For those of you who were actually working yesterday and couldn't make it, I covered the May 1st rally and march for illegal immigration in Seattle. You can see more pictures and my comments at this post on the My Own Side blog.
Posted by byrond at May 02, 2007 07:17 PM | Email ThisMexicans, Mexican-Americans, and Americans of Mexican descent: Thank you. Thanks for all that you have done and continue to do for the United States of America. Become citizens and vote!
Posted by: David Mathews on May 2, 2007 07:20 PMBetter idea for ya... If you like them apples, how 'bout you go to where they came from? Sounds more like your kind of utopia, anyway.
You can be packed up and deported along with the rest of the illegals. I'll even contribute to cover the cost. You're a loser and a disgrace.
Posted by: BRC on May 2, 2007 07:34 PMThese apples are in America where they belong. They beautiful America and belong here.
Aren't they pretty? Aren't they beautiful?
Posted by: David Mathews on May 2, 2007 07:40 PMThanks for breaking our laws to bring in low IQ criminals instead of honest hard working immigrants like my co-worker from Japan who has been busting his ass to become a legal citizen. He went through the process and during that time contributed taxes, and paid for his healthcare, food and housing.
Yes thanks for flooding our schools, hospitals, welfare offices, and depleting resources.
You certainly deserve a break that no one else in the history of the nation received, and deserve something for nothing but your contempt simply because democrats would like to buy your vote at my expense.
Thanks for taking a dump in the fields and spreading your third world diseases into our food chain.
Thanks for insulting our country, language, traditions, etc while taking advantage of the perks your native countries would never dream of supplying to you.
Oh and my brother, co-worker, neighbor, and several others would like to personally thank the illegal aliens who crashed their cars into them and didn't have a drivers license let alone car insurance and left them high and dry.
I have a lot more respect for immigrants who went through the process, bust their ass, and love and protect this country.
You would like fat under age girls.
Posted by: DJ on May 2, 2007 08:08 PM1 Find a place for a meeting. Libraries or coffee shops are good.
2 Let your local news in on what you are trying to do. Patriots or Minutemen are good key words that will let others know what your group is about.
3 Hold a meeting. Get a small group of people elected to help keep things organized and your group functioning.
4 Visit your local city council or other public meetings and let them know how you feel.
Rallies are a good way to let people in your area know what your group is about. To keep your group going it can be helpful to have a flyer ready to let people know of your next meeting or rally.
Like D Mathwes poster here, another twisted internationalist self-hate view. "me first--the whatever-country second."
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on May 2, 2007 08:13 PMIf they're not going to become citizens, then they should go back to the countries where they are citizens.
Posted by: thecomputerguy on May 2, 2007 09:00 PMAdd the word precious and you're an exact match for Golum from The Ring Trilogy. Posted by: katomar on May 2, 2007 09:24 PM
DM - do us a favor and go try that in Mexico holding a flag of France and see you fare...
Posted by: KS on May 2, 2007 09:30 PM
Any Mexican marching on the streets of the US should be protesting the weak stance of the US government towards pushing reforms in Mexico. It is their own government (not ours), as represented by that flag, that has failed them. Not the US.
Posted by: BananaLand on May 2, 2007 09:57 PMI repeat the same garbage over & over again.
Cut-and-paste....Leftist talking points.
It's so easy.
I crave attention. You give it to me.
It's like nicotine or meth to me.
I gotta have it.
FEED ME!!!
Pullease Posted by: David Mathews Ego on May 2, 2007 10:23 PM
The immigrants are here. They aren't leaving.
They will vote. I imagine that they won't vote for Republican Racists.
Posted by: David Mathews on May 3, 2007 04:38 AM> wetback parasites
An excellent example of how prejudice & bigotry are the primary motivating force behind the anti-immigration movement.
Don't you know ... this has always been the case.
The United States of America has a dismal history of racism, prejudice & bigotry.
Too bad for you, though, that you are losing this battle in a big way.
The immigration war is the domestic political equivalent of the Iraq war. You people want to become the minority party forever, don't you?
Posted by: David Mathews on May 3, 2007 06:55 AMwould you rather live in Stockholm or Tijuana? we can choose what our cities sort of look like.
Posted by: righton on May 3, 2007 07:09 AMBut it's safe to say that there are many, and that they will never vote for the racist, hate-filled agenda that Juandos and KS represent.
"Commie pinko scumsuckers." You silly little man.
Posted by: ivan on May 3, 2007 07:09 AMWhy are they so proud of the language of their conquerors?
