July 16, 2007
Seattle's Garbage Police

The totalitarian nannyists of the Seattle City Clowncil have voted to microregulate residential garbage: "City to require table-scrap recycling at homes in 2009"

All single-family homes in Seattle must sign up for table-scrap recycling in 2009, the City Council decided Monday.

While residents will have to pay for the service, the city will not check whether they are actually dumping food in the new separate bin.

You know, if they want to offer me incentives to implement an elaborate garbage processing scheme, that's one thing. But when they impose their messy fetishes on the rest of us, it becomes tempting to bring one's food waste to a Clowncil meeting and deliver it in person.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at July 16, 2007 11:38 PM | Email This
Comments
1. I can't think of anything more ridiculous the Clowncouncil could foist onto the citizens of this City. I mean, with all of the raging problems seeking solutions, they're concerned about table scraps! Table scraps! What will they go after next? Glad I'm moving out of the city limits ;)

Posted by: Patrick on July 17, 2007 12:17 AM
2. Mandatory recycling of the usual kind (aluminum, paper, glass) was proposed and rejected in Yakima a few years back . To gather support from skeptical citizens, the council member supporting the idea claimed the recycling wasn't actually mandatory, just the fee. I guess some people have different definitions of mandatory than others.

Posted by: TLo on July 17, 2007 04:33 AM
3. The part that bothered me was further down in the article. If i read the P-I article correctly, it mentioned that do-it-yourself trips to the transfer stations would be eliminated. Our garbage collector does not pick up items that are larger than a full garbage bag even if they are in the dumpster (apartment dweller here). I guess maybe they could hurt the truck, I don't know, but what do I do with a broken bed frame if I can't take it to the transfer station? Is there a county dump somewhere to haul it to? We've already got people that won't take stuff to the transfer station...

This apartment dweller, thus not required to participate (thankfully, since I have no where else to put yet another bucket), thinks the food scrap recycling is out of line too. They're even going to make folks who compost pay for this!

Posted by: Jessica on July 17, 2007 06:52 AM
4. Next - mandatory soylent green. The ultimate recycling.

Posted by: Steve on July 17, 2007 08:19 AM
5. Ahhhh, Seattle.... it's such a great place... to be FROM.

Posted by: Hinton (Former Seattleite) on July 17, 2007 08:22 AM
6. Don't these people have garbage disposals at home to take care of table scraps? Or perhaps a dog?

Soylent Green is a good idea - ironically, we should start with the "greens" because in theory they should support the concept the most and complain the least.... ;-)

Posted by: John Galt on July 17, 2007 08:26 AM
7. Seattleites could mail small baggies of table scraps to the Clowncil. Anybody wanna join the revolution?

Posted by: John425 on July 17, 2007 08:29 AM
8. The fact that the fees are mandatory but the service is not tells me that this isn't about landfills or the "waste stream" - it's about creating new bureaucracy.

When Seattle decided to implement forced recycling a few years ago, the main reason given was to reduce the amount of landfill land the city would have to buy.

Has anyone seen ANY measurement if this program is financially successful? Has the city purchased less land, and has that savings offset the cost of the program?

Posted by: NolaGuy on July 17, 2007 08:32 AM
9. The fact that the fees are mandatory but the service is not tells me that this isn't about landfills or the "waste stream" - it's about creating new bureaucracy.

When Seattle decided to implement forced recycling a few years ago, the main reason given was to reduce the amount of landfill land the city would have to buy.

Has anyone seen ANY measurement if this program is financially successful? Has the city purchased less land, and has that savings offset the cost of the program?

Posted by: Nolaguy on July 17, 2007 08:33 AM
10. Sending trash to a landfill is expensive. Composting it to dirt is much cheaper and produces dirt to be used in parks and the like. Its not just about environmentalism, its also about being fiscally conservative.

