September 23, 2007
MoveOn.org still the topic

The Seattle Times editorialized today against the "childish ad hominem attacks on a general" from a group that "embarrassed itself and its position on the war with an over-the-top and unnecessary attack." This from an editorial page that currently finds itself in general agreement with MoveOn.org's policy goals on Iraq.

Meanwhile, the P-I carries an "Analysis" column from the AP on the stalled momentum of the anti-war movement. Such news "analysis" columns from major media outlets like the AP, the New York Times, or the Washington Post are invariably a look into the conventional wisdom on a given issue. On the topic of MoveOn.org it says:

Another factor in GOP unity, party officials say, was the advertisement in the New York Times, paid for by the liberal activist group MoveOn.org. The full-page ad -- which taunted Petraeus as "General Betray Us" and accused him of distorting the facts of the war -- served as a rallying point for Republicans.

Even with several GOP members wanting troops out faster than Petraeus recommended, the ad helped Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell drive home his point: Voting to bring troops home was a vote against a popular and seasoned uniformed officer.

It's all a reminder that a group who preached "moderation and restraint" immediately after the attacks of 9/11 may not always have the best political - or policy - instincts.

Posted by Eric Earling at September 23, 2007 10:40 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Ha ha ha, MoveOn.org has to pay full price, now that a Federal Elections Commission complaint has been filed (by the American Conservative Union) about a soft-money donation by the New York Times company to a PAC...heh.

Link to PR Newswire

Posted by: cryptometaphor on September 23, 2007 10:54 PM
2. I didn't know the Times was capable of actually printing a column like this, actually labelling their liberal friends at moveon.org as the childish thugs that they tried to be with the lame Petraeus ad. Thumbs up to the Times, but i'm STILL not subscribing.

patty Murray, would you finally like to come out against your friends at moveon and come into the world of grownups by acknowledging what a mistake it was for your leftist moveon friends to do such a disgusting thing?? Moveon has forever discredited itself.

Posted by: Michele on September 23, 2007 11:15 PM
3. ..and btw, the whole "Betray Us" is so completely stupid. After all, I think it's pretty clear based on his honorable service to his country that he's more loyal to the U.S. than moveon and Patty Murray ever would be. At least he hasn't suggested "restraint" against terrorist thugs, or praised Osama bin Laden for building islamic "daycare centers"!!!

Posted by: Michele on September 23, 2007 11:19 PM
4. Exactly as I had hoped. This one cost the Democrats. And they'll do other stupid stuff before the 2008 Election as well, because they incapable of conducting a rational and decent discussion. For a local example, head to HorsesAss. The comments are filled with profanity, heck the blog posts are filled with profanity. And there's a range-against-the-machine echo chamber at HA, and a DKos and the rest of the Nutter Left blogs that helps foment the MoveOn.org over-the-top stupidity.

For most it's pretty unthinkable that any one would actually allow such an ad to be placed. Most would filter such a blatant and highly visible attack, even if that's how they felt. But oh no. Not the Nutroots Left. They'll say anything and do anything.

American needs to come to know that face of Progressives today. These are not moderate people who are open to debate. These are the people that are screaming in the ears of mourners at Ground Zero on any given September 11th, and for that matter, any given day, preaching the "Truth." These are the people that you find burning flags, and effigies of Bush, defacing the Vietnam War Memorial in DC, etc.

It's an in your face attitude, and is as much about how much they can get away with as it is about advancing their socialist and Marxist goals.

The MoveOn.org ad shines light on the face of today's left.

Posted by: Jeff B. on September 23, 2007 11:39 PM
5. Not one fact in the ad has been shown to be untrue, so the detractors try to kill the messenger. The general in question crossed the clear bright line that separates a democracy from authoritarian rule: he used his position and uniform for political purposes to do the bidding of an administration that has repeatedly lied to the American people. Using the benchmarks set up by the Bush administration, every report from the GAO to the Pentagon concludes that our troops are in a sectarian civil war quagmire, with nearly 3,800 dead and 27,000 wounded to date. Add to that the up to 500,000 Iraqis, mostly civilians, killed and wounded to date.
The debate ought to be about supporting the troops and ending this nightmare of a war that has morally and financially bankrupted our country. While the drivel continues about an ad and a group trying to end the carnage, billions (over 500 to date) of our hard earned tax dollars and the blood of fathers, mothers, sons and daughters continue to flow. Have you no decency?

Posted by: liberty1776 on September 24, 2007 04:28 AM
6. After watching the one hour special on Fox News over the weekend on Petraeus, I would follow Petraeus to the ends of the earth. And I don't say that about anyone.

This man, and again, I don't use that word with respect very often, is a credit to this country. Any poster on this site better recognize that (in writing) when they rant and rave against Rs or D that support the mission we are trying to accomplish.

