December 05, 2007
Lurking Behind the Scenes...
Beyond the actual words of today's Seattle Times editorial on Iran, one gets the feeling from its argument - and others of like mind - that the author honestly thinks against all logic that a number of people in the federal government really actually want to go to war with Iran. Or maybe, you know, someone thought a Israel-hating and terrorist-sponsoring Iran might not be such a productive influence in the Middle East with nukes at their fingertips.
People can ultimately disagree on such issues, though it seems clear that even the NIE in question says Iran had a covert nuclear weapons program, has a record of hiding it from the international community (in violation of the Non-Proliferation Treaty), and retains not only much of the capacity for a program, but the interest in restarting it too. In addition, since the NIE also acknowledges it was diplomacy and threat of financial sanctions that supposedly deterred Iran in this case, why shouldn't we continue that same current course to deter Iran's expressed interest in the future?
P.S. The Everett Herald has the same, "good, they can't try to take us to war again" subtext.
Posted by Eric Earling at December 05, 2007
07:34 AM | Email This
1. A little more perspective on this NIE from NRO: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDA2OWMzNjEyMzg5Y2Q4ZjRhOWU4OWY1MTA2NmRhM2Q=
2. You dont have to be a partisan of either flavor to realize that this is the same CIA that once told us that Saddam had WMD's and was seeking yellow cake uranium.
Of course the libs are so giddy over this that they conveniently fail to remember such an inconvenient fact.
3. I've been hearing about the Middle East and their troubles my entire life, and I'm sick and tired of it. We've been sitting in Korea for over half a century because there are some boneheads in North Korea. We've got troops in Europe for a war with the former Soviet Union that never happened. We need to close down these "road shows" and mind our own business.
Israel is strong enough to defend themsleves. The oil-producing coutnries need to sell oil because there's no revenues in not selling oil. It's time for South Korea, Japan, Russia and China to pick up responsibility for that idiot in North Korea.
I've had enough of this meddling in foreign affairs, particularly when it's not appreciated by our so-called friends and allies in Europe and the West or even the people we're trying to "save."
4. Three things come to mind immediately:
1. We were to discount fauly intelligence completely, and blame Bush for believing it prior and up to this report. Now we are to believe the intelligence completely, and blame Bush for it. Dems need to make up their minds.
2. If Iran's nuclear program is so above-board, why is it not also above ground? Why is it hidden?
3. If Iran does not now or does not plan to have the capacity to wipe Israel off the map, why is it threatening to do so?
5. Oh yeah - we should also cancel our membership in the UN. They don't have our best interests at heart. No hard feeling - we just should leave it.
6. Yeah, what kat said. Also, what #5 said.
Intelligence experts are taking the NIE report with a grain of salt. So should we all. I would tend to trust the Mossad who have a vested interest in getting the proper intelligence.
I am more than a little uneasy with Bush and Rice conversion lately. There is something going on we aren't hearing about and won't hear about. There is a reason more than sending 30k troops to Iraq for a surge that violence in Iraq is decreasing.
I also heard Annapolis was billed as the peace conference of the Arabs, except Iran. Seems there is conjecture (Ed Koch) the other Arab dictators are afraid of Iran intentions.
Something is going on here. Arlington was a failure but did anyone think it wouldn't be?
7. #5 PI
Oh yeah - we should also cancel our membership in the UN. They don't have our best interests at heart. No hard feeling - we just should leave it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your damn right, get us out of the UN now.
We pay the most to the UN and get zero from them.
8. Correction on last sentence and apologies to pudge. It was supposed to read Annapolis and not Arlington. Many apologies to pudge.
9. The left blames the right for all their own tactics, such as using fear. Fear of war, fear of intolerance, fear of planetary destructions, fear of universal destruction.
The left blames Bush for listening to the pre-war intelligence stating Saddam had WMD, now they want to condemn him for not listening to the NIE report saying Iran is only talking like they are pursuing nukes. Should we believe our own flawed Intelligence community when a world leader claims otherwise, and the consequences of those claims are so great?
There is no consistency from the left, only evidence that they will use whatever info they have on any given day to attack their opposition, even if it means arguing from all sides of any given issue when it suits their agenda.
10. If we wanted a war for oil, we'd invade ANWR.
However if Iran wanted to control more oil- who would they invade?
11. Lack of logic on the left? What's new? It's just more Bush derangment.
The left can't imagine anything really evil exists outside of their politically correct, multicultural, diverse, feeling-oriented world.
12. PI, I agree with you on the UN. As far as persuing a Isolationist strategy, we tried that during WWII and you see how far that got us. The world is too small for us to sit back and think that two oceans will keep us safe. If we don't take the fight to them, they're going to take the fight to us. And if you believe UBL that he wouldn't have attacked us on 9/11 if we didn't have bases in Saudi Arabi then, well, I weep.
And as far as "them" not wanting us there. Sure, there are a few that want us out but every Iraqi, German, Korean, etc., etc. I've ever talked to likes us there keeping them safe.