Posted by: Libertarian on May 3, 2007 07:42 AM> Why are they so proud of the language of their conquerors?
Huh?
Conservatives are ignorant, too, aren't they?
Racist, prejudiced, bigoted, anti-scientific, and ignorant. At least they still have God on their side!
God bless the Mexicans. They will outnumber the conservatives soon.
Posted by: David Mathews on May 3, 2007 07:49 AMDelusional Dave whines: "The United States of America has a dismal history of racism, prejudice & bigotry. Too bad for you, though, that you are losing this battle in a big way"...
What can one do or say about this bit of drivel besides laugh at him? Poor, ole Delusional Dave is never one to let facts get in the way of his tenuous grip on reality...
Actually Delusional Dave, you should get out more and visit the real world like Mexico for instance if you really want to find out about a, 'dismal history of racism, prejudice & bigotry'...
Hey Delusional Dave since L.A. is a sanctuary city do you think its merely coincidence that MS-13 blossomed there?
Posted by: juandos on May 3, 2007 07:56 AMPatriotic Americans will reject your racist filth in the end.
Posted by: ivan on May 3, 2007 08:12 AM1. Larry are you quitting your position on the council to stay in the streets until the D.C. politicians pass laws that provide a pathway to citizenship?
2. Larry the D.C. politicians have passed laws that provide a pathway to legal citizenship.
The May 1st rally and march for illegal immigration in Seattle. Keep the pictures coming the more the better. Immigration officials love it. Immigration has their cameras on for future pick ups.
Posted by: George on May 3, 2007 08:13 AM
I applaud that post. I want conservatives to speak up and reveal the depths of their hatred, racism, prejudice and bigotry.
Such words will help the public make wiser decisions in the next election.
Neocon neonazis ... how does that sound to you?
Do you people want to commit a Holocaust against the Mexicans?
Or would you prefer to declare war on Mexico?
Speak, speak, speak conservatives. Reveal the darkness in your soul. Express yourself. The world needs to become aware of your evil nature.
Posted by: David Mathews on May 3, 2007 08:42 AMPosted by David Mathews at May 3, 2007 07:49 AM
========
Well, it's a cinch that they outnumber the Libertarians now. After all, having out-of-wedlock births is an almost guaranteed route to poverty as well as a method for increasing your voting bloc. Aren't most of these folks Catholic? From my Catholic upbringing, I seem to remember it being sinful to have sex outside of marriage. Do these folks adhere to that particular Church teaching? Or is it just inconvenient to their agenda?
But that's OK: they can force the Libertarians and conservatives to pick up the tab. That's the ultimate goal. Plus "taking back" the land stolen from the Azrtecs and whoever else they can think of to justify their lame claims.
We CANNOT adopt Centrla and Latin America, any more than we can adopt a billion people from Asia.
BTW, Dave, La Rasa is a racist, racist organization.
Posted by: Libertarian on May 3, 2007 08:42 AMGod have mercy upon any religious person taking moral advice from a conservative racist.
Doesn't Jesus teach you, "Love your neighbor"?
That doesn't seem so compatible with the racism, prejudice, bigotry & hatred which are common currency among conservatives & libertarians.
May God have mercy upon your own depraved soul, libertarian.
Posted by: David Mathews on May 3, 2007 08:57 AMYou are the poster child for why I can't WAIT until Atlas shrugs.
Posted by: John Galt on May 3, 2007 08:59 AMI and the vast, overwhelming majority of Americans affiliate myself with working people, not with racist haters like you.
Posted by: ivan on May 3, 2007 09:55 AMIf you feel so strongly about your beliefs, live them. Surrender all your personal wealth to the monolith of "progressive" idealogy and dedicate yourself to it.
BTW, I'm not a conservative, I'm a Libertarian. Which is to say I'm a Democrat who belives in individual responsibility and a Republican who believes in individual rights. If you think I'm a racist for wanting Mexicans to be Mexicans in Mexico, or for wanting Asians to be Asians in Asia, or for sending an illegal Brit back to the UK before he stalks his ex-girlfirend and then blows her brains out over at the School of Architecture at the U-Dub, then so be it!!
Funny how the local-yokel newsies never mention the fact the Seattle cops caught that guy for DUI, knew he was an illega, yet didn't turn him over to ICE. Political correctness contributed directly to that girl's murder.
Posted by: Libertarian on May 3, 2007 09:57 AMWell considering the your vaunted Mexican invader breeds like a cockroach why would it suprise you David Matthews?
