It looks like today is a good day for Team Red.
The United States Supreme Court struck down the Seattle Public School District's controversial "racial tie-breaker" policy which assigned school preference based upon the skin color of a student.
As a refugee of discrimination at the hands of Seattle public schools, I have to applaud the pounding of another nail in the coffin of the district's failed racial diversity policies.
*** I'll indulge the readers in a bit of Ward family history. Back around 1980 I was just a little fellow and my parents were preparing for my first day of school.
We lived at 32nd and Thistle in "West Seattle". The plan was for me to attend E.C. Hughes Elementary, Denny Middle School and Chief Sealth High School. Just like my dad. Just like my mom. And just like many of my uncles and aunts before me.
In 1981 the Seattle School District expanded its pilot busing program to include almost half its students. In my case they'd be shipping a kindergartner, alone, across Seattle to Van Asselt Elementary on Beacon Hill.
There were the standard public meetings. Neighborhood groups and parents vented their spleen at disinterested administrators and school board members. The policy went ahead to its illogical conclusion.
The term "White Flight" is often used as a pejorative to describe affluent rich, Caucasian families fleeing the inner city to "safe", upscale neighborhoods.
I don't know where everyone else went. But the Wards fled Seattle and moved south into the Highline School District where I attended White Center Heights Elementary. It might not have been the best of schools and there might have been just a bit too much asbestos inside the classrooms. But it was a neighborhood school and that's what mattered.
The problem is kinda circular. One needs a good basic education to get into a good college to get a good job to buy a house or condo in a good neighborhood. I predict that without a substantial change in the current insitutional stucture, meaning competition in education, we will be back in a few years to the situation that brought Brown v. Board of education. Only this time the novel legal arguments will not be race-based, but economic class based.
So many of the problems this society faces are because not all children have access to a good basic education. And, like Dr. Bill Cosby, I am not excusing the parents or students for their part. There are a combination of factors. An ethnic group cannot survive when so many of its children are brought up in fractured families. That is an internal discussion started by Cosby.
Another point, one party rule has not helped low income communities of color in Philly, Newark, Gary and other places. I am an independent, but parties need to appeal to a broad spectrum of people who support their basic platform. So, unless team red is now willing to push competition in education, a good day for team red, really?
Posted by: WVH on June 28, 2007 10:19 AMIt's the neighborhoods (local culture) that drive the quality of schools. Crappy systems exist across racial lines--it all comes down to what the local community wants. The Seattle administrators don't want success or else they wouldn't have chosen the latest loser as superintendent. And I am sure they will find some way to skirt around this SCOTUS "set back".
Posted by: Burdabee on June 28, 2007 12:01 PMExactly! Strong communitites make for strong schools and vice versa. Busing kids across the city wrecks after school programs, community involvement, and reduces buy-in at the schools.
What a crappy way to run the system.
Posted by: Steve in Queen Anne on June 28, 2007 12:49 PMWhat is team red? Red State?
Posted by: swatter on June 28, 2007 02:54 PMIf it makes you feel any better, I've always read far ahead of my grade level. Although I do feel slightly offended that you think that I write like some old geezer...
In all seriousness, thanks for the compliment.
Posted by: Don Ward on June 28, 2007 07:32 PMFunny thing, when I was younger there was this real old fart about 30 some years older (twice my age); I just happened to run across him. He still is skiing at 89 years old and was looking forward to 100 so he could compete with the 100 years old. Boy, was it nice to talk to him today.
Posted by: swatter on June 28, 2007 08:36 PMSigned, Proud Homeschooling Father
Posted by: pudge on June 28, 2007 09:12 PMThank you for your honesty. The fact of the matter is that the situation in the public schools is a complex mix of both race and class. Parents of all races want to instill in the children the values and traits that will make them successful in this society, economic system, and culture. People move to certain neighborhoods because they sense those with similar values reside there. For some, this is a decision based on race, for many others, this is a decision based upon class.
Brown v. Board of Education had two philosophical strains. One was the value of people of various races meeting and getting to know each other. I know that one of the criticisms of a school like Garfield, in Seattle is that many races occupy the same building, but don't meet. Often advanced placement classes have Asian and Caucasian students and special education classes often have children of color. The analysis of that is another thread. The real issue is student achievement for all students.
Marva Collins has taken the approach with Westside Prep and others have followed that it is better to have children of color with a superior k-12 education which will enable them to compete for spaces at any college in America on the basis of merit than it is to have them occupy space in an "integrated" school.
The same "leaders" that bemoan this decision are the same individuals that are against vouchers because they serve two few students. In essence, this program of the tie-breaker gets kids out of failing schools as well and it also doesn't serve many students.
