August 26, 2007
Liberals Still Don't Understand Faith
For a case study in how the secular, liberal base of the Democratic Party still doesn't understand religion in America, digest this column from Bonnie Erbe on today's P-I editorial page. Erbe is flummoxed at leading Democratic candidates for the Presidency discussing their own faith publicly, as if this is some sort of sop to the "religious right." Not exactly.
For one, neither Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, nor Barack Obama will soon be viewed as pandering to the policy preferences of conservative Christians. But Americans of faith go way beyond merely that subset of the populace.
Roughly 80% of the American populace continues to identify itself as Christian. While obviously not all self-identified Christians, or members of other faiths for that matter, attend a house of worship regularly, the startling vote gap between those attending services weekly in 2004 was a wake up call for Democrats.
The 2004 exit poll showed such voters broke for President Bush 61% - 39% over John Kerry, and made up 41% of the electorate. That is too large a gap in too significant a portion of the voting populace for Democrats to ignore.
Not surprisingly, Democrats fought back in 2006, running more moderate candidates in competitive races, and regaining ground in the face of assorted Republican weaknesses. 2006 exit polling showed weekly attendees at a house of worship made up a hefty 45% of voters, but split toward Republicans only 55% - 43%.
Leading Democrats for President aren't stupid. They know if 2008 is fought with the same "God gap" as 2004 they're at a serious disadvantage. Democrats writ large seem to have done so in 2006, but can't afford to rest on their laurels given polling that continues to show most Americans don't view the Democratic party as "friendly" toward religion.
Consequently, the willingness of candidates to discuss their own personal faith and views on prayer should be no surprise. It's a reality of American life. It also doesn't mean Democrats are drifting toward viewing public policy strictly through the lens of personal faith as Erbe believes Republicans currently do. Bluntly, there is a profound difference between a belief that God has a purpose for one's life and having a sense of personal peace because of one's faith versus the notion that the collection of one's policy choices and preferences are "sanctioned by God." Neither the current President nor those that wish to succeed him seem to have made that error.
3:40 UPDATE: Some commenters seem interested in wading off topic into Stefan's recent online disagreement with a guest-blogging waitress. Take that up with Stefan if you must. Future off topic comments in this thread will be deleted. And for reference to some of the commenters interested in conjoining this post with that issue with Stefan, I believe he would describe himself as either a secular or non-religious Jew, though I could be wrong about that. Either way, it's irrelevant to this post.
Posted by Eric Earling at August 26, 2007
02:21 PM | Email This
1. So do religious people get their jollies by beating up waitresses?
2. No, Stooge.
But some religious people lead civil rights movements that transform America and honor the cause of nonviolent protest.
3. Actually I was somewhat amused by her praise for Richardson's statement. Apparently faith informing one's moral sense is OK for a Democrat, but not for a Republican?
4. Sorry for the mispost - 'End of Story' doesn't allow for comments:
Doesn't it seem odd that Stefan Sharkansky's response to some waitress saying that he's a bad customer is to try to systematically destroy her life? I'll take What-Would-Jesus-Not-Do for a thousand, Alex.
5. Here is another topic where I do not agree with the neo cons.
According to the neo cons, Because I do not believe in religion,I am a communist.
My economic theories and beliefs do not matter.
As long as I do not believe in religion, it is assumed I don't want to buy and sell,or own,and I am automaticaly a communist.
I must have missed 60 minutes when that show was on covering that topic..
This is why the neo conservative platform gets beat so badly in washington.
They make blanket statements that are simply not true.
They take a simple formula of marksism=no religion=communist,and apply it across the board.
I see these neo conservative holy rollers on paid programming spouting out the claim that if you do not believe in religion,then you are a communist,and it makes me want to puke.
I am sure somewhere in the bible belt or the deep south someone believes that crap,but I don't buy it.
That is why year in year out the R's get beat here.
People here are too smart to fall for the delusional statements that the neo con idiots make.
6. She has clearly submitted to her BDS and Hate Conservative Disease in her wild assumptions about politicians and voters of faith.
Ignoring even that, her delusions would be well served by studying the founding fathers and the founding documents:
According to Chuck Norris (yes, that Chuck Norris)
“A study by the American Political Science Review on the political documents of the founding era (1760-1805), [reported] that 94 percent of the period’s documents were based on the Bible, with 34 percent of the contents being direct citations from the Bible. The Scripture was the bedrock and blueprint of our Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, academic arenas and heritage until the last quarter of a century.”
What did our Founders have to say about the Bible?
