Today's Seattle Times editorial welcomes Rodney Tom into the 8th congressional district primary race and simultaneously marginalizes Darcy Burner.
I won't go so far as to predict that the Times endorses Tom in the primary, but I'd wager a modest sum that they will.
I don't think that the Times endorsement in this race, or in any other race, means very much, but It will be interesting to see how Tom's opposition to the death tax and the Times' apparent preference for Tom goes over with the Darcy Burner camp.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at July 19, 2007 08:32 AM | Email ThisRegardless, nice to see Darcy the clueless will have an opponent in the primary.
Can't the 8th come up with better than Reichmeister, Tom, and Darcy? It is a sad day in politics.
The Geezer
Posted by: The Geezer on July 19, 2007 10:15 AMSomething New: Young People Take Action -- The DNC Presents a Sophisticated, Late-night, Hip Hop and Alternative Educational Experience
Organization: Democratic National Convention
Category: Political/Special Interest Geographical Area: Atlanta
Start Date: 1/21/2004 End Date: 1/21/2004
Start Time:
End Time:
Event Info: The DNC presents a sophisticated, late-night, hip hop and alternative, educational experience. Join other young Democrats in the fight to beat Bush and the Republicans in 2004! DEMOCRATIC OFFICIALS: Chairman Terry McAuliffe . Mayor Shirley Franklin . Congressman John Lewis . Congresswoman Denise Majette BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Keenan Towns . Marc Barnes . Alex Gidewon . Micheal Gidewon . Jerry Vines . Phil Robinson. SPECIAL INVITED GUESTS: 112 . Jermaine Dupree . Avant . DJ Jazzy Jeff . Babyface . Faith Evans . Ludacris . Kelly Price . Gary Sheffield . Farnsworth Bentley . Usher . Ginuwine . Hype Williams . Michael Vick . Jagged Edge . Warrick Dunn . Jazzy Pha . Kenny Burns - VP Roc-a-fella . Ryan Kenny . Loon . Outkast . Sam Cassel . Chaka Zulu . Shakir Stewart - Hit Co. Pub . Tina Davis - VP of Def Jam . Stephen Jackson . TLC . Tyrese . Sugar Ray Leonard Sr & Jr. Tickets: $50. For more info, call Malik Husser or Justin Paschal at 202-863-8070
Now, back to Tom. If he truly is for any type of competition in education, I hope that he is endorsed. But, the education establishment is so entrenched, I hope that I am wrong, that his chances will be slim to none at this time. There is at this point in time simply too much money invested in the status quo for the establishment to go quietly into that good night. I would love to be wrong.
Posted by: WVH on July 19, 2007 01:51 PMSecond, atttending one youth-oriented event three years ago in the city where he lives doesn't make Vick a big-time Democratic fundraiser. You'll need to demonstrate a history of political action or fundraising to show that. Just because there are more red states than blue mentioned in his indictment (Georgia, North Carolina, Alabama, South Carolina, etc.) doesn't somehow mean that Republicans are more likely to support dogfighting than Democrats.
At some core issues, we need to be Americans first and members of a party second. I'd hope this is one of those times.
Posted by: mr. smitty on July 19, 2007 03:02 PMIn the first place what I was pointing out is that we will not see any mention of his activism in the msm and we all know that we would have by now had the perp not been a Democrat.
In the second place this was a partisan undraising event sponsored by the Democratic National Convention.
In the third place I was aware that he has a history of lending his name to left wing Democrat candidates and appearing at their fund raising events. How else do you think it was so easy for me to do a simple internet search and come up with this info? Ya big dope.
Posted by: JDH on July 19, 2007 03:54 PMI just checked his name on the FEC database and did a google search on "Michael Vick Democrats" and didn't come up any examples of him being an activist outside of the one THREE YEAR OLD EVENT IN HIS HOMETOWN you already mentioned. One appearance does not an activist make. So when you say you're aware of him being a supporter of Democrats, prove it.
I'm not denying that may be the case, but you need to back up that claim with many examples of public support to call him a Democratic activist.
And maybe you're just too dense to understand it, but my point was his poltical views are irrelevant when considering something as heinous as dogfighting. Democrat or not I hope he goes to jail and gets beat down for years if the allegations are true. And if it was a celebrity who supports Republicans I assume Eric, Stefan and everyone here would feel the same way.
Posted by: mr. smitty on July 19, 2007 04:21 PMIf the dems or any party, for that matter, wants to spend some energy on my issues, I'll listen. I just don't see an attempt to embrace what will work. Johnson started the Great Society to address the issues I care about and we are still discussing many of the same issues today.
What is needed is strong in-tact families, a culture of education and education achievement and development of an economic and entrepreneurial, not socialist base.
Posted by: WVH on July 19, 2007 08:22 PMI just finished my scan of the news, so I can address you and other progressives directly. The late Jesse Unrah said that money is the mother's milk of politics. The connection between politics and hip hop is there. Like the connection between many mainstream corps and porn as well as hip hop.
Hillary hasn't given the money back, has she? This is an exerpt from the Kansas City Star sports page:
"As much as I love dogs -- and I really do have an affinity for them -- this case primarily repulses me because I believe Vick got involved with breeding vicious pit bulls because rap-music culture made it the cool thing to do.
Listen, I don't want PETA supporters upset with me. Animal cruelty is intolerable. But I'm wondering what could turn a human mind and heart so cold that a person would find pleasure in breeding dogs for cruel destruction in 2007.
Seriously, Vick didn't do it for the money. The Atlanta Falcons gave him all the money he could ever hope to spend. Vick was involved in pit bull breeding (and quite possibly dogfighting) because he enjoyed it. He's a product of a culture that makes the "profession" acceptable and honorable. It's the same culture that has turned the dope dealer into mayor of the neighborhood.
This is a human tragedy, too.
It speaks to the grip the negative aspects of hip-hop culture have on young people. Vick is a millionaire athlete who has spent most of his NFL career trying to maintain his street cred. Despite lifetime financial security, Mike Vick stayed on the "grind," hustling for that paper with his Bad Newz Kennels. Idiot...."