What is needed is good schools in all quadrants of the city and that will only come about with competition in education. The current insitutional structure is broken and cannot be fixed.
Posted by: WVH on June 28, 2007 09:22 PM1. I applaud your honesty.
2. I haven't read enough of your postings to call
you a bigot, but I won't hestitate for a
minute if there is sufficient evidence in
my opinion to call you a bigot. Others
can call me a vicious slanderer, axe murderer,
or parking scofflaw, if I do.
3. You said this:
"I don't know why everyone is so afraid to say what it really happening. I do not want my kids to hang with a bunch of thugs and low lifes that do not want an education. If black kids really valued an education, then they would not be in the predicament they are in now...low grad rates, high crime rates, no father figures around. Why would I want my child to be around kids like that? I work hard and live in a respectable neighborhood, why would I want my kids to go miles away for the sake of "Diversity"? the test scores for the blacks do not go up, its been proven over and over again. Most parents like myself will just move my child into a private school and be done with it. The blacks in private schools don't even care about education."
a. Are you saying that every single Black person
in this country is a low-life and a thug?
Is that what you are calling me?
b. "The Blacks in private schools don,t even care
about public education." What is your evidence
or proof for this statement?
c. " ....the test scores for the blacks do not go
up, its been proven over and over again." This
is a fairly conclusive statement. Are you
saying that all Black people are incapable
of learning, so that Black people should not
be educated? What is your proof for this
statement, can you cite studies?
I don't know if you are a bigot, I would call you ignorant and fairly angry. You don't happen to live in Tacoma, do you?
Anyhow, you are right, you said what a lot of people think and haven't got the guts to say. I do applaud your honesty.
Posted by: WVH on June 28, 2007 10:11 PMWhat's the answer? Maybe it's the teachers and administrators that should be bussed across town. If the teachers and administrators cannot properly educate students at a particular school, then start trading some teachers from the schools that can.
Posted by: Palouse on June 29, 2007 08:20 AMI do have sufficient evidence to call you an idiot. There is plenty of evidence to back-up my prior statement. Get off your fat a$$ets and go to the archive.
Posted by: WVH on June 29, 2007 08:57 AMI think the answer is competition in education. Schools should be allowed to fail. There should be a variety of education options tailored to the particular population of kids. There have to be good schools in all quadrants of the city and that will only come about through competition.
Posted by: WVH on June 29, 2007 09:01 AMOne further comment for you. Do you agree or disagree with the statements made by Truthinwords?
Give your honest opinion now, here is the quote:
""I don't know why everyone is so afraid to say what it really happening. I do not want my kids to hang with a bunch of thugs and low lifes that do not want an education. If black kids really valued an education, then they would not be in the predicament they are in now...low grad rates, high crime rates, no father figures around. Why would I want my child to be around kids like that? I work hard and live in a respectable neighborhood, why would I want my kids to go miles away for the sake of "Diversity"? the test scores for the blacks do not go up, its been proven over and over again. Most parents like myself will just move my child into a private school and be done with it. The blacks in private schools don't even care about education."
a. Are you saying that every single Black person
in this country is a low-life and a thug?
Is that what you are calling me?
b. "The Blacks in private schools don,t even care
about public education." What is your evidence
or proof for this statement?
c. " ....the test scores for the blacks do not go
up, its been proven over and over again." This
is a fairly conclusive statement. Are you
saying that all Black people are incapable
of learning, so that Black people should not
be educated? What is your proof for this
statement, can you cite studies?"
So, is this your personal opinion?
Posted by: WVH on June 29, 2007 09:07 AMYou're not fooling anyone.
One further comment for you. Do you agree or disagree with the statements made by Truthinwords?
I'll answer that as soon as you either retract your claim that JDH is a bigot, or prove it.
It is you who are not fooling anyone. The evidence is there. You are correct that a word search using JDH or WVH doesn't turn up much, one has to look for the specific topic of the thread.
Frankly, I don't give a rat's rear whether you like me or not or whether you hate me because of my specific personality or because I happen to be Black. I do, however, like Truthinwords better than you because they are at least honest.
So, playing your little game let me advance the following theory. Black people scare the shit out of you. You have no ability to deal with situations that you do not understand. Since you are an identifiable quantity and might want to run for office some day, you can't afford to openly support Tuthinword's comments because they are not politically correct. I don't plan to ru for anything, so I suppose in your world saying JDH is a bigot is not PC. I can say that, it is my opinion. You have opinions, don't you.
We can play this little game for many threads, JDH is a bigot and you can continue to call me a vicious slanderer or whatever. I believe the truth for you is closer to what Truthinwords said.
