June 05, 2007
Alright Don, Here are My Debate Thoughts...

Just some quick thoughts on the debate, per Don Ward's prediction.

Easily the most substantive of the debates thus far, but also the least instructive. It basically confirmed that yes, the Big Three are at the top of the heap for a reason. Fred Thompson probably should have been on the stage tonight given how long he's played footsie with the race and that he, like Rudy, is officially in the "exploratory" stage. Either way, call it the Big Four now. Everyone else - even the reliably enjoyable debate presence that is Mike Huckabee - ought to go home now.

Rudy Giuliani - if a pro-choice Republican can win the nomination he's the one. He's obviously in a wonderful comfort zone discussing the war on terror (and in bashing the media), plus he has steadily improved on the debate stage from his near disaster at the Reagan Library. His campaign has, however, been stuck in neutral after the scrutiny of his abortion position around the time of that gathering. If he can weather Thompson's entry into the race then he has a reasonable chance, albeit a very tricky one, to land the nomination. I'm not sold until I see it unfold otherwise though that Giuliani doesn't lose a noticeable level of support to Thompson as the campaign unfolds.

John McCain - amazingly he had some strong points tonight; not what might be expected given that immigration was front and center. That topic undeniably wrecks him with many likely Republican primary voters. Even with a solid showing in some respects tonight, he likely confronts a hard ceiling of support for quite a while because of how that issue has unfolded recently. It's not clear to me how his campaign can fix that...and it's not like Thompson's entry is going to help him any.

Mitt Romney - yet another solid performance tonight. Like him or not, he's good. Noteworthy also because it continues to validate that the least known of the Big Three is a top notch candidate. While the real political die-hards may know that, many "likely primary voters" are still just in the process of gathering information and forming opinions about these guys. Like all the rest of the top tier it will be interesting to see how Thompson's entry does or doesn't affect him, opinions seem to differ a lot on that question in Romney's case.

Fred Thompson - alright, he wasn't on the stage, but I don't think I'm the only one who wants to see a debate with all the Big Four up there. That's probably not fair to the also-rans, but polling and fundraising should speak for themselves in the coming weeks.

I continue to wonder whether Thompson will meet expectations on the long slog of the campaign trail. He's a welcome addition to the race, in no small part because of his clear-voiced, conservative commentary in recent months. But only time will tell if that attractive punditry translates into an effective candidate. I watched a good part of his speech to the Virginia GOP over the weekend and his interview with Sean Hannity after the debate. Candidly, there were some intriguing things said, but particularly in the weekend speech he seemed like just another interesting Senator. It's good the country has people like that, but they have trouble getting elected President for a reason. Let's see whether his non-traditional campaign works, though I'm skeptical about that strategy too. Traditional campaigns are the norm for a reason: they usually win. Thompson now has his shot to show all of us otherwise.

So, can we get a countdown now on shrinking the number of candidates at future debates? We would all be well served seeing just Giuliani, McCain, Romney, and Thompson on stage. In theory that would be a true battle of the heavyweights, just as should probably be seen between Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, and Barack Obama on the Democratic side. Those would be debates worth watching.

Posted by Eric Earling at June 05, 2007 08:19 PM | Email This
Comments
1. I think this is a pretty fair analysis, though I would quibble with Romney's performance. He seemed to struggle at times tonight. Nothing specific I'd site, just a few unpolished answers. Not what I've come to expect from him...

Liked what I saw with Huckabee. He again proved he deserves to be up there with the "big three".

Posted by: Patrick on June 5, 2007 08:32 PM
2. As long as Fred or Rudy get it - I'll be fine. I want a true limited government conservative - one one both social and fiscal issues that will keep the government out of the bedroom (and the uterus) and finally reduce federal spending. The real reason the the Republicans are in a funk is that they are going away from limited-government position that Reagan and others stood for. I want someone who will keep government small, not peeking in every window looking for terrorists. I want someone who will give lip-service to the pro-lifers to get the nomination, but then do nothing about it and keep the status quo. Lets not make this a police-state where abortions are illegal in some states. I mean if you got raped you could always go to a legal state to have an abortion, but most states where it would be illegal would probably make crossing state lines for an abortion a crime. Talk about intrusive government ....