Posted by: Giffy on July 17, 2007 08:34 AM
11. Some of us already compost all yard waste, food scraps and even dog poop on site. Why is Seattle not considering the vastly more energy efficient on-site home-based composting? Undoubtedly because they have not yet figured out how to tax home-based composting. Morons.

Posted by: Ed on July 17, 2007 08:37 AM
12. Soylent Green is PEOPLE!!! ;-)


Posted by: Palouse on July 17, 2007 08:38 AM
13. @* The City exports almost all its garbage and since the 80's it has been pretty steady in terms of tonnage with a slight decline the past 5 or so years. Given rising populations that not a bad thing.

Posted by: Giffy on July 17, 2007 08:40 AM
14. Giffy, any links to your landfill data? I'm cruising the Seattle Public Utility website and I can only fine quotes like this:

"Have little and gain. Have much and be confused."
-- Lao Tsu

Good grief...

Posted by: Nolaguy on July 17, 2007 08:43 AM
15. Patrick @ # 1 is right on: The SCC is becoming a theater of the absurd.

And roger that to Hinton @ # 5:
The further away from the better. When I read stuff like this I'm thankful that Okanogan County is far enough removed from Greater Seattle that we are safely out of the direct reach of any branch or variant of Seattle or King County government. Unfortunately the same does not hold for the currently leftist-dominated Legislature.

NolaGuy @ # 8 has the serious part of this; that applies all the way from the SCC to the current Legislature: ''It's about creating new bureaucracy.''.... and, I might add:
Paying off your political friends in said bureaucracy; i.e.: Forced ''contributions'' from rank-and-file union members, etcetera. An endless vicious circle: More government programs that require ever-more bureaucrats to run them, that require ever-increasing ''contributions'' from we the taxpayers to keep those bureaucrats and supporters well-fed.

Posted by: Methow Ken on July 17, 2007 08:51 AM
16. More proof alternative tobacco is being smoked in large quantities in the Clowncil chambers. The bottom line of the article is that they are after the money. They also don't understand food waste composting. It isn't just a matter of letting everything rot in a nice big pile--some things (like meat scraps and dairy) can screw up the whole deal. And let's not forget the smell and the critter problem. I work near a restaurant that is recycling food waste and on the warmer days it REEKS!

Posted by: Burdabee on July 17, 2007 08:52 AM
17. I'm going to throw all my table scraps in Richard Conlin's yard. He can recycle them if he wants.

Posted by: zorchdave on July 17, 2007 08:57 AM
18. Back in the 70's and early 80's before Lakewood was a City and was part of unincorporated Pierce County there was a twice retired (Military then Post Office) gentleman who used to come to my home, enter my back yard and take whatever cardboard, aluminum or glass was there and load it onto his pickup. He never left any mess nor caused me the least bit of concern.

This went on for years with me having my recyclables taken away and another person supplementing his pension by taking the material to the recycle center and selling it.

Low and behold, one day the County Council decides that the County will assume responsibility for MY recyclable material, and made the arrangement that I had with the gentleman who had been removing my recyclables illegal.

When I was notified of this my response was that the recyclables were my property and I can give them to any one I want to and if the County doesn't like it they can pound sand.

It wasn't too long after this mandatory recycling was implemented that I read in the News Buffoon that the County mandated recycling plan was loosing more money than had been anticipated.

Posted by: JDH on July 17, 2007 09:07 AM
19. Regarding the ban on self-hauling to the transfer stations:

I read the full analysis of this "opportunity" on the SPU Website. It's starts on page 137 of this doc:

http://tinyurl.com/2b2krs

A few highlights:

The reasons they want to ban self-haulers is mainly because they don't want to do maintenance on the transfer stations that allows self-haulers to be there safely. They also believe that self-haulers slow down the contract garbage haulers.

They will attempt to charge an extra $20 per ITEM to pick up bulky stuff in front of your house. That's right - it costs something like $20 a TON to go to the transfer station, but now one matress will cost 20 bucks.

Read the report - it's amazing.