Posted by: WVH on June 29, 2007 09:58 AMI would think that a quality education AT ANY AND EVERY SCHOOL in a given school district would be the primary responsibility.
Bussing kids an hour away from their neighborhood does not build community and it lessens parental involvement. Then teachers complain that parents aren't involved.
Why aren't ALL schools magnet schools? Why should a small proportion of students be allowed the "higher quality" education?
Some schools in lower income neighborhoods have discipline problems? Why? Isn't it the responsibility of School and District administration to fix it? If the school needs moe money, shouldn't the school board shift funds?
If we were talking about private schools, I could understand a disparity in, say, elementary schools and the programs and quality of teachers. But in public schools in the same school district? They should all be of equal quality. The primary reason to have to shift students out of their neighbohood should be to balance class loads, and even then, it should only be to the schools nearer to their home neighborhood.
Bring the quailty back into the less economically prosperous neighborhoods, don't export the students. There should not be a drop off in quailty of education for the kids regardless of where their family either chooses, or can afford, to live within the district.
Do not let diversity be an excuse for not holding ALL schools in a district to identical high standards.
Posted by: SouthernRoots on June 29, 2007 10:14 AMAgree.
Posted by: WVH on June 29, 2007 10:40 AMSince the unions control public education, and we know we cannot fire them, then start rotating them. There's no reason a teacher could not be required to rotate schools every few years to even out the good ones (and bad ones) at different schools.
Posted by: Palouse on June 29, 2007 11:10 AMIf you could rotate teachers without a grievance or violation of the contract, that might be a possibility. I think some one would file a grievance.
You are right that voters have voted down charters in the past. Unfortunately, I think things will eventually get so bad that a lot of options that were once unthinkable will be considered.
Posted by: WVH on June 29, 2007 11:30 AMThe evidence is there.
Then why were you incapable of finding it?
Frankly, I don't give a rat's rear whether you like me or not or whether you hate me because of my specific personality or because I happen to be Black.
Good, because I don't care about those things either.
I do, however, like Truthinwords better than you because they are at least honest.
Shrug. Point out one thing I said that was dishonest. (I don't expect you can, just as you cannot show JDH to say anything bigoted.)
So, playing your little game let me advance the following theory. Black people scare the shit out of you.
Shrug. I guess you have me pegged! When you post, a shiver runs down my spine, and I shrivel in terror. That's why, unlike everyone else, I have been afraid to confront you.
You have no ability to deal with situations that you do not understand.
Yep, sure sounds like me! Wow! It's like you are IN MY HEAD.
Since you are an identifiable quantity and might want to run for office some day, you can't afford to openly support Tuthinword's comments because they are not politically correct.
Ha! You really have my number, now! Yep, I never say anything controversial for fear it might bite me in the ass later! You know me so well!
(I am dying here, really. This is hilarious stuff. You must have never read my online journal, where I say controversial things pretty much all the time :-)
The truth of the matter is much simpler. I do not respond to your questions, because you won't respond to mine. I am petty that way.
I don't plan to ru for anything, so I suppose in your world saying JDH is a bigot is not PC.
Heh. Yes, because I care so much about being politically correct. That's why I told conservative friends that I agree with on the issues that this immigration bill is "not amnesty." Sorry, you can't get much less politically correct in the GOP these days. Again, you sure nailed me with that one!
Posted by: pudge on June 29, 2007 12:30 PMIt's certainly better than bussing dozens of students across town. Bring the teachers to them. Rotate select administrators too. Maybe that could help with schools that have repetitive discipline problems.
Posted by: Palouse on June 29, 2007 12:35 PMJust a yes or no answer, do you agree with Truthinwords? You won't answer that question. Regarding JDH, I don't have the time to go through key words to find all his postings. It is most interesting that you won't say anything one way or the other about any issue of race other than calling me a liar and slanderer for giving my opinion on a body of another posters comments. Oh, by the way, you forgot to call me a vicious slanderer.
So, does the sheriff in terms of policing this site have anything to say about the content of Truthinwords' comments? You seem to be able to spend time defending JDH's honor. It is interesting that JDH has spent no time defending his honor. I hope that he has at least sent you flowers. So, yes or no is Truthinwords correct in their comments? I don't expect you to answer that direct question because you can't. Your feelings about race are such that you really can't answer the question. So, I still think Truthinwords is more honest. Let me save you the trouble of a reply.
You vicious slanderer, I don't respond to people that slander other people. You have no proof that JDH is a bigot. Shrug, or does the shrug go somewhere else. Truthinwords, look out before the vicious slanderer calls you a bigot without any evidence. I'm not wasting any time with you because you are a liar. Does the shrug go here?