And the answer is, "David's grip on reality is tenuous at best"...
Come on David, sure I'm jerking your chain a little bit but dude, you got to come to grips with reality...
Why no compassion on your part for the people who want to lawfully move here and then become citizens?
Why do you applaud law breakers?
Posted by: juandos on May 3, 2007 10:10 AMLike LA, there is a real explosion coming between the low-income groups over resources and jobs. Unions, who face declining native membership are endorsing open immigration in hopes of building their declining membership. Churches, notably the Catholic church are trying to do the same.
There should be a serious discussion of the impacts of immigration, migration or whatever it is called on the infrustructure like hospitals and schools as well as the natural environment. There should also be a discussion of the impacts on the wage rate and liveable wages.
Politicians pander to votes, not people. Most pols don't care about impacts, just getting elected and preserving their power.
Posted by: WVH on May 3, 2007 10:11 AMBetter grab your nitro pills pardner: I agree with you!
Posted by: Libertarian on May 3, 2007 11:22 AMI think I have to take the afternoon off and recover. :-)
Posted by: WVH on May 3, 2007 11:37 AMUndocumented Immigrants = Felons
We want all LEGAL immigrants.
http://www.minutemanhq.com/state/index.php?chapter=wa
Thanks!
Greg
Like those countries, there are also large numbers of individuals, also, who get direct or indirect benefits from state wealth transfers and form a powerful voting block, in fact a mjority of the population, making it impossilbe to reform.
The sad bit about these people, for whom I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever, is that what they advocate is in fact an extension of that stupid system to the US. They don't understand that were we do do as we asked they would have to head somewhere else to escape the resulting mess.
I had a former Soviet friend who said that when he escaped to Europe they made him feel right at home -- So he had to escape again.
Ivan - you have no basis for calling me what you really are - a racist. You have a severe mental disorder and should seek treatment ASAP.
Posted by: KS on May 3, 2007 12:22 PMI prefer this country to be a nation of laws and enforce existing laws regarding immigration to all, regardless of race, religion or creed.
Posted by: KS on May 3, 2007 12:32 PMhttp://wfir.org/966PETITIONFAVORITE.pdf Posted by: George on May 3, 2007 12:37 PM
They don't have enough brain cells to realize it's not about race, it's about law.
They don't have enough brain cells to realize it's not about bigotry, it's about felons.
They don't have enough brain cells to realize it's not about what language they speak, it's about what laws the break.
Don't even bother with them, they are beyond any form of help.
Thanks!
Greg
They don't have enough brain cells to realize it's not about race, it's about law.
They don't have enough brain cells to realize it's not about bigotry, it's about felonies.
They don't have enough brain cells to realize it's not about what language they speak, it's about what laws they break.
Don't even bother with them, they are beyond any form of help.
Thanks!
Greg
5 million of our older Americans have not signed up yet for their Medicare, Part D, drug plan ------ they are old and confused and haven't the energy to tie up rush hour traffic across the contry.
We are NOT going to grant them an extension.
However, 12 million illegal aliens are in our country and we are going to allow them to stay, to protest, to procreate, to receive support monies, to attend our schools, to avoid paying income taxes, tohave our teachers take 300 hours of ESL (English as a Second Language) training at our expense, etc.
WE MUST REALLY DISLIKE OUR OLD PEOPLE......
OR WE MUST REALLY LOVE LAWBREAKERS!!!
Don't forget to pay your taxes......
12 million ILLEGAL ALIENS are depending on you!
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on May 3, 2007 01:04 PM
Liar! Read the posts on this thread and tell me it's not about racism.
Actually, it's all about the failure of conservatism and conservatives, and their four methods of operation:
1. Every man for himself.
2. Them as has gets.
3. Devil take the hindmost.
4. Blame the victim.
Good luck in the next election -- losers!
And he plays the race card just for good measure.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on May 3, 2007 01:58 PMIf the ILLEGALs dont have to follow the laws, then I guess us LEGALS dont either - right?
Posted by: Ann on May 3, 2007 03:16 PMI have read through these comments and must complain: You people aren't saying much, and what you are saying isn't going to help you win future elections.
The Republican party is dying because of its extremists, racists, and xenophobes.
Let it die!
I am of the opinion that bigots should express their bigotry. The louder that bigots speak the better.
