April 24, 2007
Seattle City Council Speaks on 520

From the Seattle Times:

A future Highway 520 bridge should have narrow lanes, big lids and as few columns in the water as possible, the Seattle City Council says.

...

Council members voted unanimously for the resolution, after working on it since last fall.

It doesn't specify support for either a four- or six-lane option.

That's nice. Glad they can speak to the aesthetics without getting into such crazy details such as how many cars and buses the new bridge can handle. Even Governor Gregoire - of Viaduct indecision fame - has voiced clear support for the six-lane version. That state mediator to settle the design debate is looking more and more prudent.

UPDATE: And in a fun turn of affairs, the P-I's story claims the Council backed the six-lane option: "City Council backs 6-lane 520 bridge". The Times story seems the more accurate of the two in describing the true nature of the Council's actions, particularly given this bit from that paper: "Councilmember Jean Godden emphasized that the city is not making a choice between four lanes or six."

Wouldn't want to do that, of course.

UPDATE II: Casey Corr isn't optimistic about the issue over at Crosscut.

Posted by Eric Earling at April 24, 2007 07:13 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Given the propensity for civil engineering products of the Northwest to sink, crash or generally fall down, I'd stay away from anything connected with the 520. In fact, the Bailo Proposal is to simply sink it -- immediately -- and then move all the traffic to the "other" floating bridge, a mile down the road, the I-90.

BTW -- has reality finally sunk in to the NW housing market:

Existing home sales plunge in March
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1310ap_home_sales.html

Posted by: John Bailo on April 24, 2007 08:14 AM
2. I don't care how many lanes it has as long as they move the onramps and offramps to the RIGHT side of I-5. While they are add it, they need to do the same with Mercer St. exits.

Those two fixes would go a long way to clearing up the mess in that area.

Here's a prediction: 4 lanes, just as now. 2 of them will be HOV lanes. It will be more than wide enough to handle 6 lanes, but that space will be taken up by large shoulders and bike lanes.


Only in Seattle!

Posted by: Eric on April 24, 2007 08:17 AM
3. Eric, the '6 lane option' is 4 GP, 2 HOV - aka 'general purpose' commuters will get.... better shoulders. For 1000% markup.

Posted by: Al on April 24, 2007 09:20 AM
4. After all the rhetoric during the last two rounds of gas tax increases regarding what an 'emergency' it was to replace 520, I bet it's at least 3 years from now that anything is even started. If (when) RTID fails, it will add another two years to that because there won't be a funding source for it.

The best we can hope for is that a major natural event causes 520 to close or sink, and then Olympia will be forced to do something.

Posted by: Palouse on April 24, 2007 09:59 AM
5. Does it strike anyone as odd that these people, who are normally so concerned about "the children" and everyone's safety, would propose to build an interstate that is by definition less safe than one designed with standard dimension lanes. My guess is that if it is built with narrower lanes than standard, the number of accidents occurring on a daily basis will increase dramatically as well as injuries and deaths. Has anyone heard any summary of arguments that even approached this subject?

if not, I guess I shouldn't be suprised.

Posted by: k2 on April 24, 2007 10:09 AM
6. Here's a few suggestions on funding sources:
1. Eliminate the State sales tax on the bridge - there's an easy 6% savings
2. Do a cost/benefit analysis of the mitgation costs. These likely run into the hundreds of million dollar range, maybe more, and typically is just money thrown at all sorts of feel good projects of dubious environmental benefit.
3. Eliminate the State mandated art set aside. How many people would actually vote to spend their hard earned money on this if given the choice? It is just more liberal warm fuzzy spending of our money.

An easy 10% savings here without having to sacrifice any functionality.

Posted by: RJK on April 24, 2007 10:14 AM
7. According to the P.I . article the City Council supported the six lane option.

Posted by: Cato on April 24, 2007 10:17 AM
8. Anti logic libs should try this...

save $$ by making all lanes Prius wide....less concrete and they keep thosy dastardly Escalades off the freeway

Posted by: righton on April 24, 2007 10:19 AM
9.
Look at this map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&saddr=520,+seattle&daddr=i-90,+seattle&layer=&sll=47.597565,-122.31485&sspn=0.019737,0.040169&ie=UTF8&z=13&om=1

Why do we need two bridges???

It's ridiculous.

At worse, add some lanes to I-90...build on what works and remove what doesn't.

If we get rid of the 520, the neighborhoods will sign on for anything.

We don't need two bridges.

Posted by: John Bailo on April 24, 2007 10:32 AM
10. Sounds like a Seattle "WET" dream to me!!!

Posted by: Pacific Grove Phlash on April 24, 2007 11:14 AM
11. At worse, add some lanes to I-90...build on what works and remove what doesn't.

The problem is that at either end of the bridge, I-90 goes into a long tunnel. One of the tunnels is under a residential neighborhood. Are you proposing that those tunnels be widened as well? If so, are you willing to pony the money for that? Or would you prefer to widen the bridge, but leave the tunnels at either end the same width, which kinda defeats the purpose? With 520, you have 6 lanes up until about the bridge on the eastside, so it makes more sense to widen it to ease traffic.

Also, that attitude of "we don't need any more bridges" isn't a whole lot different than "we don't need any more roads". I don't know where you drive, but I have to come from Renton to downtown Seattle for work, and when 520 is shutdown, it is extremely noticeable on I-90, even on the weekends. What are the alternatives? I can take 405 to 5, or SR900, which isn't really practical as it adds a lot of time. For most folks, driving that way, or around the other way to 522 or taking 405 to 5 in Lynnwood isn't practical either.

