1.
Here's my transportation plan:

Give me a wrecking ball and a moving crew.

I'll tear down the viaduct.
Get rid of the 520 bridge.
Move the Sonics to the Tacoma Dome.

I'd charge...oh, about 10 million for that.

A cost savings to the taxpayer of 15B plus...

Posted by: John Bailo on April 19, 2007 08:24 AM

2. Ten years of reckless spending. This is a state wide problem. We need more roads to move traffic not HOV lanes, Bike lanes, Hot lanes Rail or bus exits. The longer they keep traffic to a stand still the hope the voter will vote for anything they put on the ballot.
The project on 167 called Hot Lanes is a fine example. Instead of opening up the HOV for all use because of lack of usage, there spending 14 million plus to put a toll lanes on 167. The package to the voters in November should fail.
VOTE NO on all TAX INCREASES

Posted by: George on April 19, 2007 09:00 AM

3.

The $16 billion figure for the package excludes financing costs and inflation, which boost the total to more than $31 billion over a 20-year construction period, and payments on bond debt beyond that.

150% cost overrun, $40 billion.
Financing the overrun $35 billion.

True final cost around $75 billion.

FUGGITABOUTIT

Posted by: JCM on April 19, 2007 09:19 AM

4. The objective is to spend our money, not fix the problems. If the problems were fixed, they (ST and KCC) would have nothing to do. Perish the thought!

Posted by: Fed Up on April 19, 2007 09:21 AM

5. I guess all the polling that shows massive support for sound transit and light rail as well as the package as a whole is wrong huh. Lawmakers posture all the time, the fact is that people want to invest in transit and roads with the emphasis on transit. Transit works in many US cities and all across the world. The is no reason to think that it can't work here. You, and other republicans, can refuse to support anything because you might have to, oh my god, pay for it. The result will be that we will move forward and you will be left out.

I say go for, your caucus currently fits in the coat room, care to try for the janitor's closet.

Posted by: Giffy on April 19, 2007 09:52 AM

6. Fed Up at #4. You are correct. The mass transit folks are only interested in things, not solutions. More HOV lanes, more light rail lines, more HOT lanes. All of these are things they can point to and say "see we have done things". However, these things don't fix the problems and cost BILLIONS!. Light rail will never come close to even making a dent in congestion. If/when completed, no one will even notice a difference in traffic congestion as 95% of commuters can't use them because the lines don't go where commuters need to go.

Posted by: rjk on April 19, 2007 09:54 AM

7. 6 is dead on.

rail usually does not go where most practically used in terms of routes & adaptability. it's serving a minority with a majority of funds. spend on what the majority uses to benefit/move the most people EFFECTIVELY per dollar per mile. busses are more adaptable to schedules & use less infrastr.

and many people use their cars for multiple daily/weekly combined trips/flexibility which trains can't provide & busses are not easy to accomodate. public transportation has a place, but should nto be slected while wearing blinders as to what people are ACTUALLY doing to be effective in their lives.

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on April 19, 2007 10:16 AM

8. The State, Counties and Cities are on a taxing spree. Wait until November ballot.

Posted by: George on April 19, 2007 10:53 AM

9. The Dem.'s running the show in Olympia think voters in the Puget Sound area are idiots the way they've voted to tax themselves. Let's make sure in November we don't prove them right again.

Posted by: disgusted on April 19, 2007 11:25 AM

10. Giffy;

Hey dumbass. As usual you stupid leftist pinhead, you don't get it. We want a fix just as much as anyone else. WE JUST WANT WHAT WE PAID FOR AND WHAT THEY TOLD US WE WERE GETTING AS WELL AS SOMETHING THAT WORKS!!!!

You might have money to flush down a toilet but most of us don't. So much for your democrats being the party of the average guy. What a lie. And your the stupid fool that falls for it, never question them just open up the wallet and give them what they want.

Now go away, you bother me kid.

Posted by: REBEL on April 19, 2007 11:48 AM

11. Private industry will fix the local transportation problem in Seattle well before our local tax-loving politicians come up with anything workable.

Save your taxes and invest in public companies that supply Honda and Toyota with parts as well as well as some well placed great big retailers that can create nationwide networks to supply the fuel.

The dems in Washington remind me of some middle eastern states. Thy whine and complain about how evil Americans are and all they want is oil - but its all pretense. They see the the handwriting on the wall.

The truth is that even they are smart enough to see that private industry is going to circumvent the current oil problem through alternate fuels and smaller personal vehicles. Just as the mid-east is going to see their once value oil drop in value, the value of the mast transit is going to drop like a stone.

Grab the power while you can local liberals. The power of the free market is about to take you off at the knees, and the power shift begins in years not decades.

Posted by: johnny on April 19, 2007 12:17 PM

12. What are you smoking Johnny?
Smaller cars and alternative fuels are drop in the bucket type fixes....its bigger than that.