“The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God... Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.” —John Jay (1784)
“Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man towards God.” —Gouverneur Morris (1791)
“[W]here is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation deserts the oaths...?” —George Washington (1796)
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” —John Adams (1798)
“[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.” —Benjamin Rush (1806)
"The Patriot Post (PatriotPost.US)"
7. Besides, the REAL reason the dems have suddenly decided to pander harder to voters of faith can be found in an old issue of Newsweek:
God?s Numbers
The latest NEWSWEEK poll shows that 91 percent of American adults surveyed believe in God?and nearly half reject the theory of evolution. Also, Americans on John Edwards and the Senate's goal for troop withdrawal
By Brian Braiker
Newsweek
Updated: 3:04 p.m. ET March 31, 2007
March 30, 2007 - A belief in God and an identification with an organized religion are widespread throughout the country, according to the latest NEWSWEEK poll. Nine in 10 (91 percent) of American adults say they believe in God and almost as many (87 percent) say they identify with a specific religion. Christians far outnumber members of any other faith in the country, with 82 percent of the poll?s respondents identifying themselves as such. Another 5 percent say they follow a non-Christian faith, such as Judaism or Islam. Nearly half (48 percent) of the public rejects the scientific theory of evolution; one-third (34 percent) of college graduates say they accept the Biblical account of creation as fact. Seventy-three percent of Evangelical Protestants say they believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years; 39 percent of non-Evangelical Protestants and 41 percent of Catholics agree with that view.
Although one in ten (10 percent) of Americans identify themselves as having "no religion," only six percent said they don?t believe in a God at all. Just 3 percent of the public self-identifies as atheist, suggesting that the term may carry some stigma. Still, the poll suggests that the public?s tolerance of this small minority has increased in recent years. Nearly half (47 percent) of the respondents felt the country is more accepting of atheists today that it used to be and slightly more (49 percent) reported personally knowing an atheist. Those numbers are higher among respondents under 30 years old, 62 percent of whom report knowing an atheist (compared to just 43 percent of those 50 and older). Sixty-one percent of the under-30 cohort view society as more accepting of atheists (compared to 40 percent of the Americans 50 and older).
8. What I find odd is that some self professed Secular Atheist thinks that they are immune from response when they attack someone's family. I'd say "you reap what you sow" but that might get a little to preachy for those sensitive waitresses.
9. Dear "Moelarryandjesus", This is what you "enlightened" "progressive" people do so constantly.
If you are going to make accusations have some facts to back them up. Otherwise I think it is safe to assume that you are just another anonymous, cowardly, liberal piece of garbage.
10. Oh, and while I'm at it "publicbulldog" at #5. Give me one, just one fact to back up what you are saying. A quote from some "neocons" to bolster your absurd statements.
Give us some real substance, instead of your left wing delusional nonsense.
11. So do religious people get their jollies by beating up waitresses?
Doesn't it seem odd that Stefan Sharkansky's response to some waitress saying that he's a bad customer is to try to systematically destroy her life? I'll take What-Would-Jesus-Not-Do for a thousand, Alex.
1) Can someone point out where Stefan has ever written professing to be a Christian? Maybe he is, but I've never seen him write about it, and I think I've seen him write about him simply being a non-religious Jew (I could be wrong).
2) Even if he was, please tell me where in the Bible it is written that he can't defend his wife and child from someone who is lying about them? He didn't write nasty things about them, call them names, or anything like that. All he did was say who this person was, what she lied about, and that he had repeatedly and politely asked her to remove those lies. He then linked to all of this, as well as posted things she wrote. The woman even admitted she made it all up. And when she apologized, he took down the posts saying he was doing it because she apologized.
Sorry, but calling someone out who is publicly slandering your family maliciously is hardly an un-Christian thing to do, and definitely doesn't rise to the level of "beating up" some "poor waitress".
Some of you people really need to grow up.
12. You're a real piece of work. Nice to know how hypocritical neocons are. Go die in a fire, soulless cuntrag.
- A REAL REPUBLICan
13. Ragnar, so what. Appeals to authority are a classic logical fallacy. The Founders also believed in slavery. If we are to beleive things just becasue they did then we should support slavery. Arguements are true or false based on evidence, reason, etc, not based on who holds the arguement.
Eric, I could equally argue that the Republicans don't understand the non-church going. Those who attend church monthly or less broke for John Kerry by about the same margin as those that go weekly or more and actually make up 1% more of the electorate. While there was a post-9/11 church bump overall trends in this Country are toward less church going. If anything the Dems are on the right side of this trend.
That being said I could care less the religion of a candidate, or if they have no religion at all. I care about there policy positions. I won't vote for an anti-choice or anti-gay rights candidate whether they come to those positions becasue of religion or some other belief system. Likewise I support people working to aid the poor whether they do so for God or humanism.
