A while back I mentioned a fun little incident involving a YouTube video by Sound Politics commenter, pudge. It seems the blizzard of emails from Ron Paul's supporters inspired some more musical comedy from this bearded guitar player:
Now, this brings me to where I really need some reader input. I've used a couple different monikers to describe Ron Paul's motley collection of supporters. For the sake of consistency I'd like to just pick one and go with it for future posts mentioning these folks (posts which I don't plan to make frequent, by the way).
Please choose among the following options and vote in the comments:
1) Paulites - my original descriptor of choice.
2) Paultards - the outgrowth of the war waged by Wonkette and RedState against the fearsome Internet warriors in Ron Paul's, uh, coalition.
3) Ron-ulans - the creation of Jim Geraghty at the Campaign Spot, as far as I can tell.
So, vote away. I'll let this run for a few days then use whatever label of choice readers select.
Posted by Eric Earling at November 22, 2007 10:22 AM | Email ThisThe Democrats and Republicans are, in the words of a friend of mine, "different sides of the same coin."
Posted by: Politically Incorrect on November 22, 2007 10:32 AMWell, George Will is a Ron Paul supporter. I'm one too. Are you happy to call us retarded? I assume you are above that kind of thing. Please don't prove me wrong.
The others aren't too objectionable to me. Though I don't get the connection to "Romulans" in "Ron-ulans." I'd guess that Ron Paul supporters might tend to be more interested in science fiction than the rest of the population, but the Romulans are very war-like, and Ron Paul supporters want to bring the troops home. Doesn't fit.
I won't make up any names for McCain, Romney or Giuliani supporters. Not my style. I value civiltiy, rational argument, and Ron Paul.
The more you make up names, the more I will suspect that you lack rational responses to our positions. Personal attacks only make the attackers look bad.
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on November 22, 2007 10:59 AMWhen your national socialist candidate starts responding to direct questions asked him by Jewish journalists and comes clean about support from Duke, Nazis, and Christian Identity groups (supremecists) maybe folks will stop labeling him, correctly, I might add. Are you applying for the Goebels role in his government?
Posted by: WVH on November 22, 2007 11:05 AMYour point is excellent. Every time I see a poll in which Ron Paul is excluded and people like Tancredo is included, it sure looks like an intentional act of censorship to me.
You can't trust the mainstream media. Thank you!
Ragnar, your "Paulbearers" personal attack is ad hominem. We could tell even before you winked at us. ;)
As long as we Ron Paul supporters keep it positive, and let our opponents use the personal attacks, it will just make us look better.
By the way, his total fundraising for the fourth quarter is over $9 Million. Kinda hard to dismiss us as a tiny minority anymore.
Yay, Ron Paul! Hope for America.
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on November 22, 2007 11:43 AMI am an indie and I voted for Nader the last two elections because it was the only way that I could protest, we don't have the none of the above option. Still, our government is built upon respect for the laws and acceptance of the Constitutional system. Precedent, stare decisis, and judicial review are key principles. That means that some decisions rendered are not popular, but if they are made in a constitutional context, they are the law. I believe that Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided, but it is the law and must be accepted until overturned by the legitimate Consitutional process. Following a despot does not improve the lives of the many, no matter how attractive their message may seem. Hitler ultimately made the lives of those in Germany and the rest of the world worse. Chavez and Mugabe will ultimately kill their repective countries and many of their citizens. There are ways of protesting within the system without following Hitler lite.
Posted by: WVH on November 22, 2007 11:50 AM1. Is Paul going to respond to Jewish journalists?
2. Regarding fundraising, is that real money in the campaign or a shell game like a certain senate campaign?
Guess you are trying out for the Goebbels position, for those yungins or those who haven't read history:
Paul Joseph Goebbels (German pronunciation: IPA: [ˈɡœbl̩s]; English generally IPA: /ˈɡɝbəlz/) (October 29, 1897 - May 1, 1945) was a German politician and Minister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda during the National Socialist regime from 1933 to 1945. He was one of Adolf Hitler's closest associates and most devout followers. Goebbels was known for his zealous, energetic oratory and virulent anti-Semitism.Paul Joseph Goebbels (German pronunciation: IPA: [ˈɡœbl̩s]; English generally IPA: /ˈɡɝbəlz/) (October 29, 1897 - May 1, 1945) was a German politician and Minister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda during the National Socialist regime from 1933 to 1945. He was one of Adolf Hitler's closest associates and most devout followers. Goebbels was known for his zealous, energetic oratory and virulent anti-Semitism....
After the Nazis seized power in 1933, he was appointed propaganda minister. One of his first acts was to order the burning of books by Jewish or anti-Nazi authors at Bebelplatz and he proceeded to gain full control of every outlet of information in Germany. Following his appointment, his attacks on German Jews became ever fiercer and culminated in the Kristallnacht in 1938, the first open and unrestrained pogrom unleashed by the Nazis."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels
Sig Heil
Posted by: WVH on November 22, 2007 12:00 PMYour boy is really shafting himself when he goes to these places.
He may not be a nut, but going on a nuts radio show doesn't help your cause!
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on November 22, 2007 12:21 PMIt's ALEX JONES, just incase you forgot.
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on November 22, 2007 12:24 PMThat's sounds good too. But he has more of a chance than RP.
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on November 22, 2007 12:30 PMPaulinators is a good suggestion for the reasons given in top post.
Posted by: Jeanette Doney on November 22, 2007 12:30 PMAs a take off on "nutbergers," (Or "nutburgers" for the efficianadoes) I'm all about Paulbergers."
Posted by: Hinton on November 22, 2007 12:34 PM
Pudge
Ian W.
Politically Incorrect
Jared
James
Maria
Ray L.
Jeanette D.
Proud Paulinteer
Jake
and all the Ron Paul supporters to follow!
There sure are a lot of us Ron Paul supporters out here!
They can call us names, but they can't ignore us anymore!
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on November 22, 2007 01:39 PM"He is the closest thing to a true blue Republican for perhaps 100 years. Thomas Jefferson would be among his supporters and probably Lincoln"
Now what exactly are the similar principles of both Jefferson and Lincoln embodied in Paul/Chavez/Mugabe's message?
Both Jefferson and Lincoln were accomplished debators and sparred with critics, so why hasn't Paul/Chavez/ Mugabe answered Medved's open letter, because he is Jewish, perhaps? Why hasn't he reponded to Lonestar? Does he get substanitial donations from Nazis, Duke supporters and Chritian Identity groups. So, what is it about Paul/Chavez/Mugabe that is similar to Jefferson and Lincoln?
Posted by: WVH on November 22, 2007 06:52 PMI've never called you a nut, but please answer this question. Why in the haeck does Ron Paul keep showing up at Alex jones radio show, when he is a total 911 NUT!
Please how in the heck does this guy help Ron Paul?
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on November 22, 2007 07:09 PMHe is not a leader of men,or a leader of a party.