Posted by: waldo on April 19, 2007 12:37 PM

13. As long as the ST boondoggle is coupled with the roads package, there will be two NO votes out of our household.

And where's the rest of the money for 520 going to come from? What a joke. Create a funding source that FINISHES projects.

Posted by: Palouse on April 19, 2007 01:17 PM

14. Hate to burst your bubble, Palouse, but it's the roads piece that's dragging down the package. Every poll taken has shown broad support for Sound Transit 2, specifically extending light rail East, South and North. The only reason RTID is tied to ST2 is because the road proponents knew that the only chance in hell they had of passing a big road package was by ST expansion contingent on voters also accepting the roads package.

This is not to say there isn't a bunch of road projects with broad, consensus support. Everyone agrees that something needs to be done replace the 520 bridge and there's also consensus support for extending SR 167 to the Port of Tacoma and even many of the I-405 and SR 167 projects. But the RTID board couldn't contain itself and kept adding pork, to the point that it will probably tank the whole thing.

Posted by: Bill L. on April 19, 2007 02:17 PM

15. Its a hell no in my book too! And my whole family!

They have been handing out 16k and 18k raises to themselves, trips all over the world paid for by us, and hiring new people at record salaries. Not a cut in government in site, what custs do they expect us to make to cover this boondoggle.

Posted by: GS on April 19, 2007 02:50 PM

16. I keep pounding away on this, but what people need to do is read the information that the APA, PSRC etc publish for "internal consumption." It is available and in it you will find such gems as "rail allows greater control over where people choose to live and work." The thing that jumps out at me when I am reading this stuff is how their definition of choose and mine diverge. What they mean by the statement above is "rail allows us to exert greater control over where people live and work."

Posted by: JDH on April 19, 2007 05:41 PM

17. I can't verify it, but while I was in Portland last week, I listened to a radio interview with an economist. The topic was social engineering (something that city planners everywhere love). In the course of the conversation, it was mentioned that public transit ridership in Portland is BELOW what it was before the MAX light rail system was put in.

Posted by: Mark on April 19, 2007 10:07 PM

18. #14 - I don't know who was polled for those opinions, but it certainly wasn't anyone in my neck of the woods, which won't benefit a dime from more rail. But in any case, if the rails are so popular then let them stand on their own in a vote, with an unbiased estimate of the costs and ridership. Same with the roads package.

I know this - there's a heck of a lot more people using the roads who want congestion relief, of which the rails will provide none. We'll find that out soon enough when the first of the train boondoggles becomes operational.

Posted by: Palouse on April 20, 2007 07:54 AM

19. Mark @ 17,
Portland's population has greatly increased since MAX was put in. It's population is rising at least as fat as Seattle's. Intel seems to be hiring lots of people and it's conveniently located at the end of a MAX line. I know lots of people who ride the MAX to & from work M-F.

Posted by: Cato on April 20, 2007 09:40 AM

20. Oops, should read:
It's population is rising at least as fast as Seattle's

Posted by: Cato on April 20, 2007 09:47 AM

21. Well Cato at #19, since you like to throw the correlation phrase around. Right back at you.

Posted by: Palouse on April 20, 2007 11:01 AM

22. Sure, Palouse. Notice how traffic in Portland is nowhere near as bad as it is here. =)

They actually figured out that sending mass transit to the city's largest employer was a good idea. Portland also limited it's growth (until Measure 37 passed) driving it's population inwards to the city center. Now the city center is starting to look a lot like Belltown (without the meth junkies). Portland is also a very easy city to walk around in.

Go to Louisville, Ky if you want to see horrible urban planning, lots of roads, lots of suburbs, minimal downtown core. You can't get anywhere without a car. Consequently they have their fair share of traffic issues.

Posted by: Cato on April 20, 2007 11:35 AM

23. All Portland did was outsource its suburbs to Vancouver. It didn't eliminate them.

Posted by: Palouse on April 20, 2007 12:04 PM

24. Cato,

You can't seriously think that Portland traffic is better than Seattle's. I go there every week. I'm in it, and believe me, it's AT LEAST as congested as Seattle, in every direction. Sure, the Pearl district looks more like Belltown, including the lack of children. Lots of singles.
Saying that you know lots of people who ride light rail is just like the NY Times reporter who said, after hearing that Richard Nixon beat George McGovern in a landslide in 1972, "how can that be possible? I don't know a single person who voted for him!"

Posted by: Mark on April 20, 2007 03:26 PM

25. Why is this being called a $16 billion bill?
Read chapter 5, it's $134 billion for the 3 county area orgy of money called the RTID/RTC;

http://www.psrtc.wa.gov/RTC%20-%20DRAFT%20REPORT%20Nov%2015,%202006.pdf

Posted by: 4woodenboats on April 23, 2007 04:22 PM

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