November 29, 2007
State Income Tax

A blow-by-blow of public testimony at a committee hearing is a punishment too heinous to inflict upon civilized humans. Other than Eyman's group, the Evergreen Freedom Foundation and the Washington Policy Center, most of the testimony has been against SB 6177/I-747. No surprise given the public entities and interest groups whose fingers are in the pie.

A curious circumstance has been the number of codewords which have been dropped today. "Reforming the property tax", the current tax system is too "regressive", the state needs a more "fair" tax. The current system hurts the poor and middle class. The government needs a tax system which generates a reliable income.

It all appears to be a wink, wink; nod, nod towards working in the next legislative session on creating a new means to generate tax revenue.

Can anyone say state income tax?

Posted by DonWard at November 29, 2007 12:01 PM | Email This
Comments
1. NO! And HONK NO!

Posted by: Michele on November 29, 2007 12:21 PM
2. In an election year? I highly doubt it! Income tax passes...within about 3 days, an initiative is filed. Initiative gets more than enough signatures in about a month. The initiative brings out conservatives in massive numbers. Initiative passes with 65%.

Even democrats couldn't be that stupid, could they?

Posted by: drw on November 29, 2007 12:30 PM
3. Replace our absurdly high sales tax with a progressive income tax and I might be on board. Sales taxes do hurt the folks who can least afford them most (i.e. people who have to spend almost all of their income to survive).

Now, just adding an income tax on top of our sales taxes is a recipe for economic disaster. The skilled workers driving our hot local economy are mobile. Tax them like they're in New York or California and don't be surprised if they just move to New York or California.

Posted by: replace the sales tax on November 29, 2007 12:32 PM
4. A net profits tax on businesses.

Posted by: hooters on November 29, 2007 12:41 PM
5. The reality is that WA politics and ideology is dominated by Progressive elitists. That's not to say there are not a lot of good conservative people here, there are, but those calling the shots are largely predisposed to socialism, collectivism, etc.

As such, they want to be more like other states that have limited the freedom of their citizens more than WA, and tax them at a much higher rate, lowering their quality of life, and opportunity to create wealth with more dispensable income.

Thus, the means to creating an ever larger government with all of the same kinds of largess as say, California, is to also create the same number and type of tax revenue streams as California.

But what will be the result? In California, it's very difficult if not impossible to get by without two incomes. Parents who value having one stay at home parent will have to have quite a large income from the other parent, or take extreme measures such as two or three hour commutes, in order to have the same quality of life that many Washingtonians now enjoy. Service costs will rise for all, and it will be much harder to start new small businesses, while simultaneously bearing the enormously high monthly expense costs.

Reject Progressive government expansion here in WA. Think different. There's no reason we have to have a large and ever growing government here, just because other states have made those poor choices. It's assumed that more tax revenue will only lead to good things. But why then do we pay around $10K per year per student for public schools, and not get the same consistent high level top-notch students as private schools that actually cost less per year per student? And the list goes on.

If we suckle up to the teat of government, we may get some benefits, but it will be at a far greater cost to us all, than if we had fended for those needs privately, and asked our government for better stewardship of our existing revenue.

WA is at a crossroads. Hopefully she will choose the path of her forefathers who were independent and resourceful pioneers, and not the path of a relatively few elitist Progressives obsessed with 19th century German collectivism.

Posted by: Jeff B. on November 29, 2007 12:42 PM
6. Jeff B--
You are right on.
I have watched the Leftist Approach of making every issue emotional.....like "For the Children" to justify tax increases. I have watched City's & County's throughout Washington always dredge up the most important things to a community like Parks, Pools & Libraries and hold them hostage to tax increases.
In the meantime, where the money actually goes is into an ever bloated bureaucracy where our hard-earned tax dollars are absorbed by the "Bureaucratic Blob"
Remember the movie "The Blob"??
It is pervasive throughout much of Washington...not just the State but also local governments.
NO TAX INCREASE==WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE

In the very same Marxist Kommunity of Pt. Townsend that rushed like glutons to take Banked Tax Capacity.....The Pt. Townsend School District is now proposing a $30 million Capital Improvement Bond to build new schools in a Kommunity that has had declining enrollment 9 straight years.
It's outrageous.
The ONLY answer is to take away the money.
It shouldn't have to be that way.
But that is what it has come down to.
The Bureaucratic Blob's appetite for tax dollars is NEVER satisfied.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 29, 2007 12:53 PM
7. California has property taxes, sales taxes and state income taxes. Legislators there managed to spend all of them and still want more.