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/195760.html
So, why don't Rodney, Darcy, Dave and all the other candidates take a stand against hip hop?
Because money is the mother's milk of politics. Hope Hillary is sleeping well tonight.
Regarding hip hop, stereotypes about this culture are just like every other one - there will be some people who match it exactly and the vast majority won't. Hip hop is not a pro-dogfighting culture and Jason Whitlock's article doesn't make it so. I've been to plenty of hip hop and rap concerts, seen thousands of videos and read plenty of magazines - I don't ever recall dogfighting mentioned once in any of them. I would bet that Will Smith never was involved in dogfights, and the same with Diddy, Ludacris, Kanye West and most of the major stars. And while we're at it, Jason Whitlock is the columnist who came under fire for defending (sort of) Don Imus during the "nappy ho's" scandal. He is not an expert on the hip hop culture, whatever color his skin maybe.
I'm sure there are fans of hip hop who are into dogfighting, but since there are supposedly 50,000 or so people who are part of that then I'm sure most cultural/musical categories are represented - it's a pox on everyone's house.
I've never studied his biography, but I'm not aware of any extensive history of thuggery from Timbaland. The recent arrest after he punched a guy who supposedly called him the N word is the first legal trouble I've ever heard about him, and if that's what I happened then I'd say it's completely justified.
And truthfully, many of hip hop's biggest stars - Kanye, Ludacris, Mary J Blige, Queen Latifah and yes Timbaland often offer very intelligent and thoughtful interviews. There are plenty of role models in that group.
So while there may be the occasional contribution that you and I would agree is dirty money, if I were to find that a major candidate decided to give back all money tied to hip hop that person would lose any chance at my support due to outright ignorance.
Posted by: mr. smitty on July 19, 2007 11:41 PMSo, Hillary would lose your support. My doctorate is in education, do you have any experience with low-income children and particularly low-income children of color?
Please comment on the following passage from the Colbert King of the Washington Post, certainly no conservative rag:
"Mrs. Clinton, you may recall, took umbrage at Imus's remarks, branding them "small-minded bigotry and coarse sexism." His words, she said in an e-mail to supporters, "showed a disregard for basic decency and were disrespectful and degrading to African Americans and women everywhere."
Good for her, I say, except it must be asked why she was down in Florida making nice to -- and pocketing big bucks from -- a rapper whose obscenity-laced lyrics praise violence, perpetuate racist stereotypes and demean black women.
Check out Timbaland's latest album, "Timbaland Presents Shock Value."
Here are lyrics from the track "Come and Get Me":
"Nigga Your Time Is Up, I Aint Come To Kid You
I Knew You Niggas Was Dumb, But How Dumb Is You . . .
I'm A Ride Or Die Nigga, I Be Tearing [expletive] Up
We Aint Like Them Other Fools, Who Don't Compare To Us
All The Hoes Love A Nigga, They be Backing It Up
But Me I Love Money I Be Stacking It Up . . .
I'm Rich I Can Pay To Have You Six Feet Deep (Nigga)"
And from his track "Kill Yourself":
" . . . most of u rap niggas is hoes to me,
wherever u from
the question I ask
is do u think I give a [expletive] . . .
u mad at me? cuz im getting rich,
well put the pistol to ur head and empty the clip, pop nigga!"
And how about this little ditty, "Considerate Brotha," from an earlier recording:
". . . Hoes coming up short? Hoes finna get cursed out!
. . . Slam the mask out of these hoes and they say, 'What is that, velvet?'
And they betta meet they quota, betta yet betta meet they deadline . . . I'm a pimp all around
A pimp of the town -- we pimpin 'em up, HOES DOWN..."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/20/AR2007042001589.html
According to the Urban dictionary, this is one definition of a thug:
"A Thug can also be described as a person who has lead a life of crime, a few example of a thug would be robbing people to supply their drug habbets, bank robberys, killing people, you know the rest thats another way of describin a thug."
Hip hoppers and Hillary are robbing kids who lack the maturity to make wise choices and because they have limited family and social support are trapped in their circumstance.
Now, you need to get down with yo hommies:
"Pit bulls are typically used to portray an aggressive image.
● Rotweilers and Dobermans were once rappers preferred props--now its pit bulls.
● Hip hop stars like 50 cent, Snoop Dog and Jay-Z glorify dog fighting with pit bulls in their music videos.
● In 2004 Ruff Ryders Entertainment--the record label for Eve, DMX and Jadakiss--capitalized on the pit bull craze by launching "Game Dog pet food", featuring an aggressive looking pit bull.
●DMX released an album called "Grand Champ" with a pit bull on the cover. A grand champ in dogfighting is a 5 time winner with no losses.
●Lil' Jon sings "Shortly tried to stick 'em, told the pit bull to sick 'em" in "bia' Bia"
● Kanye West and Ludacris sing "And to get hollow we fightin' pit bulls and rotweiler's in the projects, The objective is make dolla's" in "Whole City Behind Us".
●Boston Celtic Gerald Green has three pit bulls. He said: "I like aggressive, big dogs. My dogs are well trained, but I want my dogs to be aggressive when its needed."
●Antwan Patton will be in a new movie, A.T.L.,that has a scene with two men stepping into a chained enclosure with a viciously snarling pit bull.
Possible Video: Images from rap videos, movies, kennel websites, merchandise. Interviews with celebrities.
Pit bulls are typically used to portray an aggressive image.
● Rotweilers and Dobermans were once rappers preferred props--now its pit bulls.
● Hip hop stars like 50 cent, Snoop Dog and Jay-Z glorify dog fighting with pit bulls in their music videos.
● In 2004 Ruff Ryders Entertainment--the record label for Eve, DMX and Jadakiss--capitalized on the pit bull craze by launching "Game Dog pet food", featuring an aggressive looking pit bull.
●DMX released an album called "Grand Champ" with a pit bull on the cover. A grand champ in dogfighting is a 5 time winner with no losses.