I have liked the discussions with our own Cato, Bruce and dinesh, but until they repudiate the moveOn ad in writing, there is no room for discussion on other issues.

Posted by: swatter on September 24, 2007 06:55 AM
7. I still don't approve of the post-invasion handling of Iraq - however Moveon.org has to be crushed.

Posted by: Liberal_Crusher on September 24, 2007 07:10 AM
8. Not one fact in the ad has been shown to be untrue

Not one assertion by the terrorist lovers at MoveOn.Org has proven to be a "Fact". Are you honoring your political partner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad today?

Posted by: swassociates on September 24, 2007 07:18 AM
9. Have you no decency?

As defined by the likes of you? No, and damn proud of it!

Posted by: cliff on September 24, 2007 07:34 AM
10. liberty1776 - prove me this figure of 500K dead Iraqis. As usual your sources are to be found on the leftiest fringes.

Posted by: Liberal_Crusher on September 24, 2007 07:41 AM
11. One thing that is not brought up often is that hoose who called themselves "progressive" were amongst the biggest backers of National Socialism in Germany in the 1930's. They were also Stalin's number one defenders. For those who were educated in public schools, you may want to do a web search on Walter Duranty of the New York Times. At the one link I am incluiding you will fiind this gem. "For well over a decade, Duranty's influential reports from Moscow described a Soviet Union run by a tough, but dedicated, elite, who could, he conceded, be cruel, but only in the cause of improving the lives of the people. As the Times man liked to say, "you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs." http://www.nationalreview.com/contributors/stuttaford051501.shtml

Need I continue.

Posted by: JDH on September 24, 2007 08:13 AM
12. Good job, JDH. I figured it would be you who could provide the NEXUS between Hitler and the Progressives aka Democrats. And they thought Bush = Hilter. I didn't think so; Thanks again.

Posted by: swatter on September 24, 2007 09:59 AM
13. If I'm looking for loyalty and not betrayal, I'd rather be in a foxhole with Petraeus instead of Patty Murray and the adolescents at moveon.org anytime.

Posted by: Michele on September 24, 2007 12:07 PM
14. "Ha ha ha, MoveOn.org has to pay full price"

Yeah, great, and no one else can insist on the same rate from the New York Times. Wonder how many requests they've received that they can now deny? Given that MoveOn functions with dollars donated from Democrat supporters, is another $80,000 all that much if it prevents the Times from being pressured to offer equal time like they did Rudy? Sounds more to me like closing a loophole at the Times. Who knows, the Times have have figured a way to funnel the money to MoveOn to pay the difference itself. And if MoveOn agreed to pay the difference, they must have been presented with a truly convincing argument.

Posted by: JoeBlow on September 24, 2007 12:51 PM
15. Patty Murray? Does she even know what positions she takes? I mean no rebuking Moveon?

wait, she is waiting for that call from the DNC/Emily's List...

Posted by: righton on September 24, 2007 01:42 PM
16. Just been reading that latest Democratic stooge with BDS (one of the retired generals) only has the highest praise for Petraeus to the chagrin of Maher and Darcy Burner.

Posted by: swatter on September 24, 2007 02:05 PM
17. Swatter argues, "I have liked the discussions with our own Cato, Bruce and dinesh, but until they repudiate the moveOn ad in writing, there is no room for discussion on other issues."

Hi Swatter- Why should I repudiate an ad that I had nothing to do with? Furthermore, I think General Petraeus, while apparently a bright and competent military leader, has inappropriately tried to capitalize on his military skill by venturing into politics. I wouldn't have thought to use the word "betray" to describe his behavior, but his political statements have served the country poorly, and in that sense of the word he has betrayed us.

In any case, it's hilarious to see conservatives, who tried to label people like John Kerry and Max Cleland as traitors, getting all upset over this ad. I suppose it will energize the right (which has little to be excited about these days), energize the left (the ad has brought record donations to MoveOn), and leave the middle where they were before, unhappy with the war.

Posted by: Bruce on September 24, 2007 02:55 PM
18. Do you or do you not agree with the ad? You say you do and yet you do not give evidence how he served the country poorly. He is a great man; I will give you permission to go against Bush or the war, but unless the guy called for immediate troop withdrawal, your side would have called him a traitor.

And one of your own doesn't even want to call him anything except a great man and a great soldier (see 16 above).

And what should the guy have said? He is a soldier and reported what he saw; it is up to your Democratic Congress to do politics. I would be surprised if Petraeus didn't hop the first flight and go back to his men. He didn't want to be in DC.

So, he betrayed the left or the US? You can at least answer that one without a Bruceism?