He is Napolean with a guitar marching off to Waterloo.
How many more waterloo's can the R's let the far righters march them too.
Do the party a favor Pudge,join the American Idle tour.
You should be linking with Fiscal conservatives.
Instead of clashing with them you should be finding common ground.
Your creation of a three party race is destined to leave us all with Hilary Era,that will move us into high rises,and have us all pay 10 bucks for a cornish game hen to help pay for hillary care.
If only Pudge knew how to play the pipes he could make like the pied piper and have all the far righter follow him into the puget Sound.
Now that would be fun to watch on Youtube.
Paul/Chavez/Mugabe receives funding from Nazis, Duke supporters, Christian Identity folks AND Bill and Hill supporters through Soros and Peter Lewis of Progressive Insurance. But, you say, those are some very strange bedfellows - Hillary has a huge anybody but Hillary voter problem. So, they need to have some serious peel-off of republican voters. Can anyone say third party ala Perot.
Posted by: WVH on November 22, 2007 08:32 PMIf this radio show is as you say it is, then you may be right, it may not be in his interest to appear. One possibility is that when Ron Paul was being excluded from the mainstream media, the Alex Jones show was one of the few that would put him on the air, and now he feels a sense of debt to the show's producers. I know I think less of someone who forgets who the hometown friends are after making it big, no matter how odd the locals are. But this is all speculation on my part.
OK, I just went to the Alex Jones show website for the first time, and he does look like a serious conspiracy theorist. But I checked all of the show listings and did not find one in which Ron Paul appeared on the show in person. It is clear that Alex Jones backs Ron Paul, but I see no sign that Ron Paul endorses Alex Jones. Ron Paul can no more stop a conspiracy theorist form supporting him on a web site or radio show than Giuliani can. There are no links from Ron Paul's website to infowars.com or Alex Jones that I could find. I fail to see how this makes Ron Paul look bad. Guilt by association doesn't work.
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on November 22, 2007 09:03 PMRon-zis
Paul-zis
Or you could go skinhead.
Ron-head
Paul-head
As I have been playing around with them, I think I am leaning towards Paul-zis. It works on a number of different levels. Certainly they act like Nazi bullies on the web. It appears to be an association that really torques them off. It can also be pronounced in a very politically incorrect way, linking it to palsy. Certainly their frequent senseless postings are very reminiscent of spastic twitches.
My only concerns are that some folks may not get the name. It's not good if you have to explain it every time you use it. It also trivializes the use (and overuse) of the word Nazi. But the actual Nazis really are supporting RP.
So whaddya think gang? Paul-zis? Oh yeah, just ignore the Paulzis when replying. Don't feed the trolls.
Hairy
Posted by: Hairy Buddah on November 22, 2007 09:04 PMNow, that being said, goodness Bruce G. got over not addressing me in a New York minute.
Now, Bruce G. went to the Alex Jones show which shows that he is capable of follow-up. Bruce G. has Paul/Chavez/Mugabe responded to Michael Medved or Lonestar?
Does Paul/Chavez/Mugabe disavow support from Nazis, Duke supporters, and Christian Identity groups? Since you are capable of research, you ought to be able to answer those questions.
Oh, if anything happens to me, my estate will sue Bruce G. for disclosure of my name in a New York minute. I will continue to ask about the Nazi association every chance I get.
Posted by: WVH on November 22, 2007 09:28 PMCan't you here Pudge playing the flute.
Time to head towards the water.
I will hold the camera for the youtube segment.
1. I don't do Youtube, believe it or not Pudge is a better musician than me. His lyrics suck, but give a him point for trying.
2. We are coming at the same issue from different perspectives. Neither of us wants Hillary to win.
I want competition in education, you are a fiscal conservative, heck, for all I know you could support Paul/Chavez/Mugabe, but you don't want Hillary to win.
3. Paul/Chavez/Mugabe has Nazis supporters, Duke supporters and Chrisitan Identity supporters. Bruce G. either cannot provide a defense or will not provide a defense because they will lose support. I'm not kidding if anything happens to me, my estate will sue the hell out of Bruce G.
Still, look at Venezuela under Chavez or Zimbabwe under Mugabe. The Nazis will destroy a country and kill many people. Even if you think they might solve shortterm problems, longterm Nazis are no solution.
No, I will not be doing Youtube, due to Bruce G.'s generosity /s/ I am more public than I care to be.
Still, questions to Paul/Chavez/Mugabe, do you disavow Nazis, Duke supporters and the Christian identity movement. Bruce G said this:
" I fail to see how this makes Ron Paul look bad. Guilt by association doesn't work."
Wrong as always, people are known by the company they keep.
For example, driving through Eugene, OR last week, I saw a huge Ron Paul sign on the side of I-5. Also many large Ron Paul signs in prominent places in the North End of Tacoma. Since when are Eugene and North Tacoma libertarian hotbeds?
Many of Ron Paul's ideas are actually very good, but they come wrapped in a brown paper bag that has no political pizzazz. And worse, he has been linked to Alex Brown and other Truthers, several times. Anyone who is even remotely connected to 9/11 conspiracy nuts has no realistic chance of getting elected.
Ron Paul is a lot like the pudge ditty. Lots of fun, but just a YouTube song, with no chance of ever becoming a mainstream single.
Posted by: Jeff B. on November 22, 2007 10:01 PM(snip)
"Yes, Ron appears on the Alex Jones radio program. But you know who else talks to Alex Jones? People like Judge Anthony Napolitano. Guess who hosts Alex Jones? FOX's John Gibson and National Public Radio. Dr. Paul has said time and again that he does not believe 9/11 was an inside job. He does, however, think we should always question authority. When, by the way, were conservatives supposed to become trusting of big government?
Dr. Paul stands for freedom, peace, prosperity, and the protection of inalienable individual rights. He knows that liberty is the antidote for racism, anti-Semitism, and other small minded ideologies. Dr. Paul has focused all of his energy on winning the presidency so he can cut the size of government and protect the freedom of every American. Neither he nor his staff is going to waste time screening donors. If a handful of individuals with views anathema to Dr. Paul's send in checks, then they have wasted their money. I cannot profess to understand the motivations of Don Black as neither Dr. Paul nor I know who he is, but a simple Google search shows that his $500 contribution has netted him at least 88 news hits, including Charen's column. Perhaps a better explanation for his "contribution" is not support for Ron, but the attention he knew he would receive.
(snip)
Jesse Benton
Communications Director
Ron Paul 2008 PCC
Arlington, Va."
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTJmOWM2ZGQzNzAzOTQwYWJlMDg4YjJiMjE4MWRlZTY
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on November 22, 2007 10:07 PM1. Thank you for that response.
2. Did Paul/Mugabe/Chavez return the donation?
3. Now, post the response to Michael Medved's open letter.
Posted by: WVH on November 22, 2007 10:18 PMIn fact, my lyrics are quite good. Perhaps you didn't understand them.