13. The NIE was written by three ex-State Department (read Bush-hostile) bureaucrats, who have an obvious agenda. The "estimate" ignores the actual evidence. Nobody should believe a word of it, except, of course, the enemy within who has been working very hard to bring down our current administration.
14. It should be duely noted that the NIE was put together by three state department clinonistas. I guess its all part of the clintoon shadow gov. I wouldn't believe a whole lot coming from either the state dept or CIA....too many clintonistas in both of them. They will do anything to weaken this administration.....regardless of how much it harms this great Republic.
15. You guys are funny with your "Clinonistas," "Clintoon Shadow gov." and Bush Hostiles.
If only my fellow conservatives could calm down and stop being so paranoid, I think we might actually get something done right for a change rather than name calling and starting useless wars that cost too much money (not at all fiscally conservative). It makes me angry to think this is what this party has come to.
16. Huh? A guy in sweden commenting on our politics? A guy in sweden ignoring past histories of our country?
And Pat, the report was written by three State Department people and those people are typically of the liberal bent.
17. Saying the truth does not make one paranoid. It is a matter of fact the clinton embeded his loyalists at all levels of gov by giving them civil service status. Where do you think all these leaks come from?......I doubt very much that this current level of a shadow gov happened before and I have been around a long, long time. Carter and Clinton are a disgrace flying around the world on our dime, dissing this country time and time again. I think its time we tax payers demand that our gov quit funding ex presidents activities exept when on official business as stated by the sitting president. Think of how many millions will be saved. As for useless wars, this country has been at war with militant moselms since the 1800's. Check out what Jefferson did to the "barbary" priates (moslems) who pirated our commercial ships. Lets take the gloves off and do the job right....defeat these terrorists once and for all....it will take a lot shorter time if we isolate all muslims from western contact and let them kill each other.T Ghe same goes for the palis.....all they want is the destruction of Israel....we need to quit giving them our hard earned tax money so they can kill Israelis. Remember, strenght and power is what moslems understand. Lets lock and load.
18. I am not in Sweden. I lived there once for a period of seven months. I was born and raised in the US. I have studied our history extensively and there is no more egregious example of over spending during war time than under Bush. This point cannot be argued, it is fact. It simply has not been an efficient operation. Being fiscally conservative means spending US tax dollars prudently, and it has been more than confirmed that Iraq has turned into a colossal waste of money and lives.
That said, I would wholeheartedly agree with the State Department comment. That situation bothers me a great deal.
19. Patriot: Remember, we were attcked 9/11......if we want victory, we have to keep taking the battle to the enemy. Being passive only invites destruction on our shores. I do agree that spending tax payer money wisely is a trait of good conservative vaules, but war is war. There are many other areas in gov that can be cut or eliminated with little or no loss of value at all. That is one thing our current pres could have done a better job off. The sate dept is full of whinners and cry babies who would rather spend time socialising with dictators rather than represent our national interest to the rest of the world. We'd be better off by firing them all and start from scratch....no more ivy leaguers in the state dept at all.....
20. http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2007/12/nie_an_abrupt_aboutface.asp
Above article debunks the latest NIE report. It talks about how the author recently said just about the opposite about four months ago.
21. In judging the credibility of intelligence assessments on Iran�s nuclear program, I give greater credence to the Israeli view than to any NIE position paper. Not only do the Israelis face a much more immediate (indeed potentially mortal) threat if Iran does go nuclear, they also have much better capability than we do for getting reliable information. A number of Israelis were either born in Iran before 1948 or come from families who had lived there for centuries. They speak the language and understand the culture as few Americans would. Knowing the past history of Israeli intelligence, they probably have resources far beyond what is available to us. If they are skeptical of the new NIE assessment, I am sure they have good reason.
22. Unless Israel attacks Iran, this NIE report virtually ensures that Iran will get the bomb. If Bush ever had a plan to attack Iran that has now been vaporized. He would never get any support in Congress now. And it is doubtful that the next President would even try.
Our intelligence services have retrogressed to pre 9-11 levels of wishful thinking and willful blindness.
23. Amen to yael@21 -- we're still paying the price for decimating our human intelligence services (though there was some justification for reining in clandestine operations). "National technical means" cannot adequately replace human assets on the ground in-theater in many cases.
24. I will trust the intel from the MOSAD before I'll trust ours. Our country can thank Carter and his henchman Stansfield Turner for decimating our humint.....as well as the Church Committee for handcuffing our humint ops. Typical of the dems to harm our great Republic, not only in the past but right now as well. These vile, evil creatures will have to be dealt with soon, by any means necessary or we will pay a very heavy price for our inaction in the future.
25. Allen
Remember the Dem/Lib party has always had a close love affair with Lenin & Stalin.
Heck we have a statue of Lenin right here.
26. Beaurucratic infighting, correct or incorrect the NIE is prety much irrelivant to the question.
We ought to have take more action against Iran prety much anytime since 1979.
We could have done anything from given meaningful support to anti-govt groups, done some large scale Voice of America work or simply had Seventh Corps take a hard right turn in 1991.
But once again we leave a problem in place for little or no reasons and figure to deal with it later.
I wonder If / how bad we will get bit now?