Posted by: FreedomFrank on June 5, 2007 10:55 PM
3. It's a long time before the primaries. No need for people to "go home" now -- it's only June -- and furthermore, it's good for us to hear some of the issues raised by the other candidates.

Bill Clinton was way behind in late 1991. So was John Kerry in late 2003. Granted, both HAD been in front earlier, but still ... a lot can happen. It is unlikely that anything will, but there's simply no need to call it this early. Bring it up again in September and maybe we'll talk (I used to prefer to just let the field shrink gradually on its own, but with the front-loaded season, I'd be open to shrinking it earlier).

Eric, I think you are just dismissing them because you're too lazy to write up your thoughts about them. ;-)

Posted by: pudge on June 5, 2007 11:18 PM
4. Eric, question for you, and even though I've made it clear in the past I'm (usually) a Democrat, I swear this is a serious question, not snark:

Is part of why you want the second/third-tier candidates to drop out now because their natural bases would HAVE to choose between the big four now, as opposed to hedging their bets between a front-runner and their favorite longshot?

Without Tancredo or Hunter, the immigration-first crowd will have to take someone less golden on their pet issue. Without Huckabee or Brownback, then those looking for a bonafide social conservative will have to settle for the candidate they disagree with the least (unless F. Thompson seals the deal there). To a lesser extent, without Gilmore or T. Thompson then there's no one to claim swing-state Governor experience. Even Paul, sort of, speaks to a niche GOP segment with his limited government/libertarian perspective that some voters will relate to.

Based on my limited understanding of GOP primary politics and voters, it seems like either (but not both) Hunter or Tancredo, and either (but not both) Huckabee or Brownback, could make a legitimate run at the nomination if things fall right, but conventional wisdom says they would be more difficult to elect in the general. So I'm wondering if that's why you'd prefer all the second/third-tier candidates go away?

Posted by: mr. smitty on June 6, 2007 04:48 AM
5. I damn sure won't vote for Rudy the Fruity, no matter what. I'd vote for Al Gore before Rudy the transvestite.

Both parties are scared shitless of Ron Paul.

That in itself is enough reason to support Paul.

Posted by: Independent voter on June 6, 2007 05:22 AM
6. pudge & mr. smitty - let me be clear, I'm not saying the lesser-rans should drop out of the race altogether, though some probably will after the Ames Straw Poll. But I am saying it would be nice to see a debate or two with just the serious contenders. Four people on the stage is still a lot to handle and absorb.

Posted by: Eric Earling on June 6, 2007 06:03 AM
7.
Maybe the press doesn't read the newspapers but abortion, the type of abortion that 99% of pro-life groups opposed - partial birth, was struck down by the Supreme Court under the Bush Administration.

I think that most pro-lifers can be persuaded by taking a pill a week after sex or removing a blastocyte is not much different from slipping on a condom. What most people don't want to see are near formed babies being killed because the parents were too dumb to take action earlier.

In that sense, bringing up "abortion" as a topic only helps Giuliani.

Posted by: John Bailo on June 6, 2007 07:49 AM
8. I don't understand how someone calling themselves a 'limited-government conservative' could vote for anyone supporting the unfettered power of the executive to search, imprison, and torture citizens without warrant, trial, or any consequences.

Shame that describes most of this year's field. More the shame that the only anti-torture candidates are McCain and Paul.

Posted by: Constitution on June 6, 2007 07:59 AM
9. I am really having a hard time getting excited about anything the GOP has to offer after putting up with what the current chimpanzee occupying the Whitehouse has pulled. Look I certainly didn't vote for this jackass to listen to a lecture on anthropogenic causality with respect to global warming, nor did I vote for him in order to flood the country with illegal immigrants, nor did I vote for him expecting an exponential increase in spending and expansion of every Federal give away program under the sun. In my estimation this is an institutional problem within the GOP, and I am fed up with the whole stinking mess.

