September 23, 2007
The Power of Polls

Related to the influence of the internet discussed below on the main page, some consideration on the power of polls in the fluid race for the Republican Presidential nomination is in order. Because, let's be honest, we in the blogosphere look at and talk about them. Mark Blumenthal at pollster.com recently asked: Are Primary Polls Meaningful? It's a fair question given the argument he presents, though probably the best take away is they mean something, just not as much as we often give them credit for.

The bigger issue in a race that started so early may well be avoiding getting too caught up in the daily machinations of the horserace, as Patrick Ruffini recently warned against. Wading into the weeds of the polls themselves shows some specific reasons to be so wary.

Take a look at the pollster.com national poll trend lines. Notice in particular the details of the polls themselves in the table below the chart (which excludes Rasmussen). Of the last ten pollsters in the field, two surveyed "likely voters," six surveyed "registered voters," and two surveyed "adults. " Bluntly, those are mostly atrocious samples given that it will be "likely primary voters" that will actually settle things as the state-by-state nomination contest unfolds (consider that only about 10% of adults actually vote in Presidential primaries). Dig into the questions of the polls themselves and you routinely find roughly half of Republican voters declaring themselves as not having enough information to have an opinion about Mitt Romney or Fred Thompson. That is hardly a sign of an engaged electorate out amongst the masses.

Compare the pollster.com results to the daily Rasmussen tracking numbers. Notice now that Fred Thompson's post-announcement bump has subsided, things are back to where they've been since the daily tracking numbers started in July: Thompson & Rudy Giuliani lumped around 1st in the mid- 20's, while Romney & John McCain fluctuate in a statistical tie for third in the mid-to-low teens. Note Rasmussen's voter screen is much tighter than almost all the other pollsters in action. Granted, Rasmussen's poll is still a national survey when we don't have a national primary, but the difference between the results of his tight voter screen - more aligned to actual likely primary voters - and those of other pollsters is significant.

John Hinderaker at much-read Powerline recently used national poll results as part of some questions he posed about Mitt Romney's standing with the Republican electorate. Hinderaker actually makes some fair points about Romney's warmness. Romney has many strengths, but he doesn't appear to have the ability to connect on a personal level as well as, say, Rudy Giuliani or Bill Clinton. But given the discussion of the importance of national polls above, is it really prudent to draw deep, determinative conclusions about how any candidate is faring with the electorate based on national polls? Such samples can't even say with certainty that Rudy Giuliani is pro-choice. Whatever ones position on abortion, if you don't know that basic fact, you're not following the race with any seriousness. Thus, making assumptions about how well Romney is selling with the national electorate makes about as much sense as making assumptions about whether or not Giuliani's social positions will eventually sink him as a potential nominee or whether Fred Thompson's support is durable. The information at hand from national polls simply isn't instructive for that sort of in-depth analysis.

This writer is as guilty as any in sometimes getting too caught up in the latest twist and turns of the horserace. Yet in weighing all the evidence, including the links provided above, it just seems wildly imprudent to jump to conclusions about any candidate based simply on national polls right now. Such surveys are interesting, movements in them give us an idea of race momentum, and sometimes they're the only way to quantify the race at this point. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep them in perspective. We junkies seeking out the latest political news are fully aware of the candidates and the latest events from the campaign trail. The typical American getting surveyed in most national polls isn't.

Posted by Eric Earling at September 23, 2007 05:13 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Considering how few Americans could find Lousiana on a map after Katrina, why would anyone poll these people? (Better yet, ask Americans to show you on a world map where Iraq is.) I cannot imagine the Founding Fathers could ever have envisioned a country this great habitated by swarms of clueless idiots who know nothing about where they live, our government or even who they are voting for. (Remember Florida?) Elections are being decided by randomless thought.

Posted by: Doc-T on September 23, 2007 06:10 PM
2. why don't you ron paul nuts get a life. the only thing rudy want to do is protect us. if you whackos have your way and ron paul gets elected we will have to follow that god danm peice of paper the constitution. i don't know about you but i like the government having complete control over me and my family. could you image an america that is truely a capitalist society (paying no taxes), that did not police the world or did not sacrafice liberty for security? please you ron paul nutjobs stop messing with the best thing to happen to the republican party since the bush's. go rudy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: keith on September 23, 2007 06:33 PM
3. Keith: sarcasm is a bit hackneyed in general, but on the internet in particular.

You do, however, illustrate some of the more extreme and irrational positions of the RP internet kids. The first is that Ron Paul (and ONLY Ron Paul!) supports the constitution (wahtever that means). Everyone else wants to use it as toilet paper, I guess? The second is that the government has "complete control" over you and your family. Really? Wow. My advice would be to lose the myopia, get some perspective, lose the hate, and relax.