The regressives who want "progressive" income taxes just want to go on a social services spending spree.

Posted by: John425 on November 29, 2007 12:58 PM
8. Election year- expect Dems to dress themselves up as fiscal conservatives.

Posted by: Andy on November 29, 2007 01:03 PM
9. Yeah, I love that "For the Children" baloney. In the next breath they are demanding the right to wholesale slaughter of the unborn.

I don't buy that "give us a state income tax and we will eliminate the sales tax" crap. Any implementation of a state income tax here in Washington would just be another tax that they would raise...and raise...and raise...and raise.

Posted by: NW Denizen on November 29, 2007 01:07 PM
10. To "Replace the salestax" -

Even with an income tax, I doubt they would get rid of the sales tax because o good protion of the sales tax goes into the local county/city coffers and they are not going to give up any tax money without a fight...

Posted by: rbb on November 29, 2007 01:15 PM
11. They'd probably pass the state income tax bill with the emergency clause so that it couldn't be repealed via initiative.

Posted by: blindman on November 29, 2007 01:20 PM
12. OT

Where is Stefan?

Posted by: Good Captain on November 29, 2007 01:22 PM
13. California is a good example of where we are going because unfortunately too many liberal Californians ruined that state and have been moving up here.

On a different note, it would be interesting to see the convoluted state income tax system that these jokers come up with. Can you imagine how screwed up it would be and the exemptions, deductions, and other special interest perks?

Posted by: danno on November 29, 2007 01:32 PM
14. I know that replacing the sales tax will never happen here. I'm just saying that I'd support an income tax to replace the sales tax - but only to replace the sales tax.

Adding an income tax to the current taxes is a terrible idea.

Posted by: replace the sales tax on November 29, 2007 01:33 PM
15. Adding an income tax to the current taxes is a terrible idea.

And that's exactly what the Progressives want. This will be a classic bait and switch. They will say that they want to trade the Sales tax for an Income tax. And then we'll just end up with both. That's why we must always fight government increase.

The steady state of government budgets is: spent. And the steady state of government is: growing.

It's either resist letting them have it in the first place, or suffer from then on.

Posted by: Jeff B. on November 29, 2007 01:40 PM
16. If any of you think they will have just an income only, I'd like to sell you a (*****) don't be fooled by this line of BS on taxes. I came from San diego CA and let me say, if it drives, walks, dies, or earns one penny THEY will tax it.
Plus they still want more.
Just look at LA if you think taxes will fit it all.

Don't do it folks!

Posted by: Army Medic/ Vet on November 29, 2007 01:43 PM
17. replace: An income tax discourages savings AND work. A sales tax does not. You can choose how much you're willing to spend on an item and thus adjust how much sales tax you will pay. An income tax does not. It's just gone, period. Bad idea.

Posted by: Michele on November 29, 2007 01:50 PM
18. Hmmmm, I wonder if Gov. Gregoire will win by as great a margin as Mrs Clinton next time around...yes, I think so!
This blog will be scathing hot this time next year! Haha

Posted by: Duffman on November 29, 2007 01:53 PM
19. Two words: DINO ROSSI

Get out the word. 2008 is an election year and WE NEED TO SEND A MESSAGE LIKE NEVER BEFORE.

Everyone wanted to teach the republicans a lesson with the 2006 election by voting for the democrats. You get what you vote for. Now we are staring at property taxes that will force many of us to relinquish our property because of all of those tax loving democrats, regardless of what Mr. Pope may think. I personally voted republican because I saw this catastrophe coming.