Posted by: swatter on September 24, 2007 03:20 PM
19. I am a member of MOVE ON and since the ad came out our membership has grown by millions. You neo cons have no right to call anyone anything. Baby bush has done nothing but lie, to get us into war, about winning the war,(MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, May 1, 2001), renditions, torture, spying, wiretapping, and signing statements. All you neo con christians with your right to life, all life is sacred, until that person doesn't pray to your god, or doesn't agree with your message of hate, or doesn't vote for your brand of fascism, then KILL them, those lees than humans. You people are the biggest haters since the KKK which you probably are a member and leader. Our country has spent the last six years being run into the ground by your religious fanatical right wing. Liberal crusher, your kind has made us strong.

Posted by: bill meyers on September 24, 2007 03:35 PM
20. Bruce, I recognize you aren't anything like the above poster, but is that the message you want to give me?

Posted by: swatter on September 24, 2007 03:39 PM
21. Swatter, thank you for offering, but I don't need your "permission" to speak against Bush, the war, Petraeus, or anything else. This is a free country.

You say Petraeus "is a soldier and reported what he saw." No, he's a general and he reported what his political bosses needed to get re-elected. Just before the 2004 election, he wrote an op-ed piece for the Washington Post saying there had been "tangible progress" in Iraq and "momentum has gathered in recent months". I think that was more politically motivated than just reporting what he saw. But of course it's possible he thought he was telling the truth. In any case, his comments have served the country poorly.

Hey, General Petraeus is not the main problem in Iraq. But nor is he a hero.

Posted by: Bruce on September 24, 2007 03:41 PM
22. bill m, so you're saying that only Moveon.org has a right to call names (betrayer, etc)?

Could you explain what the christian "message of hate" is?

Are all of Moveon's actions above reproach, in your mind?

Posted by: Michele on September 24, 2007 03:58 PM
23. You are right; you don't need my permission. However, it was my respect for you and your views that would suffer. And I have had a lot of respect for your comments.

Your comments at 21 were well stated; I just don't have to agree to them.

The 2004 memo has been brought up. I just can't remember if that was on the Fox News program or not.

There is just too much data coming out of Iraq now that would contradict his main point in the report- things are better in certain spots in Iraq due to the surge. Knowing what I know now of the main report, he also was clear on what wasn't going so well. In other words, his report had 'red meat' for all sides.

So, I just don't understand the vitriole against a great man who, while he supports the CIC, he has not painted a rosy picture. Go after Bush or the war, but not this man- this solder; support the troops?

Posted by: swatter on September 24, 2007 03:59 PM
24. ps--bill m, I'm not aware of anyone here having a membership in the KKK, but Democrat Senator Robert Byrd was previously a bigshot in that particular hate organization. Are you supportive of his membership in the DNC?

Posted by: Michele on September 24, 2007 04:00 PM
25. Bill Meyer says Moveon.org membership has swollen "by millions" since the ad came out.

Am I the only one that very seriously disbelieves that?

It sounds like total sour grapes to me.

Posted by: johnny on September 24, 2007 04:10 PM
26. Why johnny I am shocked, shocked that you'd believe that someone on the left might have lied!

Posted by: Bill Cruchon on September 24, 2007 04:22 PM
27. Bill Meyers says: "All you neo con christians with your right to life, all life is sacred,"
_____________________________________
Sorry you disagree with the Christian notion that all life is sacred. I thought you guys felt the fetus was not yet a living person with rights; but if your position is that life is not sacred, I guess I hope I never meet you. You might kill me since I tend to disagree with you and you apparently have no moral compass against killing.

Posted by: KW64 on September 24, 2007 04:37 PM
28. I am a member of MOVE ON and since the ad came out our membership has grown by millions...

...to just over 3 million people. So what exactly was it's membership size before the ad? 74? You do realize how ridicules you look by fabricating such obvious lies, don't you?

Posted by: Mike H on September 24, 2007 05:17 PM
29. You neo cons have no right to call anyone anything.

I have the right to call you anything I want and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Though, I would be more than happy to give you the opportunity to try. Bring some of that hate, boy.

Instead of stereotyping all of us neo-con, fascist, Bible-thumping pro-lifers as one, you might want to recognize some of us are good ol' boys who don't much go to church, have no problem tipping back a few beers and are patiently waiting for the day of your vaunted, long-promised revolution.

BTW, you little toad. The Mission Accomplished incident that puts chuds like you into orbit happened in May of 2003.

Posted by: jimg on September 24, 2007 05:24 PM
30. Well well. I can see the usual left-wing retards are infesting Soundpolitics. They need to be smacked down and put back in their place - which is the underside of rocks. Like the bugs they are.

Posted by: Liberal_Crusher on September 24, 2007 07:15 PM
31. Do these left wing twits even know what a neocon is?

I doubt it. They just parrot the official party line.

Doing their own thinking is just soo harrd!

Posted by: deadwood on September 24, 2007 07:22 PM
32. For some reason my previous left wing crushing post was not posted.

