Joel Connelly, the P-I's contumelious liberal columnist, today fulminates against Taxpayer Protection Initiative I-960: "Look to California for the wisdom of Eyman's new folly".
Connelly doesn't actually explain what I-960 does, but draws an arc between its requirement of a two-thirds vote of the legislature for raising taxes and California's very different two-thirds vote requirement and California's recent government shut-downs because of budget impasses. But Connelly's purported link between California's screwy politics and I-960 holds no water. I-960 only closes loopholes in Washington's 13-year-old I-601 two-thirds vote requirement which has never caused shutdown here. And coincidentally in today's news, Pennsylvania, which does not have a two-thirds requirement, has closed its government because of a budget impasse, an annual ritual since 2003.
Connelly's conclusion about I-960:
it's monkey business from a guy in a gorilla costume.Of course, Connelly's column has never been the place to go if you want cogent, fact-based analysis. But at least he's above name-calling! Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at July 09, 2007 09:28 AM | Email This
Don't ever fall for the income tax people. That will not stop them from taxing and spending.
Posted by: Army Medic/Vet on July 9, 2007 11:38 AMThe sad thing, is the people he stole from continue to support him -- as if no larceny occurred. Naturally, they never pressed charges -- doing so would admit they were robbed blind by someone playing to their beliefs. And, when he would have been convicted, they probably couldn't automtically counted on Bush commuting his sentence. Oh wait, yes they could have.
Posted by: Bill Anderson on July 9, 2007 01:47 PMGregoire is an admitting cheating, stealing CU Next Tuesday who takes advantage of those who trust and believe her every word.
The sad thing, is the people she steals from continue to support her -- as if no larceny occurred. Naturally, they never pressed charges -- doing so would admit they were robbed blind by someone playing to their beliefs. And, when she should have been convicted, they probably couldn't automtically counted on the Thurston County Court commuting her sentence. Oh wait, yes they could have.
Embarassing, even for Eyman lemmings.
Posted by: Bill Anderson on July 9, 2007 04:51 PMSecondly, Eyman has done more good for the state than Fraudoire could even accomplish in her WILDEST hallucinations!
Thirdly, people didn't press charges against Eyman because he deserves to be paid for his work.... PERIOD! So what if he didn't file the correct paperwork! People donated to the campaign and they got a well-run campaign.
IMHO, Eyman has yet to come up with a bad idea. Sure some didn't pass...but I still think they're good ideas.
Compare that record to the legislature's and the governor's anyday. They come up with about 10% no-brainer good ideas and about 85% bad ones. The others are neither good nor bad.
Posted by: drw on July 9, 2007 05:23 PMOk, we get that you don't like Tim Eyman.
So, what's your plan to save the voters of this state from the government tax and spenders?
Posted by: David on July 9, 2007 05:25 PM...and no, you proved MY point. You have nothing to say.
Posted by: Andy on July 9, 2007 06:32 PMPutting individual line item things to the voters (like Eyman does) is ridiculous. He (and the voters) then have no responsibility for the entirety of the decisions. It's why our system is set up the way it is -- elect people who are repsonsible for the whole thing. If you don't like their decisions, vote them out (or impeach them if they, say, STEAL).
On the line item people vote. How would you (and fellow republicans feel) if the US voting population could vote on "Stop funding IRAQ war."
Kinda same thing to "PAY $30 tabs".
Posted by: Bill Anderson on July 9, 2007 08:14 PMAnd what does the Initiative process, which deals directly with laws passed by the state government, have to do with the President's power as the Commander in Chief or the Federal Legislature's responsiblility for funding of the war?
I do agree that we need to vote them out of office. But are we supposed to simply sit back for 4 years and let them do what they want? Sorry, not me!
Posted by: David on July 9, 2007 10:01 PMPut up or Shut up.
Eyman delivers what he says to the people. Lower taxes. He should get paid for this!
Gregoire ran on a no new tax platform, promised to tackle the massive property tax hikes and has delivered nothing on these promises, except a 33% bloated budget and 1.6 Billion in Governement raises, including an 18,000 raise for herself.
She has no idea what burdens she continues to pile on the citizens of this state.
Nothing (thankfully).
What I was showing you was how silly the initiative process is -- it allows for a vote to erase a single thing the state government does without any consideration for the rest of the stuff government is about.
My point is that *if the same were true at the federal level*, it would be obvious to even the most die-hard Republicans that it's a very very bad idea.
I tried to show this with a direct example.
Eyman delivered only one thing...without creating a sense of responsibility for all other things.
It's like when east coast governors reduce state taxes and people cheer...only to find out the cities are now reponsible for things the state used to pay for (then gues what, the governors all get elected out when their sham is unovered...they yell "i cut taxes" but really just shifted them). You can't just do one without full responsibility for the other.
Eyman does one (with what ever money he doesn't steal from supporters) without responsibility for the other.
At the national level, you can see the impact. The same is state. The same is local.
The initiative process is being abused by Eyman who not only makes an extremely healthy living at it -- and it's bad for all Washingtonians.
Posted by: Bill Anderson on July 10, 2007 06:50 AMhe's your straight man, so to speak,
Posted by: righton on July 10, 2007 06:51 AMI can appreciate that you were trying to illustrate a point, but next time you might want to campare apples to apples, instead of apples to pineapples...
As for the rest (changing laws without regard for the consequences), what do you think the Legislature is doing to the people of the state? They vote in new taxes after the people of the state say that they want no more new taxes. We place limits on how much they can increase taxes and they ignore the law. We place limits on what the money can be spent on and the spend it as they see fit anyway.
The government is supposed to work FOR the people... not against them!
Posted by: David on July 10, 2007 05:10 PMIf the government is perceived to be doing what you say, they will vote out the folks.
That's how it's supposed to work.
And, it's a theortetical apples-apples. My point is showing that if the same thing existed at the national level, many folks on your side would freak when the people vote for "get out of iraq".
That's called an illustrative example.
I think you get the point: initiatives bad; holding elected officials accountable good.
(PS..I can't proposed an amendmment. 2/3 of both hosues of state government have to start the process -- some basic state civics)
Posted by: Bill Anderson on July 10, 2007 06:06 PMI still don't see how a process that is granted by the state constitution is equivelent to a theoretical situation that could and would never happen.
This is called REALITY!
As I said in the previous post, If you don't like initiatives- work to have the state constitution changed!
And actually, you could propose to one of your representatives that you would like to see the change happen. If enough people feel the way you do, it should be an easy task. Don't hold your breath...
Oh and thanks, but no thanks to your civics lesson- You see you are the one questioning the process, not me.
Posted by: David on July 10, 2007 06:26 PM