14. You're a real piece of work. Nice to know how hypocritical neocons are. Go die in a fire, soulless cuntrag.
Such kind, caring words...
15. The P-I column seems clear enough, Eric. It's not wondering why candidates (or voters) are religious. It's wondering why candidates -- for political office, not religious office -- are talking about religion more than in the past 60+ years. Many Americans, including many religious leaders, think religion should be kept private and separate from politics. Obviously, you disagree.
16. Wow, picking on a waitress. Getting her fired at one job, threatening to cause trouble at another...
Isn't it bad enough that you're a cheap tipper?
How do you sleep at night? (Probably on 500 thread count sheets)
17. This is what you get when you attempt to engage "progressives" in "dialogue",(one of their favorite phoney words): #12, "You're a real piece of work. Nice to know how hypocritical neocons are. Go die in a fire, soulless cuntrag."
These are not nice people.
18. @10
Once again another Neo con assumes that I am on the left wing.
I am a fiscal conservative that is tired of the lack of checks and balances in Washington State.
There is a book on sale right now on the religion channels that makes the claim that everyone that does not believe in religion is a communist...
That means no owning,No buying,no selling,No individual thoughts.
It also disputes darwins evolution theory.
I am the son of god and a monkey.
God must have been real horny..
You can go ahead and doubt that the book does not make that claim,I am watching the channel again,and it is a matter of time before they peddle it again.
You should not doubt that such abook exist considering how many books and claims there are out there on both sides of the argument.
Funny how when I attack the D's from a transportation or small businees standpoint I am immune from such attacks.
I know the R's do not represent me,But that does not mean that the D's do either.
I concede that the R's are more representative of the Neo Cons right now.
That is why they are getting there A$$ kicked up here regularly.
One day perhaps the R's will wake up and unite the Fiscal conservatives.
On that day the R's will finaly provide our state with some checks and balances.
Until then have fun gathering signatures at the river.
19. Bruce says at #15 says, "candidates -- for political office, not religious office -- are talking about religion more than in the past 60+ years."
That's pure bunk. Candidates avoid mentioning religion as if it were the plague. I'm old enough to remember when candidates for office routinely mentioned their faith in god. I don't remember any of them imposing a theocracy on the country. The truth, Bruce, is that you are terrified of religious faith because it might in some way compete with your socialist view of the way things ought to be. Communists understand this. That is why they outlaw religion when they take over. That is why the ACLU, (which by the way was founded by communists), works so hard to wipe out religious faith in this country.
20. BillC, if you knew either me or the definition of "socialist", you wouldn't call me a socialist. But if I were a socialist, I would want religion to be part of public policy, because most religions teach something close to socialism.
21. #18, I ask you for some substance to back up what you say and you proceed to post an incoherent bunch of babble. How do I know you are not a conservative? You have provided ample evidence. You are also a liar. Not an unusual characteristic of those who currently inhabit the political left.
22. Hey Gussy,
Somebody...Anybody takes a verbal shot at your kid and you sit back and do nothing? How about your wife? Your mom? How do you sleep at night?
23. Just in the spirit of fun, Bruce, if you aren't a socialist then what are you? I'm a conservative and not embarrased to say so.
24. Dear Reprcians:
The only reason the Dems are raising this issue this year is that they have a stage full of people who have actually walked the walk, who "look like" the typical religous American as opposed to:
a three time divorcee whose kids hate him
b. a Mormon who wants his religonj reclassified as Christianity.
c. an older guy married to a bimbo
d. a guy who divorced his wife while she wa sin the hospital with Ca and was sleeping with someone else at the time.
oh yeh .. Mccain isa pretty nice guy but he voted worng on SOOO many issues. Yep there is Huckabee ... if you relaly wnat a President who does not believe in science.
As Rove sows, so shall the Dems reap.
25. @21,
Big BABY.. BABY JESUS.
26. Hey "SeattleJew". It's a bit hard to take someone seriously who can't type or spell. Oh but I forgot. Spelling and grammar aren't important to liberals. It's all about how you "feel".
27. You accepted her apology?????????
Shame on you.
NOTHING IN THE WORLD gives you the right to retaliate against a hardworking women like this waitress.
If you think people will forget your ego and self-important attitude, you are so sadly mistaken.
28. You accepted her apology?????????
Shame on you.
NOTHING IN THE WORLD gives you the right to retaliate against a hardworking woman like this waitress.
If you think people will forget your ego and self-important attitude, you are so sadly mistaken.