So, simple question, do you agree with Truthinwords or not?
Posted by: WVH on June 29, 2007 07:54 PMNot to you, no, I will not answer it: not until you provide the evidence that JDH is a bigot.
Regarding JDH, I don't have the time to go through key words to find all his postings.
Shrug. Then I don't have the time to answer your question.
But of course, you're being dishonest here. You did attempt to provide evidence, and you failed. It's not about time, it's that you tried and failed.
It is most interesting that you won't say anything one way or the other about any issue of race
Not to you, no, I will not. Not until you provide the evidence that JDH is a bigot.
So, does the sheriff in terms of policing this site have anything to say about the content of Truthinwords' comments?
Not to you, no.
You seem to be able to spend time defending JDH's honor.
Nope. I don't care about his honor.
So, yes or no is Truthinwords correct in their comments?
Where is the evidence JDH is a bigot?
I don't expect you to answer that direct question because you can't.
LOL. You don't know me well at all if you think I can be so easily goaded.
Your feelings about race are such that you really can't answer the question.
ROTFL, yeah, you got me again! Because I am known as someone who is afraid to speak his mind on, well, anything! That's me!
So, I still think Truthinwords is more honest.
Shrug. Since you know precious little about honesty, that doesn't mean much.
Oh, I did go to your journal. A question as it was not clear to me. Chief Justice Roberts is quoted as saying that Brown v. Board was one of the few cases he felt it was correct to overturn a prior precedent. So, do you think he was correct in that case, it was not clear how you felt from your writing.
Where is your evidence that JDH is a bigot?
Posted by: pudge on June 29, 2007 10:02 PM1. My evidence is that JDH is a bigot is contained in his postings which are located in the archives. According to your journal, you have a degree. You must have taken courses in college that had as part of their assignment reading the body of an author's work and coming to a conclusion about their point of view.
2. I have been playing this little game with you to get a variety of your comments on record so that I could draw some conclusions about you. So, here we go, in my opinion, you attempt to bully and you shade truth. JDH is a bigot and I suspect that were I am to read more of Truthinwords, the conculsion probably would be that they are a bigot as well. One posting does not a bigot make, several postings tend in a direction. Now, based upon what you have written, you are dishonest and probably at minimum resent, if not actively dislike many groups of color. You are not willing to answer any question about whether Brown v. Board of Education was rightly decided or whether Truthinwords was correct using the lame excuse that because I called JDH a bigot you won't answer me. Where is Cato or some of the other progressives when they could be useful. I wish that some other poster would put directly to you the following questions and you wouldn't have the lame excuse that WVH is a liar for calling JDH a bigot, so I don't have to anwer. Would any one put the following two questions to Pudge:
1. Do you agree with the posting by Truthinwords?
2. Do you believe that Justice Roberts was correct
and Brown was one instance where it was correct
to overturn precedent.
I assume if the questions were posted by another you would answer.
My theory is the answer is yes to 1. and no to 2.
Posted by: WVH on July 1, 2007 09:11 AMThen why are you unable to provide that evidence? You tried to do it, and you failed. You tried to find it, so if it is there, why did you fail?
I have been playing this little game with you to get a variety of your comments on record so that I could draw some conclusions about you.
Obviously. Which is why I've given you nothing, because if you won't give me what I want, I won't give you what you want.
So, here we go, in my opinion, you attempt to bully and you shade truth.
Only when confronted with dishonest or nasty people. You're both.
JDH is a bigot
Liar.
Now, based upon what you have written, you are dishonest and probably at minimum resent, if not actively dislike many groups of color.
Not a single thing I've said could lead you to either conclusion. I've said nothing false or misleading, and I've said nothing for racism or in favor of any racist comments or commenters.
You are irrational.
You are not willing to answer any question about whether Brown v. Board of Education was rightly decided or whether Truthinwords was correct using the lame excuse that because I called JDH a bigot you won't answer me.
Shrug. It's not a lame excuse, it is the actual reason. Go ahead: either provide the evidence that JDH is a bigot, or admit you were wrong about being a bigot. And then I will answer your questions.
Where is Cato or some of the other progressives when they could be useful. I wish that some other poster would put directly to you the following questions and you wouldn't have the lame excuse that WVH is a liar for calling JDH a bigot, so I don't have to anwer.
I also wouldn't answer someone else if the purpose were to merely ask a question for YOUR sake. My rules are not arbitrary, and I won't allow them to be so simple-mindedly circumvented.
Posted by: pudge on July 2, 2007 10:38 AM