Hatred worked for the Nazis, but it won't work for the Republicans. We are living in the 21st century. Americans of Mexican decent will vote against xenophobia, racism and bigotry. I and millions of other Americans will do so as well.
Too bad for the Republican party!
Posted by: David Mathews on May 3, 2007 07:05 PMFor me it is not about racism. I am Black. My interest in in helping low-income children receive a decent basic education. Since the Great Society of Lyndon Johnson, I have to look at Blacks and say we still have an entrenched permanent underclass, so much for the Great Society. Your hometown, Philly is now the murder capital of the US. For me, it is about moving people into a better standard of living. Why don't you advocate reform in Mexico?
Mass migration depresses wages and gives fewer a chance at a liveable wage, isn't that your mantra against Walmart? I think secular progressives like you are like the old Bolsheviks, you need a permanent underclass to maintain your elite position. Having seen your picture, I know that unlike Edwards, you aren't getting $400 haircuts.
I see that you are one of those crusty dried up bitter trolls who have nothing better to do in life but go to conservative blogs and spew the vitriolic bat guano fed to you by your masters.
I had one of those once on my blog and bitch slapped her pathetic ass back to the stone ages. I enjoyed that. You make her look smart and that, my dear, is saying a lot.
I say all criminal invaders can go feck themselves, and like any good racist, I can say that because my husband is a LEGAL immigrant.
And those of you here who make statements like "but I want all illegals to go home" are kidding yourselves. And on a side note, you are feeding the P.C.B.S. machine. Sure they should all go home, but the real problem is with the Mexicans and if you can't say it, I will.
I live on the border and I don't see Canadian illegal invader gangs shooting people every day pumping drugs into everyone they can reach; I see the Mexican Mafia doing that. I don't see Australian illegal immigrants demanding we say G'Day Mate, rather than hello. I don't see massive hoardes of criminal invading Dutch demanding we put everything in their language and give them RIGHTS. I do not see tens of thousands of Vietnamese taking to the streets with signs that say "Gringo Go Home!" Nor have I ever seen entire neighborhoods thrashed and turned into ghettos by illegal immigrants from the Ukraine, Ireland or Greece.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick to death of watching this country politically correct itself into a third world country. Breaks my heart.
Have a nice night.
Posted by: Jenn on May 3, 2007 09:48 PM
> I say all criminal invaders can go feck themselves, and like any good racist, I can say that because my husband is a LEGAL immigrant.
Look, Jenn, I really don't care what you think.
I pity your poor husband. Going through all that trouble to immigrate to America and suffeeing the misfortune of marrying you.
Now, sweet Jenn of the conservative KKK, I am certain that your political moment has passed. The Mexicans are not so very much in danger from conservative racists because George W. Bush has destroyed the Republican party for at least a generation.
Over the next generation, too, the population of hispanics in America will exceed the population of lily-white racists. From that standpoint, the KKK crowd doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of expelling the Mexicans from this land.
How does it feel to become a minority in your own country, Jenn?
Doesn't it make you so very angry?
I can tell it makes you seeth inside. What a pathetic, miserable person you are, Jenn! What a sad, angry, racist woman!
Too bad for you Jenn. Too bad for the Republican party that it is associated with racist such as yourself.
God bless America!
Posted by: David Mathews on May 4, 2007 04:04 AMNo, David, the Mexicans aren't in any danger, but you are. You live in Florida. We're taking that stolen land over, land that you white people stole from us. You live there now so you're responsible. Your ancestors stole it from us and we're going to get you for that. My homies and I know where you live. You have a lot of money and we don't. We're coming to rip off your lily-white guilt-ridden ass. Just remember how much we hate you because of your white skin when we hold the knife to your throat. Maybe as you tremble before our superior brown race and plead for your life you'll change your mind.
But I doubt it. To change your mind, you need a brain first.
Posted by: La Raza Militant on May 4, 2007 05:49 AMConservatives are so scared, aren't they? Lily-white conservative racists are the most terrified people on the planet.
Conservativism is politics for the weak & uneducated bigots of the world.
You are losing, aren't you?
The big bag Mexicans are taking your American entitlement away, aren't they?
That's great. I applaud their victory. May the Mexicans win.
Posted by: David Mathews on May 4, 2007 05:56 AMassimilate legally or leave. no benefits to illegals. it's the same rule (or more severe) in virtually any other country. not an unreasonable expectation for any country & to preserve its sovereignty.
it's not about tear-jerking human interest stories. we are not the one-way-valve dumping ground for the world's failed governments who do not (first) better their own back yards for their own citizens with their own resources like oil, etc.