Bruce:
You included me in your list of Ron Paul supporters. I like Ron Paul and support what he does for the most part, but I do not support Ron Paul for the GOP nomination. But thanks for the kudos. :-)
Posted by: pudge on November 23, 2007 12:54 AMOf course you don't support Paul for the nomination..
He gives the party the best chance to win.
Your on quite the roll with picking losing candidates,and It doesn't look like the trend is going to change anytime soon.
Have you found a flute yet?
You may be able to use a flutaphone to get the far righters to follow you into the puget sound.
I was wrong, you didn't have too much to eat, just too much to drink.
"1.Step away from the keyboard
2.Call all of your far right friends
3.Follow the Sound of the flute"
What gibberish. If you think Paul/Chavez/Mugabe gives the republican party the best chance to win you are dumber than your grammar and syntax indicate. The Louisana election between Edwin Edwards, the crook and David Duke the KKK Grand Wizard and Klan leader was the Vote for the Crook election. People voted for the crook, Edwards, just like they will vote for Hillary. You are a total idiot. The future of any viable party lies in candidates like a Bobby Jindal. I suppose you don't like him because his skin is too dark. Yep, you are a poster idiot.
I don't know if you should even be called puppy, public ameba is probably more fitting.
Posted by: WVH on November 23, 2007 05:52 AM1. Does he give contibutions back to Nazis and others that have donated to his campaign?
2. Does he disavow support from extreme elements?
"Saturday, August 18, 2007
Ron Paul: The Radical Right's Man in Washington
from Daily Kos:
posted last May:
THE STRANGE CASE OF LARRY PRATT
In 1996, presidential candidate Pat Buchanan got in hot water when the Center for Public Integrity revealed connections between Buchanan's campaign co-chairman Larry Pratt and Pastor Pete Peters, a leader of the white supremacist Christian Identity movement. Pratt, the executive director of Gun Owners of America, had been a frequent guest at meetings and on radio and television programs hosted by Peters, who inveighed against "Talmudic filth" as Pratt looked on. On February 15, 1996, Pratt took a leave of absence from the Buchanan campaign, so as to avoid causing a "distraction."
The very next day, reported the San Antonio Express-News on February 18, Ron Paul distributed a press release touting Pratt's endorsement of Paul's candidacy for the U.S. Congress. Pratt's endorsement of Paul was anything but pro forma; the February 22, 1996 issue of Roll Call noted that Paul and Mike Gunn, a Republican candidate for Congress in Mississippi who had done some work for David Duke in the latter's 1991 Louisiana gubernatorial campaign, were the only two candidates formally endorsed for office that year by Pratt's organization. Paul's opponent in the Republican primary, Rep. Greg Laughlin, called upon Paul to repudiate Pratt; Paul declined to do so, with his spokesman saying that Paul opposed racism but that "nothing has been proven against Mr. Pratt. He has denied it." (Pratt's enthusiasm for Paul continues to this day, as this quasi-endorsement of Paul's 2008 presidential campaign makes clear.)
THE COMPANY RON PAUL KEEPS
Paul's disinclination to separate himself from the Larry Pratts of the world is part of a pattern that over the last 20 years has seen him snuggling up to some extremely questionable characters on the far right fringe. Like, for example, secessionists, who gathered at a conference in April of 1995 to hear Paul speak about the "once and future Republic of Texas." Or the beady-eyed listeners of The Political Cesspool. It's the unofficial radio program of the Council of Conservative Citizens--you know, the repainted White Citizens Council that got Trent Lott into a bit of trouble a few years ago. (Tune in tonight for their special program on "the disastrous Brown vs. Topeka Board of Education decision, one which ushered in an era of radical leftist ideology upon the American citizenry.") Paul has been a guest on the program; you'll find him listed under P, right above Prussian Blue, the white supremacist teenage singing duo...."
http://adamholland.blogspot.com/2007/08/ron-paul-radical-rights-man-in.html
This is the letter from Michael Medved, what is the response from Mr. Benton and the Paul campaign?
On October 26 nationally syndicated radio talk show host Michael Medved posted an "Open Letter to Rep. Ron Paul" on TownHall.com. It reads:
Dear Congressman Paul:
Your Presidential campaign has drawn the enthusiastic support of an imposing collection of Neo-Nazis, White Supremacists, Holocaust Deniers, 9/11 "Truthers" and other paranoid and discredited conspiracists.
Do you welcome- or repudiate - the support of such factions?
More specifically, your columns have been featured for several years in the American Free Press -a publication of the nation's leading Holocaust Denier and anti-Semitic agitator, Willis Carto. His book club even recommends works that glorify the Nazi SS, and glowingly describe the "comforts and amenities" provided for inmates of Auschwitz.
Have your columns appeared in the American Free Press with your knowledge and approval?
As a Presidential candidate, will you now disassociate yourself, clearly and publicly, from the poisonous propaganda promoted in such publications?
As a guest on my syndicated radio show, you answered my questions directly and fearlessly.
Will you now answer these pressing questions, and eliminate all associations between your campaign and some of the most loathsome fringe groups in American society?
Along with my listeners (and many of your own supporters), I eagerly await your response.
Respectfully, Michael Medved
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaign_and_its.html
Please post the reponse for all to see.
How tightly wound you are.
You are a life hater.
Go live life today and try not to hate it so much.
You bitch about Paul just to bitch.
On the one hand you are too afraid to bet on an outcome because you think Hillary is going to beat any Republican that runs or something like that.
Why bitch about the only guy fiscal conservatives will vote for,if you don't think anybody else will win.
Shouldn't you be out shopping for something that makes you look fat today.
You said:
"How tightly wound you are.
You are a life hater.
Go live life today and try not to hate it so much.
You bitch about Paul just to bitch...."
Interesting, you use the word hate, seem to remember your defintion on neo-con which really was about hatred of Jews and Catholics, wasn't it, puppy? Trying to do a little projection, puppy? The true haters are the anti-semites, Nazis, Christian Identity groups like Aryan Nation, and the David Duke crowd. Which one do you belong to? Which group is your little Paul/Chavez/Mugabe cabal affliated with?
Is an ignorant idiot like you the best response the Paul/Chavez/Mugabe folks have? I asked for a posted reply, not your lame ramblings.
Now for the Paul/Chavez/Mugabe crowd, don't send puppy out to deflect, post a reponse to Medved.
Here is a link
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:sSgymy3HdAsJ:wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyctr/books/2501-2600/HDM2537.PDF+gale+Maxey&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
or
http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesleyctr/books/2501-2600/HDM2537.PDF
I am the third son of Avis Maxey.
My Uncle John Maxey was once the principle at Ingraham High School.
My Aunt Margaret Caldwell taught at lincoln school for 50 years from 1924 to 1974.
It is now a museum.
My Uncle Gale is a retired music teacher in Idaho.