Posted by: JDH on June 6, 2007 08:32 AM
10. JDH, I have always wondered why the "whack job left" hated Bush so much. He was like a gift from heaven to them.

Relax, though, this is a good time for the GOP to get the "tone deaf" leaders back in the "house".

Unlike you, I like them all, except Paul and Tancredo. But, I, too, would like a smaller field during the debates.

My greatest wish is if the GOP convention is split and a candidate is picked in the back room. I hate these decided in March.

Posted by: swatter on June 6, 2007 09:00 AM
11. Hey Constitution (8), there's quite a few radio folks out there wagering real money if you can present somebody to them who has been abused in the scenario you describe.
There's more of what you describe going on within the system of DSHS in our own state, than all of the country under the patriot act.

Posted by: PC on June 6, 2007 09:03 AM
12. Eric: I don't think the public is that dumb that it can't absorb four people talking for two hours.

Posted by: pudge on June 6, 2007 09:07 AM
13. "Unlike you, I like them all" - you have one up on me then. In all honesty I am so livid at the GOP taht I cannot even bring myself to listen to what they have to say. Words have meaning and a man is only as good as his word and the GOP (both State and Federal Party) has, through their actions over the last few years, given me serious reason to doubt that they deserve my trust. If I cannot trust what they are saying, my time is too valuable to spend it listening to them.

Posted by: JDH on June 6, 2007 09:07 AM
14. I can't disagree JDH, but consider the alternative.

Posted by: swatter on June 6, 2007 09:10 AM
15. I'm indeed surprised that RuPaul isn't higher in the standings. Has he changed his hairstyle recently?

Posted by: steve miller on June 6, 2007 09:17 AM
16. swatter I agree with you, but I just don't trust them any more and I don't know what, if anything, they can do to restore my trust. Until they have done that I cannot see myself getting excited about anything they have to say. Of course I can be against what the Democrat Party has to offer, but it certainly is does not offer the same satisfaction as being for the Republican Party.

Posted by: JDH on June 6, 2007 09:40 AM
17. I like Mike (Huckabee)... I could even get excited about him, if everyone would stop dismissing him. He gets great reviews after every debate and he stands firm on many issues that conservativesf care about... I'd like to see more of him and less of the so-called "Big Three" ... I think it's ridiculous that we allow the mainstream media to pick our candidates for us. Rudy, McCain and Romney do absolutely nothing for me.

Posted by: Christina on June 6, 2007 10:04 AM
18. "Like all the rest of the top tier it will be interesting to see how Thompson's entry does or doesn't effect him . . . "

Affect, not effect. Mr. Romney was effected in the manner all of us were, by our mothers and fathers.

Posted by: stu on June 6, 2007 11:28 AM
19. Christina @ 17, One word: AMEN. Well, I can see JDH's point too. After watching W let his folk hang out to dry, Libby as the latest, this immigration farce bill, and the list goes on, where is there a GOP'r with any fight in them?

Posted by: PC on June 6, 2007 12:06 PM
20. This debate was closer than the last two, Eric's about right though. Giuliani & Romney outdid McCain but Huckabee needs another shot. We all like Hunter and Tancredo, but they and the others don't have a chance, let's see where their support falls, maybe they could buoy Huckabee. F. Thompson performed on par with the other candidates when Fox interviews, nothing special there.

However, when Thompson enters, the delegate count will be Giuliani, McCain, Thompson, Romney with Giuliani taking 60% of the delegates. End result is that it will not be a kind holiday season this winter when the McCain's, Romney's, and Thompson's take off their kids gloves and try to pummel the frontrunner.

Posted by: Doug on June 6, 2007 12:32 PM
21. Ron Paul won it again....made all the other candidates look like fools. If only the other candidates could speak the truth instead of fudging history and dodging questions.