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on May 4, 2007 06:48 AMSenator Mc Cauls website
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on May 4, 2007 10:59 AM
A Sad Parrallel...
I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed. Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food.
But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table...everywhere. Then some of the birds turned mean: They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket. And others birds were boisterous and loud: They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.
After a while, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore. I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio. Soon, the back yard was like it used to be...quiet, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.
Now lets see...our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, free education and allows anyone born here to be a automatic citizen. Then the illegals came by the tens of thousands. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families: you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor: you child's 2nd grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn't speak English: Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to press "one" to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than "Old Glory" are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.
Maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder.
http://www.tvclips.org/ipoll/
Posted by: TVclips on May 5, 2007 10:29 AM> Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to press "one" to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than "Old Glory" are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.
Americans are the only idiots in this world who cannot bear the thought of merely hearing another language.
I suspect that this is an evidence of the extreme laziness and stupidity of the prejudiced Americans.
Europeans that I meet on a regular basis can speak two, three or more languages. Most of the hispanics that I meet are bilingual ... and very beautiful, too.
As for myself: I only speak English but I love the sound of Spanish and the numerous other languages spoken by the people that I meet on a daily basis.
Look, if you people cannot stand the thought of associating with people of Mexican descent who happen to speak Spanish fluently, go back to Europe!
I guess you don't mind your yard being being filled with bird droppings. Personally I couldn't stand the stench or the mess no matter how beautiful the birds sang. I guess it all comes down to tolerance. I would presume your birdfeeder is filled with bird droppings. But I guess you can live with it no matter how much the bird feed costs or how bad the stench is. I can't. I love birds, especially chickens and turkeys. I love them when they feed my family - not when I feed them. Get it?
Posted by: sammy on May 5, 2007 05:43 PMYour second problem is that you seem to hate yourself, and you find expression in that through anti-Americanism. You yearn to be something you're not, and you try to compensate for that by being against what you obviously are, a gringo, as we say in the barrio. You've led a privileged and comfortable existence, and you feel guilty about that and try to cover it over with bluster and bravado. Since you obviously are, as we say, un niño, I should explain something to you. Being anti-something doesn't make you pro-something else. You're trying to curry favor with anti-American groups as an expression of your anti-Americanism, but, all I can say is, give it up. You're utterly transparent in your vanity and hypocrisy. And none of those groups will give you the time of day if they take over because what matters to racist groups like La Raza and the Black Panthers isn't what you say, it's the color of your skin. And, as much as you'd like to think otherwise, nothing you say or do will change that.
Posted by: Linguist on May 6, 2007 07:56 AM> Well, I speak six languages myself, and I can tell you that knowing and speaking a language is a lot different than just listening to it spoken.
Oh my, I am impressed. Such a profound principle ... and I had the good fortune of learing it from a linguist.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Any more great revelations from such an astute person?
> Your second problem is that you seem to hate yourself, and you find expression in that through anti-Americanism.
Opposition to racism, prejudice, and xenophobia do not constitute anti-Americans except to that very small minority of Americans who are racists, bigots, and xenophobes.
As for myself, I love America and that is why I want the Mexicans to enjoy all of the benefits of life and employment here, including the responsibilities of citizenship and voting in elections.
Until that time comes, I will have to defend these 11- to 20-million people from racists, bigots and xenophobes.
Posted by: David Mathews on May 6, 2007 08:47 AMThe situation for all low-income people including migrants in this country will get worse. Meanwhile corrupt oligarchs like Carlos Slim and dictators like Mugabe all over the world are smiling. Thanks, David, et al. and others like you for making the world a much better place by not condemning true evil and attacking the corrupt systems and oligrachs that are the true threat. /s/ Posted by: WVH on May 6, 2007 10:25 AM
People like David view the world in an emotional, unrealistic and hypocritical manner. So called "progressives" see only what they want to see and then base their emotional responses on those chosen items that fit their agenda. As you have probably noted I like to use analogies. The bird analogy is an excellent example. Note David's response. Rambling and emotional with no coherent or logical response except to lash out with "racism and bigotry" against me. In his "world" ALL the birds would be welcome, ALL the birds would be fed etc...and all the while he would be smiling as the food ran out and the feces piled up. But David, and those like him would feel SO good about themselves. The great civilization that was Rome was destroyed from within from the same mindset that liberals spout today. Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. I wonder what the Roman "progressives" were thinking as the barbarians were entering Rome? I bet, like David, they felt SO self righteous.