This is not about reducing waste.

Posted by: Nolaguy on July 17, 2007 09:08 AM
20. Totally Seattle dude! Excellent! Single square of TP next man! Nuts, the smell of decomposing refuse will cover the other! Green-on man!

What about all the extra methane and how it will global warm up all those brain dead grunge band hybrid skateboard Seattle sprout munchers?

Reason 4,379 to stay out of Seattle. It already stinks. Compost on! Seattle deserves it!

Posted by: pbs7mm on July 17, 2007 09:20 AM
21. Just wait, next up is the ban on plastic grocery bags. Everyone who has to go up stairs to get their grocery bags to the kitchen will revolt.

I'm surprised Seattle hasn't banned disposable diapers yet.

Posted by: Palouse on July 17, 2007 09:25 AM
22. Nolaguy, I found it most recently here http://www.cfr.washington.edu/classes.cfr.301/Presentation%20slides/301%20Wk8%20Lect1-A.pdf

Posted by: Giffy on July 17, 2007 09:29 AM
23. it becomes tempting to bring one's food waste to a Clowncil meeting and deliver it in person.

You volunteering Stefan or are you just talking out your ass as usual?

Posted by: Cato on July 17, 2007 09:38 AM
24. We love eating Dungeness crab. I propose that after this idiocy goes into effect that us SP readers eat lots of crab and deposit the shells into the yard waste bin of the nearest City Council member. Yard waste gets picked up every other week. How great would that smell?

Liberals seem to be unable to anticipate the unpleasant consequences of their dopey "progressive" ideas.

Posted by: Bill Cruchon on July 17, 2007 09:50 AM
25. This is just another way the "City" can attack your wallet. People are going to get rid of their garbage one way or the other. If they can't afford to take it to the transfer station, they will just dump it on the street or in the city parks. Take a drive around the poorer areas of Seattle and note the old stoves, refrigerators, sofas, and sundry trash along the roads. I only have a few more years to work, then I am out of this insane asylum.

Posted by: NWDenizen on July 17, 2007 09:54 AM
26. "Don't these people have garbage disposals at home to take care of table scraps?"

If you wonder why the City's bills to support the sewage treatment plant are so high, the concept of garbage disposals should be enlightening.

Treatment plants are great at reducing the already-digested human wastes to more or less inert status. It takes far more effort for them to reduce undigested organic stuff like meat and potatoes and whatever Whole Foods sells, to the same inertness. That 'effort' includes more capital costs for larger facilities, and more power use - eg, more global warming, for you religious fanatics. As your sewage bill (meaning your water consumption, including lawn and garden use that never sees the treatment plant) trends ever more astronomical, you may think twice about encouraging electric garbage 'disposals'.

Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on July 17, 2007 10:00 AM
27. Some of you may have already seen the Penn and Teller bit on recycling, but for those who haven't, you can find it here (broken into three parts - it's long):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oloM_dSoW4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvfQ0iffj40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnoj9MPpi54

Posted by: Peggy U on July 17, 2007 10:15 AM
28. I am so sick and tired of the random, arbitrary, confiscatory tax practices that sully this entire region. I almost wish we just had a brutal dictator to get this ship in line. Pinochet anyone?

1) Free markets. Period. Full stop.
2) Brutal repression of liberals/wackos/protestors/greenies/anyone who quotes 4 billion dollars for a goddamn floating bridge.

Results?

1) Economic growth
2) More intelligent people.

Maybe after 20 years or so of this we could go back to democracy.

Just my two cents...

Posted by: student of history on July 17, 2007 10:16 AM
29. I am so sick and tired of the random, arbitrary, confiscatory tax practices that sully this entire region. I almost wish we just had a brutal dictator to get this ship in line. Pinochet anyone?

1) Free markets. Period. Full stop.
2) Brutal repression of liberals/wackos/protestors/greenies/anyone who quotes 4 billion dollars for a goddamn floating bridge.