I can not find a direct response to Medved, but the response at 41 covers it. Medved's attacks really deserve no response. They are personal attacks, and guilt by association. Honestly, you talk like some kind of New York lawyer!
I wonder why Ron Paul's message of peace and freedom is so threatening to you?
I wonder why you seem so threatened by me? I am out in the open, publishing under my real name, but you have hidden yourself, as though you were ashamed of what you were posting. If I had posted the hate and venom and personal attacks and falsehoods you have posted, I certainly would not be proud of it. But it is cowardice to hide behind a fortress of anonymity, and lob your baseless charges at peaceful people, who refuse to use your tactics against you.
The venom you spread is really unchristian, and casts you in a very poor light. Ironic that an atheist like me is taking the high road.
I'm going to stop responding to you again, WVH. It was a bad idea for me to start again. If you apologize for your past insults, I may decide to respond again. Until then, I wish you peace.
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on November 23, 2007 11:50 AMGuess what Bruce, I am not a perfect Christian, so your next point is? Stop deflecting, when is
Paul/Chavez/Mugabe going to answer Medved.
It really isn't about me, is it? Your candidate can't answer Medved because if he does, he loses key support. He will never answer Medved. Similarly, you will use the convenient dodge that I am filled with hate and thus you can't respond.
Any how, I have made my point. But, to accuse me of hate? I don't consort with Nazis, KKK, Christian Identity members and the Aryan Nation. I don't take money from Nazis, KKK, Christian Identity Members and the Aryan Nation. Unlike some Paul/Chavez/Mugabe supporters I have never called for the extermination of races, religions, or creeds? Guess in your world because I don't, that makes me full of hate, right? I really feel sorry for you. So, if I am filled with hate, what does that make Paul/Chavez/Mugabe? Oh, I forgot you don't respond to hate filled evil Christians like me, you just shill for that saint, Paul/Chavez/Mugabe.
I admire your education geneology. Teaching is a very noble and honorable profession. Education is the aim of teaching. Given your background, do you believe that the US Constitution applies to all citizens regardless of race, creed, religion, and national origin? If that is in fact your belief, then isn't it appropriate to disavow the Nazis, KKK, and Christian Identity groups like the Aryan Nation who would kill Jews, Catholics, and those of color. If you truly believe that the Constitution has meaning, then no matter your position on economic issues, the real issue is whether "ALL people are endowned by their Creator with certain inalienable rights...." If you believe that, then do you see Nazis, KKK, Christian Identity groups, and the Aryan Nation as supporting that principle of the US government?
This is not an economic fight puppy, it goes beyond that. I guess it is getting to be an American tradition to discover Jewish relatives. Mine is a great grandfather. So, you know who would be the first to go.
To me wrong is wrong,and I will fight to the death fighting wrong , No matter how unpopular it might be to stand up for a controversial issues.
You can count on me to show you something wrong,and to fight like mad to stop it.
No matter what the issue....
On small business issues I stood forward and fought for small business issues,while I was stuck on the hamster wheel of running a small Restraunt Business.
On Transportation Issues I stood forward and fought hard for transportation Isues,while I was crippling myself physically and Financially in the Delivery business hamster wheel.
I feel we have lost all financial incentive for small business,and I blame specific reasons for the loss of that incentive.
I feel that most races and religions understand the incentive of investing money,time and energy to create and run a business,which should be done for profit,and not for socialistic dreams.
It seems that all we have now is a playing field of a few corporate gouges,running from the feelers next load onto the cart.
I fight on blogs every day to prevent that little cornish game hen from costing 10 bucks,keep us from all having to live in hitgh rises downtown, to restore the incentives for small business,and prevent the distribution of soylant green on wednesday..
If I do not think it belongs on the cart I say so.
Read my Articles on Helium and see my position on the issues that matter most to me right know.
http://www.helium.com/user/show_articles/126664
Posted by: Publicbulldog on November 23, 2007 07:12 PM1. Believe it or not, there are many points of agreement between us. I am pretty much a single issue person. I believe that the only way that low-income children will have a better life is to receive a really good basic education. That is the only way they will escape poverty. The current institutional structure must be changed.
2. Now, having said that, people that want change must focus on the local. Change will have to move from the local to the national, not the other way around. The two parties have become so polarized that a Zell Miller is hounded out of the dems and in King County, especially the city of Seattle, republicans that have a chance of winning in Seattle, like a Dan Evans, are shouted out. It is vital that we have a strong two-party system and that means that there will be some conservative dems and some moderate pubbies.
3. I actually agree with you on the issue of small business and taxation. You should read some conservative Blacks, if you haven't already. Star Parker, Thomas Sowell, and Walter Williams among others than can be found at TownHall archives. The best welfare system in the world is a job and the best creator of jobs are small businesses. That segment is crucial.
4. Now, these next comments will bring out the Paul loons. Change is going to have to come at the local level from people that really believe in this system of government. People who believe in precedent, stare decisis and the judical review authority of the Courts. People that accept that sometimes you lose a battle, but you keep fighting the war in a constitutional way. People that do not look for special rights, but look for the rights guaranteed each person by the Constitution. This is a time of economic uncertainty and the middle class is stressed, so the time is right for a demogogue. That is what the scene was in Germany before Hitler. Hitler came to power and he was awful for Germany and even worse for the world.
I think that most people need to think small and focus on what they can do to make their local area and local government better. I think that change will percolate up and that there is no political messiah which will save us. The next government, whether Hillary or Rudy will be an interim government. People will elect a congress of the opposite party. You are correct that the republicans need to be competitive on the local level, though.
For those that are feed-up with the options, get involved on the local level. I think I may go to a Caucus, if I can find the location. Thanks for the link.
Finally, I thank God every day that I live in a country that has allowed me, as a woman, to go to school and pursue my dreams. I just finished reading an article about a brave Muslim woman who is being hounded out of India. That I am able to worship as I choose and that allows me full political expression. I know that many people are so disillusioned with the current choice of tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber, but Paul is not the answer. Think locally and evolve the local, nationally. My best to you and yours, Puppy.
Posted by: WVH on November 23, 2007 09:15 PMWell, check out this op-ed column by popular conservative syndicated journalist Jonah Goldberg:
http://www.kansascity.com/273/story/371764.html
He says that if you think Ron Paul is scary, perhaps Huckabee is scarier. The reason is that Huckabee's views might be closer to the mainstream of Republican thought these days, and that could spell trouble. Why? Because Huckabee is no fiscal conservative, no fan of limited government, and is a populist on government spending and environmentalism.
I ask you, what is worse, someone who tolerates the campaign support of 9/11 Truthers, or someone who actually buys in to the Anthropogenic Global Warming paradigm himself?
He is the exact opposite of a libertarian, and if his views really are popular among Republicans these days, this spells trouble, not just for the Republicans, but for America in general.