Posted by: Liberal_Crusher on September 24, 2007 07:43 PM
33. Bill @19

I almost forgot to ask.

Whose brand of fascism do you prefer?

Posted by: deadwood on September 24, 2007 07:56 PM
34. Bill at #19 There are over 4 million in the NRA. That means that 1 million members will not get a "Liberal" to chomp on this next election.You people?? are lower then whale $hit and its at the bottom of the ocean.

Posted by: George A. Smith on September 24, 2007 08:17 PM
35. Rasmussen Reports Poll: 39% of the electorate, at most, somewhat disapprove of the MoveOn ad and 42 percent disapprove. Have things gotten THIS bad for the GOP that they consider something that tepid to be a major issue? Compared to the Iraq War, lack of healthcare, education coming undone, the banks about to implode, thousands losing jobs, millions of people losing their homes, and the 'Loyal Bushies' making ready to start and lose a THIRD war ... and Republicans want to waste the nation's time on an ad that most people either have no opinion on or, at most, somewhat disapprove? OK ... as a non-Republican, can I encourage you to continue with the MoveOn obsession. I'm sure it'll be big winner for the GOP ... err ... like the Schiavo thing was.

Posted by: A. Alexander on September 24, 2007 09:09 PM
36. A. Alexander,

THIRD war? What, pray tell, were the first two?

And you're being selective with the poll results. 4 to 1 say MoveOn hurts their causes. Only 35% of Democrats have a favorable opinion of MoveOn.

MoveOn is really just a fringe group. Seriously.

Oh, and Bill? That's really gotta sting...;)

Posted by: Edmonds Dan on September 24, 2007 09:23 PM
37. "Have things gotten THIS bad for the GOP...."

No, A. Alexander, they haven't. When the Rs had congress, they didn't sport an all-time low 11% approval rating.

Posted by: Michele on September 24, 2007 09:23 PM
38. It's good to see ole bruce @ 18 being his usual self. Occupation fool.
When Kerry and Cleland were insulted by the right for their doings, it was when they used their "military experience" to try to convince the world they were experts in todays military. But it's awful tacky to use your Purple Heart medal to say "you must listen to me". And for a guy like Kerry with self inflicted wounds to do that is the ultimate insult to the military.
General P wasn't beating his chest of ribbons to say he must be listened to.
And it does make me wonder why bafoons like Kerry or Murtha sit back and whine about our military not knowing what they're doing, not having enough training, not having enough equipment yet their answer is to cut the money.
I know you and your ilk long for the days of Clinton being the CIC and a good quick war is Mogadishu where you get 18 soldiers killed in a day and run away. Get out your Cap'n Crunch calculator and do the math of a war fought the Clinton way...18 X 365 = 6570. If it kept going for 4 years, we'd need a draft.
I'd like to see the Move on folks and the Murtha's of congress be forced to sit down and listen to the G.I.s (that are re-upping at a 150% over goal rate), tell how they believe in the mission and just wish the dems would get out of the way and shut up.

Posted by: PC on September 24, 2007 10:13 PM
39. Looks like ol Bill M hasn't come back.

Posted by: Michele on September 24, 2007 11:23 PM
40. ..guess he doesn't want to answer my question about Robert Byrd....

Posted by: Michele on September 24, 2007 11:45 PM
41. I think he did a google search, got this article, posted and then disappeared.

If the moveon ad was tepid and the condemnation was so over the top, why did the Dems use the condemnation of said ad when they said they were now going to have to fund the war for another six months or more? Just asking.

If moveon's ranks are swelling so much, why ...see above.

Bruce, I got to thinking a little about that Petraeus 2004 memo. I haven't gotten too far into the research, but I have a couple of comments. When Petraeus was unanimously annointed by the Congress and when he went back to Iraq armed with his new terrorism manual, I figured just the opposite of you. I thought he would come back and say, "let's get out of here, pronto". And that was entirely based upon the press and the kudos the left heaped on him.

During the time there, I heard he was a straight shooter, 'if anyone can pull this off (i.e. making the 'surge' work)', he could. That included those with BDS making those statements since they were so sure the surge would fail. Harry Reid announced it had failed two months before the report came out.

And now with all the vitriole, I read his military history and am totally impressed. Haven't you thought it through more?

Posted by: swatter on September 25, 2007 06:54 AM
42. MoveOn and others of their ilk are the types to infiltrate during events such as the WTO fiasco years ago. Recall how anti-American they all were in the tearing down of the flag. It took another who also disagreed with the WTO politic to stand up to them and save tjhe flag. I would implore men and women like that to reconsider McDermott and Murray at their next opportunity. It is one thing to disagree, it is quite another to change sides.

Posted by: parfait4congress2008 on September 25, 2007 10:55 AM
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