Results?

1) Economic growth
2) More intelligent people.

Maybe after 20 years or so of this we could go back to democracy.

Just my two cents...

Posted by: student of history on July 17, 2007 10:17 AM
30. I am so sick and tired of the random, arbitrary, confiscatory tax practices that sully this entire region. I almost wish we just had a brutal dictator to get this ship in line. Pinochet anyone?

1) Free markets. Period. Full stop.
2) Brutal repression of liberals/wackos/protestors/greenies/anyone who quotes 4 billion dollars for a goddamn floating bridge.

Results?

1) Economic growth
2) More intelligent people.

Maybe after 20 years or so of this we could go back to democracy.

Just my two cents...

Posted by: student of history on July 17, 2007 10:17 AM
31. One real problem with letting food garbage sit out for that long is you will attract all kinds of vermin. Rats, raccoons, coyotes, possums, skunks ... all love tasty leftovers warmed in a garbage can. So do flies and yellow jackets.

Posted by: Peggy U on July 17, 2007 10:17 AM
32. This is nothing more than an attempt to raise more money. One can already throw food scraps into the yard waste container, as well as pizza boxes and other recyclable items that cannot be recycled due to food residue.

An apartment owner raises her rents, and the liberals scream. The government raises taxes on duplicate services and the liberals praise Gaia.

Posted by: Obi-Wan on July 17, 2007 11:14 AM
33. First rule of most Klowncils: garbage in, garbage out.

Posted by: katomar on July 17, 2007 11:24 AM
34. Speaking of garbage, may Evergreen State Collage (sic) suffer the fate described here by George Will as having befallen Antioch. (Probably not, though. The taxpayers pay for the Geoducks -- regardless of its utter irrelevance):

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will071607.php3

Posted by: Rey Smith on July 17, 2007 11:36 AM
35. recycling is a monumental waste of time, money and effort (see the Weekly Standard article like a year ago.

It may make some sense to recycle aluminum cans, I suppose. It just makes the tree-huggers feel warm and fuzzy inside - and I pretty much hate them anyway. Their eyeballs would pop out of their skulls if they saw what I place into my black plastic, duct-taped shut garbage bag which goes into my garbage can.,

Posted by: ajday on July 17, 2007 11:38 AM
36. A totalitarian money grab by any other name.

Posted by: Bard on July 17, 2007 11:43 AM
37. YEE HAW! We are in the TRANSFER TRAILER business!

Who knew SCC loved us so much?

Other than that. what a bunch of clowns.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on July 17, 2007 11:59 AM
38. Peggy U, thanks for sticking me on the computer for the duration of those Penn&Teller flicks.
They boiled it down well though. It's all about money and behavior of the commoners.

Posted by: PC on July 17, 2007 12:35 PM
39. Stefan whines, "You know, if they want to offer me incentives to implement an elaborate garbage processing scheme, that's one thing."

Do you also object to the laws against dumping your garbage in the nearest street or park? Shouldn't "they" (your government, which you elect and pay for) offer you incentives to pay for regular garbage collection?

Posted by: Bruce on July 17, 2007 02:10 PM
40. Bruce @39,

Watch and see how much more garbage gets dumped in the parks and streets because lower income folks would rather feed their families than pay exhorbitant fees to dump their trash. This is nothing more than a tax gouging persecution of the citizenry.

Posted by: NWDenizen on July 17, 2007 02:46 PM
41. If done wrong, yes: "One real problem with letting food garbage sit out for that long is you will attract all kinds of vermin. Rats, raccoons, coyotes, possums, skunks ... all love tasty leftovers warmed in a garbage can. So do flies and yellow jackets."

If put in a pile with other yard debris, occasionally covered with dirt or turned, there is no smell. And the compost goes back into the vegetable garden.

Posted by: Ed on July 17, 2007 02:52 PM
42. Surely you are just talking about vegetable "food waste" Ed. I doubt that you would put chicken bones, beef bones, fish skins and bones, crab or clam shells in your compost.