Goldberg's main beef with Ron Paul is on foreign policy, but he seems not to mind his other views so much. Jonah is no Ron Paul fan, but take a good hard look at Huckabee before you send him a check. He is no fan of limited government. He is no fan of rational, conservative environmental policy.
If this is the Republican Party, be afraid. Be very afraid.
PETA (people for the ethical treatment of arguments) Disclaimer: No ad hominems were harmed in the production of this comment. I don't use personal attacks against Huckabee or his supporters, and neither should you use personal attacks against Ron Paul or his supporters! :)
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on November 23, 2007 09:16 PMI was doing a bit of reading before blogging. You are the go to guy. Any truth to the rumor that Dennis Kucinich (spelling ?) and Paul are teaming up. Are they possible running mates?
Also, what do you know about Bloomberg running for Prez, any rumors to that?
Posted by: WVH on November 23, 2007 09:35 PM"Ron Paul supporters."
Just a thought.
ERN
Posted by: ERNurse on November 24, 2007 08:35 AMYou are so lame. Huffington Post had a post about Mrs. K being asked whether Kucinich would consider running with Paul/Chavez/Mugabe and she said yes. Kucinich has seen a UFO and Paul/Chavez/Mugabe has seen aliens come out of it wearing sheets and a hood. All the aliens want the US to leave Iraq.
Now regarding Huckabee, I am not aware that he gets a substantial amount of support from Nazis, KKK members and Christian identity groups like the Aryan Nations. Paul does.
Now regarding Bloomberg, if he enters the race as a third party candidate, he is prepared to spend up to $200 million of his own money. Kinda knocks your loon out of the picture.
Now, regarding an apology, for what? Telling the truth about you supporting a Jew hating Nazis loving bigot? Oh Brucie, you can do better than that? You don't have to ever repond to me and Paul/Chavez/Mugabe doesn't ever have to respond to Michael Medved or the other Jewish journalists who have asked him to comment. The non answer speaks volumes. I don't ever have to get a response, it is enough you are forced to repeat your mantra.
So, if you have some Nazis, KKK, or Aryan Nations support or endorsement for Huckabee, post the links as thinking people everywhere want that information. Othewise, Huckabee is just not the issue Paul/Chavez/Mugabe is.
Posted by: WVH on November 24, 2007 08:56 AMAre you suffering from PMS? Ron Paul, despite what you think, is not the cause of your menstrual cramps.
Posted by: Politically Incorrect on November 24, 2007 10:02 AMDr Paul has a 20 year voting record to look at for signs of him being a "jew hating nazi loving bigot" In that 20 year span you will find a pro-liberty anti-authoritarian voting record. His adherence to the constitution is never questioned even by his most vocal critics. He is often mentioned as the last honest man in DC even by his critics.
Yet we have to put up with the likes of WVHs continual claim that Paul is actual a jew hating nazi loving bigot that should be associated with Mugabe and Chavez rather than MLK or Gahndi.
I am starting to wonder if WVH is actual a Paul supporter trying to make Pauls opposition look silly in order to make Paul look better. But that is just getting too complicated. Anyways WVH... you might want to tone it down a bit and perhaps attack Pauls Voting record rather than some obscure question from a 2nd rate radio host that did not get answered for you. You will get more of a response that way. Paul supporters love to talk policy and are more than willing to debate it.
So WVH... What policy do you disagree with Paul on? What votes has he made that you disagree with?
I appreciate Mr. Paul's forthright responses so far, except for the question of: Is he going to return the campaign contributions from the KKK or will he go along and not say anything ? That in itself will speak volumes about his integrity and his intentions !
Posted by: KS on November 24, 2007 12:35 PMHe has already made it clear that he will take anyones donation so long as they gave it to him willingly and from legally aquired funds.
If it comes to his attention that some racist A**hole gave him money, he will gladly take it and use it to promote his non racist agenda.
If a violent a**hole gives him money, Paul will gladly take it and use it to promote his non violent agenda.
If a authoritarian war mongering a**hole contributes to his campaign, Ron Paul will still accept the money and use it to promote is anti-authoritarian anti war agenda.
In other words Ron Paul has no issues with using jerks money against them if the jerks are stupid enough to donate to his campaign.
I understand his thoughts on this and somewhat agree but I also see the benifits of giving the money back since the media seems to be using it to try and smear Paul. Why you would judge a man by a few of his contributors that amount to less than 1% of 1% of his donations rather than his 20 year voting record promoting a non racist, non authoritiarian, peaceful, message is beyond me. But if returning it would silence these critics it seems to be worth it.
But then again taking their money and using it against them is fun too.
In either case taking or returning the money does not make Paul authoritarian, war promoting, racist, or anything else. It makes him a politician trying to get elected to promote his agenda which is a small government that avoids war, seeks to end racism, and curruption.
Travis Pahl
Travis @ 71 deals well with the Nazi canard, which I take just to be a smear tactic and an attempt to distract people from the issues and Ron Paul's clearly stated policies. He is the opposite of a Nazi. A Nazi is a racist, national socialist. Ron Paul is the opposite of a socialist, and his website has a clear statement against racism that is free of divisive, liberal multiculturalism rhetoric and that any Republican should love:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/racism/
While you are at it, social conservatives, check out his statement of faith:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/87/statement-of-faith/
and his pro-life views:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/
I see such cheap, personal attacks as proof that Ron Paul's rhetorical opponents have no rational arguments against him. Why else resort to such low tactics and negative, ad hominem attacks? It is good news! It means Ron Paul is perceived to be a real threat! Go, Ron Paul!
Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on November 24, 2007 02:01 PMApparently Paultards are incapable of reading threads. Ok, Dudes, do you or Paul/Chavez/Mugabe have a response to post #50 above? Do you have a response to Medved? I know I hurt Brucie's feelings and he doesn't deal with evil hateful Christians like me. So, dudes, do you care to respond since Brucie and Paul/Chavez/Mugabe won't?
Also, if you have any info that Huckabee receives funding from Nazis, KKK, Aryan Nations or others of like ilk, please post the info. It really is about fighting Nazis, so if you have the goods on Huckabee post it. People will be just as hard on him. Do either of you deny that Paul/Chavez/Mugabe gets substantial support from Nazis, KKK, Aryan Nations or like ilk?
Posted by: WVH on November 24, 2007 02:07 PMThere is no way in hell that I would ever support a Jew hating Nazis loving bigot like Paul/Chavez/Mugabe. For the record, I don't support anybody, I am researching all the options. I am pretty much an almost anyone but Hillary voter. The only way that I would ever support Hillary is if by some strange set of circumstances Paul/Chavez/Mugabe was the republican nominee and then it is the situation of the Edwards-Duke contest for governor of Louisiana, Vote for the Crook. So, dude, we can spar, but I don't have a death wish.
Posted by: WVH on November 24, 2007 02:12 PMComparing Ron Paul to Mugabe or Chavez is like comparing Thomas Jefferson to Stalin or comparing Benjamin Franklin to Pol Pot.