520 works, it just needs to be widened when it's replaced.

And as an aside

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/1310ap_home_sales.html

That article is about the national market. Seattle isn't the national market. As long as more people move here than there is available housing, prices will continue to go up.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/realestate/2003652949_webhomesales05.html

Posted by: Mike H on April 24, 2007 11:32 AM
12.
My preference is to do nothing except remove the 520.

It is the source, not the solution, to traffic flow problems through Seattle.

That and get the Sonics to move downstream to Tacoma.

Posted by: John Bailo on April 24, 2007 11:38 AM
13. While I'm thinking about it, while 520 and I-90 are "only a mile apart" (actually, it's more like 4 or 5 on the Eastside), look at where that "mile" (it's more like 2 or 3) is on I-5... at either end of that wonderfully laid out bottleneck in downtown. So you want to shift all that traffic from 520 through two lanes in either direction of I-5 in downtown Seattle? Or would you prefer to send them on surface streets that way? Doing the same in Bellevue isn't much better.

Scrapping the bridge and only going with I-90 is a horrible idea.

Posted by: Mike H on April 24, 2007 11:45 AM
14. Only in lib Seattle would you have a city council try to tell a state Dept. of Transportation how to build a bridge. The current size is inadequate & backed up at all hours of the day; at least 6 lanes & preferably 8 would go a long way toward alleviating the back ups but, of course, the interchanges & entrance/exits all need to be improved & enlarged.

A license surcharge could be used to pay for the bridge without having to go to the bother of tolls except for those who don't pay the surcharge. The surcharge could be graduated so that those in the immediate counties pay more than those further away. The state would know with greater accuracy how much money would be available every year to pay the bonds issued to fund the bridge.

Posted by: Clean House on April 24, 2007 11:56 AM
15. John #12 - The solution to traffic flow problems must either entail increasing capacity with more lanes, or decreasing demand by reducing driving. To expect a decreasing amount of driving in a growing metropolis like Seattle is absurd. We need more roads. Especially in a geograpic region like Seattle, riddled with lakes and canals, we need more bridges. We pretend to be a world class city, but a bridge with 2 lanes in each direction connecting Seattle and the eastside over a huge lake just will not cut it in 2007.

I'm having a hard time understanding just what the local governments are doing for us. They seem to have abandoned the idea of providing for the common good. Transportation - ride your damn bike, and pay through the nose for laughable amatuers to dream a monorail. Crime - pay millions to WTO rioters. Education - if the kids can't pass the standardized tests, eliminate them.

We are becoming a laughing stock. We should throw all the Seattle and King Co. legislators out forthwith, before there is nothing left here but single, childless, bike riding baristas and grunge musicians. Not that I have anything against such persons, but you can only ignore us differently lifestyled people (married, working, commuting, child rearing, tax paying, law abiding) for so long. I hope we all figure this out, move to Boise, and leave the others here to sell lattes to each other for a year or so until the economy collapses and Seattle reverts to the trees and fish.

Posted by: Steven Adler on April 24, 2007 12:00 PM
16. Just goes to show you that the council is more concerned with property values than fixing problems faced by the city and those who travel to it. It's a shame really, but what do you expect from a population who's responsible for electing mindless, selfish, drones. Representitive, truely.

Posted by: Mikey on April 24, 2007 01:37 PM
17. Since 1963, how many days or hours has the 520 bridge been closed because of earthquakes???

Posted by: russell Amick on April 24, 2007 02:17 PM
18. Since 1963, how many days or hours has the 520 bridge been closed because of earthquakes???

Posted by: russell Amick on April 24, 2007 02:24 PM
19. Lets just have everybody choose what side of the lake they want to live on. Sink the bridges and call it good. I choose the east side myself.

Posted by: Jeffro on April 24, 2007 02:32 PM
20.
Steven Adler #12

Steve,

I want us to invert the paradigm. I don't see Seattle as a hub (or urb), but as just yet another "suburb" of the Puget Sound.

As such we should do every thing to "normalize" it to the rest of the region. That means pulling out the Sonics and now automatically building over-capacity into its roadways.

According to a recent Seattle PI podcast, Puget Sound actually has more roadway per capital than 50 percent of other cities.

The reason for the traffic problems are not resources -- but poor and stupid uses of resources. I lay that blame squarely at the inadequacies of the public policy makers.

Posted by: John Bailo on April 24, 2007 02:58 PM
21. The mediator must file a progress report this August, then a final "project impact plan" to the governor and state legislators by Dec. 1, 2008 -- an indication these debates could drag for another 1-½ years.

Translation: no politician, especially Gregoire, wants to decide a damn thing on 520 prior to the 2008 election.

Posted by: Palouse on April 24, 2007 03:01 PM
22. I never thought the present City Council to have been demeaned by the demanding, unfeeling, numerically-scored process of any civil engineering curriculum. This does not prevent its members, apparently, from arrogantly assuming the authority of such engineers, without the bother of that education.

Lush life, comrades, bullshitting your way through life without a care, but what's this about narrow lanes? Most highways are partly constructed with Federal Aid money, and such largess comes with some insensitive strings attached to design standards, such as minimum lane widths. Even Patty Murray will have a hard time posing as our regal Dispenser of the Federal Slush Fund, if the Feds unfeelingly enforce those standards.

Posted by: Hank Bradley on April 24, 2007 03:38 PM
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