Posted by: sammy on May 6, 2007 11:08 AM> dictators like Mugabe all over the world are smiling
Oh ... you are attacking the Mexican immigrants in order to oppose Mugabe?
Racism must have some benefits to racists. That much is certain. But imagining that you are helping the people of Zimbabwe is something much worse than fantasy.
Mexico is poor. America is rich. I am in favor of Americans becoming poorer and the Mexicans becoming richer. But I know that in future both America and Mexico will become impoverished, such is life.
Posted by: David Mathews on May 6, 2007 11:11 AMMexico is rich in natural resources, you didn't comment on Carlos Slim and other Mexican oligarchs who are really raping that country. Oh, I understand that there is an issue in Pompano Beach about the building of a massive Islamic Center. Are you and your group hoping to get funding from Slim for the building? You and your little Islamofacist collective are so transparent. If you hate this country so much, why don't some of the members of your collective go back to their home countries? I suppose the tactic of your collective is to troll web sites in search of the disaffected and disillusioned loners in hope that they will contact you using your e-mail address and thus become recruits. When I was in London, in certain neighborhoods recruiters from the radical Mosques actively recruited young immigrants on the dole. I guess your tool is the web.
Posted by: WVH on May 6, 2007 11:41 AMYou are conflating some of your bogeymen in post #80.
Posted by: David Mathews on May 6, 2007 08:06 PMGuess the night blogging crew is on.
1. How do you feel about Carlos Slim and the other oligarchs?
I remember a post, the topic was genocide against Black Africans by Islamofacists. Two posters from that region, I expect they still read this blog and you decided that people that disagree with you were paranoid. If one goes to the Goebels playbook, the playbook of secular progressives like Soros, and the Islamofacist playbook, this is how to deflect answering any questions;
1. Demonize the opponent by calling them paranoid
or a bigot
2. The "big lie" Continually state the same mis
information over and over again. Disregard
any evidence to the contrary.
3. Actively recruit those that feel marginalized
by society as they are more malleable.
This discussion is really about the readers, isn't it? What you are looking for is the next
John Walker Linn (American Taliban) or Richard Reid (Shoe bomber) You know that you will never be able to convince people here with your arguments. But, out there is a lonely soul who is looking for some kind of acceptance and that is what your group wants so they can do your dirty work for you. Preferably, some one that cannot be profiled by the culture, like Linn. At one time, I thought you should be allowed to post here because of free speach. Now, I realize that you are simply trolling for recruits. I hope they ban your little collective so you have to recruit elsewhere.
Major cities like Chicago are filled with undocumented eastern europeans - have been for decades. not much outrage
In recent months - for PR reasons- lighter complected undocumenteds are more likely to get hired.
More Mexicans - yes - but there's no high moral or legal ground in targeting Mexicans - just because more of them are here. Insist on calling them criminals - and you sound like morons.
You dilute the meaning of the word "criminal"
Do you call your kid a "criminal" when he swipes $5 or a beer from the refrigerator.
And then there's jay walking criminal sons-of-bitches.
Justice is a concept that is bigger than the law - always has been
always will be. Thank GOD
It's fun reading these posts from such brilliant perceptive minds.
The same minds that failed to see that Sheryl Crow was making a (very funny tongue in cheek ) joke with her TP comments. The same minds jumped on & crucified the straw man (woman actually) that was subsequently created when she was actually siding with the right by her sarcastic comments.
In WA state sales tax is paid by every one. (sounds like paying taxes to me)
Free programs are always overused by opportunists - and when you add in cultuaral diffreences for Mexican people - they will take what we give them.
They will also GIVE far more of themselves - than they take as they are given the opportunity- as they are striving to survive ... and prosper.
They are striving outside the box painted by you racist criminal jaywalking beer stealing pseudomoral RACIST sons-of-bitches who don't have eyes or words for the justice God has written in your heats
Posted by: juan2000 on May 6, 2007 09:41 PM1. I got Sheryl's joke. I read Drudge and Huffington daily. Sheryl was a high school kid that I chided for some comments that were racially insensitive. Oh Sheryl, if you are reading, my Oxford Desk dictionay says the spelling is nom de plume, English or nome de plume, Fr. So, sic yourself.
2. Now, let's deal with your comments. My comments are that secular progressives like you should be working on reforming the governments where migrants come from. Since the Eastern Europeans aren't at this point holding mass rallies, Mexicans get the attention. If you want to get into a pissing match about racism -how about Haitians are sent back home in their rickity boats and Cubans that make land are welcomed? Your racism charge is bogus.
