November 01, 2007
Boeing Spills Some More Beans

Check out this Everett Herald article on a speech former 787 program chief Mike Bair gave in Snohomish County. Sounds like the 787 supply chain won't be replicated in full for a 777 or 737 replacement in the future thanks to problems with some of the partners tasked with assembling components for the current project; problems that are more notable than previously indicated by the company.

UPDATE: here's the Times coverage too. Note the point that since they'd like their partners to be clustered together rather than spread around the globe for future such airplanes that it's an open question whether the Puget Sound region would retain the assembly lines for the 777 and/or 737 replacement models.

Posted by Eric Earling at November 01, 2007 07:45 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Don Brunell over at the columbian states that South Carolina is lusting for Boeing and are willing to do anything possible to get the business.

Don Brunell says our tax structure is poor for business.

http://www.columbian.com/business/businessNews/2007/10/10302007_Watch-out-Washington-or-Boeing-may-fly-away.cfm

Posted by: swatter on November 1, 2007 09:31 AM
2. Swatter.

Sad isn't it. Thanks you Dem's. If Boeing leaves this state it take one heck of a HIT!

Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on November 1, 2007 09:40 AM
3. Hostility to business in general oozing out of Olympia for decades coming home to roost.

Between horrific transportation congestion, the Machinist union, nanny state regulation, hostility to business, Washington is in a long goodbye kiss with Boeing.

Our own political niativity, stupidity, and immaturity drives out a homegrown world class business.

Any half wit could see the parallels with GM, Ford, Chryser/UAW and Boeing/Washington/Machinists.

Unfortunately, Olympia has so very few half wits, mostly no wits.

Thanks, Democrats!!

Posted by: Hank on November 1, 2007 09:44 AM
4. OOPs..

The state will take one heck of a HIT!

Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on November 1, 2007 09:49 AM
5. Smackdown. I wish I could say I feel sorry for Boeing but I don't. Boeing's dream of "global" supply chain has become a nightmare. So much for globalization.
At least, Boeing has realized it's mistake.

Posted by: M&M on November 1, 2007 10:09 AM
6. This is what happens when Atlas Shrugs. The Dems have been coddling the unions and playing favorites with big business for years to get votes. Unlike the government world where Dems live, out here in reality, Boeing must turn a profit to survive. So, eventually, they will have to do the right thing, and cut employees who are far too expensive, because they've been told for years that their union jobs actually deserve higher pay than what the market would otherwise bear.

What's really too bad, is that many of the union employees are good people with great skills that could probably earn more than what they are being paid by the union. But, once you get hypnotized, or just plain locked in to a union lifestyle, it's hard to break free. And so, you get use to high benefits, and you get use to looking the other way when you support high pay for those who do a poorer job, but are still part of the brotherhood. And then there's the administrative overhead of the union fat cats. Money that would otherwise go in to the pockets of skilled and talented employees in an open shop, because a good company would want to retain such talent. Or if nothing else, lower the total payroll costs, that are a big hit to the bottom line of a large employer like Boeing.

Democrats want it both ways. They want lots of tax revenue from successful companies, but then they want to blow it on supporting all kinds of collectivism, that does not support it's own weight. Eventually, the bottom falls out, and everyone is left hurting. Look for the same thing to happen with Social Security and Hillarycare as well. Real value costs money, and all that money in the government comes from somewhere.

Far better to simply do the right thing in the beginning, and acknowledge the hard market reality that you can't get something for nothing.

Posted by: Jeff B. on November 1, 2007 10:16 AM
7. What sort of tax breaks do you think Boeing gets? Didn't we settle this when they decided to build the 787? I seems to recall Airbus wasn't too happy and took it to the WTO....Govt. based subsidies anyone?

There's only so much the State can do before they end up in a Sonics like stalemate.

You guys would be happy if they left, traffic would be a lot more manageable. =P

Posted by: Cato on November 1, 2007 11:01 AM
8. swatter @1 -

Washington's state tax structure is poor for new businesses, as they must pay the B&O tax even if they don't make a profit.

However, many established businesses (Boeing included) resist changes, as a profit-based tax would place a greater share of the tax burden on them.