29. NOW WE GATHER SIGNATURES AT THE RIVER.
THE BEATIFULL BEATIFUL RIVER.
Do what they tell you to,Dont want the devil to,come and put out your eyes.
30. To 'huh?' and mikeh:
Whether or not Sharkansky is Christian, anyone claiming to be a pillar of the community should learn to turn the other cheek, especially in regards to whiny waitresses writing blogs.
Keep in mind this woman is a single mother working two jobs to make ends meet.
It would have been much more professional (let alone mature) of Sharkansky to either ignore the matter or laugh it off ("Like all parents with a five year old child, I have a five year old child that does the same things that any five year old child does"). Instead he searched public records for dirt on her and sent a relative to the restaurant to get her fired (which he did). After she took down the blog entry he threatens to have her fired at her other (non-waitressing) job unless she issues a retraction.
Nobody is saying the waitress should have written that blog but Stefan's response was completely over the top. I expect more from someone influential within the party. Is he really the kind of person we want representing the party of family values?
31. I just love this. Here's the intelligent thoughtful commentary provide by "Publicbulldog" at #25, "Big BABY.. BABY JESUS."
And this commenter accuses me of assuming that he is not a conservative.
I've got news for this dimbulb. I have never met a conservative that would make this kind of dumb post. Not one.
It's so revealing that these people don't even seem to know who they are. Lost out in space perhaps?
32. Antonio at #30. Methinks you have an agenda. Back up your accusations with facts. Your "family values" comment is right out of the left wing playbook.
You people are so predictable.
33. Who in there right mind would sleep with a monkey.
Now a days that violates the washington state beastiality rcw.
LOL.
34. SAVE ME FROM THE PRESBYTERIANS.
I want to die for the State department like a good christian soldier.
35. "Publicbulldog" Put the bong away and go to bed.
36. Put the pitchfork down bill,time to start gatherin signatures on another intiative since thr R's cant do anything in olympia but watch.
What do the R's and Bill's left hand have in common.
They both just watch..
Speaking of watch..How about making yourself usefull and go back to the church and gather some more signatures for our fiscal conservative saviorm Tim Eyman.
Dont forget to hug father nelson from the side,
so you dont stimulate him.
37. Still waiting for Bruce to tell us where on the political spectrum he lives. Marxist?, Trotskyite?, Leninist?, Maoist?, Wobblie?, Owl Party?
Full disclosure, my wife's great grandfather was a Wobblie. Did time in prison for his activities, too.
38. Didn't you say at #18 that you were annoyed that I assumed you were on the left?
You are a lying piece of leftist garbage.
39. And what the hell is a "saviorm"?
Put the bong away, you anonymous coward.
40. Mommy I am scared.
There is a republican under the bed.
41. I have to take your word on that Bill your the "Leftist" expert here.
LoL
You R an agent of intolerance R'ent you RRRRR.
42. I actually believed there were communists under my bed when I was a little kid in the '50's.
Other kids were scared of ghosts and witches, but not me, I was sure the commies were under there.
43. Bill:
It's called google cache
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:oB4REfPlclMJ:soundpolitics.com/archives/009133.html+soundpolitics+sharkansky+waitress&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us
It's the post that Stefan himself wrote and then (wisely) deleted. It's people like you who are willing to run interference for irresponsible people within our own party that saddled us with GW instead of McCain in 2000.
44. You must be a victim of liberal education, "Publicbulldog", you seem to have considerable difficulty with spelling and grammar.
Those scary republicans under your bed might be able to help you out with that.
45. I can see mcCain a coming,he's comming from the rear.
McCain didn't scare enough people in the Bible belt to get the nomination.
In order to get the nomination you have to scare enough states to get it.
46. I can see mcCain a coming,he's comming from the rear.
McCain didn't scare enough people in the Bible belt to get the nomination.
In order to get the nomination you have to scare enough states to get it.
47. Well you are right about one thing Antonio/Gus
"Nobody is saying the waitress should have written that blog" Then you go to use the "great eraser" But...from there on it's pure rationalization. When you verbally attack a persons family and whine when they respond does that make you (or her) the victim? Hardly. This "person" says she's an aspiring professional writer,right now she is simply a non-professional waitress and an amateur human being.
48. That Darwin Question:
Why can't we find some reptiles growing feathers to become birds?
Or Fish trying to become reptiles. Snakes with legs?
Did all this evolution just happened so long ago and they don't try anymore? Shouldn't there be tens of thousands of "finds" of evolution going on right now?
.
Or Maybe GOD just did that too, and HE is all done for Now!
.