Posted by: Ron Paula on June 6, 2007 01:52 PM
22. That is the danger, isn't it, with front loading all the primaries? McCain, Thompson and Romney eat their own votes, while Giuliani gets the majority and like you say, maybe 60% of the delegates.

Posted by: swatter on June 6, 2007 02:24 PM
23. Eric,

Disagree with you for now about the second and third-tier candidates up on stage. With the three annointed front-runners being so "moderate" it is healthy for the party to have some individuals with positions that will prevent McCain, Giuliani or Romney from slopping any further over to the left.
If anything, Huckabee and Hunter and others act as a Greek Chorus while ensuring that the beliefs of the majority of Republicans aren't given short-shrift in the nomination process.

Posted by: Don Ward on June 6, 2007 03:35 PM
24. If you combine the Greek Chorus with one of the also-rans, do you then have another front-runner? That is the question.

Posted by: swatter on June 6, 2007 03:50 PM
25. It is too early to focus much attention on these so-called debates.
I liked Dennis Praeger's analysis on it though. Rudy, Fred Thompson or Mitt Romney would be OK. If terrorism is an issue front and center - the Republicans will have the advantage that they need. Iraq and Illegal immigration play into it also.

It is wise from here on out to bash Bush on the issues he richly deserves to be bashed on, such at the last two I mentioned. Also, they need to stop elevating Hillary Clinton - that is playing in to the hands of the Dems - they give her too much credit. What has she done in the Senate ? Not diddly squat ! Rudy is clearly capable of beating her as is Fred T. and probably Mitt Romney. Ironically, they would have a tougher time with Obama.

Posted by: KS on June 6, 2007 07:32 PM
26. 'We Need to Move Now'
Cancer Patients Urge FDA Approval of Provenge, As Their Survival Options Dwindle
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?ei=UTF-8&vid=617207&partner=yvideo&fr=&.fdbk=rev:0

http://www.abcnews.go.com/WN/MedicineCut...

http://www.provenge.blogspot.com/

http://www.provengenow.org/

Posted by: Republicans for the cure on Prostate Cancer on June 6, 2007 08:11 PM
27. Both parties are scared shitless of Ron Paul.


Incorrect. Both parties are LAUGHING themselves shitless about Ron Paul. HUGE difference.

Posted by: Cliff on June 6, 2007 08:46 PM
28. It's comments like stu's that almost make me enjoy the typos that regrettably occur at times in the hasty world of blogging. Though the typo is fixed now.

Posted by: Eric Earling on June 6, 2007 09:18 PM
29. Face it. The war is unpopular.
If the R's nominate an Iraq hawk they will lose.
Ron Paul has great credibility on this issue since he has voted against the war, but Hillary et al have not.
He is the only real threat the R's could pose to the D's given popular sentiment on the war.
You have a choice:
Nominate Ron Paul and have a chance for a partisan R victory
OR
Nominate anyone else and lose. Fall on your sword over the failed Iraq policy.

Your choice.

I'll probably be voting Libertarian.

Posted by: Bruce Guthrie on June 6, 2007 10:03 PM
30. I know it was a different time and a different election, but Rudy got out of the race for Senator against Clinton. The momentum was shifting to Clinton at the time and press was just hammering Giuliani.

But, we never got to see the election results against them.

Posted by: swatter on June 7, 2007 07:17 AM
31. And now Rudy is quitting the Iowa straw poll because he would lose. Rudy, you better show up, or my choice becomes clearer and you ain't it.

Posted by: swatter on June 7, 2007 12:24 PM
32. The "top three" should all drop out and compete for the Democrat nomination, because their core principles (except for Romney, who, like Bill Clinton, is simply a chameleon, able to simulate any principles) agree most with the Democrats.
I say if they agree with the Democrats 80% of the time they are their friends, not their enemy.
Full story: Click on my name.

Posted by: Doug Parris on June 10, 2007 09:28 PM
Post a comment
Name:


Email Address:


URL:


Comments:


Remember info?