And now, to make matters worse, we have to fight against the State Supreme Court on top of everything else. I thought Judges were supposed to interpret the law, not interpret my vote.

I-747 was written by Jim Johnson, who sits on the Washington State Supreme Court. He wrote a good law, and an alcoholic judge turned around and dismissed it as unconstitutional, not because of it's wording, but because she didn't think WE understood what we were reading. It's not her place to determine what WE understand. Now, conveniently, she's retiring. Well, we need to retire a few more judges, not to mention most of the Washington state congress and it goes without saying the Gregoire has overstayed her welcome.

Posted by: Cathy on November 29, 2007 02:11 PM
20. Philadephia and PA have been run by the Dems for awhile now.

They have
Fed Income tax
State Income tax
City(Phila) Income tax
Sales tax

Cue music:

"...Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman....."

Posted by: Sam Adams on November 29, 2007 02:11 PM
21. Ms. Gregoierforhire simplified tax plan...How much did you earn this year...send it to us...we know how to spend your money better than you do!

Posted by: Pacific Grove Phlash on November 29, 2007 02:14 PM
22. Actually, the Democrat's plan for "tax reform" has already been put on the table for all to see -- Senate Bill 5150. What does it do?

NEW GRADUATED STATE INCOME TAX: For married couples, 2.2% of the first $49,900, then 3.5% up to $120,650, and 6% over that. For singles, the 6% rate starts at $60,325. Personal exemption of $2,950. Tax credits for B&O and utility tax paid. Standard deduction of up to $10,000 for married couples, $5,000 for singles. Exemption and standard deduction are indexed for inflation, but not the tax brackets. Mandatory employer tax withholding.

REDUCES THE STATE PORTION OF THE SALES TAX from 6.5% to 3.5%. Local sales taxes remain intact.

ELIMINATES THE STATE PORTION OF THE PROPERTY TAX. That's $3.60 per $1000. The aggregate "regular" property tax rate is reduced from $10 per $1000 to $6.40 per $1000. Voter-approved levies above that remain intact.


Posted by: Toby Nixon on November 29, 2007 02:56 PM
23. Check out Postman, he is reporting that the Dems are taking it in the shorts again. The PDC recommends dropping the Rossi complaint filed by the WA State Democrats about when he became a candidate for Governor.

Posted by: Huh? on November 29, 2007 03:40 PM
24. No income tax in the State of Washington! Never, never, ever!

It's just a scam to build an even more intrusive, money-grubbing, inefficient government. This one's worth armed intervention to prevent.

Posted by: Politically Incorrect on November 29, 2007 03:41 PM
25. Well, I wish I hadn't just read that! Seems like we're dinged every time we turn around. I think I need aspirin ...

Posted by: Peggy U on November 29, 2007 03:53 PM
26. I thought I read somewhere that the WA state Constitution specifically outlaws the income tax.

The only way the dumbocruds can get such a change is through a constitutional amendment.

Posted by: MrConservative on November 29, 2007 04:02 PM
27. Here is some good news for limited government: In Massachusets (also known as taxachusetts) they have an income tax. In 2002, a couple of Libertarians, Carla Howell and Michael Cloud, got an initiative on the ballott to repeal the state income tax. They had no funding, were massively outspent by the unions and big government liberal opposition, and were almost shut out of the mainstream media.

But their initiative got 45% of the vote!

So they have refined their ballott measure, and I just found out this week that they just got over 100,000 signatures, a challenge-proof number, to put a new initiaitive on the ballott!

This time, they will win. They have more funding, they have a better law, and the media can not ignore them this time!

I think when this measure passes in MA, we in WA will be able to look at the progressives who want to pass a state income tax here and say one word:

Eyeman.

We Libertarians love you, Tim! You are a better defender of our lives, liberty and property than the government ever could be. I wish I could send 75% of my tax bill to you instead.

Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on November 29, 2007 04:13 PM
28. Duffman, I'm surprised you came back after ducking my question. You should answer it for real now.

Posted by: Michele on November 29, 2007 04:14 PM
29. Speaking of horrific political battles, download the audio I just sent to CNN. Click my name.

Jim

Posted by: Jim on November 29, 2007 05:22 PM
30. Property values go up and up and up and the
bastards automatically collect more revenue.
The economic pie gets bigger every year and their
revenue automatically increases. All 4000 levies
that have passed are still being collected. All
4000 gas tax increases to "fix the roads" are still being collected. Why on God's green earth
(He was the first to go green) do they continue
to need a bigger percentage on everything?
They already get it. We need to elect some new
faces all across the board. NO INCUMBENTS.

Posted by: mark on November 29, 2007 05:52 PM
31. I am a retired Alaskan who likes to come and winter in the Everett area. We are considering purchasing a home there to spend six months a year, or maybe more later. If you institute an income tax we are going to cross you off the list and winter in Nevada. I am not going to take a chance on having to pay an income tax on a retirement earned solely in a different state. I also don't like the election BS of the 2004 election in King County. I think you should make King County certify their results, and then let the rest of the counties tally and certify. This might prevent the cheating.

Posted by: Chilly on November 29, 2007 05:58 PM
32. With the exception of #22 Toby Nixon, KCGOP and WSRP aren't saying boo on their websites

Thank god for Tim Eyman, EFF, and WPC working to protect the taxpayers from the Christine and the State employees Union

Hey Hey
Ho Ho
Tax and Spend have got to go

Posted by: KC Dems on November 29, 2007 06:11 PM
33. #28 Michele, I'm sorry thought I did answer it if you care to re-ask, I'll do my best. Sorry.

Posted by: Duffman on November 29, 2007 06:12 PM
34. We're with Chilly on this one. If a state income tax passes, we'll be in Nevada so fast it will make your head swim. We'll never willingly pay a state income tax; the federal is bad enough as it is. And, I venture to say, there will be lots more like us who don't want their taxes raised any more.

We believe that states, counties & cities should be able to get along with the current taxes & fees which are already too high. Those taxing entities already have too much power to raise taxes willy-nilly; they need to practice better budget control, leaner administration & cut programs that don't produce results.

The Democrats in Olympia are too willing to pass another tax or increase a current one without taking into account other methods to achieve the same ends, such as more privatization, more pay-as-you-go, & fewer state employees. We're really tired of the government at all levels using our taxes to achieve social goals that we don't necessarily support. If something is so wonderful, the users should be willing to support it without additional taxes from the rest of us.

Posted by: Clean House on November 29, 2007 07:36 PM
35. Let me try to regurgitate what I thought you asked. Would I support a students/teachers right to 'protest' a cause more lending itself to the right?
If that 'cause' was equatable to a 'war' where folks are losing their lives for no good reason, under the auspicis of 'lies' - YES. Does that answer your question.

Posted by: Duffman on November 29, 2007 07:40 PM
36. Wow, Duffman the self-proclaimed dead left Democrat would not have a problem paying a teacher to walk out of work and protest abortions down at the clinic...I gotta call BS on that one.

Posted by: Huh? on November 29, 2007 07:59 PM
37. Duffman got it wrong. teachers, who are under contract to stay and teach, have no business setting this kind of example to the kids. They were obligated to stay until school was out. After that, they can go wherever they please, be it a pro-life demonstration or this "we-hate-Bush" communist-sponsored rally (stupid is not illegal). Duffman's approach teaches the kids that obligation to others doesn't matter. If it feels good, do it. Who cares what we are obligated to stay around for? The kids have just learned that they can do what they want. Imagine one of them grows up to be a surgeon, has patients scheduled that day, but trots off just as the patient is sedated and says "Sorry, but I gotta go to a communist-sponsored rally. i don't really care what you need. If I want to leave, I'm going to leave. obligations don't matter when I'm feeling so self-righteous."
Oh. So. Wrong.