We go to several non-denomination Bible based Christian Churches, and we just don't see the types portrayed in the CBS special GOD's Warriors.....and our churches don't even mention evolution. But what about all those missing Bird-Fish waiting on the beach for Darwinist Lovers to pick up on their way back to the automobile?
.
There is quite a disconnect between all these "christian" Democrats and their behavior in the non-election years!
.
And, Why has the Media stopped reporting on sightings of BILL CLINTON ( that Christian Guy ) being seen with real beautiful women at distant nightclubs only reached by PRIVATE JETS?
( Bought with Saudi-Quattar -Bribe Money )
And Has the MEDIA forgotten how Hillary's Brothers were PAID $$$ by the people who got those Jan 20th Pardons? Shouldn't that have ended her political career?
49. As long as democrats continue to heavily promote child-killing (aka abortion), gay marriage and human cloning, they really don't have an appeal to most christian or socially conservative jewish voters.
50. Antonio at #43. You made an accusation at #30 which I quote here: " Instead he searched public records for dirt on her and sent a relative to the restaurant to get her fired (which he did)."
It is not my place to defend Stefan.
What I am doing is outing you as a liberal partisan with an axe to grind. You have offered no proof of your accusations. Shame on you.
51. Antonio @ #4 and #30 - get a grip - "Systematically destroy her life"? Please, all Stefan did was publish a few words from Steffany's own blog. And he didn't have to search public records for dirt on her -- she had blogged everything herself. If you saw the post before he took it down, you would have seen how contemptuously she wrote about her family customers in general. She also blogged that she needed to get a job where she didn't have to touch other peoples' food. If you were a restaurant owner, would you have wanted her to work at your place? I think not. Admit it, Steffany brought this whole thing on herself by making incredibly mean-spirited and false statements about a young child (we're talking preschool). Feel free to offer her a job if you feel she is such a good employee.
52. Antonio - one more thing. Say your kid tells his classmate he wants to blow up the school, and the classmate tells the principal who sends your kid home. Are you going to make your kid take responsiblity for his own actions and words, or are you going to blame his classmate? Again, Steffany brought everything on herself through her own actions. It's one thing to expect someone to turn the cheek when they're slapped, but don't expect most to turn their cheeks if their young are attacked.
53. Isn't it fun that when you challenge lefties to back up there nonsense they slither away? Reminds me of what Rosie did after Elisabeth Hasselbeck had finally had enough of her. We never saw Rosie again. These people are bullies and just like when I was a kid, I found that if you pop them in the nose a couple times they go away.
54. Bill,You do not represent a large enough majority to get any political traction here in this State.
Not enough people in Washington are buying what you are selling.
What you represent is being soundly defeated at the polls.
That being said,I am desperate to get some checks and balance,But I am not going to get it from platforms that you endorse.
The R's ship has sunk in Washington State, and the band stopped playing years ago,yet you still dance to that losing tune.
As a registered agent of intolerance you fail to see that your current limited allegiance to the police,the Church,The Corporations, and the delusional,are not going to ever get a majority here.
The R's are done..A better way of saying it is the neo cons are done here.
More and more fiscal conservatives have either jumped ship or were pushed overboard.
Toby Nixon seems to move farther and farther into the back of the bus.
Listen up Billy Boy,unless you learn to play well with fiscal conservatives,YOU WILL FALL FURTHER,AND FURTHER INTO THE IRRELEVANT.
At least you will have father murphy to give you a hug from the side.
55. Bill,You do not represent a large enough majority to get any political traction here in this State.
Not enough people in Washington are buying what you are selling.
What you represent is being soundly defeated at the polls.
That being said,I am desperate to get some checks and balance,But I am not going to get it from platforms that you endorse.
The R's ship has sunk in Washington State, and the band stopped playing years ago,yet you still dance to that losing tune.
As a registered agent of intolerance you fail to see that your current limited allegiance to the police,the Church,The Corporations, and the delusional,are not going to ever get a majority here.
The R's are done..A better way of saying it is the neo cons are done here.
More and more fiscal conservatives have either jumped ship or were pushed overboard.
Toby Nixon seems to move farther and farther into the back of the bus.
Listen up Billy Boy,unless you learn to play well with fiscal conservatives,YOU WILL FALL FURTHER,AND FURTHER INTO THE IRRELEVANT.
At least you will have father murphy to give you a hug from the side.
56. So if you are a fiscal conservative "Publicbulldog" which way do you vote? Who are you supporting in '08?
57. And instead of actually having a discussion you throw everything but the kitchen sink into the argument. Who the hell is Father Murphy? And what the hell does the "Church," and "The Corporations" have to do with the topic at hand. Goofy talk like you spew here only reveals that you are a moonbat.
