I know, it pains the fingers a little bit to type that; especially when the blogger is Lee, who has a reputation for...uh...colorful commentary, under that moniker and others.
Nonetheless, if you want to understand the sort of discourse occurring on the left regarding metro Puget Sound transportation issues, read Lee taking a hammer to the Sierra Club.
Conservatives are going to need more such practical thinking - neocon analogies aside - from non-Sierra Club lefties and people not named Ron Sims in order to have a prayer of getting suburban roads projects addressed.
Posted by Eric Earling at November 16, 2007 10:08 PM | Email ThisA roads package by itself is a dead duck if Seattle is in the voting mix. That's why the RTID never went to the ballot by itself in years prior. Polling showed it was toast as a stand alone in the central Puget Sound area. The vote of the greenies against Prop 1 - where they wouldn't even accept some roads in return for beaucoup light rail - simply solidified the point.
Posted by: Eric Earling on November 17, 2007 09:52 AMYou ask a cherry-picked boatload of people from Snohomish/Pierce _that_commute_ whether they'd like, say, I5 widened. What? No, I _didn't_ ask Seattlites, they don't _use_ I-5 ... relatively speaking.
Lady on Queen Anne with an electric scooter? Gerrymandered out. Trucking businesses? Gerrymandered _in_.
Posted by: Al on November 17, 2007 10:23 AMWe have less than 100 employees here, but they live in various places like Renton, Snohomish, Vashon Island, Silverdale, and Shoreline. A good amount of them also live within the city of Seattle too.
Which he propounds a rebut to Virgin's argument that businesses and employees should simply move closer together. I'm not sure that this doesn't augment Virgin, because it sounds like most of his employees live near the business.
Then he goes on to call for light rail. Well, maybe I haven't looked at a map lately, but how is a rail line going to help someone who lives in Vashon or Silverdale?
Posted by: John Bailo on November 17, 2007 09:49 PMI have been in transportation for fourteen years. I just wanted to share my thoughts and experience here, and hopefully contribute to this discussion.
Taxes – Yes, it was about taxes, but not peoples unwillingness to pay them. They do not see government utilizing their hard earned dollars efficiently or effectively. They want to see a return on their investment, and sooner, not later. Taxpayers are fed up with government continuing to increase taxes with no more benefits to show for it. Government (local and state) is out of control with its spending, and there are no serious measures to control it. This is why these measures go down. People are compassionate and will pay for services they deem worthy, and to fund institutions that manage their money prudently. This is not our government.
Light Rail – I have been in transportation for almost fourteen years. Light rail is a fallacy, and particularly in a sprawling area like the Puget Sound. Yes, it will have a place, even here, but not now and not in the near future. It is expensive in terms of capital and construction costs as well as operations and maintenance, it has questionable impact on environment and traffic congestion, and by time it is completed it will be obsolete. Too many politicians get involved and you end up with a system that is completely useless. Look around the nation and you will see plenty of evidence of these things. We can plan now for light rail in about twenty years, and if we do so accurately, and coordinate it with our regional planning and zoning, it will be less costly, and we can utilize new technology.
Penalties – Trying to force people out of their cars will not work. People will not give up their cars, particularly on the west coast. You will end up with a totally disenfranchised population, and you will see another taxpayers rebellion. It has been tried before. It does not work.
Relocation – With the housing market in the shape it is in, are they suggesting that people put their homes on the market now and start looking for a home. The realtors won’t like it because they can not sell the currently bloated inventory that is already out their. Many people who qualified for loans over the past few years can’t get them anymore because the subprime is gone. And do you want to talk about the impact of these changes on the family, on our children. It is not going to happen.
Roads projects – A comprehensive roads package is only a part of the package. I certainly do not want to see eight lane highways in the Puget Sound area. Yes, I am from out of the area, but the beauty of the area is one of the reasons I moved here. Roads do need to be improved on a regional basis. But there are many other things that we can do.
1. Telecommuting (tax incentives or mandated)
2. Staggered shifts in manufacturing areas.
3. Vanpooling (regional database)
4. Ridesharing (mandated)
5. High speed lanes (with tolls)
6. Special truck lanes
7. Coordinated signal lights (regional)
8. Better planning and zoning (with transportation considerations as a priority)
There are a lot of ideas that can be implemented within a year and have an immediate impact on congestion, commute times, and the environment. These ought to be at the top of our list.
1. Hate freeways
2. Hate Bush
3. Global Warming will destroy the planet unless we enact Uber-socialism NOW!!!
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Eric, thanks for the link. I really hate to say this, but when you look at the kind of backlash you receive any time you try to inject any common sense into this debate, you end up being buried in the minority (on both sides).
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@6
Dave,
If light rail is a fallacy, then what's the alternative? How does someone in Seattle commute to a job in Federal Way or Tacoma? How does someone from Rainier Valley commute to Redmond? Telecommuting would be great, and really needs to be done, but most companies would go for it 1-2 days a week max.
I think you left a comment over at HA as well. I probably won't be back to check, but feel free to email me. I'd love to pick your brain on this stuff. I just don't see any alternative to rail in a metropolitan area this spread out.
Posted by: thehim on November 19, 2007 08:59 AMJack and thehim: I welcome a chance to dig into your views a little more. I'll be in Seattle next week and maybe we could get a cuppa in.
Posted by: BOB R on November 19, 2007 03:04 PM