●Lil' Jon sings "Shortly tried to stick 'em, told the pit bull to sick 'em" in "bia' Bia"
● Kanye West and Ludacris sing "And to get hollow we fightin' pit bulls and rotweiler's in the projects, The objective is make dolla's" in "Whole City Behind Us".
●Boston Celtic Gerald Green has three pit bulls. He said: "I like aggressive, big dogs. My dogs are well trained, but I want my dogs to be aggressive when its needed."
●Antwan Patton will be in a new movie, A.T.L.,that has a scene with two men stepping into a chained enclosure with a viciously snarling pit bull.
Possible Video: Images from rap videos, movies, kennel websites, merchandise. Interviews with celebrities."
From:
[DOC] The new craze with hip hop stars and pro athletesFile Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTML
Kanye West and Ludacris sing "And to get hollow we fightin' pit bulls and rotweiler's in ... Pit bulls are the most commonly used breed for dog fighting. ...
www.personal.psu.edu/lfm126/Pit%20Bull%20Pitch.doc - Similar pages
Dog Fight - www.program-indir.orgNow for every real dog There's that bitch that's behind. ... Chorus 2x: Ludacris Move bitch, get out the way Get out the way bitch, get out the way ...
www.program-indir.org/aramaindir.php?aranan=Dog%20Fight&sf=2 - 71k - Cached - Similar pages
Regarding Obama and his comments about sex. The biography of his wife is instructive. Michelle Obama did not grow up in the same circumstances as her husband and the way that she escaped was being sheltered from the environment. She had a strong family and was able to escape to Princeton and Harvard.
So many of you progressives have no clue what you are talking about and continue to defend the indefensible.
Posted by: WVH on July 20, 2007 07:08 AMFinally, in my professional capacity as Dr. WVH:
If this is your thought:
"And truthfully, many of hip hop's biggest stars - Kanye, Ludacris, Mary J Blige, Queen Latifah and yes Timbaland often offer very intelligent and thoughtful interviews. There are plenty of role models in that group."
I don't want you any where near a kid. That would be child abuse.
Posted by: WVH on July 20, 2007 07:13 AMThat being said, the Republican Party is rife with examples of absolute human filth as well. AND those who are not personally involved in the corruption, protect those who are.
I have said that I a glad that many of them were shown the door the last election cycle, I had wrongly assumed that the Party would clean up it's collective act after the trouncing they took.
As for politicians in general today, I do not support any Party accross the board and give them NO money to distribute as they think best, I only donate to individuals whom I have personally vetted or that I have close friends who can vouch for them. Since doing this I have been burned a couple of times, but not "daily" as it used to seem
Posted by: JDH on July 20, 2007 07:15 AMTimbaland's lyrics are just that - LYRICS TO A SONG. To say that kids can't put them in context and realize the fiction involved shows your lack of understanding and respect for our nation's youth. And to say all hip hop is like that also demonstrates your ignorance of that world.
And if you ask the family members, close friends and co-workers who have children if I'm a good influence on their kids the answer would be a unanimous Yes. And I hope you don't treat your children with the same disrespect you apply to kids at large. Limiting their minds and thinking skills in the name of "protecting" them does more harm than good.
Posted by: mr. smitty on July 20, 2007 10:51 AMAs for my original assertion that the msm would not report this because of the connection to Democrat fundraising, I stand by it 100%
By the way you can still help to support Vick by heading down to your local sneekker store - Nike told retailers it will not release a fifth signature shoe, the Air Zoom Vick V, this summer. Nike spokesman Dean Stoyer said the four shoe products and three shirts that currently bear Vick's name will remain in stores.
Posted by: JDH on July 20, 2007 11:05 AMAnd your other two statements just prove the close-minded, ignorant, overly partisan-fueled lens with which you see the world.
You're an example (and there are many on HA or Kos as well) of everything that's wrong with our political climate today - EVERYTHING has to be put in a Democrat vs. Republican spin, EVERYTHING is proof of some basic, simple sound-bite friendly stereotype, and the other side is ALWAYS wrong and evil if they dare disagree.
I pity you.
Posted by: mostly dem on July 20, 2007 11:30 AMVick is as representative an example of everything the hip hop culture stands for as ever there has been a single person who is the embodiment of any obviously and demonstrably destructive culture.
It's sad that so many people have such a poor education that a good portion of the country has bought into the notion of compartmentalization, situational ethics and moral relativism.
They are shining examples to show to childeren of how it is possible to have all the money and fame in the world, yet still lead a life utterly devoid of style, class and dignity.
Most of can think of people who are fine examples of people who have done exactly the oposite on a modest income.
For this, I guess we owe do owe the likes of them a debt of gratitude.
Posted by: JDH on July 20, 2007 12:29 PMThis is not helping.
Posted by: Rey Smith on July 20, 2007 01:27 PMI specifically asked you whether you had experience with low-income children. It is hard to generalize because what children need no matter what their class is a consistent caregiver who loves them. Money often cannot buy this. There are some truly great parents who just happen to be low-income and have not fallen into the culture of poverty.
You and your secular progressive ilk are a huge part of the problem. Many kids that are low-income do not have the support systems and the maturity to to discern what is real and what is inappropriate. Michelle Obama's family kept her secure so that she could achieve.
For you to say these hip hop thugs are role models means that you subscribe to the secular progressive bigotry of low expectations for children and people of color. Why are you pushing role models like Chenault the CEO of American Express? The answer is secular progressives need the votes of people of color, but the truth be told, you don't like us any better than those attendees at KKK meetings. What people of color need is education, economics, a strong in-tact family structure and not to be patronized by idiots like you.
I still wouldn't let you near a kid.
Posted by: WVH on July 20, 2007 02:12 PMAnd now I'm against support systems for kids in need because...why exactly? Because I'm not willing to blame their problems on hip hop, and because you've decided (incorrectly) that I'm a secular progressive?
It appears you're simply not capable of actual reasoning or sharing views, which is too bad. I'd guess that your attitude and need for name-calling demonstrate a real lack of self-esteem. To claim I'm the one making generalizations in this argument is just laughable, but I suppose if it's the only way you can feel better about yourself then I'll survive.