58. And then there's is that inevitable silence. Name calling and venom spewing only goes so far.
59. The Federal R's are a spend and spend bunch that does not have anyone that will get my vote.
The State R's only have Toby Nixon,and he isn't even elected.
I am doing what I can to convince the R's to adopt a different platform.
So as you can see I do not have anyone that represents me right now.
Nationaly The D's Richardson is the closest one to getting my vote.
State wide there are a few R's that like my pro small business,Transportation diatribe.
The D's despise me for my constant attack on their spending spree,and union pandering.
So if you talk to most D's they know who I am,and they have refered to me as Bin Worthington.
http://www.stacybannerman.com/media-archives.shtml
60. "What you represent is being soundly defeated at the polls."
Soundly defeated-- 129 votes after pulling every dirty trick in the book, is soundly defeated. What a joke.
61. The term "Christian" covers the spectrum from those that don't believe in the Trinty, don't believe Scripture is Divinely inspired and don't believe that God is the same, yesterday, today, and tomorrow. It is very hard for an individual who reads the Bible literally to be a dem, I know, I tried. Members of my Evangelical prayer group are from different denominations of Protestantism and I am Catholic. The thing we have in common despite doctrinal differences is we take a conservative approach to Scripture.
There are hyprocrites in every faith and no faith at all. St Paul addressed this in his letters to various churches in Asia Minor. The fact that some individual who is claiming to be Christian has fallen short of the mark is not a cause to become weak in the faith and leave the body of Christ. I know that people like to point to the various divorces and bad behavior. I seem to remember a blue dress and an intern. You know what, God will deal with all that in His own time and He will sort the wheat from the chaff. I don't have to.
The reason that I am an independent is I do not support abortion, gay marriage, and hip hop. My prayer partners and I think we have theological basis for those beliefs. So, unless Dr. Dean is able to get God to, in my opinion, change His mind, the current crop of dem candidates holds no appeal for me. If candidates don't support my positions, I can vote for Micky Mouse.
62. I was D's public Enemy Number 1,when I pointed out that Bill Heunnikens was picking up unsealed voting machines in violation of the State election laws.
I was constantly quoting the law,and eventually they canned him.
You can check with Dan Satterburg if you like.
I was the only one during the elction mess to quote a law was broken when the D's would ask What laws where broken?
I will find the RCW for you if you like.
The court should have thrown out all of the votes he picked up unsealed.
That could have changed the Election.
The D's knew I had them by the short and curlies but the R's failed to bring it up in front of the judge.
63. I was D's public Enemy Number 1,when I pointed out that Bill Heunnikens was picking up unsealed voting machines in violation of the State election laws.
I was constantly quoting the law,and eventually they canned him.
You can check with Dan Satterburg if you like.
I was the only one during the elction mess to quote a law was broken when the D's would ask What laws where broken?
I will find the RCW for you if you like.
The court should have thrown out all of the votes he picked up unsealed.
That could have changed the Election.
The D's knew I had them by the short and curlies but the R's failed to bring it up in front of the judge.
64. And why "Publicbulldog" is it so difficult to simply say who you are and what you believe. I think that trumps being a paranoid looney any day.
65. RCW 29A.44.050
Ballot pick up, delivery, and transportation.
(1) At the direction of the county auditor, a team or teams composed of a representative of at least two major political parties shall stop at designated polling places and pick up the sealed containers of voted, untallied ballots for delivery to the counting center. There may be more than one delivery from each polling place. Two precinct election officials, representing two major political parties, shall seal the voted ballots in containers furnished by the county auditor and properly identified with his or her address with uniquely prenumbered seals.
(2) At the counting center or the collection stations where the sealed ballot containers are delivered by the designated representatives of the major political parties, the county auditor or a designated representative of the county auditor shall receive the sealed ballot containers, record the time, date, precinct name or number, and seal number of each ballot container.
Old Bil H was driving around alone with unsealed containers,and voting machines that were picked up in violation of Washington State rcw RCW 29A.44.050.
RCW 29A.44.320
Delivery and sealing.
Whenever poll-site ballot counting devices are used, the devices may either be included with the supplies required in RCW 29A.44.110 or they may be delivered to the polling place separately. All poll-site ballot counting devices must be sealed with a unique numbered seal at the time of final preparation and logic and accuracy testing. A log must be made of all seal numbers and device numbers used.
All of those votes should have been thrown out.
The King County canvas board broke the law Because they said they did not want to disenfranchise that many voters.
So they ruled that even though there was an appearance of impropriety,none could be proven so they ruled that the illegally picked up ballots counted.
The fact Is Bill heunnikens broke the Washington State election laws.
