November 22, 2007
The Trouble with Progressives

Maybe it's not even really the trouble with progressives, it's the trouble of governing with a small majority in Congress with a President of the opposite party. Republicans know that drill from the late 1990's. Either way, things aren't going exactly well for Democrats in Congress right now.

Right after last November, I conjectured the friction between "progressives" and rest of the party - and thus the Democratic leadership in Congress too - would be a problem. That doesn't seem to be in doubt at this point, as Democrats in Congress don't exactly have much to hang their hat on, nor is their base terribly happy with them even as it pulls them farther and farther to the left.

Joe Klein, moderate Democrat to the stars and despised figure among the netroots, offers some harsh words on the current state of affairs within the Democratic Party on matters pertaining to national security. Summarizing passage:

That sort of clarity has been rare in the presidential campaign and almost totally nonexistent among the Democrats in Congress, who are being foolishly partisan on two key issues: continued funding for the war in Iraq and updating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). The Iraq-funding issue is particularly difficult. Senator Carl Levin's proposal for a gradual troop withdrawal, starting now, is the right policy. Various Bush Administration officials -- though none in the White House -- have told me that a troop withdrawal is the best leverage we have for shoving the Iraqis into a national-reconciliation deal. But Levin made troop withdrawal a condition for continued funding of the war, which is a kamikaze mission. The bill couldn't muster the votes necessary to overcome a filibuster, much less the inevitable Bush veto. Indeed, with Iraq calmer for the moment, Democrats probably have fewer votes for ending the war than they did last spring. And their continued indulgence in these futile, symbolic gestures conveys a sense of weakness and incompetence. Whatever political value these votes once had -- getting Republicans on the record in favor of continuing the war -- has long since dissipated and may actually work against the Democrats if the progress in Iraq continues.

The Democratic strategy on the FISA legislation in the House is equally foolish. There is broad, bipartisan agreement on how to legalize the surveillance of phone calls and emails of foreign intelligence targets. The basic principle is this: if a suspicious pattern of calls from a terrorist suspect to a U.S. citizen is found, a FISA court warrant is necessary to monitor those communications. But to safeguard against civil-liberty abuses, all records of clearly nontargeted Americans who receive emails or phone calls from foreign suspects would be, in effect, erased. Unfortunately, Speaker Nancy Pelosi quashed the House Intelligence Committee's bipartisan effort and supported a Democratic bill that -- Limbaugh is salivating -- would require the surveillance of every foreign-terrorist target's calls to be approved by the FISA court, an institution founded to protect the rights of U.S. citizens only. In the lethal shorthand of political advertising, it would give terrorists the same legal protections as Americans. That is well beyond stupid.

As Dodd said, when the President takes the oath of office, he (or she) promises two things: to protect the Constitution and to protect the nation against enemies, foreign and domestic. If the Democrats can't find the proper balance between those two, they simply will not win the presidency.

Democrats who have visions of actually presenting a viable, forward-thinking agenda in the 2008 elections, rather than just running as the anti-Bush, would be prudent to keep that in mind. If the netroots will let them.

Posted by Eric Earling at November 22, 2007 10:04 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Wow, a well thought out, lucid, and coherent argument for sensible action by the Democratic party. How long has it been since we saw that from anyone on the left?

Posted by: Calvin A on November 22, 2007 10:08 AM
2. No one was more progressive that our Founding Fathers and they would find the current crop of Demo's to be what they are: Complete idiots.

Posted by: Walters on November 22, 2007 10:14 AM
3. The trouble with "Progressives" is that they are mis-named. Everything about what they stand for is Regressive. They want to Go Back to an overall more-primitive way of living-no social behavior standards, no intellectual standards, no technological advances (except for in-vitro fertilization), live in caves, eat fruits and berries, etc., etc. Maybe we should give them their own corner of the US and let them do whatever they want, then wait to see what happens.