So just to be clear: you're saying that issuing blanket statements like you do (i.e., hip hop culture is to blame for _______) isn't patronizing to people of color. But being a Democrat who actually understands significant aspects of hip hop culture and recognizes there are some role models, things to learn and success stories from that culture is patronizing?
To answer your question, yes I have experience with low-income children, although limited. And I love how you say it's hard to generalize, then refer to complex, varied groups such as hip hop culture and secular progressives as one entity. If you really do work with vulnerable children for your day job, I pray for their sake you're better in practice then you appear to be in discussion.
Posted by: mr. smitty on July 20, 2007 03:30 PMLet's see, anyone who disagrees with your secular progresive view is inacapable of reason. This is what I said:
The answer is secular progressives need the votes of people of color, but the truth be told, you don't like us any better than those attendees at KKK meetings
I stand by that statement. Your ilk have low expectations for children of color. So, hip hop thugs are OK to push, images like Ken Chenault, Ken Griffey, who was here recently and last time I checked married the mother of his children and is reponsible for them or any of the myriad of hard wroking people of achievement are given a back seat to hip hop thugs.
Now, if you really want to laugh, start now. Your ilk is poision and are a huge part of the cultural genocide being waged against Black people. Hey did you march against the Balkans, urging Clinton to act to prevent that or do you and your ilk toast with syrah while collecting money and signatures to stop the genocide in Sudan? All great causes, I might add. You won't stop the genocide here because there is too much money involved. Ask Hillary, she kept the blood money.
Guess what they insulted the woman that started MADD and called her a nut. So continue laughing. The Urban League is a wonderful organization, but guess what wonderful people sometimes know and like dangerous idiots, like you. Hope you are not personally profiting from hip hop.
Literally, I thank God for the wonderful groups of Black Evangelicals who have joined with other churches of all denominations and faiths to stop the hip hop culture.
So, laugh and call me every name in the book. I have been in this kitchen a while and can stand the heat. Meanwhile, I get to call you what you are, in terms of the effects of your views, you are no better than the KKK. So, I guess it is
he he.
How long have you been posting here? Just so we know who we are dealing with, are you saying because you have friends from Temple University by way of an association with the Urban League makes you qualified to opine about the effects of hip hop on young Black children?
I have been posting here awhile and have made no secret about the fact I am a Black conservative
Christian woman.
I suppose one of the great things about the Internet is one can choose to be anonymous if one chooses. I am going to ask you a series of questions and if you choose not to answer, that is perfectly within the rules of the blogger game.
1. What is your race?
2. If you have a religion, what is it?
3. If you don't currently belong to a religious
faith, do you have a particular religious
background or culture?
3. Do you in any way profit from hip hop
activities such as running a club or rave
venue?
I just want to know if my theories about who you are are correct. But, if you choose not to answer, that is well within the blogger game.
I want to leave you with some comments by Dr. John
Mc Whorter, a Black academic about hip hop.
"Anyone who sees such behavior as a path to a better future--anyone, like Professor Dyson, who insists that hip-hop is an urgent "critique of a society that produces the need for the thug persona"--should step back and ask himself just where, exactly, the civil rights-era blacks might have gone wrong in lacking a hip-hop revolution. They created the world of equality, striving, and success I live and thrive in.
Hip-hop creates nothing."
http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_3_how_hip_hop.html
Posted by: WVH on July 20, 2007 07:40 PMIt took me a bit to get the Temple University reference. They have a program on hip hop. Other Black academics, like Mc Whorter disagree with that premise. On the Urban League, they do sponsor
a hip hop reading program promoted by Russell Simmons. 50 Cent is paired with Apple and Ludacris has a foundation. Just like the Mafia, they are trying to sugar coat poison. What there is a huge disagreement in approach and the Urban League on this program has chosen to align itself with some awful customers on this.
This is the same question asked by sports and the arts when they choose funding from certain types of sponsors. The Virginia Slims Tennis Tournaments were one example. Yes, you can point to a major Black organization that, in my opinion, has stooped or should I say lowered itself into the gutter on this one. I still say that people of your ilk who push this junk are in effect no better than the KKK. Hip hop culture = death.
Posted by: WVH on July 20, 2007 09:13 PMI have always been critical of hip hop. It is always about follow the money. One party governments, like those in Tacoma and if they elected elections director doesn't pass, King County will line the pockets of the elite. Mr. Smitty has every right to his privacy, but the ownership of hip hop labels until recently has been Caucasian and the ownership of many clubs and rave venues is the same. In this case, though, race is of interest, but really not the determining factor. Hip hop is poison no matter who owns the label. What Mr. Smitty was aluding to is that Temple where Bill Cosby graduated has a program in hip hop. Russell Simmons has paired with the Urban League for a hip hop academy. Corrupt elites, no matter the color, will take the money and run. Russell Simmons thinks this good work will save his soul and make up for the damage hip hop has done, not so. So, whatevers, like Mr. Smitty will defend the genre because the Urban League and Temple seem to give him some sort of permission. People have always taken the money and run. Follow the money in Tacoma, Newark, Gary and hip hop and ultimately it will lead to some slug like a Larry Flynt type. All people can do is say that there are standards and continue fighting. I am heartened that the little people can change cultures. People now shun those that want to drink and drive. Hip hop sales are down and more people are beginning to question it. Thanks to the editors of this site for allowing this discussion, even though off topic. To the candidates, Rodney, Darcy, and Dave. Sorry to cut into your promo time, but you really should consider taking a stand against this poison. Believe it or not, we are more on the same side than not. So, I guess we fight on.
Posted by: WVH on July 20, 2007 10:34 PM--Anyone who'd call those who disagree with them equal to the KKK is incapable of reason.
--Anyone who needs to reassure their sense of worth by coming up with classifications (your very inaccurately labeling me a secular progressive) is incapable of reason.
--Anyone who speaks in ridiculous generalities themselves (i.e., "secular progressives think _____", "hip hop is responsible for ______") and then claims someone else is generalizing for disagreeing, is incapable of reason.