Is Ron Paul anti-Semetic? No, he isn't. You're reading from Michael Medved's playbook. Medved uses the derogatory term "Losertarians" to describe the Libertarians, and I'm OK with that. He's got the right to say what he wants. Of course he hates Ron Paul! He's part of the Neo-Con movement, and a Libertarian like Paul frightens the beejeepers out of him. Medved also hates Wiccans and other Neo-Pagans. He's an intolerant a-hole. If the Neo-Nazis gave Ron Paul money, so what? I could care less. His campaign is all about individual freedom and personal responsibility. If he spends money to give us a less-intrusive government, one that stays out of foreign adventures and doesn't sponsor crony capitalism, then I'm all for it.
Your people have pretty much made a mess of thing, and the Dems really can't solve any problems: all they know how to do is raise taxes and spend money. Guys like Ron Paul are just what we need.
BTW, are you Jewish? I always pegged your for a right-wing Christian Fundamentalist nutcase.
Posted by: Politically Incorrect on November 24, 2007 03:35 PMI have one Jewish ancestor and I am a practicing Roman Catholic. I always pegged you because your support of Paul/Chavez/Mugabe as a national socialist in league with Nazis, Aryan Nation, and KKK.
You said:
"If the Neo-Nazis gave Ron Paul money, so what? I could care less."
That is the difference between you and a lot of past republican leaders. They disavowed the support of Nazis, Aryan Nation types and the KKK and they gave the money from such contributors back.
Now, regarding Thomas Jefferson, the man was an excellent debator and took on his critics head-on.
So, you dislike Medved, then debate him head-on and respond to his letter point by point. The reason you, Tyler, and Brucie as well as Paul/Chavez/Mugabe don't take on Medved point by point is that you will lose the support of the Aryan Nation, KKK, and Nazi. I must have struck a cord with the Paul/Chavez/Mugabe crowd. But, you answered the criticism with the above quote from you. Sig Heil to you, in this society the ultimate politically incorrect statement.
You have absolutely no evidence of Ron Paul, or anyone in here, being a bigot, or in favor of any bigotry. You state and imply otherwise.
Just like the time you falsely accused JDH of bigotry. And then when I called you on your lie, and you tried and then failed to provide evidence, you compounded your lie by saying the evidence existed (and that it was somehow my responsibility to find evidence you were incapable of finding).
You're a liar. What's really weird though, is that you seem to reserve most of your lies to this one issue: calling people bigots without cause.
Well, not all your lies. You lied about Paul being a socialist, and not supporting stare decisis, etc., but I think you are telling those lies to try to somehow, in your warped way, support your other lies about him being a bigot.
Whatever. I can't psychoanalyze you. I only know you're a big fat liar.
Posted by: pudge on November 24, 2007 10:54 PMYou guys are cracking me up.
Posted by: Michelle on November 24, 2007 10:58 PMTake some more meds. Isn't it interesting how you throw the charge liar against anyone who disagrees with you? I am not fat, either. Now, Pudgie, Tyler, Brucie, and Politically incorrect, let's review.
1. Go to post #50
2. I have posted the article from Lonestar
3. I have posted articles from other publications
4. Now, Thomas Jefferson debated his opponents using facts and logic. Do any of you care to debate Medved point by point? Thought so, all you can do because you really can't defend the indefensible is call people names.
Paul/Chavez/Mugabe has not answered his critics and all of you know it. Now, Brucie has said that if Paul/Chavez/Mugabe does not win the republican nomination, he will not vote republican. Some party person, eh? Now, regarding JDH, Pudgie that is a tactic you use when you don't have facts or logic to back you up. I am entitled to my opinion and if I am incorrect, the person should defend themselves, not you. People are entitled to their opinion, You are a big fat idiot with marginal talent as a musician and singer. Care to challenge me on that? So, dudes, answer Medved and others point by point, otherwise my opinion that Paul/Chavez/Mugabe is a bigot stands. I don't think there will be much argument Pudge that you are a big fat idiot.
Posted by: WVH on November 25, 2007 10:52 AMBruce and Travis: I base my judgment on Ron Paul's actions hereforth, not on biased views from his supporters - although, I will say that your commentary is easier to stomach than the rhetoric from Clinton supporters or Bush-bots.
Posted by: KS on November 25, 2007 04:36 PMI am no Clinton supporter. She took $800,000 from thug hip hop diaster Timbaline. Ask the other Bruce, not Bruce G. I have been all over her fat behind. The only way I would support her is if Ron Paul were the republican nominee. Then it is purely a case of vote for the crook like the campaign between Edwards and David Duke. All Paul has to do is to take Medved's letter point by point and respond. I know of no other presidential campaign in modern campaigns when confronted with a letter such as the one from Medved has failed to respond point by point.
There is a saying:
Those who have the law on their side, argue the law,
Those who have the facts on their side, argue the facts,
Those who have neither, just argue and call others liars.
Are you a pathological liar? Or can you turn it on and off at will?
I am curious.
But either way, you are doing evil. It's sad that you try to represent Christianity, and yet act so evilly through your attempts at deceit.
Posted by: pudge on November 25, 2007 05:18 PM1. Are you a pathological liar and idiot?
2. What is evil about asking over and over again the same questions asked by Medved? You care to respond?
3. By the way, Pudge, I have never aligned myself with David Duke, the Aryan Nation, Nazis and other asorted miscreants. Have you?
4. No, I do not try to represent Christianity. I have said that I am imperfect. Apparently, you aren't. You feel free to call everyone who doesn't agree with your view of the world, a liar.
Those who have the law on their side, argue the law, If you don't have the law, then
Those who have the facts on their side, argue the facts, If you don't have the facts, then
Those who have neither, just argue and call others liars.
So, Pudge any responce to post #50, the Lonestar articles, the request of numerous Jewish journalists about Paul/Chavez/Mugabe's ties to Aryan Nation, Nazis, David Duke and other? Oh, I forgot, I am evil and a liar for even asking.
Win any elections in Sno County with your followers? So, you are an example of leadership in Sno County? No wonder republicans are so scarce, but their is always the Paultards.
For that matter, disliking someone intensely is pretty evil, too.
And Wilda, I don't know why you keep asking me to answer "the Lonestar articles." They have nothing to do with me, why should I?
Posted by: pudge on November 25, 2007 11:57 PM1. What is evil about my expressed religious views, I'm not a Christian Identity member, are you? I don't call people liars routionely, you do.
Just as many Christians fought Nazis and died in ovens, many people of all faiths are questioning Paul/Chavez/Mugabe. Got any answers to #50?
2. Now Pudgie, do you have a response to post #50 other than to call anyone who asks a liar and attack? Thought so, you have no response.
3. I asked you this question:
"3. By the way, Pudge, I have never aligned myself with David Duke, the Aryan Nation, Nazis and other asorted miscreants. Have you?"