Posted by: ewaggin on November 1, 2007 12:02 PM
9. If they did move they would have to build new factories to handle all the orders which I'm sure is not cheap. They'd have to do it without disrupting production of current planes. Also they'd have further disconnect from the white-collar Engineering Dept. (which would likely remain here) and their blue-collar assembly force. This seems pretty easy in the digital age but what effect would it have on the company morale?

Posted by: Cato on November 1, 2007 12:13 PM
10. I was told by a car dealer he had to pay sales tax or B&O tax when they brought the cars in from Detroit? (and that is a ton of inventory and B&O tax) when, during slow times, the new cars sit on the lot longer than they should. My understanding that if they went to a different tax based on profit or after sales, they could live with it. As it is, selling cars is a lot riskier.

Posted by: swatter on November 1, 2007 12:25 PM
11. Cato @7 -

Don't confuse tax breaks with subsidies.

Airbus has flourished, at Boeing's expense, on subsidies provided solely for their benefit by (primarily) the French and German governments.

The tax breaks that Boeing received for locating the 787 final assembly line in Washington are available to any company, including Airbus, that makes a similar commitment.

Posted by: ewaggin on November 1, 2007 12:30 PM
12. You guys would be happy if they left, traffic would be a lot more manageable. =P
_________________________________

I guess cato failed Econ-101.
Yeah less people and a LOT less tax money Cato and we know darn well the taxes will never go down. But heck you don't mind paying more do you?


Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on November 1, 2007 01:34 PM
13. Yeah less people and a LOT less tax money Cato

I thought you hated taxes? Are you implying that you've found a new found love for them? That reminds me isn't King County Proposition 1 about raising my property taxes so you can keep doing your job? =)

Posted by: Cato on November 1, 2007 04:13 PM
14. Bye Bye Renton River train, Bye Bye Boeing, Bye Bye millionares (selling out and moving out of state), Bye Bye Sonics, where does it stop.

Bye Bye Gregoire, Bye Bye Sims, Bye Bye Nichols!

We need some new leadership in this state!

Posted by: GS on November 1, 2007 05:32 PM
15. Here's some interesting bathroom reading:

2007 State Business Tax Climate Index


This was interesting...

Lawmakers do, however, have
direct control over how friendly their tax systems
are to business. Furthermore, unlike changes to a
state's health care, transportation, or education system--
which can take decades to implement--
changes to the tax code bring almost instantaneous
benefits to a state's business climate.


Posted by: Smoley on November 1, 2007 07:20 PM
16. If the supply base was the major problem for the 787 delay Why is the management for the supply base at Boeing still there ? Amazing that they aren't replaced.

Posted by: Randy White on November 2, 2007 07:52 AM
17. Wow. Sometimes it's really hard to believe this is a conservative blog.

A Basic of conservatism: When the individual works, the individual is rewarded. At BA, it is the reverse.

When a worker, engineer or assembler, invents, creates, improves or otherwise outproduces, sure as the sun will rise, some "manager" will be there to take credit and put it all on a chart.

A basic of communism is the henny-penny theory: The worker works and everybody else gets rewarded. This is BA writ large today. Lots and lots of chart-makers, damned few part makers.

Truism: BA's customers pay for parts. Big ones. They are called airplanes (or other aerospace products). They do not pay for charts. The adage inside of BA today is "make charts, not parts".

True story: I'm part of a group that is instrumental in travelling around the world attempting to teach those who have NEVER MADE SOMETHING SO COMPLEX AS AN AIRPLANE how to do so. In Japan (won't say which factory), there are damned few of us, but damned too many managers (but not ones who have any history of actually doing anything). On one wall there are rows and rows (and rows) of charts. A member of my group walked over to the dozens of managers trying to absorb all the useless drivel on these charts and made the comment (jokingly) "What you guys need is a chart to track all these charts". They looked at him like he was Newton discovering gravity. "You're right", they said, "We need a chart to track all the charts..."

Sad.

Mike Bair, disgraced moron, a fellow who never made or did anything, was put in charge of something he had no experience at: Putting out a product. This is why the 787 program is in deep ca-ca.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: When you want to buy a product or service, do you go to the guy who has done it literally thousands of times, or do you go to the guy who has never done it, but did read a book on the theory of how to do it?

I'm willing to pay a little more and get it DONE RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. BA is managed today, not by folks who rose through the ranks after having spent years designing and building, but by folks who read a book (or 3) and make really, really pretty charts.

Posted by: cmiklich on November 2, 2007 09:19 AM
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