To answer your questions, I'm white, Jewish, hence belonging to a Temple that is just as much a house of God as your Church. It's interesting that in your mind you were determined, if not desperate, to cling to your manufactured notion that I fit your stereotype of a secular progressive, and twisted (probably unconsciously) my previous statement of faith to mean something different.
I have been a member of the Urban League and maintain friendships with people I've met in that organization. And what's more important than my race or the race of those I befriend, is the lack of importance race plays in those relationships. Whether at a UL meeting, the basketball court, or my office, skin color is not an issue as to what kind of person someone is, or if I'm friends with them. Neither are their religion, politics, sexual orientation, income, or whatever other means you'd like to use to divide people into your handy little compartments.
No I don't materially profit from hip hop or music at all, but it's had a profound impact on my life. Some of my best memories and experiences have involved hip hop. A 2Pac song played a major factor in determining where to bury my father. My friends and I can find meaning (both positive and negative) in the lyrics of hip hop just as much as other genres, and I feel nothing but pity for close-minded souls such as yourself and JDH who have determined that there is no good messages or people anywhere in an entire culture.
If you'd like examples of positive or uplifting tracks from hip hop, I'd like to recommend the following tracks:
Nas - I know I can
Coolio - See you when you get there
R Kelly (not him as a person obviously) - Gotham City, I believe I can fly
Puff Daddy - I'll be missing you
Ice Cube - It was a good day
Montell Jordan - This is how we do it
Will Smith - Just the two of us, Summertime, Just cruisin
Bone Thugs and Harmony - Crossroads
Nelly - Dilemma
Outkast - Miss Jackson
LL Cool J - Father, Loungin
Kanye West - Jesus walks, Drive slow, Never let me down
Jermaine Dupri - Sweetheart
Fabolous - Into you
Eminem - Mosh, Mockingbird, Hallie's song
Beastie Boys - An open letter to NYC
2pac - Life goes on, You are appreciated, Changes, To live and die in LA
2pac & Notorious BIG - Runnin
I am glad you were upfront enough to state your background. That was my theory and it was confirmed. I suppose that never the twain shall meet. At least you didn't call me a nappy headed ho. I'm sure your friends at the Urban League are happy you are bringing us all together. Tell your friends at the Urban League that while I think they have done many good things in the past and there is always freedom of association, is some one like you who freely uses their name and association in the long run really good for the health of Black people? I still think you are poison and I haven't changed my opinion about people like you.
Happy that I am incapable of your type of reason.
Best Wishes and I hope some one from the Urban League reads this exchange. Again, at least you didn't call me a nappy headed ho. Say hi to James for me.
What's really funny is your hypocrisy - earlier you referenced Jason Whitlock's column regarding hip hop, yet he came under fire by the Rutgers womens' basketball team for defending Don Imus (or at least not coming down hard on him). And now you try to project words that Imus uttered and Whitlock was relatively okay with onto my thoughts, when I was the one who said Whitlock is full of it.
I'll be happy to tell Mr. Kelly hello next time I talk to him, although I haven't seen him for a number of months. I would think everyone from the Urban League I've come into contact with would say my involvement is healthy for both myself and black people, if I have had any effect at all - but the reality is I'm not important enough to make a difference. But then again, they've only gotten to know me, had face-to-face discussions, and spent time with me. So I'm sure you have developed a much better sense of the type of person I am (poisonous KKK member) from us typing back and forth at each other.
Assuming you've accurately described your biography - and I believe you have - you're worse than JDH. JDH is just dumb and too unaware to realize it. You, however, are clearly capable of making an informed debate on the issues, but are willing yourself into ignorance because a simple solution like blaming hip hop for everything is easier than dealing with people and situations case-by-case.
If you are in a position to influence young children, then I hope this is your alter-ego.
Posted by: mr. smitty on July 21, 2007 01:17 AMI finally put my finger on what it is I don't like about you. You are a weasel. I have had my differences with JDH and I regularly called him a bigot. I fought with Pudge who called me a liar and Bruce who called me names and Ivan who said I was a fraud. JDH has a geniune love for his community even though it doesn't love him back. I have a geniune love for my community and I want to see it survive and thrive. You just want to use Black people to make yourself feel good about yourself, for whatever reason. You don't have a geniune love or caring about our future, you are a weasel. I don't know, maybe you are on the Board of the Urban League, maybe you give them a shit load of money and they can't afford to make you mad. But, you are using Black people for your own purposes and you really do not care about our best interests. Too bad the Urban League has to rely on the kindness of strangers for its current survival. I never thought I would say this, but I would rather be aligned with JDH who is fighting for the survival of his community than a weasel like you who will ultimately kill us. Hope the Urban League begins to fight for the surival of Black people once again.
Posted by: WVH on July 21, 2007 01:18 AMIf the impression was of me bragging just for the sake of it, I sincerely ensure you that was not the case.
Posted by: mr. smitty on July 21, 2007 01:21 AMYou ask a fair question, but I already answered it - you equated me with a KKK member, which I find incredibly offensive. But instead of trying to out-insult you, I instead pointed out examples in my life (Temple and UL) that disprove your point.
I'm glad you have a positive perspective on the world, although I wish you had debated from that vantage point instead of quickly resorting to cheap shots. Regardless, good night and best wishes.
Posted by: mr. smitty on July 21, 2007 01:43 AMJust curious, why don't you ask the members of the Urban League what the official position of the organization is and whether your views are more in line with the official position. If they are, glad to know that, there are plenty of other Black organizations for me to support. I know that they will be thrilled that you singlehandedly are bringing us Black folks together to fight for the cause. Gee, what we would have done without the insight of someone like you who plays hoops with some folks from the League and now has gained such wonderful insight into the Black community that he can tell me, a Black woman in education about the merits of hip hop.
Since you made this statement:
"Well, first of all the Urban League is bigger than one man - even someone as crucial and worthy of respect as Mr. Kelly - but it just so happens I've spoken with others in the organization more recently than him."
I suppose you have some ideas about who Black leaders should be as well.