Guess that is one answer you really want to dodge.
If you don't want to answer the questions posed by #50, then why don't you ask Paul/Chavez/Mugabe the answers. Scared of what the real answers might be?
You and your little band lost elections big time in Sno County. That county is becoming more diverse. I guess Pudgie, you probably want to consider moving to escape the riff raff. Bet there is some nice land near Hayden Lake, Idaho, for you, Brucie and the rest of the Paul/Mugabe/ Chavez gang.
I never said there was anything evil about your expressed religious views. Stop lying.
I don't call people liars routionely, you do.
There's nothing evil about that, if it is true.
Just as many Christians fought Nazis and died in ovens, many people of all faiths are questioning Paul/Chavez/Mugabe.
Comparing Paul to Chavez, Mugabe, or Nazis, is evil. YOU are a liar, and what YOU say and do here is evil.
I'm rather enjoying this myself.
Posted by: WVH on November 26, 2007 10:02 PMPudge has a unique style of debate. Never directly answer, call someone a liar, misstate the argument. Call someone a liar. Why not have Benton, the PR person go on Medved and address the letter? Kinda puts the issue to rest, doesn't it. Post the transcript of the program.
Posted by: WVH on November 26, 2007 10:50 PMAnd there was nothing for me to directly answer, except for the part about you lying, which I did. The stupid allegations about Paul are not something for me to answer. How you continue to not get that obvious fact is ... sad.
Posted by: pudge on November 27, 2007 05:58 AMNo, dear, I did not lie and you called me on nothing. All you did was evade every question.
You claim that Paul is not a bigot, Jew hater, and consorter with David Duke supporters, kkk members and other assorted wackos. You Pudgie dear are a big fat liar until you produce evidence to counter post #50. Calling people liars is your MO for argument. Produce some facts, fatso. Hey, urge Brucie to request Paul/Chavez/Mugabe to go on Medved or have a representative go on Medved. Post the transcript.
Otherwise, your liar language is just a ruse.
You said Ron Paul is a bigot. That is a lie.
You said Ron Paul is a socialist. That is a lie.
You said Ron Paul does not support stare decisis. That is a lie.
And you asked me not a single question that I evaded. You asked me nothing that is for me to answer. If I asked you why Eric Earling says something or other and you don't answer it, are you evading? Of course not.
You Pudgie dear are a big fat liar until you produce evidence to counter post #50.
False. In fact, NO EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND that shows Paul to be a bigot has been presented.
Someone with a doctorate should understand that basic fact.
Calling people liars is your MO for argument.
False. Calling liars liars is my MO for arguing with liars. I bluntly speak the truth. You believe you do too, but the difference is that I back up my claims. You refuse to.
As usual, you have provided not a single shred of evidence for any allegation you've made against Paul, and because you cannot defend your lies, you resort to ad hominem against the people who call you on your lies.
Posted by: pudge on November 27, 2007 06:03 PMPaul/Chavez/Mugabe is what post #50 and Medved's letter indicate. Any response, Pudgie other than to call me a liar? Thought so. Oh, any reponse to my very specific questions to you:
1. I'm not a Christian Identity member, are you?
2. Paul/Chavez/Mugabe associates with Nazis, David Duke supporters and the Aryan Nation. Do you?
Any response? thought so.
No, Pudgie dear, you are the big fat liar with a very limited capacity for rational argument and telling the truth. When Paul/Chavez/Mugabe either goes on Medved or sends a representive to answer Medved's letter, you might have some basis for your position. Without that you are just a big fat liar who has to hurl insults at people because you have no facts to support your position.
Posted by: WVH on November 27, 2007 09:29 PMYou are a big fat liar, respond to this article:
November 28, 2007
November 14, 2007
The Ron Paul Campaign and its Neo-Nazi Supporters
By Andrew Walden
When some in a crowd of anti-war activists meeting at Democrat National Committee HQ in June, 2005 suggested Israel was behind the 9-11 attacks, DNC Chair Howard Dean was quick to get behind the microphones and denounce them saying: "such statements are nothing but vile, anti-Semitic rhetoric."
When KKK leader David Duke switched parties to run for Louisiana governor as a Republican in 1991, then-President George H W Bush responded sharply, saying, "When someone asserts the Holocaust never took place, then I don't believe that person ever deserves one iota of public trust. When someone has so recently endorsed Nazism, it is inconceivable that someone can reasonably aspire to a leadership role in a free society."
Ron Paul is different....
But there are many questions about Paul's apparent unwillingness to reject extremist groups' public participation in his campaign and financial support of his November 5 "patriot money-bomb plot."
On October 26 nationally syndicated radio talk show host Michael Medved posted an "Open Letter to Rep. Ron Paul" on TownHall.com.... There is more. The Texas-based Lone Star Times October 25 publicly requested a response to questions about whether the Paul campaign would repudiate and reject a $500 donation from white supremacist Stormfront.org founder Don Black and end the Stormfront website fundraising for Paul. The Times article lit up the conservative blogosphere for the next week. Paul supporters packed internet comment boards alternately denouncing or excusing the charges. Most politicians are quick to distance themselves from such disreputable donations when they are discovered. Not Paul.
Daniel Siederaski of the Jewish Telegraph Agency tried to get an interview with Paul, calling him repeatedly but not receiving any return calls. Wrote Siederaski November 9: "Ron Paul will take money from Nazis. But he won't take telephone calls from Jews." [Update] Finally on November 13 the Paul campaign responded. In a short interview JTA quotes Jim Perry, head of Jews for Paul describing his work on the Paul campaign along side a self-described white supremacist which Perry says he has reformed.
Racist ties exposed in the Times article go far beyond a single donation. Just below links to information about the "BOK KKK Ohio State Meeting", and the "BOK KKK Pennsylvania State Meeting", Stormfront.org website announced: "Ron Paul for President" and "Countdown to the 5th of November". The links take readers directly to a Ron Paul fundraising site from which they can click into the official Ron Paul 2008 donation page on the official campaign site. Like many white supremacists, Stormfront has ties to white prison gangs....
Perhaps frustrated by the weasel words, Lone Star Times asked Benton: "Bottom line- Will the Ron Paul campaign be rejecting the $500 contribution made by neo-Nazi Don Black?"
Benton's response:
"At this time, I cannot say that we will be rejecting Mr. Black's contribution, but I will bring the matter to the attention of our campaign director again, and expect some sort of decision to be made in coming days."
On October 11 Stormfront Radio endorsed Ron Paul for President saying:
"Whatever organization you belong to, remember first and foremost that you're a white nationalist, then put aside your differences with one another and work together. Work together to strive to get someone in the Oval Office who agrees with much of what we want for our future. Look at the man, look at the issues, look at our future. Vote for Ron Paul, 2008."
As of November 11--the Ron Paul donation link is still up and active on Stormfront. No IP address has been blocked. Stormfront's would-be stormtroopers are still encouraged to contribute to Paul's campaign.