Not everyone has a compost pile or a vegetable garden. The city is proposing some kind of container for "food waste". That container damned well better be able to be sealed tight or we're looking at some very unsanitary conditions. And do we need to talk about the smell?

Posted by: Bill Cruchon on July 17, 2007 03:13 PM
43. Ed: I've got no problem with people composting in their own yards, or even with the city doing it. But this tactic is all wrong. Some food items just don't go in the compost bin and shouldn't be mixed in with other food scraps intended for that purpose. I don't think people will stop to sort out the chicken bones, the bacon grease, etc. So that either means you'll get unsorted food waste, which might as well go in with the regular garbage, or you'll have to pay some sucker to do the sorting.

And, with an alternate-week pick up schedule, that stuff is going to get really ripe - especially during the summer months. Count on the vermin showing up for the feast.

We have mandated curbside pick up where we live, but we still haul our garbage to the dump ourselves and pay the bill anyway. It kind of irritates me, really, since we are essentially paying double to avoid the hassles involved with letting the city do it! We share a driveway with two other families, and the pick up area is also shared. We found that we were consistently being charged for other people's unmarked receptacles. We also got tired of picking up garbage on windy days or after the raccoons had had a party (yes, we first tried securing the lids better, and that annoyed the garbage man!).

I'm with everyone else. This isn't motivated by any kind of noble ideal; it is simply another way to siphon off taxpayer money.

Posted by: Peggy U on July 17, 2007 03:17 PM
44. Student of History @28, 29 and 30~

I guess those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it, eh?

Posted by: Steven Donegal on July 17, 2007 03:59 PM
45. Almost every day I find something in the news that causes me say:

Thank God I FLED Seattle.

Posted by: Robert Wheeldon on July 17, 2007 04:11 PM
46. I'm with Stefan on this one. I've long said that I might consider recycling if I received a reduction of our monthly garbage bill to account for the time & trouble.

Until that time arrives, I'll just continue to throw everything in the garbage & let them decide how to recycle it.

I'm paying for the garbage service, so it should be for my benefit. We no longer subscribe to local newspapers, we seldom eat anything out of a can & we use a garbage disposal. So, I don't even know why I should be charged for any recycling at all.

Posted by: Clean House on July 17, 2007 04:50 PM
47. I am confused, I thought Seattle wanted higher Density, less single family "American Dream" homes on individual lots that would allow for composting in a garden/outdoor setting. Are we now proposing to compost on the balcony? You better live on the top floor of condo's because all of the "dripp'ins" are going to make life on the lower floors...well.. stinky.

Posted by: Smokie on July 17, 2007 04:55 PM
48. Wow! It must be scary up there, living among so many righteous coneheads. I salute you for your courage and hope for the day when sanity returns to Seattle. Good luck.

Posted by: Tupac Goldstein on July 17, 2007 06:46 PM
49. Coming soon: mandatory chamber pots and night soil collection fees.

Posted by: K.S. on July 17, 2007 07:09 PM
50.
KOMO News 4 reported tonight that Madison, Wisconsin is now America's Best Place to Live. I think, decades ago before the California Visigoths decended, it used to be Seattle.

Check out these 1-Bedroom condos selling for $75,000 in Madison (yes, 75K, I didn't miss a zero)

549 Donofrio Drive Unit 3, Madison, WI 53719

Look at how friendly and nice Madison looks -- Seattle has become a regulatory hellhole:

http://www.ci.madison.wi.us/


Posted by: John Bailo on July 18, 2007 02:56 AM
51. #50

"Visigoths" like the owner of this site?

Posted by: FT on July 18, 2007 04:56 AM
52. Recycling is a big waste of time and uses more energy than it saves, with the exception of aluminum. It's beaurocracy, it's taxes, it's a sham. It's time to put the burden of helping the environment on those who are actually creating the most waste: manufacturers. Force them to put consumer goods in reuseable or biodegradeable packaging. It's time to get real.