I am glad that you responded. Even though I have called JDH a bigot, I would work with him any day over you. You patronize Blacks. JDH may not like me in particular or Blacks in general but he is smart enough to realize that communities should be allowed to select their leadership. He just doesn't want them to be corrupt.
I understand that you are a religious Jew. One of the funniest conversations I ever had was with a secular Jew around the time of the elevation of Pope Benedict. They went on and on about how the Catholic church shouldn't have a Pope that was against abortion and gay marriage among other things. First of all, I explained, you hate Christians in general and Catholics in particular. Since you are not a Cardinal, it is none of your damn business. So, you play hoops and that gives you permission to opine on whether hip hop is harmful to Blacks and who the leaders should be. Meanwhile the young Black body count is rising. Glad to know what is going on at the League, I'll just have to direct my support eleswhere.
Posted by: WVH on July 21, 2007 02:05 PMI know as well as the next that hip hop transcends all racial and class barriers, but it wreaks the worst havoc on those communities that do not have the resources to be able to weather the storm. If you truly care about those on the precipice, you would not want to add to the destructive influences which are wrecking lives and communities.
Let me tell you something buster, my circle of friends transcends barriers to a degree you would envy. I respect all peoples, but I am brutally frank and sometimes have initiated heated discussion. I do not make blanket associations between the destructive elements in society and racial groups. Others sometimes assume that I have and then I have to go back and parse my words and point out that it is their not knowing me which has led to the jump.
When talking with people with the "where with all" of WVH constructive discussion is always the result. With people who only seek to label ANY criticism as bigotry and refuse to allow clarification, discussion is futile.
I can accept that I do not parse my words carefully, but my intent is not to paint with a brush that tarnishes anyone's community.
By the way, the effects of destructive behaviors on distressed groups is a primary reason that we should not tolerate those who are more insulated from the effects of destructive lifestyles being lionized by Hollywood or the msm.
There are many books on this subject, none of the titles comes immediately to mind, but I promise you if you locate one of the better ones and read it with an open mind you will see that the connection is quite plausible and in fact is highly probable that the conclusions of studies done are accurate.
Posted by: JDH on July 21, 2007 02:55 PMNo that is NOT what I said, I said hip hop CONTRIBUTES to the destructive, base and anti-social element throughout the community. On balance the message is >95% to
Only by showing it for what it is can we combat the type of insanity that is displayed every time some big northeastern city mafioso dies and the "community" turns out to wail and gnash their teeth over the "good works" associated with their life. These people have no sense of proportion and are incapable of reason.
These people are "takers" just as pornographers and drug distributors are. Or how about the owners of "strip clubs" where every "Sandy Beach" or "Sindy Pink" is a "single mother working her way through college". For every one of these that these clubs can boast of there are hundreds of prostitutes and drug addicted shells of their former self. I have seen it destroy people myself when a former 18 year old hostess from a resterunt my sister worked in was cajoled into going that direction by smooth talking strip club recruiters including another former hostess. Prior to ending her life she poured out the whole sordid story to my sister.
These people who "were so interested in the fact that she was wasting her life" when she followed them there "used her up" within a year and couldn't care less about it.
So there's your "you overlook the positive elements," to chew on for a while. This girl resisted their overtures for months, but persistence paid off for them when she went to "just be a hostess." It was not longer than a month before she had been absorbed into the culture and was performing blow-jobs for cash. What she could not take was watching powerless as "new meat" showed up and was soon on the road to a hell on earth.
Immersion in a destructive culture is tragic for MOST and the hip hop culture is an on balance destructive culture which only the strongest willed kids are able to resist.
Posted by: JDH on July 21, 2007 05:49 PMI say I'm not important and don't have any influence, you try to turn that into me claiming responsibility for uniting black people and being a spokesman for the Urban League. I hold no position there, so clearly I'm not at liberty to speak on the organization's behalf in any way.
I say I happen to have spoken with other UL members more recently than the highly respected Mr. Kelly, you claim I'm trying to determine who their leadership should be.
Once you decided I had a different opinion then you, every post you've made has been a dishonest retelling of my postings with a new set of descriptions about why I'm evil/bad/destroying society, etc. In this entire conversation, every comment I've made you misconstrued to claim I was saying something else. It's sad that someone who clearly is capable of legitimate debate has a need to villify those who share a different opinion, although it's common within the political blogosphere on all sides.
I think it's likely you're a different person in the blogging world than you are here, but if your daily life is so based on spewing venom and manufacturing demons every time you run into a challenge, then I truly pity your existence. It doesn't matter if I'm just some random white guy and you're a black woman who is in education - if you are the same person here that you are in the real world, any human being can read your methods of discussion and realize the coldness in your heart is dangerous to those around you.
Clearly, there's nothing left for us to say on this matter. You've decided I'm a monster and are completely unwilling to actually listen to any of my arguments outside of your bitter filter.
Even though according to you I hate blacks, Christians and children, am in the process of overthrowing the current leadership in the black community and destroying all of you, I hope you know I will still have you in my prayers at Temple. You need as many prayers as can be summoned on your behalf, and if you interact with people this way in your day job, then the children you work with also need prayers.
Good luck to you.
Posted by: mr. smitty on July 21, 2007 06:05 PMYou forgot to call me nappy headed ho. Thanks for the prayers, they are much appreciated. Oh, by the way, I would never use another group to disprove what some one said about me, particularly if I wasn't a member of that group.
That old some of my best friends are______ is very tired. So, since I am spewing venom according to you, why are you criticizing me, I could be just another hip hop artist in the formative stages. In which case, as soon as I cut my first CD or download, I'll forever be admired by you and added to those wonderful moments that have made you the man you are.
My best to you as well.
Posted by: WVH on July 21, 2007 06:43 PMI have not seen Groening lampoon the hip hop culture, he may have though, but it would be a public service to have him point out just how shallow riding around in a Bentley showing off all their bling, pit bull dogs and hosebag strippers while committing assault, rape and murder really is.
He would do it in a way that really gets the message through too. If he hasn't, one likely reason is the culture of hip hop's resorting to firearms when they feel they have been "dissed".