Instead of eliminating an appearance of impropriety and throwing out those votes The canvas board rulled that those voters should not be penalized,and counted them,then fired Bill heunnikens.
Keep in mind Gregoire won King County so removing 1200 votes from King County would most likely have cost her the election.
Too bad the R's would not make this an issue when they where in Wenatchee.
66. PAGAR,
What Joke,
Every year the Republican caucus shrinks.
I wish it was a joke but it isn't.
Running a small business that is a joke.
67. Pagar,
Small business is a hamster wheel.
68. @64,
I dont want another multi jurisdictional drug task force to come to my house and put me and my kids against the wall,for doing what the State says I had a legal right to do...
It really is no secret if you have been following this blog.
My name Is John Worthington.
Oh and I do stand for something.
Every God damn day.
69. And why, after reading your babbling posts would I think, "Publicbulldog", that you are anything but a complete looney?
You are off the charts. Too many bong hits? Too Much wine? Too much hanging out with liberal goofballs? There has to be some explanation.
70. I don't do this very often but it sure is fun once in while to expose these idiots.
71. Bill,You have not been keeping up with current events.
I was a medical marijuana patient.
Now I am straight as an arrow.
Just because some dork doesn't understand,and needs the index doesnt mean I am looney.
I am creative.
Just because You still want to use a beachball for summerwear,and the flashlight for evening wear, and cant follow the Bouncing Bible,Doesn't mean I am taking bong hits.
Give it a rest dork.
72. Any relation to Cal Worthington?
73. I do believe that your posts speak for themselves, "Publicbulldog".
74. "I can't eat all these cars!"
I miss Cal.
75. And his dog spot!
Sitting here making a bundle for the stockholders, taking my pain pills like a good boy until my liver and kidneys quit working.
since I cant use medical marijuana without some neo conservative drug task force coming all the way to King County from kitsap county to uphold federal law with State tax dollars,with the approval of idiots like Bill.
Feel better bill, you neo conservative dork
76. "Feel better bill, you neo conservative dork"
Call me that to my face and I will kick your teeth down your throat. You coward.
77. How does it feel Bill,to tell other people how to live their lives.
Does it make you feel special.
Do you get your jollies having law enforcement wearing military gear with night vision,busting down some poor cripple bastards door at 420 am on 4/20/.
You must really feel special.
To me your just another neo conservative idiot.
78. Why not send another task force ?
I am sure they won't mind.
79. Call West Net,
They have the urge ,and the federal funding matched by the State of Washington.
Give Roy Alloway a call.
I am sure he would love to come out and maybe shoot me by mistake.
I will grab the remote and make it easy for him.
80. Honestly. I don't know what you are talking about. One thing I do know, you are not the phoney conservative you claimed to be way back at post #18.
81. Could you follow that Bill, you simpleton.
Can you follow the bouncing bible.
82. I am a fis-cal con-serv-ative.
Get it.
need some help
Fiscal conservative
From open-dictionary.com - the free dictionary.
English
Noun Phrase
fiscal conservative
One who favors a balanced budget, prefering spending cuts.
83. 1st place I cut.
King Counties 74 percent criminal justice budget.
2nd place I cut.
Multi jurisdictional drug task forces state funding.
It seems that criminal justice is an out of control snowball,and they have money to spare busting down cripple bastrds doors at 420 am on 4/20/.
84. That's nice "Publicbulldog" Perhaps you can explain why you are unable to have a simple dialogue about issues that concerns us all.
Is it that hard?
85. BillC writes,
Still waiting for Bruce to tell us where on the political spectrum he lives. Marxist?, Trotskyite?, Leninist?, Maoist?, Wobblie?, Owl Party?
Well, this board should be about ideas, not people. It shouldn't matter where I am on the spectrum. And labels are simplistic. But since you asked, I am usually liberal on social issues, moderate on fiscal issues, and moderate on foreign policy. This usually aligns me with Democrats.
86. Ah yes, Bruce. Just what exactly does a "moderate" believe? I'm teasing you Bruce because "moderate" and "mainstream" are the classic words that leftists describe themselves. "Moderate" in a political sense is a word entirely devoid of substance. But it makes for great cover.
87. So Bill,
King County predicts that by 2013 it will be spending 100 percent of its budget on criminal justice.
If I decide I don't want to spend that much on criminal justice,does that make me a moderate or fiscal conservative.
John
88. Then there is the case of David Leadbetter.
He admitted to raping a child,but did no jail time.
We throw money at criminal justice,but only to go after non violent criminals.