Posted by: Realist on July 18, 2007 05:24 AM
53. Recycling is a big waste of time and uses more energy than it saves, with the exception of aluminum. It's beaurocracy, it's taxes, it's a sham. It's time to put the burden of helping the environment on those who are actually creating the most waste: manufacturers. Force them to put consumer goods in reuseable or biodegradeable packaging. It's time to get real.

Posted by: Realist on July 18, 2007 05:25 AM
54. #53, "Force them to put consumer goods in reuseable or biodegradeable packaging."

Oh great, more government intervention. And I'm certain forcing companies to change their packaging won't increase the cost to the consumer.

I don't exactly see how this ties in with Seattle's ridiculous proposal regarding food waste.

Next thing you know you'll want to "force" companies to eliminate the use of plastic. The madness never ends.

Posted by: Bill Cruchon on July 18, 2007 09:49 AM
55. Go to any Seattle park or stadium. Never a way available to recycle all the plastic and aluminum and glass bottles. Typical Seattle liberal elitists: Do as we say, not as we do.

Posted by: Bob in SeaTac on July 18, 2007 11:24 AM
56. Actually, there are recycle bins next to the garbage cans at Safeco Field. And around the eighth inning they have a "Captain Plastic" character who encourages fans to recycle.

Posted by: Obi-Wan on July 18, 2007 11:50 AM
57. I disagree with Realist that the government should force manufacturers to use recyclable containers. As he said, the only thing that is efficiently recycled is aluminum. I do, however, think that some manufacturers could reduce the amount they spend on over packaging (and thus reduce the cost to the customer).

Have any of you ever seen the way they package birth control pills? For some reason that escapes me, pharmaceutical companies package them in big, gaudy containers that look like seashells or flowers or whatever! Then they enclose the container in a box or sleeve as well. Do they think this appeals to consumers? I've never met anyone who bought a drug for the appearance of its container. They don't do this with other drugs, so why the Pill? I've written letters to some of these companies about this overkill. Market pressure, rather than government intervention, should motivate them. If it bothers you enough to complain, Realist, then send a letter.

Posted by: Peggy U on July 18, 2007 01:26 PM
58. This is a moron jester for this reason.

Most people will not throw waste food directly in any container whatsoever. Why, because it will rot and stink, and emptying it just exposes you to all the gore of rot and stink. People won't do it. Al Gore doesn't do it.

So if you can put it in a plastic bag in the container, then you can dispose of it without having to deal with a stinky can and mess.

But they don't want you to throw away plastic bags.

The city doesn't look to see if you are separating it.

They don't give a rip!

It's just another Seattle feel good tax and fee hike...

Look soon for King County to mimick Seattle, they continually hang out in the same outhouse.

Posted by: GS on July 18, 2007 06:59 PM
59. Today I saw two different commercials sponsored by King County encouraging people to toss leftover vegetable food (no meat) into the yard waste bin. If KC can do it, why not Seattle? And, at no additional cost.

This is just another tax to separate the voters from their money. But the pinheads on the Klowncil know that because this will make the subject feel good very few will complain.

You really must watch the Penn and Teller videos that Peggy U linked too. The money quote is at the end of the third segment, that this is about control by people (libs) that like to control other people's lives.

And what about those homeowners that already use compost bins that use worms to turn the leftover vegetable matter into compost. Why should they pay twice?

Posted by: Obi-Wan on July 18, 2007 09:45 PM
60. Looking forward to the rat proof container. Plastic might not do it. Steel might be the answer!!

Posted by: russell Amick on July 19, 2007 12:54 PM
61. Steel might be the answer. Kind of heavy, though! I read that rats and mice can chew through concrete. We have a couple of pet rats, and when they want something they are very determined. It wouldn't surprise me.

Posted by: Peggy U on July 19, 2007 07:50 PM
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