Posted by: AD on September 23, 2007 07:02 PM
4. This is an interesting question. Polls are simply a snapshot at a point in time. Whether they mean anything depends on how honestly they were put together. Is it a push poll question. How were the questions written, how was the sample selected and is it a representative sample. I think a lot of the media polls have one result, to get Hillary into office. A lot of the New York/Georgetown axis, who always threaten to leave the country if a conservative gets elected, but never do, are paying big bucks to influence public opinion. Anyone who regularly watches Leno's Jaywalking segment knows that many voters are trully ignorant. Since most of us don't get a peak at the crosstabs or methodology, we get what we paid for the poll, which is nothing.

Posted by: WVH on September 23, 2007 07:39 PM
5. Check out the new hit piece on Fred Thompson, including a few things the media never talks about. To read it go to thirdrailradio.blogspot.com

Posted by: Chuck on September 24, 2007 08:44 AM
6. But, Chuck, that is you. I am not going there.

Posted by: swatter on September 24, 2007 10:03 AM
7. As I have posted before, Rudy needs to expand the primary turnout if he wants to win. The Rasmussen "likely primary voters" are not where he polls well. The question is how he gets a primary turnout that makes the voters reflect the "general election likely voters".

A widely contested race closely covered by the press may do it; but right now it seems the coverage all goes to the Democratic primary. Maybe it will shift focus if Hillary starts to look like a lock but the MSM only covers Republican gaffes. Has anyone seen Rudy's 12 committments in a newspaper, a magazine, on TV? However, Hillary's health care plan rivaled the 2nd coming as a news event.

Posted by: KW64 on September 24, 2007 04:59 PM
8. Mark Blumenthal at Pollster.com (linked above) appears to agree with an LA times op-ed that says:

"the more we measure how the candidates stand now, the less we may know about where things are going to end up - because the measurement itself can render the findings inaccurate."

In other words, polls affect the outcome of elections. The author makes the direct analogy with the Heizenburg Uncertainty Principle, which is the idea that observation affects the thing being observed.

One of the most powerful ways to affect the outcome is to frame the debate in ways that exclude certain topics. Perhaps this is why none of the polls on pollster.com included Ron Paul. I think that he has been excluded from polls unfairly.

Regarding AD's point @3 about the Constitution, it is clear that Ron Paul takes the Constitution MUCH more seriously than all the other candidates. If adherance to one's oath of office, to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, is most important to you in a candidate, then Ron Paul is the best choice.

No, the government does not (yet) exercise complete control over me, but it is controlling and observing more and more of my life all the time, and this concerns me. The Real ID act, the USA PATRIOT Act, the Military Commissions act that eliminated the right of habeas corpus, the National Animal ID Act, the RFID passport... All these things are chilling to liberty. Via the PATRIOT Act, the federal government gets notified whenever you make a big withdrawal from your bank account. Don't you think this can be used against you in a tax case? Where is the warrant? Where is the probable cause?

And don't give me that crap about "I'm happy to give up my privacy if they can catch some terrorists." You have every right to give up YOUR privacy for a little temporary security, but you have no right to sacrifice my, or anyone elses rights. That's why we live in a republic, not a democracy.

The federal government is becoming exactly the thing the founders of our country tried to prevent. Our government is acting like the British soldiers who occupied the colonies and harrassed the colonists. The stamp act served as an excuse for British soldiers to barge in to people's houses with self-written warrents. We have a very similar situation to that now in the US.

Wake up, folks. We are headed down the wrong path. Old Ben was right. "Those who would sacrifice essential liberty, for a little temporary security deserve neither." The terrorists don't scare me. They shouldn't scare you either. Liberty requires bravery. Get some.

Vote Ron Paul, to restore Liberty AND security.

Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on September 24, 2007 06:14 PM
9. One interesting statistic which is absolutely fascinating and that virtually no one can deny. A study of polls and statistics proved beyond the shadow of doubt that 86.735% of ALL statistics are made up. Ok, you got me. I made that up.

Posted by: parfait4congress2008 on September 25, 2007 10:37 AM
10. Doc-T said: "Considering how few Americans could find Lousiana on a map after Katrina, why would anyone poll these people?"

Because they vote.

What kind of thought is "randomless thought"?

You look a little silly trying to slight the popular intellect with pompous malapropisms. And while few could find *Louisiana* on a map, perhaps more could spell it correctly.

Posted by: Maggie Leber on September 26, 2007 12:41 PM
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