Posted by: Michele on November 29, 2007 08:47 PM
38. This 'war' is unique...period. At least in Viet Nam we had a 'treaty'. Dems should have started the impeachment process long ago. Kids today should learn that committing a country to war under false pretenses is so much bigger than skipping a class to protest. Not even close on scale or importance. To 'blindly' go-along without 'peacefully' voicing your opinion is not what our educational process s/be about in my opinion. We must agree to disagree on this issue; this is a 'no-brainer' and should sink in even the most dense conservative's cranium. [But, I'm not surprised it doesn't].
I can't wait to read your posting when Mrs Clinton takes over. That will be some kind of 're-awakening' for you'all. Haha...IT'S C-O-M-I-N-G !!!

Posted by: Duffman on November 29, 2007 08:56 PM
39. Toby @22

I can't say that I trust the wisdom of Sammy Hagar, but when Van Halen released the 5150 album in 1986, they told their concert audiences that 5150 was a police code for criminally insane. If true, it fits the democrats' bill.

Posted by: Anthony on November 29, 2007 09:07 PM
40. Hey Duffman try staying on topic, you would approve of a teacher leaving class without prior consent of the administration to go protest abortions at a clinic (taking the kiddies along becaue its the right thing to do) YES or NO this is a no-brainer if you are not a hypocrite.

Posted by: Huh? on November 29, 2007 09:17 PM
41. Toby @22,

This bill isn't in final form yet - there doesn't appear to be an emergency clause - how can that be?

Posted by: SouthernRoots on November 29, 2007 09:43 PM
42. Haven't read all posts thoroughly so may have missed this point if someone has already stated it -- THE D__MN LOOTERY >> was sold as -- school funding -- within a couple years -- it all vaporized into the (g)urinal fund -- I have largely supported it because it has helped stave off the income tax - which the A-holes float every few years and was beaten back several times back in the seventies.

Posted by: Bill on November 29, 2007 10:32 PM
43. Haven't read all posts thoroughly so may have missed this point if someone has already stated it -- THE D__MN LOOTERY >> was sold as -- school funding -- within a couple years -- it all vaporized into the (g)urinal fund -- I have largely supported it because it has helped stave off the income tax - which the A-holes float every few years and was beaten back several times back in the seventies.

Posted by: Bill on November 29, 2007 10:33 PM
44. Please Please try to pass an Income tax this election. Please Please!

Go Rossi!

Posted by: gs on November 29, 2007 11:07 PM
45. look at the history of the income tax in New Jersey, it wasn't by the legislature is was done by fiat of a judge(said that property tax to fund schools was unfair). look like it could be coming to your state next.

Posted by: Ron K on November 30, 2007 12:07 AM
46. #40: I decide the topic - feel perfectly free to ignore; I don't equate the two.

Posted by: Duffman on November 30, 2007 07:25 AM
47. Hypocrite it is then...afterall you are the decider.

Posted by: Huh? on November 30, 2007 07:58 AM
48. ..but nice try, anyway. Haha

Posted by: Duffman on November 30, 2007 08:18 AM
49. Let it be written, Duff the Decider, Hypocrite, Democrat. Buh-Bye

Posted by: Huh? on November 30, 2007 08:34 AM
50. And, let it also be written that Huh? is a purveyor of generalized 'labels'!

Posted by: Duffman on November 30, 2007 08:45 AM
51. State Income Tax NO WAY! If the dems decide to go forward on this, it might be time for another tea party.

Posted by: Freedoms Guardian on November 30, 2007 08:48 AM
52. dufu, it is time. Your name has grown by a consonant. You can now call yourself dufus.

At least admit you are a hypocrite.

Posted by: swatter on November 30, 2007 10:11 AM
53. it will never happen, but if they revoked the B&O tax i think it would be fair. with the sales tax system, every single biz statewide large or small has to act as an individual state tax collection agency with every cotton pickin' sale made.

Posted by: chaz on December 2, 2007 08:14 PM
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