppity thinking now you are white because you let the massa bang ya."
You can't stand anyone that might have had a better life than you. No dude, I do not think that I am white. I don't think anyone is better or lesser because of what they have or don't have. True character comes from within and involves generosity of spirit, an ability to be grateful and give thanks. Most of all, true character involves the ability to love others as they are. You just think you are inferior and because you think that way, you are.
Guess what, I am not perfect and never claimed to be perfect or God. Good for you that I am not God and He is. I think you are a mean, hate-filled bigot, uneducated loser. Guess what, God loves you whether you hate or are hate filled or spew venom. That is the difference between me and God.
Me, I'm glad we finally got that Spike Lee thing out in the open. Now, you can live in the sewer you created for yourself. God, on the other hand, will still welcome you with open arms. God Bless You. You certainly need it, you hate filled jerk.
Oh by the way, if the hate gets too much to handle, the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association has a hotline: 1-877-2GRAHAM (1-877-247-2426)--24 hours a day, seven days a week. Or call our local phone number, (704) 401-2432, between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday.
If you are so convinced that you have done all the research you need to come to your conclusion that religion is evil and Christians are evil. It wouldn't hurt to contact them. Just more arguments against, the evil, don't you think?
This is a fairly non-demoniation ministry. What have you got to lose, unless your mind is so totally closed.
Remember God loves you. Me, I'd kick your lame a$$. MERRY CHRISTMAS.
"I think you are a mean, hate-filled bigot, uneducated loser."
There you go spreading holiday cheer again. Way to go Christian. Is that what jesus would say?
I thought you didn't have time for me. Could it be in your lonely little existence as a lonely old maid whom no one ever wanted to marry, that even being shown to be the hypocrite you are is better than being ignored?
Keep on typing hon. Your hate filled invectives say more about your Christianity than ANYTHING I could ever write.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
Posted by: Atheist on December 25, 2007 06:05 PMInstead of calling Jenny, call Billy. Your opinion of me, your opinion will never count. Those opinions that I care about, care about me. Too bad you don't have anyone who loves you. Guess there is a market for "women venting hate" as you phrase it. Remember, I am on the Potter's Wheel and am a sinner saved by Grace, so I can say bye to the hate-filled jerk who wouldn't follow a lead because he is too stupid to seek help. Call Billy, you need the help. I guess this thread is closed.
Posted by: WVH on December 25, 2007 06:20 PMYou keep on saying you gotta go, but you got nowhere to go. How sad.
"so I can say bye to the hate-filled jerk..."
Ah yes, just another example of Christian love. Is that what Jesus would say? Tsk.
How sad is it that you are filled with so much hate. Even more sad is the fact that you apparently have nothing better to do on Christmas, than spew hate. The day is just anither day to me, but SUPPOSEDLY you are to cherish it. Nice how you show your appreciation of your diety by venting hate at others.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?id=1684
It shows an angel asking God what to do about the fact that Huckabee and Romney are claiming endorsements by God. God replies: "Well, THAT's presumptuous. Let's surprise 'em and turn out the Catholics for Ron Paul."
Makes me wish there really were a god! :)
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on December 26, 2007 11:13 AM