When MTV reinforces the notion that it's sporting whatever "bling" you can amass regardless of how you came by it - it really sends a message that should concern all parents. Parents and schools should be reinforcing how important character is if they really want true happiness and success in the children. When surrounded by a culture that conveys and worships the exact opposite every time they turn on the TV or leave the house - what can I say.
It truly is reinforcing the wrong message too when the City's, State's and Country's leaders are seen cozying up to a bunch of thugs. They should be shunned, at the very least, if not openly criticized and ridiculed for the losers that they are.
Posted by: JDH on July 21, 2007 07:53 PMI'm with you on this one. When the going gets though, I remember that good social change takes a couple of generations. Bad social change seems like it happens over night. It is interesting to review some magazines like Look or the old Life from the 50s. They have ads featuring doctors smoking. I know that some doctors smoke, but you don't see doctors in ads portrayed smoking. People are going to have to pound away early and often that hip hop = death and not only the young are killed, but communities die as well. The grass roots can change politicians orientation. If this were not true, the immigration bill would be law by now. I am prepared to be called every name in the book and even spat upon.
The number of the young dead or dying in my community is staggering. You know the situation on the Hilltop. Robert Jameison in the PI has a description of one funeral:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/324605_robert21.html
No, I am not a bitter person. I am simply one person among many trying to fight an evil that threatens the survival of many communities.
For the dilettantes out there that dabble in hip hop because like Kodak, it captures the moments of your life, gee, isn't it great to be among the living - hopefully, there will be an army of us that will become your worst nightmare.
So, JDH we fight on.
Posted by: WVH on July 21, 2007 08:15 PMWhat they needed was adults who were truly interested in their wellbeing and channeling all that energy into something positive instead of trying to be "cool." Funny thing is, all they accomplished is to reinforce the impression prevalent at the time that they were they so wanted to be "cool" that they were actually pathetic to watch.
Posted by: JDH on July 21, 2007 08:33 PM
In game of life, Vick blitzed by trouble
By ALAN JUDD
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 07/22/07
Michael Vick joined the Atlanta Falcons a month shy of his 21st birthday, a naïf whom his new team would shelter from the bright lights of the big city.
Or so the Falcons thought.
Shielding Vick from temptation quickly gave way to protecting his image. Long before a grand jury indicted him Tuesday in a federal dogfighting case, Vick's performance on the football field often competed for attention with his conduct outside the arena.
But repeatedly during the past six years, Vick's celebrity, his money and his value to his team helped insulate him from public censure for his actions.
Vick settled a lawsuit last year by a former girlfriend who said he knowingly gave her a sexually transmitted disease. But the case was closed in such secrecy that the woman's lawyer can't even say why he can't comment on it.
Vick surrounded himself with unsavory associates, two with criminal records for drug trafficking. After two friends with Vick pocketed someone else's fancy watch at the Atlanta airport, the owner said a Falcons executive offered him money to keep Vick's name out of a police report.
Even the contents of Vick's water bottle raised questions. Vick gave contradictory explanations about a bottle with a secret compartment that police confiscated in January in the Miami airport. Police said it contained suspected marijuana; five days later, authorities said no drugs were found. Vick later claimed he kept jewelry in the compartment, and that police tried to frame him.
How the Falcons, Vick and his fans responded to those episodes illustrates the incredible leeway afforded talented sports stars, according to sports psychologists and others who study the actions of elite athletes.
"To some degree, there is a sense of entitlement and a sense of things get overlooked and things get taken care of and the rules don't apply," said Jonathan F. Katz, a psychologist in New York who consults with professional sports teams.
"It's like a parent," Katz said. "If there's tacit approval of misbehavior and there are no consequences, the message on some level is it's OK.
"We're all complicit in that," he said. "People are still going to pay for their cable television and their Falcons tickets and things like that."
Whether the team or the National Football League will discipline Vick remains up in the air. It's clear, however, that the Falcons missed several opportunities to curtail Vick's erratic behavior, from his brushes with the law to his obscene gesture directed toward booing fans last season.
Vick, though, long had lamented what he considered excessive scrutiny.
"I ain't got no control over what people are going to say about me or write," Vick told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution in 2005. "That's the worst part of my life right now."
Entourage
Dan Reeves, Vick's first coach with the Falcons, called his quarterback into his office in February 2004 to discuss a troubling news report.
In Vick's hometown, Newport News, Va., police had charged two men with drug trafficking after finding marijuana in their pickup truck. Actually, it wasn't their truck. It was Vick's.
Reeves saw the episode as a teaching opportunity. He lectured Vick on the importance of reputation, on choosing the right friends, on staying out of trouble for the good of his team.
"You are an Atlanta Falcon," Reeves says he told Vick. "Whatever you do is going to be a reflection on all of us, not just you."
"He wasn't in the car," Reeves recalled last week, "and he didn't have anything to do with it. But he was the one responsible -- it was his vehicle. He understood that."
Yet, Vick continued spending his free time with the same friends, engaging in the same activities. Like Vick, many came from a rough section of Newport News.
There was Quanis Phillips, a high school classmate of Vick's. He served brief jail terms on drug charges, including possession of marijuana with intent to distribute.
There was Tony Taylor, who came to Newport News after serving two years in prison for drug trafficking in New York.
There was Davon Boddie, Vick's cousin and cook. Boddie's drug arrest led to the April 25 police search of Vick's house in Surry County, Va., allegedly the base of a dogfighting organization called Bad Newz Kennels.
Phillips and Taylor, along with Purnell Peace, were indicted with Vick last week. Prosecutors allege they conspired to sponsor and participate in illegal dog fights and to transport animals across state lines to engage in fights. The charges carry maximum jail terms of six years and fines as high as $350,000.
In the 2005 interview, Vick defended his friends, whom he described as his "crew."
"We all grew up tight," he said. "We all stuck together before I was Mike Vick ... before the fame and stardom, before the money. There's not one new guy in my circle. Everybody I have around me is out for my best interests."