My position is that when we get to the point 100 percent of our County budget goes to criminal justice,we will just use the increase to arrest more non violent criminals, and make more deals with the violent criminals to reduce jail time..
What is your position.?
What do you stand for.?
arrest as many non violent criminals we can get our hands on,and make deals with the David Leadbetter's of the world.
Explain how I am a moderate because I want to cut criminal justice because they just take the path of least resistance and fill my criminal justice system with non violent criminals,and make deals to keep the violent criminals out of jail,or let them out in a year and a day.
Notice Mr.leadbetter never saw the inside of a prison despite admitting to raping a child.
Was that worth 74 percent?
Are you comfortable paying 74 percent of our county budget to criminal justice,and letting convicted rapers go free after he gets lectured and watches a few hours of video's?
What kind of message does that send rapers?
Please explain your position.
John
David leadbetter.
http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/servlet/SOR?id=X00100014
89. Of course "Publicbulldog" I agree with your postion to a point. I want violent criminals to be locked up so that decent people can be safe. I am not sure what you mean when you advocate cutting the criminal justice system. I don't know where you get this idea that by 2013 King County will be spending "100 percent of its budget" on criminal justice. Can you quote some actual facts?
90. Eric: the real surprise is that anyone is buying this garbage from Jim Wallis and the Democrats. They say "God is much bigger than abortion" and then use that aphorism to justify calling EVERY issue a religious/moral issue.
What they forget is that just because God says to care for the poor, doesn't mean that we should do so through the government, let alone the federal government.
91. Bill,
Call Cliff Curry of the King County Council @206-296,he will back up my claims,in 2002 our county predicted that in 2008,not 2013 as I stated, we would be spending all of our money on criminal justice.,..
They have made some adjustments since then but my statement was true,and in fact off by 5 years.
I want you to understand that I am not promoting non violent crime ,but I think that non violent criminals should be working and helping to tow the cart instead of being on it.
I feel that I have a fiscal conservative motive,and I do not believe I am a moderate on the issue.
92. Bill,
Being in small business since the 80's,
I tend to look at things thru small business colored glasses,not liberal,or moral ones.
93. Looking at comments 66 and 67. "Running a small business that is a joke" and "Small business is a hamster wheel" I am confused when these descriptions coupled with comment 92 " Being in small business since the 80's I tend to look at things thru small business colored glasses, not liberal, or moral ones."
94. "Publicbulldog" I'm not going to call anyone. You haven't even provided a real phone number for heaven's sake. If you can't cite a credible source for the claims you make how can you possibly expect anyone to take you seriously? I can't help but wonder, what kind of "small business" are you in?
95. Cameron at #93. You don't think that "Publicbulldog" is a liberal phoney do you? There is certainly no evidence in any of his posts to support that outrageous claim.
96. Bill,
would you like me to get Cliff Curry to come on the thread for you.
I can understand if you are too busy gathering signatures to call.
If I can find the thread I will post it.
Sounds like you are afraid Cliff Curry will back me up on my claim.
By the way I called Cliff Curry this morning and asked him if I could quote him on that and he said yes.
Be a man Bill,Give him a call and here it straight from the horses mouth.
After all Cliff Does do this for a living.
Name: Clif Curry
Title: Sr. Principal Legislative Analyst
Group: KCC/CC - Law, Justice & Human Services
Email: clif.curry@metrokc.gov
Mail Stop: KCC-CC-1200
Primary Phone: 206-296-0358
Why not Bill,Afraid of the truth.
97. Sleeping in the garage doesn't make you a car, and going to church on Sunday doesn't make you a Christian.
You're an awful, vindictive man who does not follow the teachings of Christ. Christ says if you are struck, to turn the other cheek.
But when somebody says you're a bad tipper with a hyper child you smear them as publicly as possible.
You are not a Christian, so please stop pretending you're better than a "liberal". You're just an angry, hate-filled asshole who goes so far as to attempt to cause a member of the working poor to lose their livelihood, because you're offended by something they said.
YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN. You're just an asshole with a Bible. Go fuck yourself.
98. Please retitle this article 'Stefan Sharkansky Doesn't Understand Faith' for accuracy.
Until Stefan re-reads his Bible and starts living by the word, he has no right to criticize anybody else. As it stands, he's proven that he's a vengeful asshole with no understanding of Jesus' teachings.
99. Please post your place of worship. I want to ask your Minister to have a chat with you about Christianity, forgiveness and charity.
You need it, you lousy cunt.
100. The kind soul posting at 97-99 has a lot of stones to be lecturing someone else about the teachings of Jesus based on the tone and language of their thoughts. They're also a prime example of why drinking before commenting at blogs is not always prudent.