Posted by: Carol Kujawa on November 22, 2007 10:28 AM
4. Carol @3,

My view of the "progressives" is that they're just socialists who choose to use a neater-sounding name. When you look at the root of their overall agenda, government direction of our individual lives is at its core. "Progressives" believe the answer to every problem is more taxes and more government. There's no room for the individual.

As far as giving them their own area of the country goes, we kind of have that now. Western Washington, for example (in the I-5 corridor countries), is populated by many, many "progressives." Oregon is much the same in the western areas. In effect, progressives" have pretty much staked out areas in most of the states as areas populated by them and run for them. It would be nice to get them all into one area, say Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Vermont, but I think the logistics of that wouldn't work.

It's a nice thought, though, isn't it?

Posted by: Politically Incorrect on November 22, 2007 10:42 AM
5. No one ever said Progressives are rational. They are just very determined to advance their Marxism. Fortunately for this country, it takes more than determination to get things done. And especially in a country where most can easily see that the trade-off for individual freedom is personal responsibility.

In the long run, very few will side with Progressives because we all know that collectivism just doesn't work. Even a verbal Progressive like Goldy moved his daughter away from Progressive SPS schools to Mercer Island schools. Only a fool will sign up for a failed ideology.

Posted by: Jeff B. on November 22, 2007 10:50 AM
6. Politically Incorrect @4: the libertarians have already got NH. That is the Free State Project. Live Free or Die! NH has no sales or income tax. Gun restrictions are minimal. I'd say the progressives already own neighboring Vermont, though.

I'll bet that Ron Paul wins the NH primary! NH has the highest per-capita Ron Paul donations of any state. I think Montana is number two. WA is in the top ten!

The thing about socialism is that there is no way that a libertarian can practice his or her favorite form of govenrment within a socialistic region. But a socialist is free to form a commune within a libertarian society, and practice a version of socialism in that way. Limited government should be the norm of this nation, and if you want to bind yourself further, you should join some special association.

Socialists want to use force against peaceful people. Libertarians want people to be free, and only want to use force against theives, rapists and murderers and those who have already made a first use of force against others. The progressives have denounced Gandhi and non-violence, though they do not realize it! Since most of them revere Gandhi, they have no idea that their views contradict each other.

The only form of government compatible with Gandhi, and Jesus for that matter, is a libertarian republic like the one the founders tried to give us in the Constitution. Too bad the people no longer value liberty and the Constitution.

Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on November 22, 2007 11:59 AM
7. It's just about impossible to take the democrats seriously on National security issues. They don't at all put out the vibe that they actually think we are a country worth protecting,and the vandalous antics down in Olympia only hurt their side even more.

Posted by: Michele on November 22, 2007 12:16 PM
8. Wait, Goldy pulled his daughter out of a "Progressive" school with too many scary brown people? Don't tell me Goldy is a flaming hypocrite!

Posted by: Liberal_Crusher on November 22, 2007 12:31 PM
9. PI @4-
I was born and raised right here, educated in the Seattle Public Schools before they fell apart, and believe this is really God's Country. This year is the first time I have really seriously considered getting out, but there is really nowhere else in the USA with our combination of climate and economic vitality (in spite of the anti-business bias of the government). Hubby working for "Lazy B" doesn't make it any easier.
Having a group of like-minded people to discuss things with here on SP keeps me sane. Has anyone considered having some sort of physical meeting of SP posters so we can actually get together?

Posted by: Carol Kujawa on November 22, 2007 02:27 PM
10. #9 Carol:

Liberalism is a mental disorder. No wonder hanging around those people causes difficulties. I am thankful that I don't have to be around too many liberals.

Posted by: Liberal_Crusher on November 22, 2007 03:07 PM
11. "Progressives" are the modern equivelant of the 1930's Democrats, those extolling the New Deal and the "progressive" U.S.S.R. as a model for dealing with the Great Depression. They are one and the same with the apologists for Stalin, those who ignored the murder of 60 millions in the U.S.S.R.'s gulags as the understandable breaking of eggs to make an omelet. They admired Stalin and hated Hitler, then admired Stalin AND Hitler (when Stalin and Hitler were allies) and then portrayed themselves as patriotic Americans when Hitler invaded the U.S.S.R.
They were, then, despicable as they are now.