3. Unfettered immigration is bad, because it overwhelms services and infrastructure. The question to you Juan is are you demanding reform in Mexico which will give Mexico's citizens a decent chance at home? Why are demonstrations demanding fairer government not being held in Mexico city? Why aren't you concerned that millions are voluntarily leaving a country? Why does Mexico have a strict immigration policy when it catches Central American undocumented workers?
I await your answers.
Posted by: WVH on May 6, 2007 10:41 PMIn addition to the questions above, in response to your comment about taxation, please comment on the following:
Costs
The National Research Council has estimated that the net fiscal cost of immigration ranges from $11 billion to $22 billion per year, with most government expenditures on immigrants coming from state and local coffers, while most taxes paid by immigrants go to the federal treasury. The net deficit is caused by a low level of tax payments by immigrants, because they are disproportionately low-skilled and thus earn low wages, and a higher rate of consumption of government services, both because of their relative poverty and their higher fertility.
This is especially true of illegal immigration. Even though illegal aliens make little use of welfare, from which they are generally barred, the costs of illegal immigration in terms of government expenditures for education, criminal justice, and emergency medical care are significant. California has estimated that the net cost to the state of providing government services to illegal immigrants approached $3 billion during a single fiscal year. The fact that states must bear the cost of federal failure turns illegal immigration, in effect, into one of the largest unfunded federal mandates.
Publications:
Backgrounder: The Impact of New Immigrants on Young Native-Born Workers, 2000-2005, by Andrew Sum, Paul Harrington, and Ishwar Khatiwada
Testimony: "SAVE: A Useful Tool for State Agencies," Testimony Before The Joint Committee on Housing, Massachusetts State House, September 20, 2005
Statement of Jessica M.Vaughan, Senior Policy Analyst, Center for Immigration Studies
United States Technological Superiority and the Losses From Migration
by Donald R. Davis and David E. Weinstein
Center for Immigration Studies Backgrounder. February 2005
Social Security 'Totalization': Examining a Lopsided Agreement with Mexico
by Marti Dinerstein
Center Paper 23: The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget
by Steven A. Camarota, August 2004
Immigration in a Time of Recession: An Examination of Trends Since 2000
by Steven A. Camarota
November 2003
.pdf version
Back Where We Started: An Examination of Trends in Immigrant Welfare Use Since Welfare Reform
by Steven A. Camarota
Center for Immigration Studies Backgrounder, March 2003
pdf version
Panel Discussion Transcript
The Impact of Welfare Reform on Immigrant Welfare Use
by George Borjas
Center for Immigration Studies, March 2002
pdf version
Panel Discussion Transcript
Stamp Act: Immigrants Si, Immigration No
by Mark Krikorian
National Review Online, January 15, 2002
Public Charge Doctrine: A Fundamental Principle of American Immigration Policy
by James R. Edwards, Jr.
Center for Immigration Studies Backgrounder, May 2001
pdf version
Distorted Incentives: The United States Pays the University of California Twice as Much to Educate Foreign Graduate Students as American Ones
Center for Immigration Studies Backgrounder, February 2000
pdf version
The Impact of New Americans: A Review and Analysis of the National Research Council's The New Americans: Economic, Demographic, and Fiscal Effects of Immigration
by Steven A. Camarota and Leon Bouvier
Center for Immigration Studies Report, December 1999
Immigration and California Communities
by William A.V. Clark, UCLA
Center for Immigration Studies Backgrounder, February 1999
Measuring the Fallout: The Cost of the IRCA Amnesty After 10 Years
by David Simcox
Center for Immigration Studies Backgrounder, May 1997
Immigration and Welfare: The Devil Is in the Details
by Mark Krikorian
p. 13 in Immigration Review no. 28, Spring 1997
The Costs of Immigration: Assessing a Conflicted Issue
by David Simcox, John Martin, and Rosemary Jenks
Center for Immigration Studies Backgrounder, September 1994 (summary only)
Coverage
http://www.cis.org/topics/costs.html
They want your job, your property, and your country.
Glad you got Sheryl's joke.
Did someone else have to tell you it was a joke.
I hope not.
Silly as it may seem therein lies the the real problem.
Too many card carrying repubs are so bent on disagreeing with the opposition - they don't bother to listen to what they say. This certainly happens on the other side as well. The media makes big money off such bullsh*t too & spoon feeds it to the masses. I certainly guilty of these "blindspots" as well.