The white supremacists do more than raise funds. Blogger Adam Holland reports:
"one of Rep. Paul's top internet organizers in Tennessee is a neo-Nazi leader named Will Williams (aka 'White Will'). Williams was the southern coordinator for William Pierce's National Alliance Party, the largest neo-Nazi party in the U.S."
Pierce is author of the racist "Turner Diaries". When the Lone Star Times exposed the $500 Don Black donation, Williams responded on the national Ron Paul meetup site,
"Must Dr. Paul capitulate to our Jewish masters' demands?"
The mild responses to Williams' MeetUp post make a sharp contrast to the hatred and invective with which Paul supporters respond to Medved or any other writer questioning Paul's refusal to disassociate himself from his racist supporters. Any other campaign would presume Williams' expression of anti-Semitism was a dirty trick by an opposing campaign. Williams would have been hurriedly denounced and booted out of the campaign. Not Ron Paul....
Williams has also organized at least one other discussion, "the Israel factor revisited" on the national Ron Paul MeetUp site. Again the measured tone of the remarks by Ron Paul supporters in the comments section contrasts sharply with the invective Paul supporters rain down upon bloggers who oppose him. Paul's campaign relies heavily on MeetUp sites to organize. Over 61,000 Paul supporters are registered on MeetUp as compared to 3,400 for Barack Obama, 1,000 for Hillary Clinton, 1,800 for Dennis Kucinich and only a couple of dozen members for most other candidates.
On the white-supremacist Vanguard News Network, Williams links to Paul's "grassroots" fundraising site and organizes other racists to "game You Tube" to advance a specific Ron Paul video to the top of You Tube's rankings. Writes Williams, "Everybody here can do this, except bjb w/his niggerberry." Holland points out, "BJB" stands for "burn Jew burn". BJB's internet signature is, "Nothing says lovin' like a Jew in the oven."
Williams is not Paul's only supremacist supporter. "Former" KKK leader (and convicted fraudster) David Duke's website http://www.whitecivilrights.com/, calls Ron Paul "our king" and cheers while "Ron Paul Hits a Home Run on Jay Leno Show." Duke also includes a "Ron Paul campaign update" and plugs Ron Paul fundraising efforts. These articles are posted right next to articles such as "Ten reasons why the Holocaust is a fraud" and "Germans Still Remember their Historical Greatness"-featuring a map of Hitler's Third Reich at its 1942 military height, just in case anybody doesn't get the point. Apparently "Dr. Paul's positive agenda for freedom" is attractive to those who ape the world's worst tyrants and genocidaires.
There are others. In a You Tube video circulating the internet, Ron Paul is endorsed by Hutton Gibson, a leading Holocaust denier and father of controversial actor and director Mel Gibson....
"Stating that lobbying groups who seek special favors and handouts are evil, Paul wrote, 'By far the most powerful lobby in Washington of the bad sort is the Israeli government' and that the goal of the Zionist movement is to stifle criticism."
"Ron Paul-America's Last Chance", a January, 2007 article by Ted Lang on the anti-Semitic site Rense.com, makes a familiar argument for supporting Paul....
In spite of official silence from the Paul Campaign, hordes of Paul supporters lit up the comments section of Michael Medved's open letter on TownHall.com. In a phenomenon familiar to any blogger who posts information negative to Paul, the 500-plus comments include several which indicate that Medved has got Paul's supporters dead to rights:
"Your own Zionism is slipping, Medved! Why should anyone disassociate from 9/11 Truthers?"
"I suggest you take off the tin-foil yamika (sic), your brain is fried."
"You will do anything to smear this good man to try and safeguard US policy in Israel."
"Hey Medved. Tell your AIPAC handlers to be nervous. You are failing miserably."
"It's patently obvious why you don't support Dr. Paul: He's not hand-picked by AIPAC and the Likud Party."
Over at Liberty Post, a self-described "Christian Zionist" identifying himself as 'David Ben-Ariel' adds this response:
"If discredited and paranoid Michael Medved is so concerned about it, let him actually follow his Judaism to the Jewish Homeland of Israel and take the treacherous ACLU and its liberal ilk, and every other self-hating, defeatist, godless group and loathsome organization with him. What's he got to lose, especially if he fails to believe the Israeli oligarchy is under German-Jesuit control and guilty of murdering Yitzhak Rabin? ... I'm voting for Ron Paul."
Besides the Paul backers whose words seem to provide backing to Medved's case, others complain that it is wrong to question the sources of Paul's support.... Writing on the "Daily Paul", Mike Bergmaier complains it is "unfair" for Medved to demand Paul renounce the support of anti-Semites, white supremacists, and neo-Nazis. Really? Why?
Lew Rockwell attempts to respond to Medved's question by echoing leftist themes equating Nazis with mainstream conservatives. Rockwell argues Medved should renounce Cheney and Bush. In a weak effort at verbal judo, Rockwell calls Medved's letter a "neocon libel...."
If Paul wants to be taken seriously, he must stop cowering behind the internet and face these questions. Until then it is only reasonable to presume that Paul is happy to wallow in well-financed obscurity accepting the support of some of the worst enemies of freedom and liberty within American society.
© American Thinker 2007
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaign_and_its.html
Posted by WVH at November 28, 2007 02:00 AM
Posted by: WVH on November 28, 2007 02:05 AMYou have not given one single example where I have lied. Feel free to call me a liar, but shouldn't you back that up?
When you do, I will answer your questions (the ones that have to do with me, that is). HAND HTH!
Posted by: pudge on November 28, 2007 04:38 AMThe American Thinker article details the tactics of Paul/Chavez/Mugabe supporters when challenged. i assume you got the memo. You hurl the charge of liar at anyone who disagrees with you. Paul/Chavez/Mugabe is at the minimum a 20 year associate of Nazis, KKK, and Aryan Nation types, you have no facts to dispute the article and have never had any facts to dispute the article. You are a big fat liar. Care to answer the following questions, Pudgie?
a. I have on a prior thread asked Pudgie the following questions:
I am not a Christian Identity member, are you?
I have never associated with Nazis, KKK, and Aryan Nations types, have you?
Care to answer Pudgie?
Posted by: WVH on November 28, 2007 09:40 AMYou're waiting, just like I'm waiting for the reponse to this:
. I have on a prior thread asked Pudgie the following questions:
I am not a Christian Identity member, are you?
I have never associated with Nazis, KKK, and Aryan Nations types, have you?
Care to answer Pudgie?
So, given the manner you debate, your next move is to call the person a liar. You claim Paultard is not a bigot and probably worse. I disagree and so does a slew of articles. So, since you are Chair of a republican group, are Paul's views mainstream in your area? If so, republicans in King County will literaly be tarred with the residue.
Anyhow, your latest video was better
Posted by: WVH on November 28, 2007 10:49 PM