Posted by: Attila on November 22, 2007 04:03 PM
12. #11 - So true. Also keep in mind, Hillary Clinton labeled herself as a progressive in an earlier debate. She also help found "Media Matters" a far left nutroots blog - she confessed to that at the Daily Kos convention back in July.

Posted by: KS on November 22, 2007 04:46 PM
13. Progressive is just a "nice" modern word for socialist/communist. Their goal is collectivism, one provider (their idea of government) where no one but those in POWER have any true freedom. Reminds me of China 20 years ago, Viet Nam now. Anyway here is a LONG read from a true progressive (a college professor as well) that will ruin your half digested turkey.
Common Dreams

Posted by: Ken Howard on November 22, 2007 07:18 PM
14. Jeff B. @ 5:

It is indeed difficult for any conservative to consider trading individual freedom for collectivism. But look at Russia, where an apparent majority of people are demanding that Putin return the government to Soviet-style socialism.

The Russians are like convicts released from prison, in that they miss the "three meals and a warm bed" much more than they desire the right to individual freedom.

Socialist Democrats in this country are promising American indolents the very same, and again in trade for their freedoms. I'm certain that behind the scences the Clintons, Obama, Edwards, Pelosi and Reid are laughing at the lazy, gullible fools who would bargain their birthright for a bowl of soup.

Posted by: Saltherring on November 23, 2007 06:20 AM
15. "Progressive" is yet another twisting of definitions by the extreme leftists in control of the Homocrat Party.

I am not fooled. I still know wrong from right.

Posted by: Independent Voter on November 23, 2007 09:08 AM
16. An interesting aside. The right leaning governing party in Canada is called the Progressive Conservative Party.

It got its name from the joining of two political movements - the Farm Progressives and the Conservative - in the 1930's when it seemed that these two political movements were the only hope against the socialists and their liberal allies.

The recent (1990's to present) joining of conservatives and libertarians under the Republican Party banner is a somewhat similar coalition.

Whether it will succeed is not clear. The religious factions of the Republican Party hold the most power within the current coalition and many (fiscal) conservatives and libertarians are more than a little peeved at the spendthrift ways of the party during the last ten years when the religious right held the reins of power.

In addition the lack of tolerance of the religious right is grating to many libertarians. However, the lack of tolerance of the "progressives" pales in comparison and is more akin to European fascist or communist ideologies than to any American political movement.

Posted by: deadwood on November 23, 2007 10:32 AM
17. #10-Liberalism is a Religion, with its own dogma, hierarchy, and Inquisition for heretics. Look how they treat "global warming deniers"-as heretics. Another aside-a defining characteristic is the Freudian concept of "Projection". Whatever they are doing, is what they accuse YOU of doing. Hate, bigotry, intolerance, etc-all characteristics of Liberals.

Posted by: Carol Kujawa on November 23, 2007 10:42 AM
18. Progressives is action:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=495495&in_page_id=1879

Posted by: deadwood on November 23, 2007 10:46 AM
19. Deadwood @ 16 IS RIGHT ON!
So is Saltherring @14, and Carol K. @ 17.

Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on November 24, 2007 11:13 AM
20. Eric, oh so true. The Dems have a huge problem in 2008. People who think it will be a cakewalk are only fooling themselves. Which is good! :-)

Posted by: pudge on November 24, 2007 11:00 PM
21. Sorry Deadwood. As I remember, the "Moral Majority" was at its strongest in the mid to late 70's with the rise of Falwell.

In fact, Reagan had them to thank for getting elected. If the Republicans spent too much money during W's presidency, it has more to do with the influence of the libs on the Pubs.

Posted by: Disagree with Deadwood... on November 28, 2007 04:03 PM
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