Racism is the biggest blindspot - shared by all- minorities included. I believe we should ernestly try to to overcome these blindspots as unnatural as that may be.
You sited a pretty long list of studies by "reputable" sources. If I wanted to take the time do you suppose i could find reputable studies that scew in the other direction ?
In your post I saw no viable remedy for the immigration problem.
I have read strongly worded postings- one very popular notion: "they should get in line like everybody else". Sorry to say- the teller doesn't have any tickets for these people- no matter how long they wait. i think that's what the issue is all about.
Mexican people have been crossing the border for decades doing menial labor. The sudden awareness of this reality do to the sheer numbers that have accumulated force us to change something.
The realities that: they are here (many for over a decade); they provide labor services we have all come to rely on in some way -be it first second or third hand' and our economy will take a HUGE hit if we do something radical - like trying to remove them.
Another BIG reality that policy makers won't ignore is that Mexico is our 2nd biggest supplier of oil. We flat out can't afford to piss them (the Mexican gvmt.)off.
Lastly- these hispanic people have more old school ethics of hard work & family than our own homegrown youth. (Youth gangs & violent behavior are big anywhere you find poor people in the inner city)
I believe these realities trump the conclusions the studies you sited might lead the reader to.
PS - msoft can manipulate the system to bring in 1000's of far eastern computer geeks to displace our homegrown computer geeks legally.
There is no such legal strong arm for the pickers & roofers & landscapers - but we need them just the same.
My vote is to find some form of humane compromise to give those here legitimacy. My only caution - is that the legitimacy will ruin them-when they learn that they don't have to work to eat in America
1. First, I am an indie, not a pubbie
2. Believe it or not, I have a sense of humor and
got the joke.
3. If you have reputable studies that support your
position, cite them. You do your own research.
4. You are not going to like my next comment,
you can do that Sharpton/Jackson thing and
call anyone disagreeing with you a racist,
that is so tired. So feel free to argue:
a. The most humane thing that can be
done is to reform the country of origin
of most migrants.
b. The developed world has a duty to reduce
agricultural subsidies and other subsidies
that limit development in third world
countries. There is no obligation for
countries to take in every migrant wishing
to migrate. There are limits to resources.
Should every country be third world?
c. Countries are sovereign states, Mexico
continously demands that its sovereignty
be recognized. So, for that matter does
Mugabe's hell hole. That works both ways.
d. Why weren't demonstrators demonstrating
in front of Carlos Slim and the businesses
of other oligarchs in Mexico? The answer
is they would have been arrested.
"Lastly- these hispanic people have more old school ethics of hard work & family than our own homegrown youth. (Youth gangs & violent behavior are big anywhere you find poor people in the inner city)
I believe these realities trump the conclusions the studies you sited might lead the reader to."
Exactly what realities are you talking about. Is your feeling that all native US citizens of color live in a ghetto. How very Sharpton/Jackson of you.
So, Blacks and Native Americans should be tossed to the side even though we are US citizens? What gives illegal migrants the "right" to services that US citizens have? What I see juan 2000 is you are setting of a clash between groups. Am I right? Basically, you are saying we are successful invaders, we are entitled.
The final questions, why aren't you so intent of changing the culture of corruption in Mexico? Why do you demand more rights than Mexico is willing to give? after all, the government of Mexico by failing to provide for its own citizens is forcing one of the largest voluntary migrations in history.
One final word, if I go to Mexico and make the demands you do, are they going to take me seriously or show my butt the door?
Posted by: WVH on May 8, 2007 10:25 PM
They will show you the door, but it will be the door to your jail cell.
Posted by: Interested Observer on May 9, 2007 05:40 AMbehold the trespasser:
a trespasser does not receive dispensation because of his final intent or noble intended cause. he is a trespasser first, AND by his own knowing choice--therefore uninvited, illegal and potentially harmful to the order, laws & fiscal health of a property owner or nation. period. if this legal concept was not important, there would be no fences.
furthermore, a trespasser's mere presence in one's yard does not magically bestow 'rights' on the trespasser to enjoy ANY benefits as a legal property owner or citizen.
the interest groups and immigrant legal industry have twisted our basic logic to equate an illegal alien to anyone else because of some strange forgiveness quality of "hard work" or "wanting family unity" or other law-flouting poppycock. back to basics--GET IN LINE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on May 9, 2007 06:12 AM