Two members of that circle traveling with Vick through the Atlanta airport in October 2004 seemed to have other interests in mind.
According to Atlanta police records, a security camera caught Phillips and another man, Todd Harris, picking up a Rolex while passing through a security checkpoint with Vick.
The watch belonged to Alvin Spencer, a security screener. After seeing the video, Spencer went to the airport police to file a report.
Spencer later said a police detective, promising that Vick would return the watch, urged him not to file a report. The detective hadn't talked to Vick, though, records show. He had called the Falcons.
The fixer
Billy "White Shoes" Johnson was a star receiver and kick returner for the Falcons in the 1980s. Four years after retiring, he returned as coordinator of player programs. His duties include helping rookies adjust to professional athletics and, since 2001, keeping the Falcons' best-known player out of trouble.
In January 2002, for instance, Vick had twice failed to appear in court for a parking citation. A Clayton County judge threatened to jail him if he didn't show up a third time.
So Johnson took him to court. After Vick paid a $260 fine, Johnson acted as his spokesman, telling a reporter the case was "bogus." He suggested Vick was treated more harshly because of his celebrity.
"It happens all the time," Johnson said of the charge. Afterward, the near-jailing of the Falcons' highest-paid player received little news coverage.
The day that Vick's friends took Spencer's watch at the airport, a police detective called Johnson. According to police records, Johnson offered to have Vick bring back the watch the next day and to pay Spencer $450 for "any inconvenience he may have encountered." Phillips and Harris, Johnson told the detective, grabbed the watch because they thought it belonged to Vick.
The next day, Vick didn't show up with the watch. But Johnson met with Spencer and police officers. Spencer, who could not be reached for comment last week, later said he felt pressured to not file a police report as Johnson tried to negotiate a payment to him.
Johnson did not respond to several messages left at his office by a reporter last week.
Spencer later said that Johnson and the officers kept him in a room for several hours, apparently less interested in retrieving his watch than in protecting Vick. He said Johnson asked him "what would make me happy." At one point in the conversation, records say, Johnson offered Spencer as much as $1,000.
"He's got Billy in there blocking for him and he probably has no intention of returning my watch," Spencer later said. "I felt betrayed by the whole process."
Spencer filed a complaint with Atlanta police over the handling of the case. When investigators submitted written questions to Vick, Johnson e-mailed back: "Mike will not participate in the investigation under advisement from his attorney."
The detective said Spencer tried to get as much as $20,000 from the team and that he didn't submit a formal report because "Mr. Spencer stated he and Mr. Johnson could settle this matter."
Ron Mexico
Vick settled another matter under the shroud of court-approved secrecy.
A former girlfriend sued Vick in March 2005, claiming he had failed to tell her he had genital herpes. A few days after they had sex without a condom for the first time, the lawsuit said, the woman experienced pains and went to a hospital emergency room. A doctor diagnosed genital herpes.
The woman called Vick, the lawsuit said, but he wouldn't return her calls for several weeks. When she did reach him, court records say, "he would be very short with her while continually denying that he knew anything about what she was saying about herpes."
Finally, the lawsuit said, Vick "confessed" that he had known he had herpes when he had sex with her.
In court filings, Vick's lawyers denied he had herpes at the time. If he did, they said, he was unaware of it.
A year after the woman says she contracted the disease, Vick was tested under an assumed name: Ron Mexico.
The results do not appear in the court file. But Vick's lawyers described the test as "unreliable."
The woman's lawyer took sworn statements from Vick, his friend Quanis Phillips and his doctors. But in April 2006, with the case headed to trial, the woman asked a judge to dismiss her lawsuit. She and Vick had reached a settlement. Its terms and several thick files, including Vick's deposition, were permanently sealed.
The settlement also precluded the woman and her lawyer from saying anything about the case, or Vick.
"No comment," her lawyer, Cale Conley, said recently. "Those are the only two words you're going to hear from me."
'Lesson learned'?
The incidents surrounding Vick have followed a consistent arc: Public embarrassment; followed by private talks with team officials, often described as "stern"; and concluding with Vick's pledge to do better.
In his only statement on the dogfighting case, he acknowledged in late April that he needed to make changes in his life.
"It's a call for me to really tighten down on who I'm trying to take care of," he said. "When it all boils down, people will try to take advantage of you and leave you out to dry. Lesson learned for me."
But even some of Vick's strongest supporters now wonder what he has learned.
Reeves, the former coach, said the Falcons investigated Vick's background before drafting him in 2001. And team officials were candid then about the extra care they were taking to shield Vick from bad influences.
After the drug incident involving his truck, Reeves said, he took Vick at his word that it was an isolated incident. But he said he found last year's obscene gesture at the Georgia Dome troubling, and the dogfighting allegations stunning.
"It disappoints me, but more it surprises me how he could be associated with something like that," Reeves said. "It's not the Mike Vick I'm acquainted with. He was just a really good person."
Psychologists suggest tougher responses to the earlier incidents -- by Vick's teammates, his coaches, even his fans -- might have prevented the current troubles.
"Individual behavior does not occur in a vacuum," said Colleen Hacker, a sports psychologist who teaches at Pacific Lutheran University in Tacoma, Wash., and is the school's former women's soccer coach.
"The environment you put yourself in influences who you are. The people who are an ongoing part of your life influence who you are."
-- This article contains quotes by Michael Vick from an unpublished article by staff writer Matt Winklejohn.
I doubt the minds of individuals who think that hip hop is just a harmless diversion will be changed no matter how high the body count is. There is simply too much money to be made by the purveyors. Also, the dem party has a real interest in not moving a lot of people of color out of destructive lifestyles, in my opinion - keep them dumb, dependent and dependable. So instead of role models like a Ken Griffey or a Ken Chenault, we are treated to some idiot who plays hoops a couple times a week with a few folks of color praising hip hoppers as role models.
The solution is not going to come from parties, it will come from the average folks who are mad as hell and say enough of the carnage. Guess any one that wants to do the right things these days is considered bitter. No, it is not bitterness, it is just trying to stop the ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Posted by: WVH on July 23, 2007 03:38 PM